What to do with my ex son

[ForeverDad]

I spoke with the pediatrician when my son was about 2 years old, I saw what I felt could have been autistic manifestations. He was slow to talk (his first sentence was two words "mommy {feels} bad" after she had been on a tirade and left to the guest room, slamming the door).  Also, he avoided looking me in the eyes.  Pediatrician wasn't concerned but he did offer to give my spouse some names of counselors which she of course vehemently refused.

What can't be quantified is how much your ex's discord has impacted him.

My ex is 43 and her symptoms are still the same since I met her at at 31. According to her family she was a lot worse prior to that.

Did it get better to deal with in her 50s, 60s, 70s or just different challenges but just as difficult? I'm interested as I would like to have an insight so I can advise her son.

It has often been generalized BPD gets better (less bad) as the person ages.  Around here there's a bit of skepticism - is it just me? -about that.  Of course every person is different and BPD is a range of behavior patterns.

I wonder, might her family say it's not as bad as it once was because she was not in the middle of their lives as she was before?  BPD is a disorder most evident and most impactful in close relationships and if in later years there was greater distance then it could be that observers probably should conclude they didn't have as much exposure to her and her to them.

My ex-spouse was quite obstructive and sabotaging in the final couple years of our marriage and even more so during our separation, divorce and post-divorce.  *Custody* and control too were the big issues.  She had huge entitlement.  As our Custody Evaluator stated, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  Years later when I finally had majority time her entitlement balloon deflated a bit, enough so the order worked and we didn't return to family court.

Son grew up and aged out of the court system.  He lives with me and I have had much less contact with her once the custody issues were moot.  But is she better?  I really don't think so.  So far as I am aware she has always refused counseling or therapy.  But the animosity is pretty much gone, though lurking just below the surface for whenever I trigger her.

[Brokenmind]

Hi LL

Do you want to get back together with her and being in contact with S15 could jeopardize that?

What is the risky position you're hoping to avoid?

I can (with confidence) that I don’t want to be back with her. Absolutely not. I’m still processing the abuse and shame I feel and anger at what I gave up (mainly myself) for her.

The risky position is that she has already accused me of threatening her which her son saw the lie. If she found out I was communicating with S15 she would contact the police as she doesn’t want me communicating with him.

It’s all in texts, no phone calls, so it’s all in black and white  and he is the one who texts me mainly but I don’t want the hassle of having to explain myself.

[Brokenmind]

What can't be quantified is how much your ex's discord has impacted him.

I can see this has impacted him hugely but I’m not sure if it’s a case of mirroring her behaviours  or not. For example he doesn’t have any friends (not sure given he is home schooled) and has become obsessed with this girl he talking to online He showed a lot of black and white thinking.

It has often been generalized BPD gets better (less bad) as the person ages.  Around here there's a bit of skepticism - is it just me? -about that.  Of course every person is different and BPD is a range of behavior patterns.

I wonder, might her family say it's not as bad as it once was because she was not in the middle of their lives as she was before?  BPD is a disorder most evident and most impactful in close relationships and if in later years there was greater distance then it could be that observers probably should conclude they didn't have as much exposure to her and her to them.

This is what I thought and if I’m honest kind was ruminating a lot about at the start of the break up. Will she be better with someone else. Will someone else get her best side (idealisation) and none of the bad or not be abusive to her next partner.

From what I shave heard from her son, it’s a no. She is still the same rageful person but in his words, she doesn’t show this to her partner but only at home with him and everyone and everything else. She is obviously going through
The idealisation stage with him but does the same rages against him when talking about him to her son.

She did the same with me at the start and when I caught her cheating after 4 months it changed to her being needy and paranoid and jealous.

I think over the 12 years I was with her (she was 31 to 43) I  noticed no change other than when she split on me 7 years and started cheating again. She didn’t have that same fear of abandonment as she had prior to that and after we got back things were never the same again and it got even more toxic than ever.

But is she better?  I really don't think so.  So far as I am aware she has always refused counseling or therapy.  But the animosity is pretty much gone, though lurking just below the surface for whenever I trigger her.

I’m sorry to hear that FD. Mine attended therapy for short burst away falling out with her therapist even accusing one of flirting with her. She found a “child” therapist which suited her and it was this therapist that diagnosed her with BPD. She got annoyed and stopped going.

Do you mind if I ask how old your ex is? My hope is that her son will come to live with me, especially if it gets serious with her partner and moves country.

My fear is that I will always have her in my life through her son and she will always get triggered by me and I I’ll have her cloud over me.

But for her son I’m willing to do that. I know there is no going back and the thought triggers me alone. I just want what’s best for him. I willing participated in that relationship and I take ownership but her son never had a choice in this so I want to do what’s best for him.

[Notwendy]

I can see this has impacted him hugely but I’m not sure if it’s a case of mirroring her behaviours  or not. For example he doesn’t have any friends (not sure given he is home schooled) and has become obsessed with this girl he talking to online He showed a lot of black and white thinking.

This is what I thought and if I’m honest kind was ruminating a lot about at the start of the break up. Will she be better with someone else. Will someone else get her best side (idealisation) and none of the bad or not be abusive to her next partner.

From what I shave heard from her son, it’s a no. She is still the same rageful person but in his words, she doesn’t show this to her partner but only at home with him and everyone and everything else. She is obviously going through
The idealisation stage with him but does the same rages against him when talking about him to her son.

She did the same with me at the start and when I caught her cheating after 4 months it changed to her being needy and paranoid and jealous.

Do you mind if I ask how old your ex is? My hope is that her son will come to live with me, especially if it gets serious with her partner and moves country.

My fear is that I will always have her in my life through her son and she will always get triggered by me and I I’ll have her cloud over me.

But for her son I’m willing to do that. I know there is no going back and the thought triggers me alone. I just want what’s best for him. I willing participated in that relationship and I take ownership but her son never had a choice in this so I want to do what’s best for him.

First of all- no- nobody will get only the "best" of her. They may get the idealization stage for a while- but BPD affects all relationships- you see this with her son. She may be "triggered" by you but it's not all about you- it's that BPD affects the most intimate relationships more- partners and then immediate family. If someone else is in that position, they would "trigger" her.

In a different situation but similar idea- BPD mother blamed me for the issues between my parents when I was a teen. I believed that when I went off to college- they would be fine together. Like you imagine your ex would be better with someone else because she blames you. A younger sibling told me that wasn't true. The dynamics beween my parents didn't change.

It's hard to know which of your son's behaviors are related to being on the spectrum or being around his BPD mother, and possibly both. Being home schooled, he may not have made a lot of friends if his mother didn't involve him in group activities.

the other hand, social isolation, being fixated on someone or something, and black and white thinking could be due to being on the spectrum.

As to if he has BPD or not, I think that would be hard to say with all the other influences going on. Moody teen agers can have emotional mood swings too. Mirroring is possible. There are some behaviors I recognize as learned behaviors from growing up with a BPD mother and also from my father- I learned some of his co-dependent behaviors, but learned behaviors can be "un-learned". Children learn behaviors from their parents but you have been a positive role model- they learn positive behaviors too.

I hope he does live with you after high school. I think it would be good for him to have some stability, adult interaction, and if he needs it- some time to grow - socially and emotionally and catch up academically if needed. You can assess what he needs in terms of counseling, social interactions, and schooling/tutoring then.

[livednlearned]

If she found out I was communicating with S15 she would contact the police as she doesn’t want me communicating with him.

It’s all in texts, no phone calls, so it’s all in black and white  and he is the one who texts me mainly but I don’t want the hassle of having to explain myself.

You're allowed to pay for his classes but not text him?

[Brokenmind]

Hi NotWendy

Again thank you for the replies

 

If someone else is in that position, they would "trigger" her.

I have to admit I was thinking this soon after the break up. But I do feel I have come to that point where I’m indifferent to whether they work or not and unless she acknowledges and goes therapy it will happen again. But I finally got up the pint where to me it’s none of my business, only her son is.

In a different situation but similar idea- BPD mother blamed me for the issues between my parents when I was a teen.

I’m so sorry you went through that. For her son she was the same. I used to go ballistic when she would shout at him that he ruined her life, or her figure or even her breasts which was the most ridiculous one. She would then after wards or the next day smother him with love but also in an unhealthy way - lay in his bed hugging him for hours almost like he is a new born baby

 

Being home schooled, he may not have made a lot of friends if his mother didn't involve him in group activities.

The problem was even at school he found it difficult and would sometimes try and force others to be his friend which broke my heart when i was told by the school. He improved as the years went on and had 3 friends but would constantly fall out with them.

I hope he does live with you after high school. I think it would be good for him to have some stability, adult interaction, and if he needs it- some time to grow - socially and emotionally and catch up academically if needed. You can assess what he needs in terms of counseling, social interactions, and schooling/tutoring then.

I hope so too NW, I’m starting to get my life back together with my career and I know I can provide him with that stability and I love him so I will do all I can for him

Thank you so much for this it has really helped.

[Brokenmind]

Hi LL

You're allowed to pay for his classes but not text him?

Don’t get me started! 

So, up until December we were living apart but still together so I was paying for everything. I found out she cheated on December and since I sent her a text telling her I knew she was in America and seeing someone, she ghosted me since. So I’ve texted her that I only want to see her son and have a relationship with him and I’ve had absolutely no reply .

It was her son who texted me since  then. So I’ve not even had the courtesy of a reply on her son let alone a conversation about anything else.

[EyesUp]

You're allowed to pay for his classes but not text him?

I noted that, too.  It's similar to aspects of my experience:

My uBPDxw continued to use my credit card the day after we signed stipulations that explicitly prohibited it... Let's just say: When I raised the issue, the way she responded indicated that she didn't see a problem with violating the terms of the agreement that she had just signed.

Even today, my uBPDxw asks me to pay for birthday parties that she explicitly precludes me from attending.

Back to BMind, I have no idea how this would be viewed in the UK.  My sense is that he's already told us: In the absence of paternity or something that constitutes an agreement, he's in a precarious position.

Continuing to pay reinforces a sort of status-quo, and demonstrates a financial commitment (in the US, financial aspects of divorce and custody are given significant attention). This cuts both ways:  Paying may both enable BMind to remain engaged somehow, while also potentially establishing a liability to continue paying. Again, this speculation may be moot because there is no paternity and no agreement - only unilateral disagreement, in which mom holds all the cards...

BMind, please remind us:  Have you explored your legal options? Do you have a legal counselor who can advise you on the rights of non-paternal caregivers in the UK?  I imagine that you're not the first "dad" in a situation like this.

Either way, a lot of us can appreciate the emotional stress - on top of the PD dynamics in your situation.  Hope you're doing well this week...

[kells76]

So, up until December we were living apart but still together so I was paying for everything. I found out she cheated on December and since I sent her a text telling her I knew she was in America and seeing someone, she ghosted me since. So I’ve texted her that I only want to see her son and have a relationship with him and I’ve had absolutely no reply .

It was her son who texted me since  then. So I’ve not even had the courtesy of a reply on her son let alone a conversation about anything else.

I feel for you about the sense of precariousness -- that if you do "one thing wrong", though it isn't clear what, she'll "punish" you by withholding the kids.

That being said -- she may be preoccupied with her new relationship at the moment.

Has she ever explicitly communicated in writing "don't contact my son"?

Is part of your fear that if you're more assertive (more "decide and inform" versus "ask and wait"), for example if you just went ahead and watched SS15 at his activities/games/sports without asking her for permission, that she would... ____________?

[livednlearned]

How much brainstorming do you feel comfortable receiving from members here?

If you feel fear of repercussion, it can feel stressful to get advice that might be challenging given safety is a priority.

A lot of us have had to thread these needles and the devil is often in the details.

I also know how hard it can be to hear feedback when your nervous system is not at baseline, if that's happening for you.

It's tough to read about your situation. I have a son (now 22) and he was very precarious at 15. Every positive relationship mattered.

[ForeverDad]

About your teen... There was a phrase we used in years past, that children influenced by people with BPD (pwBPD) easily had BPD-like "fleas".  Um, as though infested by an outside force.  It isn't that they might have BPD, but that they've been around pwBPD.  Once he has the opportunity to separate portions of his life from his mother's influence, the concerning behaviors may fade.

To be clear, teens can have some PD-like behaviors but most out-grow them.  That's why minors are seldom diagnosed with BPD.  In your case, once your teen is older then the fleas may very well dissipate.

[Brokenmind]

Hey Everyone

Sorry its been a tough 4 days which is why I havent had a chance to get back to anyone

EyesUp

Im sorry first of all for your own situation.

BMind, please remind us:  Have you explored your legal options? Do you have a legal counselor who can advise you on the rights of non-paternal caregivers in the UK?

I have and in the UK unless the child is deemed to be in danger I essentially have no rights to see him despite me being the main caregiver all his life. If the courts decide he is unsafe with her then they will assess me as a suitable foster.

Either way, a lot of us can appreciate the emotional stress - on top of the PD dynamics in your situation.  Hope you're doing well this week...

Thanks EU, I really appreciate everyone here.

[Brokenmind]

Thanks Keells76

That being said -- she may be preoccupied with her new relationship at the moment.

And you are absolutely right. her son has been telling me that this is all she seems to care about and prioritises over him.

Has she ever explicitly communicated in writing "don't contact my son"?

No she hasnt never, not orally nor in writing. She has never responded to my texts, where im ashamed to say i was almost begging, to speak to him at all since i found out about the cheating.

Is part of your fear that if you're more assertive (more "decide and inform" versus "ask and wait"), for example if you just went ahead and watched SS15 at his activities/games/sports without asking her for permission, that she would... ____________?

I wish I could, Unfortunately she never leaves his side. This is the problem with her in the last 12 years. She smothers him because of her own fears and paranoia, almost like she had a fear of abandonment with her own child, so even at 15, she goes with him to the park when playing with friends almost like she wanted to be part of the group! I hated it but couldnt stop her doing it.

[Brokenmind]

How much brainstorming do you feel comfortable receiving from members here?

If you feel fear of repercussion, it can feel stressful to get advice that might be challenging given safety is a priority.

A lot of us have had to thread these needles and the devil is often in the details.

I also know how hard it can be to hear feedback when your nervous system is not at baseline, if that's happening for you.

It's tough to read about your situation. I have a son (now 22) and he was very precarious at 15. Every positive relationship mattered.

Im sorry to hear that you went through similar. Its just so hard. I dont mind the brainstorming at all and actually welcome it.

Oh yeap, my nervous system has been on fire for nearly 4 months now. I can see the physical toll let alone the emotional. Its effected everything but im still stepping forward so Im not out... yet.

[Brokenmind]

To be clear, teens can have some PD-like behaviors but most out-grow them.  That's why minors are seldom diagnosed with BPD.  In your case, once your teen is older then the fleas may very well dissipate.

Thanks FD

This is my hope. That once he moves away from her and has stability he will grow out of the behaviours he is showing. But even if not I think he does need therapy which I will provide for him. I just feel responsible for him as well as the fact I love him.

I feel responsible because I feel I emotionally abandoned him 2 years ago when the abuse got too much for me. Yes I provided financial support still but that simply enabled her to continue living the way she did.

I just want to do whats right for him to lead a happy life.

[livednlearned]

I dont mind the brainstorming at all and actually welcome it.

Does he know the reason is because you fear for your safety? In a way our kids grow up fast because of the bad behaviors they see. I'm wondering if it might be better for him to know why you're holding the line on contact, and why you can't communicate with him now. Because even if he's 18 and not under her guardianship, wouldn't the threat of what she'll do remain?

Or do you feel it will be different when he's legally an adult?

Trying to put myself in his shoes, and overlaying this on what my son was/is like -- he would feel cynical if people acted like he couldn't handle what was actually going on. It's one of the things I noticed about the positive adults in his life throughout his teens. They didn't pretend things were normal, they were age-appropriate about pointing out what he was already seeing and experiencing. For example, there was discussion about medication for depression and anxiety at a time his father still had joint legal custody. His psychiatrist helped manage expectations instead of saying, "I can't do this without your father's permission." It was more like, "Here's the situation. My opinion is that this would be really helpful for you. I'm also not able to prescribe this medication without consent from both parents. Your mom wants to do what's best for you. Your father has a history of fighting with people when he doesn't get his way. He doesn't tend to agree to things your mom does. We have to figure out a middle way. Fortunately, there's a lot we can do without the medications like a, b, c. When it becomes possible for your mom to make decisions, or when you become old enough, these other options open up to us."

It had the effect of opening up a portal to hope if that makes sense. Someone was talking straight to him without making it seem like doors were closing.

[Brokenmind]

Hi LL

For a 15 year old he is surprisingly very aware.

 He knows and understands what has happened. He understands that his Mother has mental health problems. He understands the abuse he and I both suffered. I know he feels abandoned by his Mother but says he is grateful he had me in his life (which made me cry after I got off the phone to him).

This is turn saddens me greatly because he has been forced to grow up  too quickly. The damage done to him is very evident in his behaviours not only to me but to his friends and yes you are right in that he gets annoyed when I try and shield him with him saying he is more than capable.

He is just so angry with his Mother right now. Only last night he is telling me how she hasn’t fed him since the afternoon (it was nearly 9.30pm when I spoke to him), she is seeing till late afternoon and all she does is prioritises time speaking to her partner in the US rather than dealing with him. It’s heart breaking.

He feels like she is just waiting for him ti turn into an adult before dumping him for the US. He even overheard her talking to he cousin about how she wished she never had him, can’t stand him and wished she was just free to do what she wanted. Imagine how he felt listening to that!!

I just can’t believe people like her exist.

Or do you feel it will be different when he's legally an adult?

No I don’t. My synopsis for the future I think is:

1) She will continue to  focus 100% on this new relationship as it’s her dream and way out and will wait till he is of legal age to leave him to live with her partner. Or if she convinces his Nan to look after him full time, leave earlier for the US

And

2) if that happens I may get to see him though his Nan or at 18 he comes to live with with me.

Or

3) This relationship ends in which case I actually fear for her own safety as this will destroy her as she put all her eggs I. This one basket. She lost me, she’s lost her son and her entire family have stopped talking to her. So losing this relationship will be catastrophic to her. I doubt she will try and charm me as she knows that won’t work with me anymore.

 

It had the effect of opening up a portal to hope if that makes sense. Someone was talking straight to him without making it seem like doors were closing.

This is what I’m trying to do. He texts me about the situation. I empathise with him without putting her down too much. But I also tell him straight about the situation. telling him no matter what, whether now are when his 18 or when his 30, 40 or whatever I will always be there for him have a home for him.. That I won’t ever leave him and will always always support him.

He knows this but it’s just heartbreaking that when I was 15 I knew my parents loved me and cared for me and the only stress I had was doing well at school and whether I’m popular or not. Whereas he is dealing with an abusive Mother who screams and shouts at him and has the emotional capability of a child who he thinks doesn’t even know how to love, whilst worrying about his future.

It’s not fair on him to have gone through this. I have sought advice now as to what I my legal options are and I have contacted the Gov to report the abuse.

I should have done this years ago instead of trying to fix it myself and providing a should for him whilst  losing myself in the process. I’m so ashamed of this. Why didn’t I tell myself: “She is abusive, I need to end this relationship and report it as not only he needs help but so does she”. I feel ashamed that I enabled her behaviour through me. The council would have taken him away from her years ago. I just feared that he would be in a worse position with foster carers instead of being placed in my care (especially after 4 years into the relationship) but I was wrong.

Looking back he was the only reason I stayed after 7 years together. I remember at that point I was done and losing him stopped me leaving.



I

[Notwendy]

I am glad you have reported this. It may be the best thing for him for her to move on to her new partner and let him be with you and his grandmother.

As an adult, your son will be able to make his own choices about how much contact he wants with his mother. It's possible she will go to the US but that relationship may be unstable too. She may go back and forth with contact with him but he can make his own choices.

I hope he can come to the understanding that what his mother says about him has nothing to do with him or who he is. What she's saying are her own projections of her own uncomfortable feelings. A difference is that your son has you to validate his perspective- to be the reality check for him and to recognize who he is, not the projections. He is loved and wanted by you and his grandmother.

[EyesUp]

@BMind,

It sounds like you're doing a remarkable job navigating this situation.

With everything that's happened, a huge amount of your energy has gone into recognizing and understanding your ex and her choices, and beginning to process the separation with your son and his situation with his mum/nan.

And it sounds like you're still engaged with him, albeit at some distance, and there is no explicit objection or order to cease communication - only a fear, really, of backlash to you or him from his mum.

If that's about right, then you likely have an opportunity to focus on yourself - as your X is in the US or at least incommunicado, and your son's moment to moment care is out of your control.

In order to get to the point where you're legally able to follow through on the plans you've shared - to assist with his education, etc., in the future - you may need to get your own affairs back on track.  You've previously mentioned letting everything take a back seat to your X.

How do you feel about this?  Have you given any thought to your work, career, and next steps you might take for yourself?

You'll be in a much stronger position down the road if you can work on recovery for yourself now - both emotionally and professionally/financially.

Worth considering:  Given that you're not officially expected to provide for your son, it's up to you to set clear expectations about what you are and are not willing to provide in the future.  A full ride?  Some basic assistance?  Even birth parents need to establish this sort of clear understanding with their kids re:  budget for school, etc.

When communicating a future commitment to your son, have you considered the details?

Also, a bit of a curveball (sorry for the Americanism) question:

Since we're talking about the medium- to long-term here, have you considered how your son might feel when/if you begin a new relationship at some point?

We often say "take care" as a courtesy - but this is really the time to actually do it.  What are you doing to take care of yourself at this point?

[Notwendy]

A couple of thoughts on this situation from my own experience. BPD mother would say similar things to me. She told me my parents wanted to send me away to a boarding school. I call BS now as I wonder if my father considered it to get me away from her not the other way around but I don't know.

I felt hurt at first but then I hoped they would send me to one of these schools. It sounded great.

But BPD mother didn't follow through and since Dad usually did what she wanted, they could have done it- but why didn't they?

So, considering what your son's mother says to him, you'd think she'd be happy to send him to live with you - but she doesn't- why is that? Maybe it's about you, but my parents stayed together so it wasn't about me going to live with my father. There's a push pull to these relationships. She doesn't want him to leave. He serves a purpose for her.

I assumed my parents would be happier once I went to college but a younger sibling told me it didn't happen and in some ways it was worse since I guess the dynamics changed?

I agree with having the talk about paying for college. This is a discussion all parents have. It's OK to share the responsibility with a child if that is best for the family. I can't say for sure but considering what your son has gone through, a gap year while he works and takes some catch up classes before university might be a best plan for him.

Also the idea of self care- your son needs you to be at your best. It will also set an example for him. While you feel badly that you left- you also have the opportunity to not be his mother's emotional caretaker. If you have a stable caring partner - that is one more stable person in your son's world.

We don't stop needing a parent when we are adults. Our needs change but emotionally a parent is a key person for us.  As an adult I don't need someone to "mother" me. It's more of a quality- someone who acts supportive and caring in a motherly way. I hope if you do look for a partner one day that she also will act in a caring way towards your son. He's not her child but if she cares about you, you care about him and he is important to you. That is part of the package.

[livednlearned]

There's a push pull to these relationships. She doesn't want him to leave. He serves a purpose for her.

BPD people in my life are very sensitive to being a third wheel, or feeling like they're on the outside. It doesn't matter if they created that position for themselves, or if it's imagined, all that matters is making sure that they have a way to attain "insider" status if necessary.

Meaning, your ex perceives you and S15 are close, which makes your ex the outsider, and that's not tolerable for her. She's consumed with her US guy for the moment so there's a distraction but any fluctuations in that relationship will need to be smoothed out by S15. She will need to be able to summon him at will, for whatever fleeting purpose.

It's saying the same thing Notwendy said above and what others have observed, including you, but understanding it in terms of the triangle concept from Family Systems Theory can really help see what's driving these needs. The triangle concept really helped me make sense of what was driving my stepdaughter's (uBPD) behaviors even when we weren't in a full blown Karpman drama triangle.  

For example, if my H was in the same room, the triangle was intense. SD26 had to establish insider status with H. If H was on a trip, the triangle was weaker. SD26 wanted my time and attention.

Except one time H was on a trip with my oldest stepdaughter. From the triangle perspective, SD26 found herself vying for insider status (from afar) to break up the closeness her sister and H were having. To do that she texted H that I didn't want her in the house.

H asked me to please fix whatever happened. The triangle became a Karpman drama triangle where I was the perpetrator, SD26 was the victim, and H was the rescuer. In retrospect, I think SD26's sister was the actual target and working their triangle (SD29 --> H --> SD26) activated the triangle with me (LnL --> H--> SD26).

I think it's instinctive and not necessarily a well-differentiated thought process but it doesn't make it any easier to manage.

With S15, the key seems to be giving him hope and supporting him discreetly without shining light on your closeness.

However, even when he's 18 your ex will likely experience the instinctive need for closeness regardless of how she treats S15 or whether she even wants to be around him.

So many times SD26 would text a crisis while H and I were trying to have 90 minutes to ourselves at dinner. We would come home and the crisis would evaporate.

All that was necessary for SD26 was knowing she could get H to re-establish insider status. That was the whole point of the exercise  

[Brokenmind]

Hi NW

Sorry I havent replied for a few days and thank you for the reply.

I am glad you have reported this. It may be the best thing for him for her to move on to her new partner and let him be with you and his grandmother.

It took a lot but I have to think about his well being and I think I made the right decision.

I hope he can come to the understanding that what his mother says about him has nothing to do with him or who he is. What she's saying are her own projections of her own uncomfortable feelings. A difference is that your son has you to validate his perspective- to be the reality check for him and to recognize who he is, not the projections. He is loved and wanted by you and his grandmother.

Thank you NW, this is pretty much what I used to say to him from a young age till now. After the break up and untill very recently Ive felt that saying that was enabling her. Thank you for putting it into perspective for me as I never thought by saying that what she is saying is her and not about him also helped him not become her projections. I never thought of it this way.

[Notwendy]

I am glad it helped. I didn't understand this at your son's age. It affected my self esteem. As I mentioned - I believed my parents would be happier once I left for college since BPD mother blamed me for the issues at home. It was a younger sibling who clarified that this wasn't the case.

When we grow up with a disordered parent, we don't have an example of "normal". Parents should not say these things to a child but we don't know that yet. Your son has a different example of parenting from you, and you can affirm that he is loved and valued.

[Brokenmind]

Hey EU

Thank you for the replies

It sounds like you're doing a remarkable job navigating this situation.

Thanks EU, but I feel like I'm stumbling in the dark. There always seems to be a curveball thrown each day. I'll explain in the next post.

How do you feel about this?  Have you given any thought to your work, career, and next steps you might take for yourself?

You'll be in a much stronger position down the road if you can work on recovery for yourself now - both emotionally and professionally/financially.

In terms of this, since I've had contact with her son its has galvanised me in this respect. Call it what you will (Codedependant trait perhaps) but the since contact and him telling me he loves me and wishes he was with me its made come in leaps and bounds.

So I got a new job, back in the city (hence why Im finding it hard to reply daily) and its quite good money and Im a low maintenance kinda guy which means Im saving a lot; so professionally and financially I'm in a much better position and only getting stronger.

Emotionally; Im a lot stronger than I was and it too feels like its getting easier. I still suffer from moments of depression but Ive accepted my situation and with therapy, research and this forum I understand myself a lot better too. Again yesterday threw a small spanner but Ill explain in my later post.

Worth considering:  Given that you're not officially expected to provide for your son, it's up to you to set clear expectations about what you are and are not willing to provide in the future.  A full ride?  Some basic assistance?  Even birth parents need to establish this sort of clear understanding with their kids re:  budget for school, etc.
When communicating a future commitment to your son, have you considered the details?

For me EU Ive never had my own children, so maybe I dont know the difference but I've raised her son since aged 3, I instantly and never stopped loving him like my own. I was also raised in a family where until your secure you can live at home as long as you want. So for someone I consider my son, its a full ride. But its a bit different in London. We don't pay for education until University stage in which I would gladly pay for. I want him to grow into a fully independent man.

On a personal note I do fear the fact that his Mother will always be in my life to some degree but Ive considered this and again my first thoughts are: Im an adult and her son is a child. I went into her toxicity willingly aged 34 he was born into it and I'm the only Father he knew. I feel my responsibility is towards him.

Since we're talking about the medium- to long-term here, have you considered how your son might feel when/if you begin a new relationship at some point?

We often say "take care" as a courtesy - but this is really the time to actually do it.  What are you doing to take care of yourself at this point?

Ive actually discussed with him on this and he hopes I meet someone that treats me nice.

Thanks EU really thanks, with self care I've been doing better each week. I feel more sure of myself and although I havent captured the self I had before I met her I see glimmers of it and I think aged 46 starting to realise that self care doesnt mean I have to feel like I'm being selfish.

[ForeverDad]

Some parents have found alternative to encounters with the ex.  One is to ensure the holidays are separated.  That is, when he's closer to emancipation or becomes an adult, he can spend a holiday with whichever parent he chooses (co-parenting schedules usually alternate holidays as a default) then he can pick another day for the other parent.  That too would reduce the risk of awkward or triggering contact.

Yes, not practical for all events but it allows him some flexibility not to feel locked in to specific dates.

[Brokenmind]

Hi All

Firstly apologies for the lack of replies.

Its been a very trying time for me this last 10 days which I wont go into on here and will explain later.

Ill firstly respond to everyone's posts:

I didn't understand this at your son's age. It affected my self esteem. As I mentioned - I believed my parents would be happier once I left for college since BPD mother blamed me for the issues at home. It was a younger sibling who clarified that this wasn't the case.

Your son has a different example of parenting from you, and you can affirm that he is loved and valued. 

Im sorry you went through this NW, can I ask how your situation is now? Better?

That is my hope, that me being there from aged 3 gave him that he felt loved and valued. I hope to stay there for him but I have come to the realisation that I also need to take better care of myself as the way Im going Im heading for burnout again.

My problems right now are:

Deep depression. Im secretly breaking down each day in tears.

I fear for his future and what he is showing in his behaviours which seem to increasingly mirror hers. I feel responsible for him almost like its my fault I didnt deal with her better for him during the 12 years. I keep thinking about the arguments we had in front of him and how it effected him.

Im still dealing with the heartbreak, anger and sadness of the breakup. I feel like I was abused for 12 years and destroyed my own identify and all for love. I obviously dont want her back but I feel like I gave up on all aspects of my life for her.
#My relationship ended and I was cut off from him.
#My relationship with my family changed over 12 years because she raged at them and I always sided with her,
#I lost all friends over 12 years for the same reason.
#My career went sideways and is still not where it should of been.
# my personality has become too people pleasing. I seem to do this more and more. I went on dates and I found myself in a relationship where I went all out to please her like I did with my ex.

I just feel so broken




 

[Brokenmind]

Hi FD

Some parents have found alternative to encounters with the ex.  One is to ensure the holidays are separated.  That is, when he's closer to emancipation or becomes an adult, he can spend a holiday with whichever parent he chooses (co-parenting schedules usually alternate holidays as a default) then he can pick another day for the other parent.  That too would reduce the risk of awkward or triggering contact.

This is the issue FD. His Mum does not know im in contact with her son, and in her sons words "really hates me". So I have no contact with her whatsoever and puts me in a risky position as he is only 15 and im just an ex who is contacting him without her permission. At first and until recently he lied to me and said she gave permission so since then I told him I cant  just text him when i want and he has to contact me first so its me responding to him.

My plan and hope is we keep contact until she allows him to or when he reaches 18 where he can do what he likes.

in the meantime I need to sort myself out. As I feel like im going back into deep depression again.

It just feels like im swimming in everything she damaged and will do so for a long time.

My son. When the relationship ended I lost contact with him. Yes Im in contact with him now but I havent seen him since December. I just miss him so much

My career was damaged badly. Im getting back on track and earning a decent salary now but probably half of where I should be at my age and I feel like a failure.

My family ties Im trying to mend but its hard as so many bridges where burned by me during the relationship

Friends are not existent and aside from work colleagues I dont have a social network,

Physically Ive lost so much weight and just feel old and ugly.

Ive tried dating again. First was a women who I think just used me for a free meal and the second is a psychologist who for the last month Ive been dating is showing red flags and Im not ending it even though I know I should! (I will discuss this in the other forum)

I just started feeling like I'm in this dark place with no way out again. I just feel like she shattered my life and Im scared of collapsing and then what good am I to anyone including her son?

[Notwendy]

Im sorry you went through this NW, can I ask how your situation is now? Better?

That is my hope, that me being there from aged 3 gave him that he felt loved and valued. I hope to stay there for him but I have come to the realisation that I also need to take better care of myself as the way Im going Im heading for burnout again.

My problems right now are:

Deep depression. Im secretly breaking down each day in tears.

I fear for his future and what he is showing in his behaviours which seem to increasingly mirror hers. I feel responsible for him almost like its my fault I didnt deal with her better for him during the 12 years. I keep thinking about the arguments we had in front of him and how it effected him.

Im still dealing with the heartbreak, anger and sadness of the breakup. I feel like I was abused for 12 years and destroyed my own identify and all for love. I obviously dont want her back but I feel like I gave up on all aspects of my life for her.
I just feel so broken

Yes, I can say things are better- I grew up, left home, and what my parents say to me does not define who I am.

From the perspective of an adult- although you are concerned for your son, you need to take care of yourself- both for you and for him. You can only "be there" for him to the extent that you can "be there" for you. They say on an airplane to put your oxygen mask on first- before helping someone else. There's a reason for that. If you are emotionally drained, there's not much left for anyone else.

I did wonder why my father "gave in" so much to my mother. Why didn't he stand up for us kids more? The answer was- he was emotionally  drained. It is very difficult to say no to my mother and to deal with her behaviors. If someone is emotionally worn out, there isn't the stamina to hold a boundary.

But here is the other side of this situation- the role model we had was to comply with my mother and not say no to her. I didn't know how to do otherwise. I could learn it later. Kids learn by seeing our behavior. You are a role model for your son. So I will say this- truly- the best thing you can do for your son is to take care of you. You need to be at your best for him and also- you will role model self care and emotional recovery for him.

One aspect of depression is to ruminate on something that bothers us. While you are concerned for your son- it may be that at the moment, you are doing all you can do for him- the best you can do in your situation.

Consider also there are limitations to how much you can ensure the outcome for your son. I think it's possible to mitigate the impact of a disordered parent but I don't think it's possible to undo all of it. Some things are not under your control. Genetics, the child's own resilience, personality and the presence of other disorders- like being on the spectrum. He will likely have his own emotional work to do. Consider that your efforts have done a lot of good for him, to the extent possible.

I hope you can turn some attention to your own self care- through counseling, get help for depression. You will then be in a much better emotional place and far more able to be of help to your son.

[SaltyDawg]

Broken,

   I hear you.  After what you have been through it is very easy to fall into a depression.

   I find using healthy coping mechanisms to be very helpful such as exercise, getting lost in a good book/movie/series, nice long hot showers, and other distractions to stave off depression and feeling down.

   I know you have a therapist, seek their advice and if this T isn't working out for you, it is okay to find another that you 'click' better with.

   Given the circumstances, I think you are doing a great job with your son.  Even though this is easier said than done, try not to let your stress/depression show in your return texts to him as he needs all the emotional support he can get.

   Like you, my social network was decimated by putting all of my effort into appeasing my pwBPD, I've backed off on my appeasing, and I am slowly making new friends in my mid 50's while avoiding those with obvious 'issues'.  This has made it very difficult to find additional support outside of therapy for me, so I seek out 'safe places' like BPD Family.

   Circling back to your son, I know my son does 'monkey see, monkey do' when it comes to behaviors that both my wife does, and myself - so my Ts and I feel that it is very important to model good behaviors as he will takes those into his own life as he becomes an adult.

   Take care, with self care as it will get better.

SD

Hi FD

This is the issue FD. His Mum does not know im in contact with her son, and in her sons words "really hates me". So I have no contact with her whatsoever and puts me in a risky position as he is only 15 and im just an ex who is contacting him without her permission. At first and until recently he lied to me and said she gave permission so since then I told him I cant  just text him when i want and he has to contact me first so its me responding to him.

My plan and hope is we keep contact until she allows him to or when he reaches 18 where he can do what he likes.

in the meantime I need to sort myself out. As I feel like im going back into deep depression again.

It just feels like im swimming in everything she damaged and will do so for a long time.

My son. When the relationship ended I lost contact with him. Yes Im in contact with him now but I havent seen him since December. I just miss him so much

My career was damaged badly. Im getting back on track and earning a decent salary now but probably half of where I should be at my age and I feel like a failure.

My family ties Im trying to mend but its hard as so many bridges where burned by me during the relationship

Friends are not existent and aside from work colleagues I dont have a social network,

Physically Ive lost so much weight and just feel old and ugly.

Ive tried dating again. First was a women who I think just used me for a free meal and the second is a psychologist who for the last month Ive been dating is showing red flags and Im not ending it even though I know I should! (I will discuss this in the other forum)

I just started feeling like I'm in this dark place with no way out again. I just feel like she shattered my life and Im scared of collapsing and then what good am I to anyone including her son?

[ForeverDad]

My problems right now are:

Deep depression. I'm secretly breaking down each day in tears.

We all need help sometimes.  You could benefit from more than remote peer support.  Ponder your local options.  Try finding a counselor, or mens groups.  Associate with your friends.

I went on dates and I found myself in a relationship where I went all out to please her like I did with my ex.

No, now is not the time for dates.  You're too likely to still be absorbed with the ended relationships.  You don't want a 'rebound' relationship.  Those are built on the wrong foundation.  You need to be relatively stable and composed first.  Recovery takes time, it's not an event or quick decision.