Starting a tough conversation with your BPD partner

[campbembpd]

I've been having anxiety for many months of the upcoming conversation I need to have with my uBPDw about finances. This may happen very soon now, I keep putting it off and thought we wouldn't really 'need' to do it for another month

In a nutshell my uBPDw expects me to pay for everything. Everytime over the past 15 years that there was a financial obligation put onto her its gone very very bad. She works p/t private consulting so her income is erratic at times but overall makes a very decent income. She just received a contract that will provide regular hours weekly and will probably double her income.

My income barely pays for what we need week to week. I've posted elsewhere that she's pretty high maintenance and has a lot of expectations - going out multiple times a week, hates being home on the weekends. With inflation over the past few years and some other added expenses the past 6 months we're using the credit cards weekly.

So I'm a numbers guy, I have a business and financial background so it's easy for me to look at spreadsheets and know what we need to do. With my wife's new job and part of her private consulting there is an amount I/we need from her income in order to survive and get out of debt. But we can do it and there should be plenty for her spending on what she wants (nevermind I currently have $0 for myself).

Despite me knowing I'm putting in 100% of my income into us, our kids, and maybe a few hundred dollars a year on 'me'. I'm asking her to put in much more then she's contributing now (but still only around 70%), I know this is going to be bad. I feel this is stupid, that I have to go through all this for what should be a normal conversation with your partner. This has to be done, we have to work together, both contribute financially and if I was dealing with any sane person I wouldn't have this much heartburn about it and we could talk like adults. But that isn't the case.

I'm just trying to think of any way to soften the blow. I've decided I want to give her some time like propose that we start this new budget in 6-8 weeks so she has time to adjust and prepare but I'm really at a loss as to how this can go anyway but bring out the rage monster.

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[Pook075]

That's a difficult conversation for any marriage and I have a cousin going through the exact same situation now.  As Americans, we love living above our means in the constant pursuit of "stuff".

I think you have a good plan except for the part where you contribute 100% of your income to bills while she contributes much less.  It sounds like she's the bread-winner and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you're the finance one of the relationship then you must take control.  However, this doesn't have to be a demand- (aka, she needs to pay more bills).  Instead, it can be a conversation about the future and the need to get out of debt to keep your lifestyle long-term.

[campbembpd]

That's a difficult conversation for any marriage and I have a cousin going through the exact same situation now.  As Americans, we love living above our means in the constant pursuit of "stuff".

I think you have a good plan except for the part where you contribute 100% of your income to bills while she contributes much less.  It sounds like she's the bread-winner and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you're the finance one of the relationship then you must take control.  However, this doesn't have to be a demand- (aka, she needs to pay more bills).  Instead, it can be a conversation about the future and the need to get out of debt to keep your lifestyle long-term.

Thanks for the notes. I have been the breadwinner, she's chosen to work p/t for many years. I used to earn enough to support us both so she didn't have to work for those years. She did but it was always just her 'play' money and usually < 5 hours a week. She eventually did get a p/t job for about a year before we moved out of state. Then we moved and she didn't work at all for a year before starting up her private consulting which is now where we're at. But she still wants this to be her 'play' money. Even though to put it in context she could make close or exceed 6 figures. She's much more concerned with her having the money to do the things she wants to do then on the household...

It's not about a demand situation really. Our budget laid out shows where we're over-spending and how much we're short. It's really more about laying out the situation for her (kindly as always) and express we need help in our finances so we can make ends meet. If we can't do that then we need to radically change our life, our spending and very likely relocate because I'm putting everything in and it's not enough.

She's never done good with financial talks or spreadsheets so I'm working on making it as simple as possible. I'm thinking to lay it out for her so she can see every item that's budgeted and let her make adjustments if she needs. However there is almost no adjustments without major change, maybe a few streaming services. Otherwise the only reductions are to remove the things she loves to do: eating out less, drink less, travel less, etc. But at least I can lay it out so she can see as plainly as possible.

Am I the only one that just suffers like this, dreading certain conversations? Even ones that are necessary? I know finances can be hard for anyone but it seems crazy to me that I spend this much energy in this space. And still unsure of how to start it. It's a huge fear/anxiety driven problem... 

[kells76]

this doesn't have to be a demand- (aka, she needs to pay more bills).  Instead, it can be a conversation about the future and the need to get out of debt to keep your lifestyle long-term.

That could be a good starting place. I wonder if you're feeling some pressure or anxiety about "having to work it all out in one conversation"?

Does she know yet that you want to talk about finances?

Can you start small -- have your first question be "hey babe, when's a good time for you to check in about the budget -- I have Friday at 5 and Saturday at 8 open, either of those good or something else better?"

See if you can get agreement on "logistics" about having the conversation first. That builds a foundation of "we had an experience of being on the same page".

...

I wonder if you can plan ahead for a "quit while we're ahead" mentality. Basically -- can you let go of "having to" work everything out in one conversation, and instead pay attention to the tone/vibe of the conversation while you're in it. Are things going neutrally and/or positively? Can you get agreement about anything -- even something like "we both agree that the budget is an issue" or "we both agree that financially, things as they are aren't working for us" (without having to delve into why there is a problem, which you may not agree on). As long as things keep going neutral/positively, maybe keep working. If it goes longer than some set amount of time (i.e. I wouldn't recommend this be a multi-hour deal) or if anyone starts to dysregulate, get big emotions, get distracted, etc, take the lead in wrapping it up: "It feels good that we're on the same page that we want to change the budget. I have a lot to think about and am gonna pause for now, does Sunday or Monday work better for you to keep going?"

It's OK to break it down into smaller, bite-size conversations instead of one big one. I know my H would get pretty overwhelmed with budget stuff after about 30 minutes (and neither of us have a PD).

...

In terms of her contributing some of her income to household/shared expenses, you can ask her to do so, but none of us can control what someone else does. If she declines to participate, you may need to find some other ways to stay afloat that don't depend on her cooperation. When asking someone else to do/not do something, you can try the DEARMAN approach -- could be worth a look, and could give you some structure for the interaction that may help you feel more confident.

[Pook075]

Am I the only one that just suffers like this, dreading certain conversations? Even ones that are necessary? I know finances can be hard for anyone but it seems crazy to me that I spend this much energy in this space. And still unsure of how to start it. It's a huge fear/anxiety driven problem... 

It's very common to dread conversations that could go badly; I have a BPD adult kid and BPD ex-wife, so I can certainly relate in many ways.  My wife had a similar work history and did simply what interested her, although she would contribute to the bills whenever I asked.  Both of them are terrible with money though and find ways to spend it rapidly, no matter how much they have.

Where to start is pretty simple- start where you started with us.  Debt is mounting and you're concerned for the family's financial future.  Would she be up to making some financial adjustments to contribute more?

Let's say it goes horrible- the worst possible outcome.  It's her money, you're being a jerk, yadda yadda.  What do you do then?  

Well, you stick to your boundaries while also listening to her and affirming how she feels.  If she doesn't want to contribute more, no problem.  Don't argue.  Now the conversation shifts- where can we cut back since there's expenses coming up that you can't afford? (since you're paying for everything and have nothing left over)

When I had to have difficult conversations with my wife more recently, I would let her make 100% of the decisions.  We can do option #1 and this would happen....or option #2 and this happens.  Can you think of an option 3, because I can't.  Okay, that could be an option too...which do you think we should choose?  There's been a few situations where every option stunk, but I'd explain that it couldn't be all on me and we'd have to do something.  By framing the conversation that way and including her...ultimately letting her decide the path...it was a calm, peaceful conversation.

I hope that helps!

[thankful person]

Campembpd,

You’re certainly not alone in dreading certain conversations that should be straight forward. I suffer from severe anxiety and I have high blood pressure and I can literally feel my heart tightening but I struggle to calm myself and deep breathing doesn’t seem to help. Sometimes these worries keep me awake at night. In my case the financial issues are massive too except I’m the only one working while dbpdw raises our little ones. I give her money weekly for shopping and other expenses. But she’s always spending using her overdraft and credit cards and then I end up buying groceries and stuff for the kids as well as having given her the money already. I try to save but end up needing it to pay the bills. I am very frugal and I know I could live off rice or whatever for a week and save lots of money if I had to. I yearn for a bygone era where the money you had was the finite packet of cash you just earned at work. Ironically the other conversation I hate having is anything to do with me taking on work or giving time to my work. Hmm. She wants me to make more money. But she does not want me to work more. Anything to do with me and the kids and potentially her seeing my family is also a hard one. And in fact she often complains when I talk about the kids because “You never talk about us” but I really don’t know what she means by this (yes I have asked but she doesn’t seem to know either).. I hope it goes well for you anyway. I’m just wishing my wife would stop getting given more credit but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Before we sold our last home, she had all her debts taken over by a couple of companies because she said she could only afford to pay back £1 each month. She lamented that the government would not pay her debts with an IVA because we jointly own a house bought using my family’s money. I couldn’t believe that even being “in an arrangement” with her creditors, she was still able to successfully get more credit cards. I don’t know if this problem is worse in the UK than USA.

[zondolit]

Talking finances with my BPD/NPD husband was a terrible experience--so bad I just ended up avoiding it. In my case, I earned the money and he spent and lost it. I kept making myself smaller and smaller in the sense I felt I could spend nothing on myself. After bills and his "needs" were met, there just wasn't anything left for me.

At the root of it was shame. My husband was ashamed he made less than me or made no money or lost money on his (so-called) business. I hated the feeling I had so little say in the budget. Yet he insisted I had all the say! It was confounding.

I wonder if you might bring in a neutral third party to help? This could be either a financial advisor--they look at your financial state and help you with long-term planning and goals--or a couples therapist. One couples therapist told us 1) you must have a budget--so she normalized this, or tried to--and 2) each partner should get some money they can spend without needing any approval or oversight of the other person.

[Notwendy]

While numbers and logic are a reasonable approach to managing money, this kind of spending and distributing funds is emotionally driven.

Talking and trying to reason with my BPD mother have not been effective. I and several other family members have tried. She has spent most of the funds and resources my father has left her.

I have seen where some posters keep some money in a separate account that their BPD spouse can't access but that also causes marital difficulties, but it may be the only way to prevent larger financial problems.

It's a difficult situation.