Projection

[Our abuse recovery guide]

One mechanism I struggle to make sense of is that of projection. I only found out about this recently, as my BPD has suddenly started "using" it much more. But then, thinking about it, I could recognise few other times he used it in the past:

1) First time few years back, it was a moment in which we had a good relationship. Suddenly one day I refused to do exactly what he wanted me to do about something, and he started shouting that I had no empathy for others and had always only cared for myself. Now, not my place to judge myself, and I surely have thousands of flaws, but lack of empathy surely isn't one, considering I suffered like hell throughout the years simply knowing what made HIM suffer and hearing it. On the contrary, I am not saying he lacks empathy in general, but in certain situations he seems to only care about himself. So, this seemed really odd at the time, but didn't even suspect he had mental disease at that point, simply because I was ignorant.

2) More recently, he suddenly started saying that one of our relatives has a mental health disorder and had been diagnosed but will not take drugs. This is literally his description (while the person he's talking about had a spout of depression years ago) and he knows I know it, but still he says it...

3)  He also keeps accusing me of being interested in inheritance only, which is what he is absolutely obsessed about, while I refused to talk about it while parents are alive.

What I don't understand is how does this work and why? Sometimes, it almost seems to me like he is saying things about himself so that we "punish" him as he thinks he deserves. To explain myself better, one day he kept banging on and on about the fact that menatl health does not excuse abusing behavior, and he was talkign about someone else, but it almost seemed to me like he was saying "I cannot tell you this, but please drop me from your life like I am telling you I would do with someone else behaving like this".
But this is probably me trying to see something "good" in anything he does, and I know both that the explanations of projection are far more complex and that all the rest of his behavior goes against this.

What do you all think, did you have similar experiences and what did you make out of them?

[Strawberry29]

One mechanism I struggle to make sense of is that of projection. I only found out about this recently, as my BPD has suddenly started "using" it much more. But then, thinking about it, I could recognise few other times he used it in the past:

1) First time few years back, it was a moment in which we had a good relationship. Suddenly one day I refused to do exactly what he wanted me to do about something, and he started shouting that I had no empathy for others and had always only cared for myself. Now, not my place to judge myself, and I surely have thousands of flaws, but lack of empathy surely isn't one, considering I suffered like hell throughout the years simply knowing what made HIM suffer and hearing it. On the contrary, I am not saying he lacks empathy in general, but in certain situations he seems to only care about himself. So, this seemed really odd at the time, but didn't even suspect he had mental disease at that point, simply because I was ignorant.

2) More recently, he suddenly started saying that one of our relatives has a mental health disorder and had been diagnosed but will not take drugs. This is literally his description (while the person he's talking about had a spout of depression years ago) and he knows I know it, but still he says it...

3)  He also keeps accusing me of being interested in inheritance only, which is what he is absolutely obsessed about, while I refused to talk about it while parents are alive.

What I don't understand is how does this work and why? Sometimes, it almost seems to me like he is saying things about himself so that we "punish" him as he thinks he deserves. To explain myself better, one day he kept banging on and on about the fact that menatl health does not excuse abusing behavior, and he was talkign about someone else, but it almost seemed to me like he was saying "I cannot tell you this, but please drop me from your life like I am telling you I would do with someone else behaving like this".
But this is probably me trying to see something "good" in anything he does, and I know both that the explanations of projection are far more complex and that all the rest of his behavior goes against this.

What do you all think, did you have similar experiences and what did you make out of them?

[CC43]

Strawberry, I have observed projection many times in my stepdaughter who has been diagnosed with BPD.  I noticed it before I had learned about this condition.  My stepdaughter is in her mid-20s, and her condition has disrupted her life enough that she hasn't hit typical adult milestones like graduating, holding a job, having a romantic relationship, paying bills, paying taxes or signing a lease.  It's clear that she is very preoccupied about lagging behind peers and siblings, to the point that she is ashamed and embarrassed.  This preoccupation will often manifest as "projection."  Examples are her accusations that family members treat her like a child--telling her what to do, being condescending, talking down to her, treating her like she's incapable, etc.  She will launch into passionate tirades about the purported childish and disrespectful treatment, which are often in response to an offer of help!  Nevertheless, because of her condition, she continues to behave like a child in many ways, given her petulance and tantrums, her dependency, her impatience, her extreme selfishness, and her general lack of preparedness/self-sufficiency.

I think the projection happens for a number of reasons.  First, the person with BPD is probably ruminating about their issues and shortcomings in excess.  Moreover, they are probably pained by these pervasive negative thoughts.  They see the world through a lens distorted by these negative thoughts and feelings.  Because they can't handle the feelings and can't take any responsibility for making changes, they find someone else to blame, often a family member.  They try to rid themselves of the bad feelings and helplessness by projecting them onto someone else!

Other examples of projection by stepdaughter are:  accusing me of being racist, accusing a sibling of being narcissistic, accusing a sibling of inventing trauma to garner parental attention, and accusing friends of bullying.  She accused her mother of "assault," when what really happened is my stepdaughter became violent/suicidal when she didn't get what she wanted, and her mom called an ambulance.  In each of these accusations, she warped fact patterns beyond recognition (usually, conveniently leaving out the details about how she started a fight/argument).  And she accuses everyone of treating her like a child--it's a recurring theme.

I'm writing this in the hopes that you might recognize forms of projection, and realize that you aren't at fault.  It doesn't make sense to try to defend yourself or challenge these emotional accusations, because the pwBPD isn't coming from a place of logic.  I think the pwBPD is lashing out because she can't handle the emotions around what's preoccupying her at the moment.

[Mommydoc]

People with BPD often project intense emotions onto others, driven by difficulties in regulating their emotions and a fear of abandonment. Personally, I initially struggled to grasp the concept of projection, finding it challenging when my sister accused me of things that didn't align with my self-perception. Once aware of projection, it became less distressing. Maintaining distance, setting clear boundaries, and prioritizing self-needs are crucial. Learning not to JADE (justify, argue, defend, or explain) is difficult but essential in handling constant projections.  Professional support through therapy helped me recognize and accept my sister as she is, and to learn to self manage when she projects her toxic emotions on me. We can’t change them but we can change how we process and respond.

[kells76]

Hi Strawberry;

Just adding a bit to the good discussion already going. Not sure if you've seen it yet; we have a workshop on projection over in our Psychology Q&A library. I appreciated the brief description of projection as:

a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others.  Projection is denying one's own unpleasant traits, behaviors, or feelings by attributing them, often in an accusing way,  to someone else.

What do you think -- does that match with your experience?

[Pilpel]

I would say a big part of what makes the NPD in my life difficult to be with is that she makes me feel objectified.  Like I am there to fulfill some predetermined role in her life, rather than an individual with separate wants and needs and preferences from her. Mentally she is trying to maintain a false reality. And in that false  reality I’m more like a puppet.  I’m there to listen to her talk.  Not to be listened to.  I’m there to watch her kids for a week when she needs a brew.  But she rarely regards my kids. But in her false reality, regardless of what I say, she believes  I am eager to get in her good graces and I must feel lucky for a chance to serve her.  So when she projects her own negative motivations on to me, it’s not like it came out of nowhere. It’s like shes sitting in the same room as me, but she  is living in an alternate false reality.  And she was never not living in that false reality.  She was never interacting with the real me that is  Pilpel the whole time.  She was interacting with imaginary Pilpel.  So she can easily project her own negative motivation on to me without thinking twice. 

[Methuen]

I have a snapshot memory of my mom sneering at me and saying “you are so sensitive “ in a condescending derogatory tone. 

It was such a bizarre comment at the time it stopped me in my tracks.  I was speechless, because I instantly recognized she was describing herself, despite spitting the words at me. 

Now I recognize it as projection.  Back then, I had never heard of projection or BPD.  It was just another crazy moment.

I think of this as deep dark psychological stuff.  They deny the things and feelings about themselves they “can’t handle” (emotionally), but as these feelings continue to build up pressure inside them, the strategy they use to get rid of these feelings when the pressure gets too intense is to dump them (project them) or boomerang them onto someone else. Verbal vomit so to speak. Then they feel better.  That they hurt us (their loved one) doesn’t matter, as they do whatever they need to to unload their bad feelings to feel better themselves.  That’s their narcissism at work.

When my mom said this to me years ago it bothered me a lot because I couldn’t understand why/how she could accuse me of her very problem. It didn’t make sense.I was approaching it rationally.  My mom’s brain is emotional- not rational.  Now that I have learned some things about BPD ( and projection), I don’t take these things personally anymore. 

Once they project, it’s a good time to exit the situation in my opinion, and give them time to self-soothe.  Never JADE as this will only escalate. Arguing or defending will just blow everything up. Just quietly and calmly exit and say something like “we can meet again when everyone is feeling better “.

[Notwendy]

I would say a big part of what makes the NPD in my life difficult to be with is that she makes me feel objectified.  Like I am there to fulfill some predetermined role in her life, rather than an individual with separate wants and needs and preferences from her. Mentally she is trying to maintain a false reality. And in that false  reality I’m more like a puppet.  I’m there to listen to her talk.  Not to be listened to.  I’m there to watch her kids for a week when she needs a brew.  But she rarely regards my kids. But in her false reality, regardless of what I say, she believes  I am eager to get in her good graces and I must feel lucky for a chance to serve her.  So when she projects her own negative motivations on to me, it’s not like it came out of nowhere. It’s like shes sitting in the same room as me, but she  is living in an alternate false reality.  And she was never not living in that false reality.  She was never interacting with the real me that is  Pilpel the whole time.  She was interacting with imaginary Pilpel.  So she can easily project her own negative motivation on to me without thinking twice. 

This is spot on.

My BPD mother does not see "me". She sees what she projects as "me" and yes, I am there to serve her needs like a dutiful puppet.

I recall feeling this odd situation in my later teens but not knowing what it was. I was at a friend's house and my friend was having an argument with her parents. They didn't like her boyfriend. I didn't think much of him either. I felt sorry for the parents- I could see how upset they were. When I came home I tried to tell my parents about what happened. They looked back at me with blank stares as if I was from another world. I don't know if they could connect with how I was feeling. Maybe the idea that I was a separate person with my own experiences? It remember it because it seemed so odd.

Going off to college required some travel. As a teen, I would not be able to manage it all on my own. I needed an airplane ticket, a car rental (too young to rent a car) and had to move into the dorms. I assumed my parents would make the plans to take me. The time to college got sooner and no discussion from my parents so I asked them- when are you taking me to college? The same sort of blank look and a curious "oh?" and I said - I need to start college, we need to make plans. They did after that- they did get me there.

I wondered- if it doesn't pertain to BPD mother, is it even in her consciousness? If she sees me through her projections, then events like me relating a story about someone else, or needing an airplane ticket- that isn't in her thinking. It must just be a surprise to her if I bring something up - and so the blank stare?

These are some early memories of noticing a sort of disconnect in my mother. I think my BPD mother sees people through her projections and it influences her perception of people.

[So Stressed]

This has been a very helpful thread to read.  I have recognized BPD in my family late in life, and it has hit me hard. We were so focused on the alcoholic father, that the BPD mother seemed to just not get noticed. We felt sorry for her because Dad was the cause of all her problems (and outbursts), or so she said.  But, then, Dad got sober and later passed away and there were still rages and outbursts.  After Dad passed away, I got to be her scapegoat until she met another man, moved in with him, and his children became her scapegoats, but then he passed away, and the rages and outbursts continued and I got to be the scapegoat again.

She has done so much damage to our family and the step family.  I think they are glad to be rid of her. She turned my only sibling and living relative against me and I don't even know how that happened, except that I am now wondering if my sibling also has BPD. I don't live nearby and don't see a lot of my sibling except on holidays and annual visits, so I didn't really know them all that well, but in the last 6 or 7 years, I have seen several rages by my sibling.

As soon as I started to realize that there was something wrong with my mother's mental health, I started therapy because I didn't know how to deal with her.  The therapist suggested that the problem could be BPD, and I immediately read 3 or 4 books on the topic, and I do think that is the problem.  I wish I had known more before and maybe I would have been able to maneuver through the mine fields a bit better.  But, maybe not.  I was so shocked by some of the behaviors that occurred that I didn't do or say much.  Tonight, was the first time I read about Learning not to JADE (justify, argue, defend, or explain).  Isn't that just exactly what we want to do when we are under attack?  To defend ourselves or our position?  But, I learned a long time ago if I give out too much information about myself, my thoughts, or my feelings, it gets used against me.  And, even trying to explain or defend myself when being accused of things that are not true, it is just futile. Why bother?  It either gets used against me or it is just a waste of time because it will get turned around and twisted into something I didn't say.

Lately, I have lost a lot of confidence, as my family has projected a lot of stuff on me. I know in my heart that what they have said is projection of their own feelings about themselves onto me. But, sometimes, I question myself and wonder if I am the problem, as they say. My therapist says, No. My friends say, No. I went to alanon for 30 years and my peers in that group also say no.  I know that I am not perfect, but I really don't think that I am the problem, but I sometimes think that growing up with an alcoholic father, a BPD mother, possibly a BPD sibling, my behaviors have not always been perfect...I didn't learn how to communicate or set boundaries or effectively express anger until I spent a long time in alanon. When there is conflict in my family, I am not the one who is raging. I usually walk away from the conflict and try to let calmer voices on a different day prevail.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if I had known more about BPD, maybe we could have avoided some of the drama and my family would be talking.

[Strawberry29]

Thanks, all, the discussion this raised is extremely helpful! First of all, thanks kells, I did check that and that's when I started learning about projection and recognising all these things. I suppose my problem with the description is that I am an extremely rational person, in the sense that I need to explain everything through rational lenses, and rationally this idea of projecting our bad traits on others does not make sense to me. But by now I know that whenever talkign about BPD's behavior, rationality should be the last thing on earth I resort to...

So thanks for the description, I can definitely recognise it, and thanks for all the examples and experiences. It really does make me feel like I am not alone... In particular, CC, every single example of projection your stepdaughter used, has been done by my sibling as well. Literally EVERY SINGLE ONE. In particular, the assault in situations where he assaulted someone for example (in his case not himself).
Methuen, SoStressed, Mommydoc, yes, I am also learning not to JADE now. Difficulty for me is at the moment my relationship with my brother is solely made of accusations and bullying, so not JADEing does not mean leaving for a while and coming back, but not having any interaction with him (as every single time we "talk" he just attacks me non-stop).

Also interesting what pilpel ad notwendy bring up. I never thoguht about it as carefully, but I also had those moments when he had those sort of empty looks when I mentioned something to him and he seemed not to have any idea about the existence of someone else aside from him. And every single person out there is him, in some way. So he tends to defend random strangers because they remind him of himself for whatever reason, and attack continuosuly those that love him.