4 Year Marriage In Desperate Need Of Advice

[BubbleBeeTuna]

Hello all, a few fair warnings my writing isn’t the best and I have so much bottled in that this may sound like rambling at time and it maybe a king read but I’ll do my best to keep it short and to the point. Any true hearted advice would be so appreciated.


I’m currently separated from my wife we’ve been together for 5 years, my wife has been told she has BPD from a therapist she spoke to shortly.

I feel lost and feel like my own mental health has been deteriorating the  past two years. I’ve been going through a lot of ups and downs with her she’s helped me grow as a person in a lot of ways and I think her and I appreciate it very much. But when it comes to trying to get her to change the things that are clearly destroying our relationship or that are clearly hurting her it’s like literately impossible to do. She will not admit to even having a problem or when I bring up something that she is doing that is not good to us or to her self instead of her saying work OK I’ll work on it to help me get through this she will just bring up a problem of mine or she will say well I’ve done a lot of good in this marriage I’ve helped you a lot and it’s never enough . The truth of the matter is I’ve been asking her to do two things for the past five years and those two things that I want from her is admit when you’re at fault so that we can fix it and don’t lie to me. And I feel like I just cannot get it to happen with her. It’s very frustrating and I’ll go in and talk to her about something that is wrong that I would like to be fixed and I will leave the room feeling like the guilty one and like I’ve done something horrible. We have children and it got to a point where I just stopped caring and lived with it . But now she’s unhappy because I am not giving her attention and I am not giving her love as much as much as she’d like. Also I don’t talk to her as much any more.  I don’t talk to her because I feel I have no voice and nothing I say matters unless it’s something she likes or agrees with. This is basically my life in a nutshell she’s also talks about suicide when she’s really down she has fits of rage in the mornings just waking up to it for no reason. Since we’ve been together there’s been three times she’s admitted I know somethings wrong with me I don’t know why am like this and all three times she agreed to getting help but the next day it’s like we never had that conversation and everything goes back to where we left off. She’s also very smart cunning also very manipulative I know that she knows it’s wrong what she’s doing but just doesn’t care to change it. What kept me in this relationship honestly was my children but also finding out that she has a mental disorder so it made me realize that she isn’t just this hateful stubborn wicked person it’s not her fault but she’s just not allowing me or anyone else to help her. She doesn’t see things for what they are she’s just in capable of ever being wrong and whenever she does do something wrong she goes into a depression about it big or little.
I just don’t know what else to do and when I tell her that it’s over we should move on she comes running back and and she’s like the most beautiful normal less nicest person but it’s beginning to scare me. And then once I believe that she’s being honest and except her back when she knows I’m excepting her back she’s back to getting me to change and what I need to do and what I am doing wrong and nothing about what she needs to work on. I don’t family my town friends but no one lives in my house to actually understand what’s happening I question my sanity I still am questioning my sanity I just don’t know what else to do I don’t know if I am taking the wrong approach with her either because whenever the world gets brought up that she’s not doing something correctly or hate we should do it like this it’s like a complete war .

Again I’m sorry for the run-on sentences I’m typing through Siri on my iPhone
I guess my question here is has anyone been in this position and how do I get her the help she needs with her willing.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jabiru]

Hi and welcome I think many of us here have been through similar situations. Feel free to read others' threads for some of their experiences.

From personal experience, I think a big thing that leads to quicker, more reliable results is to change your thinking and behavior. As you've likely seen, it can be difficult or impossible to change your wife's behavior. It's easier to change your own behavior and how you react to her behavior. Check the Tips menu at the top of the page for some good info. Things like enforcing boundaries to protect yourself, not engaging in arguments, not doing things out of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), not be invalidating, etc. All these skills can be found on this website. I benefited from reading the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" which nicely links all these topics together in a single book, and I recommend it.

Know that lots of us here have been through similar experiences and can offer advice. Thoughts on next steps?

[M604V]

Remind yourself of what real love looks like. Not storybook love necessarily but just real, honest, true love. The love between friends, family members, romantic partners, whatever. Remind yourself of what true, strong, reciprocal friendship looks like. Really sit with that and come up with real-life examples that you can recall in your mind.

Now compare those visualizations to the reality that is your relationship with your partner. Are they similar?  Would the friend treat you this way? Your aunt? A coworker? And if they did would you persist in the relationship or would you adjust your behavior? And, if you adjusted your behavior toward those others what would happen? At worst some hurt feelings, perhaps a “lessening of the relationship”, no? Or would it result in full-on war?

My point/opinion is that there is something flawed within us, something missing, some pain that we are trying to soothe that allows us to look beyond all of the sh!t that pwBPD “do to us” and allows us to accept things from them that we would never accept from other people. I think that it resembles an addiction; we’re willing to engage with someone who is often “bad”, in the desperate hope that they will be “good”. We remember those glimpses of good and we’re so hungry for more.

 But, like an addiction, it works exponentially and negatively. Early on the relationship was 99% good and 1% bad and things are great! But over time it becomes 90/10, 70/30, 40/60 and finally where you are, 5/95 at best (don’t worry, I’m at about 0/100 myself). So you have to work harder and harder just to get that dopamine hit from her, and those hits are harder to come by and are spaced farther and farther apart.

Until you’ve just had enough and you hit *your* rock bottom. With that comes real honesty, real surrender, giving in for real and just accepting things as they are, NOT THE STORY THAT WE TRY AND TELL OURSELVES.

You have been subjected to abuse in the true sense of the word. Someone whom you trusted to protect and honor you has exploited your weakness for their gain, and done so repeatedly despite your pleas to stop. This is abuse. You have been repeatedly abused.

Did she mean to? I don’t know. But the monster inside of her means to, that’s for sure. That emotional/psychological mess inside of her, that was NEVER your fault, needs you in order to survive. And like a drug addiction, one hit today isn’t the same as one hit early on in the addiction. One hit doesn’t cut it anymore. The monster needs more and more from you just to remain level. Problem is you’ll run out of energy to give it, at which point it will just kill you and move on (ala devalue and discard).

Try that exercise. Just compare her behavior toward you to the way your coworker treats you. Further, compare the way you feel around the coworker to the way you feel around your wife. Like your physical and physiological reactions and feelings. Does one indicate a high level of stress and anxiety? I suspect it does.

I hope this doesn’t come across like self-righteous scolding. Typing it out “to you” is a great way to remind myself that I’m sick and my hard work has only just begun.

Best of luck.

[kells76]

Hi BubbleBeeTuna and a heartfelt to the group. Glad you found us and were ready to share what's going on in your life; we understand how stressful BPD relationships can be.

It makes sense that you're here on the "Bettering a relationship" board, especially given that you two have kids. How old are they, and how are they doing?

You mention that you and your W are separated -- are you separated but both in the same home, or is one of you living elsewhere?

And how did you find out about your W's diagnosis? Did she tell you, or did the therapist tell you, or...?

...

BPD is a serious mental illness that impacts the person's emotional regulation and thought process. She experiences wildly varying and harmfully intense emotions that feel real to her in the moment. She may also struggle with a weak or absent sense of self -- of being a distinct individual with agency to make choices. All that combined means that following her lead, letting her set the tone for the relationship, will get you some severe emotional whiplash and not really make things healthier. She's going to struggle to accept that she needs help because she doesn't feel like she does, doesn't have the insight to process how her choices impact you and the family, and the shame of needing help is too much for her to cope with at her low skill level.

Like M604V mentioned, her having BPD isn't your fault or under your control, and there is something in us that led us to partner with someone with those traits.

But that connects to what Jabiru brought up -- we don't control our partners. We can't make our partners do things, want things, or change things.

The only thing that is 100% under your control, that has the possibility of impacting your relational dynamic, is what you do.

That doesn't mean that what she has done is OK or "not that bad". What it does mean is accepting the reality that she won't be able to take the lead on making healthy changes, and focusing your energy on trying to make her get help may be a dead end. Your energy will be much better used in focusing on what you can do differently to impact the relationship.

After you change your contribution for a while, you can still assess -- OK, this is how things are now that I've taken the lead on setting the emotional tone in our home. Is it workable for me?

It may be much better, or it may not get to a level that you can live with. Either one is OK. The tools and skills we learn and practice here aren't magic wands that change your partner, but they are approaches to keep you safe, protect you from accepting abuse or hurt, and create more opportunities for positive connection with your spouse.

So if we focused here for a minute:

But when it comes to trying to get her to change the things that are clearly destroying our relationship or that are clearly hurting her it’s like literately impossible to do. She will not admit to even having a problem or when I bring up something that she is doing that is not good to us or to her self instead of her saying work OK I’ll work on it to help me get through this she will just bring up a problem of mine or she will say well I’ve done a lot of good in this marriage I’ve helped you a lot and it’s never enough . The truth of the matter is I’ve been asking her to do two things for the past five years and those two things that I want from her is admit when you’re at fault so that we can fix it and don’t lie to me. And I feel like I just cannot get it to happen with her. It’s very frustrating and I’ll go in and talk to her about something that is wrong that I would like to be fixed and I will leave the room feeling like the guilty one and like I’ve done something horrible.   

I just don’t know what else to do I don’t know if I am taking the wrong approach with her either because whenever the world gets brought up that she’s not doing something correctly or hate we should do it like this it’s like a complete war.

One of the strengths of this group is that you can post "conversation transcripts" (that is, what you said, then what she said, then what you said, etc), and as a group we can go over new approaches that you can try next time.

So, if I'm tracking with you, it might go something like this:

Her: says something hurtful to you like "You're such an idiot, why can't you wash the dishes correctly"

You: Babe, I've asked you before, can you please just admit that you're being hurtful, then we can move on from this?

Her: I didn't hurt you at all! I was just saying how I felt. You should be grateful to me that I pointed it out to you.

You: No, you were being hurtful when you said I was an idiot, and anyway, I washed the dishes exactly how you told me to.

Her: I never told you to wash them like that, you messed it up, and you never listen to me

You: I always listen to you, you don't let me have a voice

etc, and the argument continues

...

There are a lot of opportunities in arguments like that, that are under your control, to make changes to the "script" between you two, and to decrease conflict. It doesn't mean that if things get abusive, that you "keep trying" to manage -- you are allowed to leave the argument and leave the room when she blows her top. You don't have to stick around to receive her abusive language.

What it does mean is that before things escalate, there are opportunities for you to use new approaches to improve communication and connection, so that you don't inadvertently contribute to conflict.

...

Lots to take in -- and like so many things related to BPD, there's a balance between taking responsibility to improve your contribution, and valuing yourself enough to not accept abusive behavior.

I'll wrap up there so it's not too much! Just know that while there are no guarantees, there can be hope because you don't need her participation, cooperation, or agreement for you to try new skills and approaches.

-kells76