Help with Bettering Myself/Relationship (Married 11 years to uBPD Wife)

[Depression = 72% of members]

First post... hard to believe I'm here, but I do find myself grateful that a community like this exists.

A little about myself and situation:  I've been married to my undiagnosed wife for about a decade.  We got married shortly after college and things were rocky in all of the classic borderline ways.  One thing that was missing, however, was a honeymoon/love bombing period.  That really never happened and I think it could be because we had been close friends for a number of years before we started dating/engaged/married so the comfort level and intimacy level was already there.  Our honeymoon had lots of turmoil from what I'm able to even remember of it.  Also our first years of marriage were spent away from a stable, loving community that we had for some years.

During these early years of marriage I was basically emotionally and sexually abused constantly.  If we went to bed without having had sex after a few minutes of heads on the pillow she'd be starting a fight.  "You aren't even going to get close to me right now!?"   If I said I wasn't in the mood then I'd be up until the wee hours of the morning trying to assure her that I loved her and wanted to be with her even though I didn't want to have sex and she'd go into veiled (or sometimes unveiled) threats to commit suicide.  Sometimes even if we did have sex we would still have these emotionally volatile "conversations" deep into the morning.  She was a student, but I still had to work very early in the morning and at the time it was often physical labor that I had to do. I was just constantly exhausted, sleep deprived, and depressed.  What made it worse is that she would act like nothing had happened at all the next morning.  And I felt like I had been hit by a train.  This trained me to really hate having sex with her, but I did it anyways in an attempt to appease her.

Any time we had long car rides they'd turn into similar hours-long, emotionally-volatile, circular "conversations."  Sometimes she would talk about how she needed to feel affirmed in our marriage and she'd talk about how she really liked it when she got male attention (not from me).  She would express concern that she was "afraid" of going outside of our marriage to get those needs fulfilled.  To my knowledge she never did cheat on me, but I guess I still wonder if that's ever happened given how often she would talk about this kind of thing.

About 6 years into our marriage I got involved with a woman I worked with and had an emotional affair with her.  We never had sex, but talked about it and we also kissed one time.  I really really wanted to run away with this woman and start a new life and we were starting to make plans to.  I was pretty convinced my life would be better with her and although I don't regret making the decision to confess this to my wife and pursue marriage counseling, I still feel like I would have been happier if I had gone through with the affair (even after years of individual and marriage counseling).  I now understand this emotional affair to have been a kind of escape from my marriage and circumstances with my wife.

We did marriage counseling and individual counseling for a number of years after this.  My wife has been in weekly individual and weekly group therapy for 4 or 5 years at this point.  We use the same counselor for individual and marriage counseling and in hindsight I don't believe this was a very good idea.  At the time things were pretty urgent for us, though, and the counselor we were using made the decision to see us both since in my area counselors often have 6 month waiting lists.  It wasn't until a few years of counseling that I started to realize my wife might primarily be the issue in our relationship.  I didn't share the details of the abuse I had endured until my second round of individual counseling with this counselor and I realize now how damaging the abuse was that it was suppressed in my consciousness for all this time and took a lot of time and a sense of safety for it to surface.  I think this probably would have happened sooner if I had been using a different counselor.

Currently my wife and I are in individual counseling only and I have brought up my wife having BPD with my counselor.  He said he believed all I was saying about her BPD behaviors and that for obvious reasons he couldn't provide that diagnosis with me.  But he definitely didn't deny that she has it or try to convince me otherwise.  I have been reading all I can about BPD and understanding her and that has perhaps been helpful, but had become almost an obsession for a time.  I've only just recently crossed the line of understanding that my main goal is that I need to start working on myself since I know I wont be able to change my wife.  Currently my wife works only two days a week, but she does take care of most of the around-the-house work.  We are infertile (which I am now grateful for on some level) and that has been really hard for her.  I see that I have some traits of codependency and would like to work on that as well as pursuing my own desires in life.  I just don't really know how to start that process as change really destabilizes my wife.

A note on something I left out:  We have great community, but my wife is undiagnosed quiet BPD so nobody has seen these behaviors in her adult life except for me.  Her parents definitely saw these behaviors in her adolescence though.  Everybody thinks she is so so wonderful (and she really is), but its hard existing in this community feeling like I'm completely unseen in all of this.  It can really make things feel fake.  I've started to talk about all of this with close friends of mine and that has been really helpful.

Anyways, thought I'd share this story and just try and be a part of this community.  Thanks if you read it and I'd be glad to answer any question you might have.

[SwineMan]

First post... hard to believe I'm here, but I do find myself grateful that a community like this exists.

A little about myself and situation:  I've been married to my undiagnosed wife for about a decade.  We got married shortly after college and things were rocky in all of the classic borderline ways.  One thing that was missing, however, was a honeymoon/love bombing period.  That really never happened and I think it could be because we had been close friends for a number of years before we started dating/engaged/married so the comfort level and intimacy level was already there.  Our honeymoon had lots of turmoil from what I'm able to even remember of it.  Also our first years of marriage were spent away from a stable, loving community that we had for some years.

During these early years of marriage I was basically emotionally and sexually abused constantly.  If we went to bed without having had sex after a few minutes of heads on the pillow she'd be starting a fight.  "You aren't even going to get close to me right now!?"   If I said I wasn't in the mood then I'd be up until the wee hours of the morning trying to assure her that I loved her and wanted to be with her even though I didn't want to have sex and she'd go into veiled (or sometimes unveiled) threats to commit suicide.  Sometimes even if we did have sex we would still have these emotionally volatile "conversations" deep into the morning.  She was a student, but I still had to work very early in the morning and at the time it was often physical labor that I had to do. I was just constantly exhausted, sleep deprived, and depressed.  What made it worse is that she would act like nothing had happened at all the next morning.  And I felt like I had been hit by a train.  This trained me to really hate having sex with her, but I did it anyways in an attempt to appease her.

Any time we had long car rides they'd turn into similar hours-long, emotionally-volatile, circular "conversations."  Sometimes she would talk about how she needed to feel affirmed in our marriage and she'd talk about how she really liked it when she got male attention (not from me).  She would express concern that she was "afraid" of going outside of our marriage to get those needs fulfilled.  To my knowledge she never did cheat on me, but I guess I still wonder if that's ever happened given how often she would talk about this kind of thing.

About 6 years into our marriage I got involved with a woman I worked with and had an emotional affair with her.  We never had sex, but talked about it and we also kissed one time.  I really really wanted to run away with this woman and start a new life and we were starting to make plans to.  I was pretty convinced my life would be better with her and although I don't regret making the decision to confess this to my wife and pursue marriage counseling, I still feel like I would have been happier if I had gone through with the affair (even after years of individual and marriage counseling).  I now understand this emotional affair to have been a kind of escape from my marriage and circumstances with my wife.

We did marriage counseling and individual counseling for a number of years after this.  My wife has been in weekly individual and weekly group therapy for 4 or 5 years at this point.  We use the same counselor for individual and marriage counseling and in hindsight I don't believe this was a very good idea.  At the time things were pretty urgent for us, though, and the counselor we were using made the decision to see us both since in my area counselors often have 6 month waiting lists.  It wasn't until a few years of counseling that I started to realize my wife might primarily be the issue in our relationship.  I didn't share the details of the abuse I had endured until my second round of individual counseling with this counselor and I realize now how damaging the abuse was that it was suppressed in my consciousness for all this time and took a lot of time and a sense of safety for it to surface.  I think this probably would have happened sooner if I had been using a different counselor.

Currently my wife and I are in individual counseling only and I have brought up my wife having BPD with my counselor.  He said he believed all I was saying about her BPD behaviors and that for obvious reasons he couldn't provide that diagnosis with me.  But he definitely didn't deny that she has it or try to convince me otherwise.  I have been reading all I can about BPD and understanding her and that has perhaps been helpful, but had become almost an obsession for a time.  I've only just recently crossed the line of understanding that my main goal is that I need to start working on myself since I know I wont be able to change my wife.  Currently my wife works only two days a week, but she does take care of most of the around-the-house work.  We are infertile (which I am now grateful for on some level) and that has been really hard for her.  I see that I have some traits of codependency and would like to work on that as well as pursuing my own desires in life.  I just don't really know how to start that process as change really destabilizes my wife.

A note on something I left out:  We have great community, but my wife is undiagnosed quiet BPD so nobody has seen these behaviors in her adult life except for me.  Her parents definitely saw these behaviors in her adolescence though.  Everybody thinks she is so so wonderful (and she really is), but its hard existing in this community feeling like I'm completely unseen in all of this.  It can really make things feel fake.  I've started to talk about all of this with close friends of mine and that has been really helpful.

Anyways, thought I'd share this story and just try and be a part of this community.  Thanks if you read it and I'd be glad to answer any question you might have.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jabiru]

Hi and welcome Many of us here can identify with your story. Be sure to check the Tips menu at the top of the page. Personally, it was life changing to read the books Stop Walking on Eggshells to learn more about my uBPD wife's condition and Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist to get my life back. Reading others' stories here also helps.

I see that I have some traits of codependency and would like to work on that as well as pursuing my own desires in life.  I just don't really know how to start that process as change really destabilizes my wife.

That's great that you're looking after yourself. Try with some small boundaries to protect yourself and work your way up. It may rock the boat some but it should be worth it in the long term. Thoughts?

[SwineMan]

Appreciate the reply here.  Thankfully, with the help of my counselor, we started implementing some boundaries about 6 months ago and its been very helpful.  I'm not sure how that would have gone if we didn't have a third party helping out.  As a part of that I looped my pastor into things at the time, asking if I could call him if things escalated to the point of suicidal threats/beyond what I felt like I could handle.  Since doing this there has only been one severe episode and she didn't threaten suicide during it, but she did cross boundaries (continued to have circular arguments after I said let's continue this conversation another time/in marriage counseling). I was in the car with her so it wasn't like I could just walk away.

I need to go ahead and pick up those books.  I've been struggling with how to keep something like that discrete, so I've mostly stuck to internet resources, but these are so  highly praised that I think I'll go ahead and find a way to get them.  I'll try and visit the library today.

Also, I saw another comment on here that got moderated as it violated the rule about suggesting leaving (I presume).  I just wanted to say even though I forget the user that posted that I appreciated the content there and for sharing your story also.  I don't know if you have access to what you wrote, but maybe you can repost it with that part omitted.

[rattled64]

A note on something I left out:  We have great community, but my wife is undiagnosed quiet BPD so nobody has seen these behaviors in her adult life except for me.  Her parents definitely saw these behaviors in her adolescence though.  Everybody thinks she is so so wonderful (and she really is), but its hard existing in this community feeling like I'm completely unseen in all of this.  It can really make things feel fake.  I've started to talk about all of this with close friends of mine and that has been really helpful.

This is the first time I have seen the phrase "quiet BPD" but it fits my pwuBPD so well. When she is not in an episode, or even when she is and she is around others, she is the most caring and lovely person. It really strikes me most when our relationship is in the toilet and she is able to pull it together just fine in relation to everyone else. I am just starting to look for support and to try to carve off some emotional energy that she cannot consume in order to develop these relationships.

[SwineMan]

This is the first time I have seen the phrase "quiet BPD"...

Yeah it also goes by the name "discouraged borderline" as well in case searching on that helps too.  I found that using "quiet" as a search term in the bpd and bpdlovedones subreddits was helpful in understanding my wife a lot more. 

She clearly meets almost all of the criteria of the dsm for BPD, but she always has some level of self-control that keeps her from doing something that would be "over the line" and get her in trouble (having police called or looping a support person in or making a scene in public, etc.) even though I can tell now that she is clearly outside of herself when she is having an episode and just circularly arguing in a highly activated spiraling state that there is no extracting her from.

I am just starting to look for support and to try to carve off some emotional energy that she cannot consume in order to develop these relationships.

I just want to encourage you to do exactly this.  I know its so hard to extract yourself to do this, but you are now armed with the knowledge that you operate based on reality.  Your pwuBPD doesn't operate on these same terms which means that when you do perfectly reasonable things, like take time to develop supportive relationships outside of your marriage, it can be perceived by them as abandonment.  This is not something for you to manage and it's something I encourage you to pursue no matter the relational collateral with your loved one. 

For me this has looked like, among other things, "Every Monday night I'm going to be getting together with a group of friends to simply have a night out and enjoy."

Finding healthy ways of coping and living your life is the best thing you can do for yourself and for your pwuBPD.  If you are sacrificing your own health to enable her unhealthy way of living its harmful to the both of you.

[kells76]

Hi SwineMan, adding my to the others.

Good to hear you're interested in working on yourself and your contribution to the relationship dynamic. Accepting that we can't change how our partners feel, what they say, or what they do, can be a healthy foundation for actual improvement. Kind of like -- even though we can't reach in and pull a lever in our partner's head to change things, we can change our part of the relational dynamic, which inherently changes things -- without anyone else needing to cooperate or agree.

I noticed this part of your intro:

Currently my wife and I are in individual counseling only and I have brought up my wife having BPD with my counselor.  He said he believed all I was saying about her BPD behaviors and that for obvious reasons he couldn't provide that diagnosis with me.  But he definitely didn't deny that she has it or try to convince me otherwise.  I have been reading all I can about BPD and understanding her and that has perhaps been helpful, but had become almost an obsession for a time.  I've only just recently crossed the line of understanding that my main goal is that I need to start working on myself since I know I wont be able to change my wife.  Currently my wife works only two days a week, but she does take care of most of the around-the-house work.  We are infertile (which I am now grateful for on some level) and that has been really hard for her.  I see that I have some traits of codependency and would like to work on that as well as pursuing my own desires in life.  I just don't really know how to start that process as change really destabilizes my wife.

What traits and behaviors do you have that you would call codependent?

How has this gone so far:

For me this has looked like, among other things, "Every Monday night I'm going to be getting together with a group of friends to simply have a night out and enjoy."

Finding healthy ways of coping and living your life is the best thing you can do for yourself and for your pwuBPD.  If you are sacrificing your own health to enable her unhealthy way of living its harmful to the both of you.