Still struggling with boundaries…

[thankful person]

Will I ever master this or will some of it always be impossible?

Very bad end to a long day. My wife always struggles on Tuesdays as she has all the kids all day and I’m at school all day then two hours teaching at students homes then one hour teaching online from home.

It was terrible. My wife hates it because the children come for cuddles while I’m teaching. That in itself is not invasive to the lesson but the baby wouldn’t stop crying and she wouldn’t take him and it was so unprofessional I had to hang up. Then I tried ringing back and my student heard my wife screaming that I should do the piano lesson in the car as she was about to put the kids to bed. (It’s all ok if she gets them upstairs before I get in). In the end I had to totally abandon the lesson. It is rearranged for Friday but at 7pm again so I’m dreading her doing this again. I can’t charge them if it doesn’t work out.

I don’t know how to uphold my boundaries around this. We need the income desperately, it is the worst time to be unprofessional when I’ve just announced a fees increase and one of my students (not online) is quitting due to this.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey... sorry about the rough night. That's a level of stress you don't need 

How long has the arrangement been that your W is "primary parent" on Tuesdays? I.e., just started, been going a few weeks, been going months...?

Looking back, if it has been that way for a while, what % of the Tuesdays were things "workable" or "mostly OK"? Any changes to the trend (i.e., started out OK then got worse), or is it unpredictable?

Sounds like the boundary you would like for yourself is: "I am unable to provide high intensity [crying, toileting, cooking, discipline, etc] child care during my work hours". Is that close?

Sometimes upholding boundaries (that is, rules for ourselves) is uncomfortable and expensive. That isn't fair, yet sometimes not upholding our boundaries is also expensive.

It seems like a safe assumption that your W may not like/agree with any boundary (rule for yourself) about your work hours. So in a way, I hope that can be freeing for you -- your baseline assumption would be zero cooperation and zero agreement, so any miniscule cooperation above that would be a win.

It also seems like a safe assumption that she would express dislike about any solutions you implement. Again, can that be freeing for you -- you can accept in advance that she may never like, appreciate, or agree with your boundaries or solutions... so anything above that is a win?

Fortunately, her like/dislike of your rules and solutions for yourself doesn't have to drive your choices. My sense is that there is nothing you could do perfectly enough to "make it" so she likes it. Maybe you can come up with rules/solutions based on what you need, knowing that nothing would impact her inner feelings?

...

Assuming she is parenting past her limit on Tuesdays, I wonder if you may need to hire a "mother's helper" for those last few hours of the day. Yes -- she wouldn't like it, and it would be expensive. However, losing students is also expensive, and she already doesn't like any solutions.

Just some brainstorming of how you can respect and follow your rules for yourself.

Curious if there are other options out there, that don't depend on her holding it together all day?

[GaGrl]

The mother's helper immediately occurred to me, also. She does not appear to be able to take a long day without assistance.

[thankful person]

Hi Kells and Gagrl,

My wife won’t accept any professional help, we have discussed this before and there’s no way I could arrange this with her cooperation.

This is about her jealousy over my work. Apparently her day was fine. The baby needed to get to bed and she was trying to get on with some tasks. Reflecting on this, maybe her intention was to not leave me with the usual bombsite to clean and tidy after my 12 hour work day.

To me it seems in my wife’s eyes, I had chosen work over her all day and then came home to continue this.

In the past she has bullied me on numerous occasions which has led me to losing students, for example saying I couldn’t work 7-8pm as she needed help. The student in question yesterday had to change days recently because of the hectic dance lesson schedule my wife has set up for our daughters because I need to take care of the baby and sometimes D2 while D4 is at dance.

I don’t see a solution here, sorry if I missed your point Kells. I am way past trying to do things in a way to keep her happy or whatever, but I tried continuing my lesson against her wishes, and asserting that I would do it at the piano not in the car, and she made it quite clear that she would continue to scream at me while I working, seriously jeopardising me even keeping this student. Not only is she jealous of my relationship with my students, she is jealous because I am teaching them to play the piano and she doesn’t like hearing them getting good at it when I have tried numerous times to teach her and she just screams that I’m a bad teacher because she refuses to listen to me explain anything and refuses to proceed as I advise etc.

Yesterday we spent some time discussing the student who is quitting and I listed that he’s in my top six most dedicated students in 16 years. She called out her own name which is just ridiculous as she’s the most undedicated ever that’s lessons rarely last more than two minutes. Anyway, the student whose lesson was sabotaged yesterday was in that list of most dedicated and I’m wondering if this is also related to my wife’s jealousy and behaviour.

[Notwendy]

TP- you are trying to reason with someone who is running on her emotions. By having a "boundary" on being able to teach your lessons in quiet at home - when your wife wants your attention, you are trying to get her to change her behavior but she's the only one who can decide to do that and it's possible she can't, or won't.

Boundaries are about you, your values and what actions you would take to protect what is important to you. Your lessons and income are important to you and so, it may be that the only guarantee your wife and kids won't interrupt you is to teach from a space they are not there. This is a challenge as a piano isn't portable. But there may be some options- like at the school you teach, or a local church- where you can borrow their space/piano, a practice room at a school? If you don't need the piano and you mainly observe your student playing- then yes, you can even do this in the car.

For the student who experienced the interrupted lesson- I suggest you not charge for the lesson this week or offer a discount if you are able to. I think that would extend some goodwill to them. For the dedicated student who is quitting over the higher rates- would they consider a discount in the form of a "scholarship"? I know you are running a business and the income is important but also so is keeping your students on board.

It's understandable that a parent would be be upset if the lesson was interrupted by an angry spouse and upset kids. You are a talented teacher and need to be able to provide a focused lesson.

You already know that Tuesday is a rough day. Your wife is home alone with the kids all day and wants attention when you come home. So do the kids. Any boundary that has a chance of working has to also consider the situation. It may be that coming home and continuing to work is not feasable with your family situation and students may need to have lessons a different night.

I can't predict the future of your situation but I know the situation in my family and expecting my BPD mother to not behave like she does is expecting her to be different. That isn't possible. I can't change her. She is who she is and her feelings are hers. My "boundaries" are to protect what I need to protect, not to change her. One example is that she would look at personal spaces like cabinets and drawers when she came to visit. She'd excuse herself to go use the restroom and then go through a desk or something. The boundary wasn't to ask her to stop because she's in control of what she wants to do. The boundary is to lock up anything we don't want her looking at.

If we want something done in quiet - we can't do it when she is around. I recall one time when my father needed help with going through some boxes and we tried to help him and BPD mother stood at the door, yelling at us.

I think BPD mother does get upset when people are doing things that don't include her, even if it's a task that is being done for her benefit. This is her feelings and reasoning with feelings doesn't usually work. Your wife feels how she feels and I don't think you can expect her to not have the feelings she has. To protect your job and your income, you will need to work around this somehow.

[kells76]

thankful person, I wonder if there are two strands to your situation?

One is the practical problem-solving strand.

The other is -- how are you feeling? Are you feeling overwhelmed and hopeless? I know you are going through a lot with your dad's health.

It can be hard to find solutions when we're feeling swamped.

I'm not sure if that's it -- just guessing, and let me know if that's off target.

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, thank you for reminding me  -again - to be mindful of what I can and can’t control. Your analogy of locking things away from bpd mother was excellent and of course a technique often used when raising children or caring for them professionally. I am considering whether there are any alternative venues where I could do my online piano lessons. I already made it clear to the student’s dad that I won’t charge if we’re unable to rearrange the lesson. She did 20 minutes with me yesterday but I intend to give her the full hour on Friday so they’ll actually get a little extra. It’s not a great look teaching in the car (it’s also dark!) but I have done it on occasion whilst travelling home (as a passenger). I have insisted to my wife that I will go upstairs if necessary rather than in the car, and she has said no way because they’re about to come up to bed. So far as Friday’s lesson goes (or any other time she behaves in this way) I will go to the car without hesitation if necessary.

Kells you are right, I feel very overwhelmed with everything right now. My Dad is unwell again, I am trying to balance work, kids, animals, housework… and dbpdw. Normally I’m ok, but I was already feeling down about one of my best students quitting and this incident last night pushed me over the edge a bit, I felt so humiliated and mortified especially having just asked for more money. To top it all off our two pet gerbils both died today so we’re all very sad about that.

[kells76]

Hi thankful person;

How have the last couple of Tuesdays gone?

[thankful person]

Kells,

I really had to think about it I can’t believe two Tuesdays have passed!

So, the first Tuesday… I got in from work for the online lesson and my wife had already got the kids fed, changed, in bed. So I got on with my online lesson and there was no drama other than a text to keep the noise down (because I get excited when I teach and she has complained about this since the Covid lockdown lessons when D4 was a baby).

The second Tuesday… I got in and the whole house was in chaos, kids not ready, whining, screaming… w screeching her head off at everyone (including me of course) very stressed. I managed to help her get the kids ready and upstairs but she made it clear that she was not happy about the lesson taking priority over her and everything else.

I’m nervous for the future of this lesson because I think the next thing could be her refusing to go upstairs again and letting the kids ruin the lesson.

She knows we need the money and I can’t do the lesson another day or time (I currently do 2 hrs each on Saturday and Sunday and she’s not happy about those either).I lost the income from the lesson I had to abandon because I couldn’t find a mutually good time for the student to catch up.

Last night there was drama too. D4’s dance classes are taking over everything. I have always said my long term plan is not to be working evenings once our kids are at school. But I have to bring the money in. W was stressed because the dance teacher keeps changing the lesson time last minute for her own convenience. She thinks the world of the teacher and won’t complain. But w wants to sit with the other mums and chat and for me to look after our little ones. Yesterday she was putting pressure on me to cancel a new student’s lesson who’s only just started. In the end I didn’t but it’s so infuriating how she can’t be like, “oh brilliant you’ve got work, you’re earning the money we need to survive and pay off debts, so I’ll be accepting and supporting and encouraging not to mention appreciative of all your hard work…”

Btw I spend a couple of hours every night tidying and cleaning the place once she’s in bed with the kids. And I’m constantly praising her for all her hard work with them and any time she doesn’t respond to a trigger with rage (external triggers not me that is).

I have 3 weeks off school now and I’ll miss the income but I’m exhausted so thankful for the break.

[kells76]

Hey, good to hear an update about the Tuesday situation.

So, the first Tuesday… I got in from work for the online lesson and my wife had already got the kids fed, changed, in bed. So I got on with my online lesson and there was no drama other than a text to keep the noise down (because I get excited when I teach and she has complained about this since the Covid lockdown lessons when D4 was a baby).

The second Tuesday… I got in and the whole house was in chaos, kids not ready, whining, screaming… w screeching her head off at everyone (including me of course) very stressed. I managed to help her get the kids ready and upstairs but she made it clear that she was not happy about the lesson taking priority over her and everything else.

I’m nervous for the future of this lesson because I think the next thing could be her refusing to go upstairs again and letting the kids ruin the lesson.

She knows we need the money and I can’t do the lesson another day or time (I currently do 2 hrs each on Saturday and Sunday and she’s not happy about those either).I lost the income from the lesson I had to abandon because I couldn’t find a mutually good time for the student to catch up.

So while it hasn't been entirely good, it also hasn't been entirely bad. Would you say that the Tuesday behavior is kind of unpredictable?

Will your family try to keep a similar schedule over the break (minus your 3 weeks off school) -- i.e., trying to do meals, bathtime, bedtime, etc, at the same times? Or do you take more of a "vacation from the schedule" over the break?

Last night there was drama too. D4’s dance classes are taking over everything. I have always said my long term plan is not to be working evenings once our kids are at school. But I have to bring the money in. W was stressed because the dance teacher keeps changing the lesson time last minute for her own convenience. She thinks the world of the teacher and won’t complain. But w wants to sit with the other mums and chat and for me to look after our little ones. Yesterday she was putting pressure on me to cancel a new student’s lesson who’s only just started. In the end I didn’t but it’s so infuriating how she can’t be like, “oh brilliant you’ve got work, you’re earning the money we need to survive and pay off debts, so I’ll be accepting and supporting and encouraging not to mention appreciative of all your hard work…”

that has to hurt to be so taken for granted 

Btw I spend a couple of hours every night tidying and cleaning the place once she’s in bed with the kids. And I’m constantly praising her for all her hard work with them and any time she doesn’t respond to a trigger with rage (external triggers not me that is).

Anything stand out to you (any long term trends/changes) from trying the approach of gratitude/appreciation for the positive things she does (or for her refraining from the negative)? How does she typically respond?

I have 3 weeks off school now and I’ll miss the income but I’m exhausted so thankful for the break.

Hope you get some good down time and extra sleep!