Caretaker support groups? And some sharing…

[campbembpd]

Hey all, my relationship with my uBPDw is an ongoing saga and roller coaster. I’ve dived into a number of books learning as much as I can and really starting to think about how I could live my life differently. But seems like such a long hard road to do it with my partner. I really want to spend the next year working on me to see if things change for the better and if life can be more enjoyable.

The last book I read is “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist…” listened to the audio book twice and just received the paperback.

One of the things the book referenced was finding a caretaker support group.y therapist recommended CODA.org but I’m wondering if there is something more specific for us partners of people with BPD. I haven’t had luck finding anything - does anyone know a good support groups that meet online?

Right now we’ve had a good 5 days or so but I sense bubbling under her surface.its hard to pinpoint but she goes from last week for over a week being enraged and angry to crying hysterically, begging me to agree and support her to seemingly calm but seething with harsh words. then once she resets she gets loving, easy going, kind and nice to be around. She starts helping more around the house and it’s like I have my old wife back.

Nothing new has happened but it seems after a few days at home she gets bored. She states how much she dislikes staying at home every night and wants to go out. Then she has anxiety about the weekend. She’s said weekends are the hardest for her because she again hates being stuck at home. I offered to go out tonight because I know it will make her feel better. But… I would be happy to stay at home. I also said let’s plan something for the weekend but it seems to be up to me or becomes my fault when something isn’t planned and we aren’t doing something. Never mind the fact we really can’t afford to go out like she wants to every week. When I brought up my concern last week about her wanting to plan trips in the spring when we have no money and will go deeper into debt she said ‘what’s more important? Our marriage or finances?’

I know I made a mistake - I said let’s focus on our marriage and healing for the next few months and not worry about the debt for now. But I’m so scared, we’re getting to a place where it will take years to payoff our debt. she has never been satisfied with doing things in budget or taking a break from going out or god forbid we don’t take multiple trips a year… then I fully think she will blame me for us being so far in debt. She’s done it before, we’ve refinanced our house and gotten a 2nd mortgage to pay off debts. But she won’t listen when I clearly say we can’t afford this life she wants to live. But she’s miserable so miserable with an ‘ordinary life’.. and live within our means. In the end I feel like I just let a 2 year old throwing a tantrum get her way if that makes sense?

Also She gets enraged with the prospect of working more which to me is the best solution. She’s resented having to work at all but averages maybe 10-15 hours a week. But complains about how much work she has to do. When I’ve brought it up in the past she’ll go off and say things like all I want her to do is work work work.

I’m trying not to be too hard on myself. Long vent, thanks…

One last thing - I get confused where I should post… sometimes I feel so conflicted about staying in my marriage or feel like I need to plan and exit I post there, how I’m feeling today is I would really like to better the relationship and find a way to make it work.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[CravingPeace]

Hey all, my relationship with my uBPDw is an ongoing saga and roller coaster. I’ve dived into a number of books learning as much as I can and really starting to think about how I could live my life differently. But seems like such a long hard road to do it with my partner. I really want to spend the next year working on me to see if things change for the better and if life can be more enjoyable.

I completely hear you and understand. Sometimes I am adamant I would be happier divorced. Then I get panicy then feel actually it's better to stay. I have been reflecting on it and I think it goes with the push and pull of the relationship. When she is being cold and distant and doing dysregulated stuff I think wow this is not right, I should leave. When she breaks down saying how hard life is and she can't cope, and she misses me, and she wants everything to be good, and she is trying her best. That closeness the sharing of her vulnerabilities makes me want to stay. But I also need to recognize it for what it is. Push Pull. It in itself is very unstable and is the exact thing that keeps me hooked. I need to work more on myself and I am. Just like you taking this year to deeply work and consider what is best for me, kids, and also her to be honest.

The last book I read is “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist…” listened to the audio book twice and just received the paperback.

Awesome book, haven't quite finished but it helps alot.

One of the things the book referenced was finding a caretaker support group.y therapist recommended CODA.org but I’m wondering if there is something more specific for us partners of people with BPD. I haven’t had luck finding anything - does anyone know a good support groups that meet online?

I don't but it seems a good idea to get the support from a group understanding.

But… I would be happy to stay at home. I also said let’s plan something for the weekend but it seems to be up to me or becomes my fault when something isn’t planned and we aren’t doing something.

This I completely get. Due to the constant stress of the relationship I haven't really wanted to plan things with her. It isn't really fun and I don't feel close. Years of emotional abuse have worn me down so I tend to avoid it. She does often make comments we don't do anything anymore, or why am I not planning things. She won't plan anything. It needs to be me. If I don't I am bad and uncaring. If I do I am not engaging enough or fun enough on the date.


 

In the end I feel like I just let a 2 year old throwing a tantrum get her way if that makes sense?

It completely does. I am trying to see them for what they are though. Tantrums. It makes it better in my mind at least. It's not giving into them that takes alot of work, and be kind to yourself. You won't get it right all the time.

One last thing - I get confused where I should post… sometimes I feel so conflicted about staying in my marriage or feel like I need to plan and exit I post there, how I’m feeling today is I would really like to better the relationship and find a way to make it work.

I post here for now, but I too sometimes feel I should be posting in the other forums. But while I am still in it and my mind swings back and forth I tend to feel like sticking here and airing on the optimistic side that it can be saved. There is no right answer though. Totally personal. And maybe sometimes you post here and sometimes there depending how things are going!

[Notwendy]

One of the things the book referenced was finding a caretaker support group.y therapist recommended CODA.org but I’m wondering if there is something more specific for us partners of people with BPD. I haven’t had luck finding anything - does anyone know a good support groups that meet online?

Coda is an appropriate group and by far easier to find a group than one specific to BPD. I don't know of any ones specific to BPD that are accessible but CODA groups are. The dynamics in relationships with someone with a disorder like BPD are for the most part identical to one with drug and alcohol abuse. Sometimes both can occur such as in your situation.

By the same reasoning, your D can benefit from ACOA groups.

I have done both and both have been helpful. But you have to do the program. It's not going to be as helpful to attend meetings only. One needs to work with a sponsor and do the work of looking at your own caretaking and enabling behavior in order to make changes in your part of the dynamics. If your T has recommended them, they believe it will be helpful to you too. A search on the internet will locate what is available. Search 12 step recovery groups.

[SaltyDawg]

I personally go to two groups, neither one is specific to BPD; however, in both groups I have come across people who are dealing with borderlines.

CoDA.org as others have mentioned; however, pwBPD also attend, and you need to be mindful of this as all borderlines are codependents; however, the reverse is not true.  As such, there is a need to use SET communication when sharing your story as most in CoDA have other mental health issues as well.

NAMI.org I actually find a bit more useful, as they don't enforce the cross-talk rule as much, as they have two different groups one with people who have these issues, and the other for the partners/parents of people with issues - this is the one I attend, and I find it to be very useful at times.

[Notwendy]

CODA groups are open to anyone- and are lay led- so yes, you will find a wide range of people attending them. After going for a while you can see who you feel has it "more together" and who you can relate to. I feel very fortunate that my sponsor was the right person to do this with- and she must have sensed that too. She was someone who had gone through the recovery process. She didn't have BPD.

I have heard people in the groups speak and wonder if they were NPD or BPD. I think it's good to be cautious since it is a public group but also not discount the help that could come from it. Also, while all groups follow a certain format- the mix of the group might vary- different people in them. I have felt some groups fit better than others. You can try a few- see what fits best or if at all.

They don't take the place of a therapist- it's not professional therapy, but I have learned a lot from them. 

[kells76]

One of the things the book referenced was finding a caretaker support group.y therapist recommended CODA.org but I’m wondering if there is something more specific for us partners of people with BPD. I haven’t had luck finding anything - does anyone know a good support groups that meet online?

The National Education Alliance for Borderline Personality Disorder offers the Family Connections course:

Family Connections™ – BPD/Emotion Dysregulation is a free, evidence-based 24-hour course that meets weekly for either 8 or 12 weeks and requires 1-2 hours of weekly homework and practice. Periodically, we also offer the course as a 2-day or 4-day weekend intensive. This course provides education, skill training, and support for individuals who are supporting someone affected by Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) or Emotion Dysregulation (ED), or exhibiting BPD/ED traits.

I believe the current waitlist is 5-6 months long.

[campbembpd]

Thanks all for the responses.

 kells76 - thanks for that reference for the Family Connections program. I signed up on the waiting list. Have you attended or know anyone that attended?

SaltyDawg - I started looking at NAMI and found a guys group on CODA.org I'm going to try out as well.

NotWendy - definitely not looking to replace therapy, I agree.

Wife is where I consider a light simmer. Hard to explain. She's not over the edge but I can sense she's one comment away from escalating. She was already a little there then my daughter, who is 17 1/2, got invited to go on a camping trip with a large group of people from the church. It is a mix of boys and girls with quite a few parents going. My wife's instinct was to say no, that's too much - 3 nights?! she said. My wife started gong on again to my DD that she's spending all her time with this boy and his family but she's not bringing him around us (I can't imagine why...) and to my wife's credit she recognized and said to DD that it's jealousy and knows she's growing up and this is normal... then when we went to bed she was escalating and spiraling some with me going on about other things - like DD doesn't have a job and needs to get one (I agree), she doesn't help out enough around the house (she does what she's asked to do my wife thinks she should just 'do' more).  Then asked flat out if she said she didn't want DD to go on this trip would I support her. I didn't even think and said yes I would. I told her I wanted a day or 2 to think about it. She didn't like that. I said we should come to a decision and talk to the other parents about it to get comfortable. My whole thing is she will be 5 months from 18 when this trip happens. Like we can't keep our thumbs on her right?

It's a little scary as a dad but then again my wife has been okay with our DD staying at a friends family place overnight where she knows 100% there is alcohol her school friends are drinking and other guys with limited adult supervision (non church friends but DD doesn't partake and the mom is a little checked out). So doesn't make sense to me she's okay with that but not a camping trip with several church families...  But didn't go into that. Wife texted me today she's not going to argue about the camping trip and if she wants to go let her go. She said she needs to focus on her and I... but I'm not convinced that's the end of it.

We had talked about doing something this weekend earlier in the week. After that exchange I threw out a bunch of ideas like going to the movies, bowling with the kids and a few other things. I got a very lackluster, stiff response from my wife. Said "that sounds happy. I'll being some ideas to the table as well". I can sense the underwhelming response from her. She sent short, limited responses to my texts. Not like her usual when she's in a good space.

My caretaking instincts kicked in. I find I'm just caving right now. Needing a peaceful weekend I thought of some other things and found a live music performance show tomorrow night ($$) and told her I want to take her out to dinner before the show and also take her out to buy a new dress for it as well. Then the response was I brought her to tears, thank you thank you thank you.

Ugh I feel so weak. I just hope this buys (literally) at least a good 5-7 days. The thing is I know next weekend will come around and it will come time for me to plan the next big activity as she starts to get moody. I feel like I'm feeding a bottomless pit. LOL. 

[SaltyDawg]

Wife is where I consider a light simmer. Hard to explain. She's not over the edge but I can sense she's one comment away from escalating.

That is why it is called 'borderline' - they are literally on the border of being sane/rational and insane/irrational as 'one comment' can send her across / over the edge of being rational to being irrational.

She was already a little there then my daughter, who is 17 1/2, got invited to go on a camping trip with a large group of people from the church. It is a mix of boys and girls with quite a few parents going. My wife's instinct was to say no, that's too much - 3 nights?! she said. My wife started gong on again to my DD that she's spending all her time with this boy and his family but she's not bringing him around us (I can't imagine why...) and to my wife's credit she recognized and said to DD that it's jealousy and knows she's growing up and this is normal... then when we went to bed she was escalating and spiraling some with me going on about other things - like DD doesn't have a job and needs to get one (I agree), she doesn't help out enough around the house (she does what she's asked to do my wife thinks she should just 'do' more).  Then asked flat out if she said she didn't want DD to go on this trip would I support her. I didn't even think and said yes I would. I told her I wanted a day or 2 to think about it. She didn't like that. I said we should come to a decision and talk to the other parents about it to get comfortable. My whole thing is she will be 5 months from 18 when this trip happens. Like we can't keep our thumbs on her right?

I have a 17-1/4 yo daughter - similar issues with my wife, DD can go on on the more difficult trips, yet the easier ones she cannot, and she will turn 18 later on this year as well.  I encourage my DD to do things, as it gets her out of the house and exposed to healthier examples of good behavior by others, wife is hot or cold on this - on some her fear of abandonment kicks in too hard, and restricts our daughters movements outside of the home.  I try to allow more freedom than I would otherwise with DD, as it exposes her to better behaviors elsewhere.

My caretaking instincts kicked in. I find I'm just caving right now. Needing a peaceful weekend I thought of some other things and found a live music performance show tomorrow night ($$) and told her I want to take her out to dinner before the show and also take her out to buy a new dress for it as well. Then the response was I brought her to tears, thank you thank you thank you.

Ugh I feel so weak. I just hope this buys (literally) at least a good 5-7 days. The thing is I know next weekend will come around and it will come time for me to plan the next big activity as she starts to get moody. I feel like I'm feeding a bottomless pit. LOL. 

'Caving' is a form of 'appeasing' - 'appeasing' may work in the short term, but it does not in the long term.  The response you described sounds like you 'reached' her and validated her feelings - so in this particular instance, you lucked out, and this is a good short term fix, she felt heard and validated.  However, when she reverts back to being irrational/insane - only speak to her feelings, ignore her version of the distorted facts (unless they are true from your perspective), until she is baseline again.  It sounds like she is similar to my wife in many ways, and can only be reasoned with when she is not triggered.  Only validate the valid, her feelings, and do not validate the invalid, the false narrative.

The 'bottomless pit' analogy is a good one, you can pour all of your heart and soul into her, and it still will not be enough.  I personally, have throttled back on pleasing / appeasing my wife, and I am having a better relationship because of this, as I have set firm boundaries and limited the amount of appeasing I am willing to do, and if she want more than the minimum, there needs to be reciprocity (she needs to put a fair effort too, as I will no longer to it for her, but I will do it with her). 

Enjoy the date with your wife, hopefully it is a version of self-care.  If not, be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Notwendy]

I will share a bit about what we are dealing with now- as an incentive to you to get a handle on the finances and your appeasing your wife with $$ outings while taking out a second mortgage to pay off your debts.

In our family- Dad was in debt when I was a teen, but BPD mother's lifestyle and spending was not compromised. And it hasn't changed.

Somehow Dad must have saved well for their elder years. Maybe once we kids were off on our own he was able to do that.

A while back, we kids found out BPD mother had taken out a home equity loan, without telling anyone and spent about half the value of her house. This to me was alarming because it meant she must have spent much of the savings. She didn't make the connection that the bank owns the house- and if she defaults on the loan- the bank will take it. She was now elderly and needed assistance. This was a crisis situation as her funds were low. We had to quickly move her to assisted living, sold the house for her, sold the car she wasn't driving and whatever was left of the sales, deposited in her bank account.

She's about spent all of that too. She's considered "legally competent" and so I am not able to intervene on her decisions.

Dad was a good caretaker for her. I don't mind that he indulged her if he wanted to, but she doesn't seem to get the idea that spending above one's income can have serious consequences. I am not sure it's possible for her to grasp it. We have made all kinds of efforts to talk to her about it, reduce her costs- she has refused every one of our suggestions. With BPD, feelings are facts. If she wants something, it's a need and she feels she has to have it. Nobody has a problem with her having something nice- but in her situation, it's to the point of putting her in financial harm.

12 step codependency groups have helped me to see the difference between caring behavior, caretaking behavior, and enabling. Even if your group isn't specific to BPD, I think there is good information to learn there.

There's nothing wrong with a nice expensive date and a new dress but there is something wrong when one has taken out a second mortgage and does it often. Because shelter is a basic need. That has to come first and your wife won't figure that out if her spending is enabled.

What is the difference between caring and enabling? The action can be the same. It's the motive. Let's say it's her birthday and you plan a special date- that's a gift, that is caring. But you did this as a form of controlling her feelings, soothing her, so you don't have to be nervous about her mood. You were actually doing this for yourself- to gain some peace and appease her. That is caretaking/enabling. Your own feelings are clues to what you are doing. We feel good about a gift. You feel week, you gave in to "feeding a bottomless pit"- and that is enabling.



Your D sounds like a level headed and mature kid.