First Post

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I have been in a romantic relationship with someone who I suspect may have BPD / exhibit BPD traits -  though this is not for sure and I do not believe she has ever been diagnosed.

We have been together for about a year.  Things are quite tough right now; technically we are broken up - although we are still in contact and are trying to see a new Couples' Counsellor (our third).

It was my decision to end the relationship 2 or 3 weeks ago.  We have seen 2 couples' counsellors recently.  In both cases, I would begin to raise some of my concerns, and this would invariably lead to an extremely emotional session, followed by my partners' withdrawal and then us not really talking for 2 or 3 days.

The impact this has had on me is that I am terrified to really tell my partner anything.  So far, I have raised real, but somewhat benign, concerns in our sessions.  For me to feel safe and authentic in this relationship, I'd like to be able to talk about some of my deeper, more private, concerns.  But this has been extremely challenging.  If I can't even raise a relatively benign subject without my partner going into hibernation and hardly eating or sleeping for 2 or 3 days, it scares me to death to raise something more
intimate.

I do hope this new therapist provides some hope.  I care about my partner very much, in so many ways she is a beautiful and very caring person.

Any suggestions or words of advice would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

[northerndude1]

Hello,

I have been in a romantic relationship with someone who I suspect may have BPD / exhibit BPD traits -  though this is not for sure and I do not believe she has ever been diagnosed.

We have been together for about a year.  Things are quite tough right now; technically we are broken up - although we are still in contact and are trying to see a new Couples' Counsellor (our third).

It was my decision to end the relationship 2 or 3 weeks ago.  We have seen 2 couples' counsellors recently.  In both cases, I would begin to raise some of my concerns, and this would invariably lead to an extremely emotional session, followed by my partners' withdrawal and then us not really talking for 2 or 3 days.

The impact this has had on me is that I am terrified to really tell my partner anything.  So far, I have raised real, but somewhat benign, concerns in our sessions.  For me to feel safe and authentic in this relationship, I'd like to be able to talk about some of my deeper, more private, concerns.  But this has been extremely challenging.  If I can't even raise a relatively benign subject without my partner going into hibernation and hardly eating or sleeping for 2 or 3 days, it scares me to death to raise something more
intimate.

I do hope this new therapist provides some hope.  I care about my partner very much, in so many ways she is a beautiful and very caring person.

Any suggestions or words of advice would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

[SaltyDawg]

Northern Dude,

   I would suggest each you and your partner have a one on one with the new therapist (if the therapist is open to this), this way each of you can express your wants and desires in the relationship without triggering the other.  This way the therapist can aggregate each of your concerns, and will be able to broach important topics in a much more tactful and less triggering way.

   In the meantime and be sure to do self-care, whatever that might look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[Pook075]

Hey Northern and welcome!

I completely agree with Salty here.  While the goal is to strengthen communications and ultimately strengthen the relationship, both of you are dealing with individual mental health challenges.  These are tough relationships that can wear you down pretty easily, and having a resource you can speak to openly is a tremendous help.  Most of us here have been to therapy...some just a few visits, and others for an extended period of time.  We learned that by improving our mental health and focus, we could be better partners to support a BPD relationship.

This could be the couples therapist or someone else entirely.  You should definitely consider it though.

[northerndude1]

Thank you Salty & Pook ... your words and encouragement are most appreciated.  It's nice to hear I am not alone in these types of relationships.  I've had relationships before and they are certainly not always easy, but this one has been especially challenging.

[SaltyDawg]

Northern Dude,

   You are definitely not alone here.  If you read some of the horror stories I and others have posted about, may give you a lot to think about.  I strongly encourage you to do an excessive amount of homework on this, as it is a life-long commitment to a relationship as you put it, it will be "especially challenging".

   Since you seem motivated, here is a recommended reading list to learn more about BPD, and how to deal with a person with BPD - the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder" by Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger 3rd edition has an excellent assessment tool in it, older editions do not have this assessment tool in it.

   Normally couple's therapy with a BPD is very difficult as you alluded to, when you have your one on one with your therapist, ask them if they are familiar with the principles in the book "The High-Conflict Couple: Dialectical Behavior Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy" by Alan E. Fruzzetti which is the only one that I am familiar with that specifically addresses intimate relationships with borderlines and other cluster-B personalities.

   If you get back together with her, a good book for you, don't share this with her, as it has some pretty good psychological tools for managing your pwBPD is "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life"  by Margalis Fjelstad, a summary of what you can do can be found at https://margalistherapy.com/articles/borderline-and-narcissism-issues/handbook-for-dealing-with-a-bp-np/

   Since you are choosing to reconcile and stay with a person with BPD, make sure you are emotionally equipped to handle them which can be summarized with having firm unwavering boundaries that are based on love.  Communications should support her feelings with empathy - only validate the valid, do not validate the invalid.  Do not engage when she is dysregulated (irrational), or if you must engage keep it to a minimum only using "I" statements, and avoid the work "you".  There is a lot to learn to have a manageable relationship with a borderline.

   Good luck.  Keep coming back.  Please ask questions, we are here to help support you emotionally.  Do self-care.

   Take care.

SD

[northerndude1]

Thank you, Salty.  I must admit yours and other posts have given me a lot to think about, I will have to reflect on just how prepared I am not embark on this journey.  I feel very, very skeptical to be honest.

I couldn't seem to be able to click on your profile and find all your specific posts per se, but I did the best I could by browsing through the forums.  I can relate with many of these posts.

I ordered the SWOE book, I am looking forward to receiving that in a few days.  I've already committed to going to at least 1 joint couples' counselling session so I feel I should go through with that, although can't help but wonder if that was a mistake - or at the very least, premature.  But I'll go and see what happens.

I was out last night with a few friends, and one of the girls hosted a group meditation session - there were 5 of us.  I soooo needed that.  It made me realize just how much energy this has been consuming.  It feels a bit like you're swimming and struggling to keep from going underwater ... but every now and then your head pops above the waves and you realize there's a whole other world out there.

[SaltyDawg]

Northern Dude,

   Thank you for responding.  I will reflect on what you have spoken of...

Thank you, Salty.  I must admit yours and other posts have given me a lot to think about, I will have to reflect on just how prepared I am not embark on this journey.  I feel very, very skeptical to be honest.

Yes, please do your homework before embarking on this journey - if I could do it over, knowing what I know now, I would have taken a much different path in life than the one that I am on right now.  Right now I feel compelled to stay in my situation, and make the best of it, as my children did not ask to be in this situation, my wife knows she is messed up, and is seeking help; however, she has only addressed half of the issues she has (the ones she is self aware of); however, the other half she is blind to, and our couple's therapist can see this; however, it not helping matters, as it is extremely difficult to address, unlike anger management issues which is very easy to deal with in comparison.

I couldn't seem to be able to click on your profile and find all your specific posts per se, but I did the best I could by browsing through the forums.  I can relate with many of these posts.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=122151;sa=showPosts will give you a list of my posts, there is a lot there.  I have talked about more than one pwBPD, a 12yo son who has enough of symptoms but is too young to diagnose, a 17yo D who is in remission with diagnosed AN (a common comorbidity to BPD), a wife who is OCPD & BPD, an exgf who is BPD/NPD/+ she made regional/national headlines with her issues, a SB who is ASPD sociopath subtype, a closely related Cluster-B, who made national/international headlines with his issues, had a BPD therapist who admitted to being one, and have come across several in a variety of in-person support groups and other circumstances.  I myself am codependent/caretaker, and have my own issues too which more often than not attracts these kinds of PD's.  So, which dynamic do you want to learn about, and I will point you to a few of my posts, or just look around.

I ordered the SWOE book, I am looking forward to receiving that in a few days.  I've already committed to going to at least 1 joint couples' counselling session so I feel I should go through with that, although can't help but wonder if that was a mistake - or at the very least, premature.  But I'll go and see what happens.

I found the SWOE book to be very helpful in figuring out if my wife was BPD, it is an excellent beginner book on learning about BPD & NPD and the most basic ways to manage a BPD personality in your life.  Regarding couple's therapy, validate your partners feelings; however, do push back on any facts that are not true by stating as much (example:  "________ is not true").  When talking only use "I" statements, and avoid using the word "you" along with "but", "because", "except", etc.  You want to get your side of the story out, without be accusatory towards your partner.  Be calm, do not lash out, be the person who is the more reasonable one.  Don't be alarmed towards the end of the session or follow-on sessions if the therapist focuses most of their attention towards your partner and not you.

I was out last night with a few friends, and one of the girls hosted a group meditation session - there were 5 of us.  I soooo needed that.  It made me realize just how much energy this has been consuming.  It feels a bit like you're swimming and struggling to keep from going underwater ... but every now and then your head pops above the waves and you realize there's a whole other world out there.

Being with a pwBPD, takes an enormous amount of energy, too much energy - I find self-care to refill my cup/energy is so important to survive this kind of relationship and hopefully thrive.  I do like your swimming analogy which I will expand on, if you are with a pwBPD, and you are the lifeguard rescuing your partner, don't let your partner drown you, give your partner the tools (float/life ring) to grab on to, so they can help themselves without drowning you too.

Take care.

SD

[northerndude1]

Thank you, SD.  I'm sorry to hear about your situation.  I have been with my partner for a year, but do not live with her nor have children or really any other ties with her.  Nevertheless, over the course of the year, it has been rather stormy.

I'm sorry to hear your own situation, and I can totally empathize with you in terms of your kids - and just how much more difficult a situation that creates.  I agree with you in that it is not your kids' fault that your partner has a personality disorder.  I can understand your reluctance to leave.  But I'm sure that makes it  a very difficult journey for you.

As it turns out, my partner & I got together last Saturday, and ended up deciding to dissolve our relationship - more or less mutually (in truth it was probably mostly me, but she was more or less on board). 

I feel sad, but also feel a sense of relief and a sense of newfound freedom.  I truly wish her well - she did not ask for this.  But then again, I did not ask for it, either.

[thankful person]

Thank you, SD.  I'm sorry to hear about your situation.  I have been with my partner for a year, but do not live with her nor have children or really any other ties with her.  Nevertheless, over the course of the year, it has been rather stormy.

I'm sorry to hear your own situation, and I can totally empathize with you in terms of your kids - and just how much more difficult a situation that creates.  I agree with you in that it is not your kids' fault that your partner has a personality disorder.  I can understand your reluctance to leave.  But I'm sure that makes it  a very difficult journey for you.

As it turns out, my partner & I got together last Saturday, and ended up deciding to dissolve our relationship - more or less mutually (in truth it was probably mostly me, but she was more or less on board). 

I feel sad, but also feel a sense of relief and a sense of newfound freedom.  I truly wish her well - she did not ask for this.  But then again, I did not ask for it, either.

Hi northern dude, if you’re still around… we’re not allowed to encourage people to split up on the bettering board here. But I think we’re all rooting for you, as in… we love our partners and have reasons to stay with them… but lucky escape well done. I hope you won’t get sucked back into this relationship or into anything similar and I highly recommend you find a therapist who can help you understand why you ended up in such a toxic relationship and how to avoid it happening again in future. Best wishes!

[SaltyDawg]

Thank you, SD.  I'm sorry to hear about your situation.  I have been with my partner for a year, but do not live with her nor have children or really any other ties with her.  Nevertheless, over the course of the year, it has been rather stormy.

I am glad you do not have children with her.  You chose to be with your partner, and children that may result of that relationship is not their fault, and will only complicate matters.  You were/are rather fortunate to figure this out in the year.  My pwBPD, had me fooled for two years and 5 months, before she showed her true colors - even though looking back there were several  during the courtship period that I would now be able to recognize, if it happened to me again, I am a slow-learner, and it presented much differently than my previous borderline relationship, which became stormy so much sooner.

I'm sorry to hear your own situation, and I can totally empathize with you in terms of your kids - and just how much more difficult a situation that creates.  I agree with you in that it is not your kids' fault that your partner has a personality disorder.  I can understand your reluctance to leave.  But I'm sure that makes it  a very difficult journey for you.

Both of our kids are straight-A, honor roll types, as is my wife - ultra-high functioning.  My goal is to give them the best launch in life possible, maintain the peace in the home that is within my power of knowing what I can change and what I cannot.  Based on my wife's behaviors, it was better for me to help her regulate, through boundaries, in order to reduce the amount of stress in the family home.  More often than not, this is not the case.

As it turns out, my partner & I got together last Saturday, and ended up deciding to dissolve our relationship - more or less mutually (in truth it was probably mostly me, but she was more or less on board).

Since this is the 'bettering' board, advising or suggesting to 'run' or terminate the relationship, is not allowed, if this were on a different board, I would have suggested your course of action.  However, please be aware, many, not all pw BPD will attempt to recycle, and suck you back in to the relationship well after the dust has settled and they have said otherwise.  Based on personal experience and observation of others, this can happen anywhere from a few hours after the relations ends or it could be years - most of the recycles peak around 2 months after it ends.

I feel sad, but also feel a sense of relief and a sense of newfound freedom.  I truly wish her well - she did not ask for this.  But then again, I did not ask for it, either.

Yes, you are 'free'.  I know your heart is in the right place, and you are right you didn't ask for this, and you can only do what you feel is best for yourself, and your former partner as well.  You have set a firm boundary of not willing to accept this kind of treatment by her - I was able to do this with my first borderline relationship as it was overtly abusive towards me (with cheating, etc.).  However, my current relationship was much more subtle, and I didn't notice it engulfing me until it was way too late, and even then I still didn't recognize it until 18 years later when a therapist had to point it out to me.


You are still young, and I will pass on a very important piece of learned experience of mine, if you ever find yourself in this kind of relationship again, look at yourself, with a therapist, and what attracts this type of person to you, and you to them.

I wish you the best in life.  Take care with self-care.

SD

[northerndude1]

Thanks so much Salty, your comments are always very insightful and much appreciated.  I was married to a woman for 11 years and with her before that for 4.  Although I don't think she was BPD, she was extremely stubborn and was quite possibly NPD, it made trying to reason anything with her virtually impossible.  I eventually left that marriage.  I - like you - was super worried about the impact it would have on the kids, who were young at the time.  It turns out they took it very well (there are 3 of them) and we now have a great relationship.  I am closer to them than when I was married.  But I guess sometimes it doesn't go quite as well, esp if the Ex is acting horridly.

I'm glad you've been able to find a way to cope with your difficult marriage, and it sounds like the kids are doing Ok, probably in large parts because of your efforts to maintain the peace.  It's sad though you've found yourself having to make these Herculean efforts to do so - life is short - but I understand.

I was lying in bed this morning and realized, too, it's very possible she may come back, as you elude to.  We've had a couple of mini-breakups before, and this indeed has been her pattern.  It's strange though, unlike the times before where I sort of hoped she did - I really don't want that.  I hope she meets someone else.  It's a weird sensation when you want your Ex to find someone else.  I guess you know you're 'done' when you reach that point.

I will heed your advice and give some real thought about how I ended up being drawn to this.  You are the second person to have suggested I give that some thought.  I was having coffee with a woman-friend of mine on Saturday, and she suggested the very same thing.  I don't have an answer right now.  BP's and other personality disorders, I think, have this sort of soft, vulnerable, almost helpless side to them that seems to need saving ... I think that was a big part of it for me.  But it's an important question to explore.

Good luck, Salty.  Really.  You seem like a good guy, it's sad you've found yourself in the place you're in right now.  Whether you decide to stay, or perhaps one day decide to leave, I'm sure one day your children will grow up and really admire and cherish you.

[SaltyDawg]

ND,

I don't have an answer right now.  BP's and other personality disorders, I think, have this sort of soft, vulnerable, almost helpless side to them that seems to need saving ... I think that was a big part of it for me.  But it's an important question to explore.

I agree, that it is a very important question to explore.  You may want to start by looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savior_complex I know have this aspect to me, most of the time it is a good thing; however, in my personal life it often is not.

Good luck, Salty.  Really.  You seem like a good guy, it's sad you've found yourself in the place you're in right now.  Whether you decide to stay, or perhaps one day decide to leave, I'm sure one day your children will grow up and really admire and cherish you.

I also wish you the best of luck.  Take care.  I too hope my children will one day will admire and cheris what what I am doing for them; however, it will take them living on their own with their own relationships before they can really come to appreciate this fully.

SD

[northerndude1]

Hello,

I'm just writing a follow up to my post re. my pwBPD relationship, which ended about a month ago.  Since then, we have not had much contact.  My partner contacted me saying she liked some of my social media posts.  I didn't know how to respond to that and took a day to do so, saying basically I was confused by her reaching out because she had told me she didn't want to have any contact with me.  It's complicated, but clearly I offended her somehow.

I'm not sure if she ever got my message(s) - her social media presence has been extremely sporadic.  In any case, she has now blocked me on FB and I believe text / phone as well, and likely email.  Blocked me completely.  This has thrown me off guard, I didn't think anything I said was hugely insulting, though perhaps she took it that way.

I hate it when relationships end this way.  She is clearly upset about something and I had wanted to chat on the phone for a few minutes to try and just not leave things this way, with so much animosity.  But she's now blocked me from everything.  I can still send her a physical hard copy letter via post, but that's a bit of a last resort.

On top of that, she's signed up for social events that I doubt she would ever sign up for, just by virtue of the fact that I am going.  There is no one else going that she really knows other than me.

It's like her left hand is pushing me away and her right hand is trying to pull me in.

Going to this social event is going to be extremely awkward b.c. here she is having blocked me on all media, and yet she's going to this event, probably to somehow try and connect with me.  I have a feeling it is going to be horrid.  I think if I socialize with anyone else, she is going to take that as a complete rejection of her.  I am considering cancelling.  Which is absurd, but I am not sure what my options are.

Any thoughts / suggestions?  I find this complete blocking out of her life extremely difficult ... and to be frank, quite cruel.

[northerndude1]

Just to add to this post...

As often happens in life, once you post something, something changes which change the equation a little bit.  She hadn't blocked me, at least not on email, and she replied.  Her reply was actually quite warm and receptive, and she apologized for taking so long to reply; my email caught her off guard and she was a little bit shocked.

Anyways, all that to say, things are on slightly better terms than I had thought.  Being blocked or being ignored is such a horrible feeling, I am glad that was not the case.

I am going to just let things be for now, though.  I am glad though that things are better than what I had imagined.

[Pook075]

Any thoughts / suggestions?  I find this complete blocking out of her life extremely difficult ... and to be frank, quite cruel.

Hey Northern,

Try to see this from her perspective for a moment.  Been together a year, tried counseling, you called it quits.  Obviously she's hurt by that decision and trying to find her own path forward.

In any breakup, we all go through stages of emotion- sadness, anger, confusion, etc.  What you feel today is probably not the same thing you felt a week ago...or what you'll feel next week.  She's going through the same thing.

You're looking at the blocking as "she did this to me".  And maybe that's true.  But it's also possible that she did it to protect herself because she's hurting and doesn't know how to express it.  Maybe one day, she thought, "I don't want to talk to him anymore" and clicked a button or two, since it's so incredibly easy to block someone.

Would that be the only thing she feels though?  Of course not.  Like you, she's probably conflicted.  It's possible she signed up for events in the moment and forgot about them entirely...or has no intention of attending at all.  Or maybe you're right, she will show up and try to connect with you there.  Who knows. 

But you're thinking in absolutes about her intentions, even though your feelings are constantly changing during this process.  Hers are as well.  And she's probably thinking the same about you as she analyzes every interaction.

This is the "bettering" board where you'll get advice to try to reconcile your relationship.  Is that what you still want?

[SaltyDawg]

On top of that, she's signed up for social events that I doubt she would ever sign up for, just by virtue of the fact that I am going.  There is no one else going that she really knows other than me.

It's like her left hand is pushing me away and her right hand is trying to pull me in.

Going to this social event is going to be extremely awkward b.c. here she is having blocked me on all media, and yet she's going to this event, probably to somehow try and connect with me.  I have a feeling it is going to be horrid.  I think if I socialize with anyone else, she is going to take that as a complete rejection of her.  I am considering cancelling.  Which is absurd, but I am not sure what my options are.

Any thoughts / suggestions?  I find this complete blocking out of her life extremely difficult ... and to be frank, quite cruel.

Northern,

   Thank you for coming back and sharing an update with us.

   Pook has some really good advice and questions; so, I won't repeat much of it.

   Instead I will focus on what to do in those awkward social events that she has signed up for, and if she follows through and is physically present at one or more of the events that you have also signed up for.

   Since you are on the bettering board, I can only assume you want to reconnect with her; however, what you indicated I am not sure if that is your intent. 

   Northern, what do you want to do?  So do you socialize with others, or do you only socialize with her, and risk alienating yourself from the others?  You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it would seem how to navigate this situation is at a minimum uncomfortable for you, and perhaps even a bit overwhelming for you.

   Come up with a plan before you visit each social activities on what you are and are not willing to do to compromise what you want in order to appease your exgf, or is it more important to take care of yourself?  You need to do what is right for you.

   Take care & do self-care too.

SD

[northerndude1]

Thank you very much SD & Pook,

I am still fairly new to BPDFamily and did not realize that different boards have different intents.  No, my intention is not to reunite with her, so I apologize if my posting on this board conveyed otherwise.  But your thoughts and suggestions were helpful and helped ground me.

In terms of this specific upcoming event, I will see what I will do.  I can easily cancel this one time (these events happen all the time anyways - there will be others) as it is still pretty early in the game w.r.t. my Ex ... it might not be worth the upheaval - both in terms of my own emotions, but also in terms of if my Ex sees me talking to others and all of the fallout that comes out of that.

But obviously this is only a short term solution, I can't cancel my whole social life forever.  But it may be an option for the short term.

Thank you again.

[SaltyDawg]

I am still fairly new to BPDFamily and did not realize that different boards have different intents.  No, my intention is not to reunite with her, so I apologize if my posting on this board conveyed otherwise.  But your thoughts and suggestions were helpful and helped ground me.

Northern,

It sounds like you would like to have this moved to the 'Detaching and Learning' board, a moderator can make this move for you.

In terms of this specific upcoming event, I will see what I will do.  I can easily cancel this one time (these events happen all the time anyways - there will be others) as it is still pretty early in the game w.r.t. my Ex ... it might not be worth the upheaval - both in terms of my own emotions, but also in terms of if my Ex sees me talking to others and all of the fallout that comes out of that.

But obviously this is only a short term solution, I can't cancel my whole social life forever.  But it may be an option for the short term.

Your ex may not even go to those functions now that you are broken up, and just hasn't changed her status on social media.  You could always show up, and if you see her, make a tactful exit minimizing contact with your ex to minimize your own emotional response.  You should not be held hostage to her actions, especially as you indicated that she normally would not do this activity unless you were there.  Since she would not normally do this activity, unless you were there, it is on her, not you, how it would affect her emotionally.  What you have shared shows that you are very thoughtful and empathetic; however, you should not let her behaviors dictate yours if they are in conflict.  While I do not condone flaunting this kind of behavior, I also urge you not to 'cancel' your social life either - perhaps somewhere in the middle, if she doesn't show, you are unrestricted, and if she does show, be mindful of her emotions to the point of not causing a scene, but I would consider both your feeling and hers only if it becomes an issue and not focus on the 'what if's', otherwise, try not to let it bother you, if she is not there.

Take care.

SD