uBPD ex has come back but resumed push pull pattern

[Depression = 72% of members]

A not-so-brief summary of the short and wild relationship…

Upfront, my ex is undiagnosed but I have her pinned as the “covert borderline” as vaknin describes to some degree. “High functioning” and a “Love addict” in the sense of a true romantic fantasizing about ideal love, the perfect marriage…etc.

No self harm, no actual rage outbursts directed at me during the relationship. Healthy coping mechanisms. Altruism, volunteering for everything. Compulsive people pleasing, active in the hometown community type of mom. Low Bordem threshold. Has to keep busy, no drug or alcohol abuse. Neat Freak. But definitely impulsive. Also self aware and often doubts or worries about her decisions. Two steps forward one step back. Indecisive and self doubting. Also has the strong independent do it yourself mentality. Always said she wanted a man but didn’t need a man.

We met one year ago right after new years. Instant connection, talked a ton on FaceTime. She opened up about her childhood trauma and life experiences, warned me that she “runs” from relationships. And although she was divorced twice, I viewed the  marriages as a sign of ability to commit. Her first husband developed a mental illness and she had to leave. So I didn’t fault her for that one. The second marriage was 8 years. She just says she “settled” and regretted it.

She had been divorced for a year and a half, built her dream home, and had just moved in 2 months before meeting me. She has 4 children, and told me she’s never getting married again and done having kids.

I’m 38. My previous ex had 3 kids and I essentially raised the youngest from age 7 to 17, so I have parenting experience and I actually want kids. Family gives me a sense of purpose, tho I was worried I wouldn’t fit into this new dynamic, or the children wouldn’t accept me.

Her oldest is a teenage boy and I told her it would be tough on him at first but I’ve been thru it before, we had a good casual friendship. But her 3 little girls accepted me instantly and stole my heart.

4 months in, I came over and half her walk in closet was empty and she announced it was mine. I was honestly taken back, but she has shared custody and no kids around every other week, so I was over there a lot. And always dragging a bag for the weekends.

About this time I made a comment about women who hyphenate their last names instead of taking the husbands last name and she got all upset, “well I have the same last name as my kids. So that’s probably how I would do it”…

I said, “but you told me ur never getting married again”… she replied “well what if we get married”? At the time I was not expecting to hear this, and it was surprising. She walked away from her divorce with 7 figures, quite a sum of money. I’m far from broke but her net worth is multiples of mine. I was shocked that a woman in her position would even risk getting married again… but I was nevertheless touched.

Honestly the first gf I would have ever considered marrying. Approaching 40, I found the whole scenario to be a dream come true. The girl of my dreams, beautiful kids, the family life in a beautiful home on 24 acres in the countryside.

She wasn’t divorced for very long and I was the first bf she introduced to her kids. And actually brought into the home. She would tell the kids that when I “move in” things will be like this and things will be like that, and I’ll be the “man of the house”…

My point being she values her kids above all else, and she shared her “fantasy” if u will, with them as much as me, so I don’t think she was trying to be manipulative, I think she believed it 100%.


So about month 4-5 she did a lot of future talk about “can’t wait for me to move in one day”. In my mind I thought, sure maybe, years down the road. Now I don’t think that’s where her mind was at the time. After expressing how bad she wanted me to live there she started prefacing it with “we would have to be married before u moved in” to set an example for the kids.

As early as I thought this discussion was, I didn’t have a problem with it, I did want to live together as husband and wife one day.

At five months we had our first real argument, she pulled-back and then said “we’re done”. I was shocked but I have so much respect for a mother with kids, i just said okay I’m not going to argue with u. I was devastated.

She began communicating 3 days later, then visited, then offered me friendship. I was confused and immediately said no. She was upset. She tried a few more times over text, I declined.

After 2-3 weeks, she reached out and I said I would take her on a date but I wouldn’t be her friend. We spent a day in the park, and poof*, back together.

It didn’t feel like a real break up tho I accepted it. It felt much more like a test. She also said she was hurt by “how little I fought for her” which was a red flag for me.

The next two months we spent a lot of time together, whole weeks just us at her place, essentially playing house, and simulating what it would be like. Maybe this wasn’t smart, maybe this was too fast, but I thought it was good to know if we could cohabitate long term before jumping into a marriage.

We seldom had disagreements. We were always able to discuss and resolve issues in person. I noticed texting was always counterproductive to resolving conflicts, and phone could be problematic but in person we could always solve an issue.

In the summer we went to kids ball games, the fair, a beach resort getaway, concerts... we had a blast.

In the late summer, she had a death in the family and told me she had to go back home to NYC. I’ve never been, and she didn’t want to go alone, so we booked 5 days and drove out. The drive bonded us even more. And I was excited to see where she grew up.

We went to NYC abs I experienced her Albanian heritage deeply. They served whiskey every day all day during the preparation for the services, then more whiskey the day of, then more alcohol at dinner. I took the attitude of “when in rome” and joined in, I was enjoying NYC. But she got upset with how much I drank the last evening in the city.

This came back home with us. This sparked the spiral of devaluation over the next week. After a Friday night out, we got home, and she seemed upset. We went to bed without saying much. The next morning she was upset with how “I was”, that I “went to bed mad”. She cancelled our plans for the evening.

I was upset with her canceling. We tried to discuss the issue later on FaceTime and it went south. The next few days we argued about many imbalances in the relationship, and couldn’t see eye to eye on anything but it was never toxic screaming, swearing, or insults. It was respectful and she was very upset.

I refrained from matching her energy when she got worked up, but she continued minimizing my contributions. Our relationship was very one-sided, in terms of who was putting in effort. Understandably, I know she has kids to look after and I would be up to me to accommodate around this schedule, none-the less I was upset to see my efforts minimized. When I began listing all the things I do for her, she crashed. Tears, then the break up.

After dropping my clothes off in trash bags, she face timed me the next day to “see how I was doing”. I was like “u can’t seriously be FaceTiming me if we’re broken up”.

She didn’t pitch friendship this time but we stayed in a grey area arguing about the issues for weeks. Then me begging for us to work it out. She said no. After two months I went no contact. I said goodbye.

30 days to the day, she text me. Random “I need ur help with something” bs. Then I heard nothing.

A couple weeks later I got the “I miss talking to you” text. We met up for lunch. This was 4 months post-break up. We discussed our separate lives, what we’ve been up to.

She was slightly emotional as I left.

A week or two later we begin texting again. We meet up for drinks and lots is said about the relationship. The “issues”. She then pitches friendship again. I said no that’s impossible at this point. She got upset. Said “I miss my best friend”.

We still keep texting and a few calls. I said I can’t do friendship but if she’s interested in “fixing” what she broke, we can sit down and agree to work on it. She was adamant about friendship.

I kind of ignore the friendship proposition and just continue talking to her but she is resistant to acknowledge she wants to fix things yet all we discuss is the break up. She then says she “can’t be with anyone”, has to heal... okay.

Jan 1st I said we should part ways, since it’s a new year and we both want different things. She was very upset over text, I seriously didn’t expect her to be. I explained we don’t want the same things and told her to not contact me any more.

One week later she texts me that she was “heartbroken” for what I’ve done, and that I was “too blind to see” that she was giving me a path back to fixing things with her but she wanted to go “slow”.

We talk on the phone for the next two days, she says she was just getting comfortable talking to me again, and I ruined it. And I pushed her, and hurt her all over again.

I had just signed in a new condo and moved. After talking on the phone I said she could pop in to see my new place. I didn’t think she would come over but she was running errands and popped in for 10 mins. She was nice. She looked around the place, said “well this is interesting” and we said good bye.

She text me a bit more that day, and  now nothing.

So I know I haven’t heard the last from her but I have really pulled back on me initiating conversation at this point.

After visiting, it’s now been a week and I haven’t heard from her. This is the approach avoidance cycle that is so maddening. I know she is likely processing the whole situation and experiencing the twin anxieties and all that... but it’s tormenting sitting in the grey area wondering how long the limbo can last.

Essentially I am moving on in my own direction but I do wish we could reconcile, and have a normal relationship that isn’t overshadowed by a storybook fantasy, but I also realize it’s the fantasy she was in love with... I think.

What I’ve learned about the approach avoidance is that if I pursue, it triggers the avoidance, any amount of me moving towards her emotionally.

When I turn and leave, she pulls me back, then reestablishes her hesitancy or disinterest to reconcile.

I feel like all I can do is stand still and wait for her to approach me then mirror her at her own pace or I will trigger engulfment anxiety.

Very curious to hear others thoughts. On one hand it seems she is interested in reconciliation as she pursues me when I say goodbye, along with visiting my place. But this is BPD so I’m never sure about anything.

I’ve read many BPD horror stories and I feel blessed that the good part was actually good and the bad part has bad painful but not toxic. No volatile language, no hurtful words. This woman isn’t perfect but she has never tried to hurt me with words, or misbehavior even. Never tried to make me jealous, didn’t cheat, didn’t instantly move on to a new relationship.

If any BPD relationship is salvageable I feel like this one is. We’ve been split for 5 months but back in the push pull cycle for 6 weeks.

Interested in opinions on if this is worth working on, and also any advice for handling the push pull compulsion. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[The_Lone_Pine]

A not-so-brief summary of the short and wild relationship…

Upfront, my ex is undiagnosed but I have her pinned as the “covert borderline” as vaknin describes to some degree. “High functioning” and a “Love addict” in the sense of a true romantic fantasizing about ideal love, the perfect marriage…etc.

No self harm, no actual rage outbursts directed at me during the relationship. Healthy coping mechanisms. Altruism, volunteering for everything. Compulsive people pleasing, active in the hometown community type of mom. Low Bordem threshold. Has to keep busy, no drug or alcohol abuse. Neat Freak. But definitely impulsive. Also self aware and often doubts or worries about her decisions. Two steps forward one step back. Indecisive and self doubting. Also has the strong independent do it yourself mentality. Always said she wanted a man but didn’t need a man.

We met one year ago right after new years. Instant connection, talked a ton on FaceTime. She opened up about her childhood trauma and life experiences, warned me that she “runs” from relationships. And although she was divorced twice, I viewed the  marriages as a sign of ability to commit. Her first husband developed a mental illness and she had to leave. So I didn’t fault her for that one. The second marriage was 8 years. She just says she “settled” and regretted it.

She had been divorced for a year and a half, built her dream home, and had just moved in 2 months before meeting me. She has 4 children, and told me she’s never getting married again and done having kids.

I’m 38. My previous ex had 3 kids and I essentially raised the youngest from age 7 to 17, so I have parenting experience and I actually want kids. Family gives me a sense of purpose, tho I was worried I wouldn’t fit into this new dynamic, or the children wouldn’t accept me.

Her oldest is a teenage boy and I told her it would be tough on him at first but I’ve been thru it before, we had a good casual friendship. But her 3 little girls accepted me instantly and stole my heart.

4 months in, I came over and half her walk in closet was empty and she announced it was mine. I was honestly taken back, but she has shared custody and no kids around every other week, so I was over there a lot. And always dragging a bag for the weekends.

About this time I made a comment about women who hyphenate their last names instead of taking the husbands last name and she got all upset, “well I have the same last name as my kids. So that’s probably how I would do it”…

I said, “but you told me ur never getting married again”… she replied “well what if we get married”? At the time I was not expecting to hear this, and it was surprising. She walked away from her divorce with 7 figures, quite a sum of money. I’m far from broke but her net worth is multiples of mine. I was shocked that a woman in her position would even risk getting married again… but I was nevertheless touched.

Honestly the first gf I would have ever considered marrying. Approaching 40, I found the whole scenario to be a dream come true. The girl of my dreams, beautiful kids, the family life in a beautiful home on 24 acres in the countryside.

She wasn’t divorced for very long and I was the first bf she introduced to her kids. And actually brought into the home. She would tell the kids that when I “move in” things will be like this and things will be like that, and I’ll be the “man of the house”…

My point being she values her kids above all else, and she shared her “fantasy” if u will, with them as much as me, so I don’t think she was trying to be manipulative, I think she believed it 100%.


So about month 4-5 she did a lot of future talk about “can’t wait for me to move in one day”. In my mind I thought, sure maybe, years down the road. Now I don’t think that’s where her mind was at the time. After expressing how bad she wanted me to live there she started prefacing it with “we would have to be married before u moved in” to set an example for the kids.

As early as I thought this discussion was, I didn’t have a problem with it, I did want to live together as husband and wife one day.

At five months we had our first real argument, she pulled-back and then said “we’re done”. I was shocked but I have so much respect for a mother with kids, i just said okay I’m not going to argue with u. I was devastated.

She began communicating 3 days later, then visited, then offered me friendship. I was confused and immediately said no. She was upset. She tried a few more times over text, I declined.

After 2-3 weeks, she reached out and I said I would take her on a date but I wouldn’t be her friend. We spent a day in the park, and poof*, back together.

It didn’t feel like a real break up tho I accepted it. It felt much more like a test. She also said she was hurt by “how little I fought for her” which was a red flag for me.

The next two months we spent a lot of time together, whole weeks just us at her place, essentially playing house, and simulating what it would be like. Maybe this wasn’t smart, maybe this was too fast, but I thought it was good to know if we could cohabitate long term before jumping into a marriage.

We seldom had disagreements. We were always able to discuss and resolve issues in person. I noticed texting was always counterproductive to resolving conflicts, and phone could be problematic but in person we could always solve an issue.

In the summer we went to kids ball games, the fair, a beach resort getaway, concerts... we had a blast.

In the late summer, she had a death in the family and told me she had to go back home to NYC. I’ve never been, and she didn’t want to go alone, so we booked 5 days and drove out. The drive bonded us even more. And I was excited to see where she grew up.

We went to NYC abs I experienced her Albanian heritage deeply. They served whiskey every day all day during the preparation for the services, then more whiskey the day of, then more alcohol at dinner. I took the attitude of “when in rome” and joined in, I was enjoying NYC. But she got upset with how much I drank the last evening in the city.

This came back home with us. This sparked the spiral of devaluation over the next week. After a Friday night out, we got home, and she seemed upset. We went to bed without saying much. The next morning she was upset with how “I was”, that I “went to bed mad”. She cancelled our plans for the evening.

I was upset with her canceling. We tried to discuss the issue later on FaceTime and it went south. The next few days we argued about many imbalances in the relationship, and couldn’t see eye to eye on anything but it was never toxic screaming, swearing, or insults. It was respectful and she was very upset.

I refrained from matching her energy when she got worked up, but she continued minimizing my contributions. Our relationship was very one-sided, in terms of who was putting in effort. Understandably, I know she has kids to look after and I would be up to me to accommodate around this schedule, none-the less I was upset to see my efforts minimized. When I began listing all the things I do for her, she crashed. Tears, then the break up.

After dropping my clothes off in trash bags, she face timed me the next day to “see how I was doing”. I was like “u can’t seriously be FaceTiming me if we’re broken up”.

She didn’t pitch friendship this time but we stayed in a grey area arguing about the issues for weeks. Then me begging for us to work it out. She said no. After two months I went no contact. I said goodbye.

30 days to the day, she text me. Random “I need ur help with something” bs. Then I heard nothing.

A couple weeks later I got the “I miss talking to you” text. We met up for lunch. This was 4 months post-break up. We discussed our separate lives, what we’ve been up to.

She was slightly emotional as I left.

A week or two later we begin texting again. We meet up for drinks and lots is said about the relationship. The “issues”. She then pitches friendship again. I said no that’s impossible at this point. She got upset. Said “I miss my best friend”.

We still keep texting and a few calls. I said I can’t do friendship but if she’s interested in “fixing” what she broke, we can sit down and agree to work on it. She was adamant about friendship.

I kind of ignore the friendship proposition and just continue talking to her but she is resistant to acknowledge she wants to fix things yet all we discuss is the break up. She then says she “can’t be with anyone”, has to heal... okay.

Jan 1st I said we should part ways, since it’s a new year and we both want different things. She was very upset over text, I seriously didn’t expect her to be. I explained we don’t want the same things and told her to not contact me any more.

One week later she texts me that she was “heartbroken” for what I’ve done, and that I was “too blind to see” that she was giving me a path back to fixing things with her but she wanted to go “slow”.

We talk on the phone for the next two days, she says she was just getting comfortable talking to me again, and I ruined it. And I pushed her, and hurt her all over again.

I had just signed in a new condo and moved. After talking on the phone I said she could pop in to see my new place. I didn’t think she would come over but she was running errands and popped in for 10 mins. She was nice. She looked around the place, said “well this is interesting” and we said good bye.

She text me a bit more that day, and  now nothing.

So I know I haven’t heard the last from her but I have really pulled back on me initiating conversation at this point.

After visiting, it’s now been a week and I haven’t heard from her. This is the approach avoidance cycle that is so maddening. I know she is likely processing the whole situation and experiencing the twin anxieties and all that... but it’s tormenting sitting in the grey area wondering how long the limbo can last.

Essentially I am moving on in my own direction but I do wish we could reconcile, and have a normal relationship that isn’t overshadowed by a storybook fantasy, but I also realize it’s the fantasy she was in love with... I think.

What I’ve learned about the approach avoidance is that if I pursue, it triggers the avoidance, any amount of me moving towards her emotionally.

When I turn and leave, she pulls me back, then reestablishes her hesitancy or disinterest to reconcile.

I feel like all I can do is stand still and wait for her to approach me then mirror her at her own pace or I will trigger engulfment anxiety.

Very curious to hear others thoughts. On one hand it seems she is interested in reconciliation as she pursues me when I say goodbye, along with visiting my place. But this is BPD so I’m never sure about anything.

I’ve read many BPD horror stories and I feel blessed that the good part was actually good and the bad part has bad painful but not toxic. No volatile language, no hurtful words. This woman isn’t perfect but she has never tried to hurt me with words, or misbehavior even. Never tried to make me jealous, didn’t cheat, didn’t instantly move on to a new relationship.

If any BPD relationship is salvageable I feel like this one is. We’ve been split for 5 months but back in the push pull cycle for 6 weeks.

Interested in opinions on if this is worth working on, and also any advice for handling the push pull compulsion. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[SaltyDawg]

The Lone Pine,



We are here to listen and support you emotionally.

Normally I am brief, however, as you have written a lot, and it resonates with me, I will expand a bit...

I will put your quotes in italics, and I will respond to several of your observations, and reflect back to you what I am thinking.


Upfront, my ex is undiagnosed but I have her pinned as the “covert borderline” as vaknin describes to some degree. “High functioning” and a “Love addict” in the sense of a true romantic fantasizing about ideal love, the perfect marriage…etc.

Professor Vaknin, is a self-aware psychopath, he brings a lot of good points to his personal observations, from a perspective 'it takes one to know one' and he is not a licensed professional.  For a better understanding, I would suggest reading the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder Paperback" by Randi Kreger & Paul T. T. Mason MS - be sure to get the most recent edition, which is the 3rd edition as it has an excellent assessment tool in it.


No self harm, no actual rage outbursts directed at me during the relationship. Healthy coping mechanisms. Altruism, volunteering for everything. Compulsive people pleasing, active in the hometown community type of mom. Low Bordem threshold. Has to keep busy, no drug or alcohol abuse. Neat Freak. But definitely impulsive. Also self aware and often doubts or worries about her decisions. Two steps forward one step back. Indecisive and self doubting. Also has the strong independent do it yourself mentality. Always said she wanted a man but didn’t need a man.

She sounds a lot like my wife; however, my wife can occasionally be violent too which are 99% under control - but that 1% is still not acceptable.  The traits I put in bold are not typically borderline traits.  However, you may also want to look at OCPD as a comorbidity, depending on which NIH peer review study you look at there is up to a 50% comorbidity with BPD and OCPD.


We met one year ago right after new years. Instant connection, talked a ton on FaceTime. She opened up about her childhood trauma and life experiences, warned me that she “runs” from relationships. And although she was divorced twice, I viewed the  marriages as a sign of ability to commit. Her first husband developed a mental illness and she had to leave. So I didn’t fault her for that one. The second marriage was 8 years. She just says she “settled” and regretted it.

Almost everyone here will describe the 'instant connection'.  Childhood trauma brings a lot of baggage, at a minimum codependency, and many times more serious things like BPD.  She has already warned you that she 'runs' from relationships, please heed this warning, and take the necessary precautions to protect yourself.


She had been divorced for a year and a half, built her dream home, and had just moved in 2 months before meeting me. She has 4 children, and told me she’s never getting married again and done having kids.

I’m 38. My previous ex had 3 kids and I essentially raised the youngest from age 7 to 17, so I have parenting experience and I actually want kids. Family gives me a sense of purpose, tho I was worried I wouldn’t fit into this new dynamic, or the children wouldn’t accept me.

I said, “but you told me ur never getting married again”… she replied “well what if we get married”? At the time I was not expecting to hear this, and it was surprising. She walked away from her divorce with 7 figures, quite a sum of money. I’m far from broke but her net worth is multiples of mine. I was shocked that a woman in her position would even risk getting married again… but I was nevertheless touched.

It seems there are a few contradictions there.  It sounds like you have a good level head on your shoulders, and it would appear that you have no illusion as to the situation.  If this feels to fast for you, follow you 'gut' on this.


At five months we had our first real argument, she pulled-back and then said “we’re done”. I was shocked but I have so much respect for a mother with kids, i just said okay I’m not going to argue with u. I was devastated.

She began communicating 3 days later, then visited, then offered me friendship. I was confused and immediately said no. She was upset. She tried a few more times over text, I declined.

After 2-3 weeks, she reached out and I said I would take her on a date but I wouldn’t be her friend. We spent a day in the park, and poof*, back together.

It didn’t feel like a real break up tho I accepted it. It felt much more like a test. She also said she was hurt by “how little I fought for her” which was a red flag for me.

3-days is consistent with the 'mood swing' symptom.  Being painted white / black is also consistent as well, where you were devalued, discarded, recycled, and idolized again (fantasy thinking), this is very consistent with BPD symptoms.

The trait of 'how little I fought for her' is also a as she wants to feel validated, and you will make the effort, not to abandon her.  pwBPD, do a bunch of little tests, that eventually become bigger tests.  It is good that you realize this, keep your eyes open for more flags.


The next two months we spent a lot of time together, whole weeks just us at her place, essentially playing house, and simulating what it would be like. Maybe this wasn’t smart, maybe this was too fast, but I thought it was good to know if we could cohabitate long term before jumping into a marriage.

Follow your 'gut' on this, if you feel it is going too fast, then it is going too fast - take your time.


We seldom had disagreements. We were always able to discuss and resolve issues in person. I noticed texting was always counterproductive to resolving conflicts, and phone could be problematic but in person we could always solve an issue.

Same with my wife, my wife didn't like texts and e-mails as that created a document trail, and if she changed what she thought she said, I could reference this - I don't know if you have observed her twisting facts to match her feelings, this is a fairly common trait among pwBPD.


In the summer we went to kids ball games, the fair, a beach resort getaway, concerts... we had a blast.

In the late summer, she had a death in the family and told me she had to go back home to NYC. I’ve never been, and she didn’t want to go alone, so we booked 5 days and drove out. The drive bonded us even more. And I was excited to see where she grew up.

We went to NYC abs I experienced her Albanian heritage deeply. They served whiskey every day all day during the preparation for the services, then more whiskey the day of, then more alcohol at dinner. I took the attitude of “when in rome” and joined in, I was enjoying NYC. But she got upset with how much I drank the last evening in the city.

pwOCPD are rules based and will follow societal rules very closely, and OCPD can mask symptoms of BPD as some of the traits/symptoms are offset by each other.  pwBPD are prone to drinking too much; whereas, pwOCPD follow the rules, and will not drink excessively.


This came back home with us. This sparked the spiral of devaluation over the next week. After a Friday night out, we got home, and she seemed upset. We went to bed without saying much. The next morning she was upset with how “I was”, that I “went to bed mad”. She cancelled our plans for the evening.

I was upset with her canceling. We tried to discuss the issue later on FaceTime and it went south. The next few days we argued about many imbalances in the relationship, and couldn’t see eye to eye on anything but it was never toxic screaming, swearing, or insults. It was respectful and she was very upset.

The devaluation could be BPD... 


I refrained from matching her energy when she got worked up, but she continued minimizing my contributions. Our relationship was very one-sided, in terms of who was putting in effort. Understandably, I know she has kids to look after and I would be up to me to accommodate around this schedule, none-the less I was upset to see my efforts minimized. When I began listing all the things I do for her, she crashed. Tears, then the break up.

After dropping my clothes off in trash bags, she face timed me the next day to “see how I was doing”. I was like “u can’t seriously be FaceTiming me if we’re broken up”.

This is typical BPD behavior.  The false narrative, where her feelings change her perception of the facts where you did little to nothing in the home.

Then the break-up, after a quick devalue phase.

Then the facetiming the following day as though nothing happened, the mood swings lasting from a few hours to a few days, another symptom.


She didn’t pitch friendship this time but we stayed in a grey area arguing about the issues for weeks. Then me begging for us to work it out. She said no. After two months I went no contact. I said goodbye.

A week or two later we begin texting again. We meet up for drinks and lots is said about the relationship. The “issues”. She then pitches friendship again. I said no that’s impossible at this point. She got upset. Said “I miss my best friend”.

One week later she texts me that she was “heartbroken” for what I’ve done, and that I was “too blind to see” that she was giving me a path back to fixing things with her but she wanted to go “slow”.

We talk on the phone for the next two days, she says she was just getting comfortable talking to me again, and I ruined it. And I pushed her, and hurt her all over again.

I had just signed in a new condo and moved. After talking on the phone I said she could pop in to see my new place. I didn’t think she would come over but she was running errands and popped in for 10 mins. She was nice. She looked around the place, said “well this is interesting” and we said good bye.

She text me a bit more that day, and now nothing.

Essentially I am moving on in my own direction but I do wish we could reconcile, and have a normal relationship that isn’t overshadowed by a storybook fantasy, but I also realize it’s the fantasy she was in love with... I think.

What I’ve learned about the approach avoidance is that if I pursue, it triggers the avoidance, any amount of me moving towards her emotionally.

When I turn and leave, she pulls me back, then reestablishes her hesitancy or disinterest to reconcile.

I feel like all I can do is stand still and wait for her to approach me then mirror her at her own pace or I will trigger engulfment anxiety.

So you pursued, and were rejected, I think you are right on the fear/anxiety of 'engulfment'.

I think she is honest about "I miss my best friend", you are likely her favorite person.

Then she offers you a path back, but you don't bite.

She checks out your place and says "this is interesting" - what do you think she thought was 'interesting'?  My guess, and this is only a guess, is she was scoping out your place to see if there were any photographs of other women there, old flames, a new girlfriend, etc.  pwBPD, will do reconnaissance so they can maneuver their relationship with you to obtain what they want.

I agree with you about the fantasy part too; that is part of the idolization part and then it will shift back to the devaluation.

She has been divorced twice, if you marry her you could be the 3rd.

I know that this is the bettering board, so I cannot tell you to run; however, it sounds like you are conflicted on staying, and have gone NC with her on this in the past, and now want her back - you are also sending her mixed signals, in addition to all of the mixed signals she has sent you.

What I can tell you, is that her past behaviors are indicative of future ones.  She also gave you several warnings about her behavior, that you have not heeded.  Also, marriage will likely make the situation worse, or having children, it did for me.

I would suggest making a list, on paper, of the pluses and minuses of having a relationship with her.  Looking at the minus column, look for any 'deal breakers'.

You are also describing the push-pull cycle, this will keep you in the relationship, in a trauma bond with her.

I would highly recommend, that you seek out your own therapist, to deal with your own emotions in this relationship - I initially resisted seeking individual therapy, but when I went, I was glad I did.


Very curious to hear others thoughts. On one hand it seems she is interested in reconciliation as she pursues me when I say goodbye, along with visiting my place. But this is BPD so I’m never sure about anything.

I’ve read many BPD horror stories and I feel blessed that the good part was actually good and the bad part has bad painful but not toxic. No volatile language, no hurtful words. This woman isn’t perfect but she has never tried to hurt me with words, or misbehavior even. Never tried to make me jealous, didn’t cheat, didn’t instantly move on to a new relationship.

She sounds better than my wife, who does have the more classic BPD traits.  However, as yours does not, she will likely never think of herself this way, and if you tell her, it will not go over well.  The not cheating part is OCPD rule following, as they tend to be ultra-loyal.


If any BPD relationship is salvageable I feel like this one is. We’ve been split for 5 months but back in the push pull cycle for 6 weeks.

Interested in opinions on if this is worth working on, and also any advice for handling the push pull compulsion. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

The relationship you describe is 'too bad to stay; however, it is too good to leave'.  You need to do what is best for you.  The push-pull compulsion will likely lead to a trauma bond.  Seek out a licensed therapist to figure out what you are bringing to the table.  I also feel that a relationship can be salvageable with an uBPD/uOCPD woman, as I have one myself.  However, they must be self-aware of their own issues, willing to work on those issues in counseling both individual and couples.

The longer you stay in such a relationship, the more pronounced these cycles will become, unless they are stopped with therapy.

You can only change you, and she can only change herself.  The most you can do is 'ask'. 

Keep coming back and ask for specifics, and I will do my best to guide you, and increase your understanding of the dynamic.  If there is anything you don't understand, ask.  I or others will help you out.

In any event, be kind to yourself with self-care, whatever that might look like for you.

Take care.

SD

[The_Lone_Pine]

Ty saltydawg,

I know I wrote a short novel. But I really value your input and the information on OCPD. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your perspective along with your personal experience. Take care and god bless.

[The_Lone_Pine]

She has accepted responsibility for being the one who ends her relationships preemptively out of fear. She’s expressed “I need to find out what I’m afraid of before I can be with someone”

She’s described her fear of abandonment, and I added that I think she has a fear of losing her independence when relationships become too intimate. She broke down because I was right. She is very self aware, struggles to take full responsibility bc she still holds me accountable for her “pain”.

I pointed out there’s a difference between me hurting her and me accidentally touching a core wound that triggers her past trauma. This resonated with her.

She is very open and vulnerable about her inability to manage long relationships, and has considered therapy. Said it was very painful in the past but idk if she ever tried BDT therapy to help manage her emotions and reactions.

When we talk about all this stuff she’s pretty accepting and I remind her I’m here to support her and not judge.

But it seems like she isn’t emotionally available to commit to repairing things, yet can’t fully let me go, which is the painful part.

[SaltyDawg]

Ty saltydawg,

I know I wrote a short novel. But I really value your input and the information on OCPD. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your perspective along with your personal experience. Take care and god bless.

The Lone Pine,

   You are welcome, I will comment a bit more on your follow-on post next...

She has accepted responsibility for being the one who ends her relationships preemptively out of fear. She’s expressed “I need to find out what I’m afraid of before I can be with someone”

You might want to explore 'fear of engulfment' which is similar, yet opposite to the fear of abandonment, where she feels like she would be losing control of her sense of self by getting too close to you.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281066.0;all

She’s described her fear of abandonment, and I added that I think she has a fear of losing her independence when relationships become too intimate. She broke down because I was right. She is very self aware, struggles to take full responsibility bc she still holds me accountable for her “pain”.

She is responsible for her own actions, and the pain resulting from those actions - you might want to examine 'blame shifting' where she cannot accept responsibility out of same, so she will shift the blame to you as coping mechanism.  Here is an article here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206322.0 you can also ask google to show you more articles on the topic.

I pointed out there’s a difference between me hurting her and me accidentally touching a core wound that triggers her past trauma. This resonated with her.

This is good, focus on topics that resonate for her, this way she and you can identify these issues - once they are identified, then you can work on them to minimize how it affects your relationship.  If they remain hidden, they will forever affect the dynamic between the two of you.

She is very open and vulnerable about her inability to manage long relationships, and has considered therapy. Said it was very painful in the past but idk if she ever tried BDT therapy to help manage her emotions and reactions.

Self-awareness is a good thing, and a willingness to work on it, even better.  There are many different kinds of therapy - DBT ( dialectical behavioral therapy ) is considered the gold standard for treating BPD, as it does not focus on negative aspect of other types of therapy.  DBT can also be used for OCPD, although not nearly as popular there.

When we talk about all this stuff she’s pretty accepting and I remind her I’m here to support her and not judge.

All good stuff, validate her feelings, and do provide emotional support, the best you can.

But it seems like she isn’t emotionally available to commit to repairing things, yet can’t fully let me go, which is the painful part.

Since this is the bettering board, I cannot tell you to run.  However, you do need to figure out your needs and wants, and then prioritize those needs and wants, as only you can look after your interest the best.

Keep coming back, and ask questions.

Take care.

SD