Got my pwBPD comfortable with the relationship of a sudden?

[ZenZen]

Hello everyone nice that such a Forum exists

I try to keep it short. As you expect I let a person into my life who has BPD (Diagnosed, one therapy done, next therapy will hopefully start soon).
We are both in our early thirties and in a pretty new relationship and as you also might expect went pretty nice in the beginning. But as a lot of private problems arise in her life, she became distant to me and cold, but not to her friends (astonishingly good people).
The last relationship was so intense (FP?) she said, she couldn’t imagine living without him, she never loved someone that much, until he cheated on her and left her completely shattered and broken.
I was very sorry when i read up on this FP topic and realised the significance of such a break up, it must be a really terrible thing. X.x For that i can now understand that she has a ton of trust issues.
As you may see, i gathered already a good amount information about her disorder, as things turned down and cold, and actually it’s not something i am wondering about what’s happening, just try to give her her spaces and stick to her side.
For me, i am pretty much a normal average guy, non-toxic, not narcissistic or co-dependant in any means.
I am also seeking out a therapist who is treating persons with BPD once a month to ask her similar questions like these.
And, at least in my opinion, i am also the first normal, principled man treating her lovely and calmly to ever have a relationship with her, because of her stories involving violence, fraud, manipulation and exploitation.
I also think she is trustworthy because of her sense of fairness and actions of caring are very pronounced, so i believe in the stories but still being skeptic about some details, trying to figure it out by my self.
For my believe, i guess that she is a quite person with BPD, as i only ever see the tip of the iceberg. She only grieves in isolation.
So much for the backstory.

Since distancing for two or three weeks (didn’t consciously harm her, it’s just happening right now without any argument - guess devaluation stage or anything else, you know how it goes) i try to validate her from time to time in a light hearted fashion, respond to her daily texts as i feel comfortable with, appreciate the good things happening in her life and take a good listen when she feels down. We haven’t seen each other for about two weeks as she want to go slow again, step by step, which i agreed on, as i also had to cool down a bit. Also initimacy is difficult for her right now and tenderness is on the back burner(Google translator xD) because she has too many worries at the moment, caused by her problems i stated in the first chapter i guess.
On the other hand, she told me at the beginning of dating she couldn’t go a month without sex and was formerly promiscuous, as she was twenty, what she regrets nowadays.
The last exclusively sexual relationship she had was before we started dating, she liked it rough she said but not in any special way. She quit it for good by her own as we started dating.
But now she tells me she could hardly stood the sex with this f*-buddy, even if it was only every other week - maybe she was just trying to keep this dude on a leash - fear of loss and so on, don't know o.o
So all in all a very contrasting program now - which i didn’t come up with a coping mechanism the last days, because i could no longer distinguish between the person and the illness, so i just left it for good - until now, as i got time reasoning about it again :D Another issue that really concerns me, is that she has pushed me further away from her social circle and she may not want me to ever get to know them - but it could also simply be unintentional.

Sorry for this monologue, there are many more details that would go beyond the scope. So now to my question :

How do you differentiate between the personality and the illness in such a situation? Got my partner with BPD comfortable with the relationship of a sudden, or are such contradictories typical for splitting?
Will things then be revised and the truth ultimately come to light as they gain more trust and open up?
Is anyone else sharing such an experience and ever rekindled sexlife?
Or can persons with BPD also SLOWLY cut you off (reducing pain of upcoming break up), in a somewhat logical way, or is just everything unconscious manipulation?

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[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the forums.  I'm very glad you found us!

And, at least in my opinion, i am also the first normal, principled man treating her lovely and calmly to ever have a relationship with her, because of her stories involving violence, fraud, manipulation and exploitation.

As you read through the site, you'll see this pattern that every ex was a terrible person, highly manipulative, unloving and cruel, etc.  Then when the breakup happens, we get labeled the same way because of their distortions and the need to be seen as the victim.  If they're dysregulated and struggling, it is very natural for them to blame others for not understanding their pain and what they're going through...making them the 'abusers' in the BPD's mind.

With that said, I'd take her backstories with a grain of salt.  The sexual stuff, the abuse, etc. all creates a narrative that's really hard to trust.

How do you differentiate between the personality and the illness in such a situation? Got my partner with BPD comfortable with the relationship of a sudden, or are such contradictories typical for splitting?

The contradictions are very typical and it's something you can learn about through the sticky tabs at the top of the page.  Often, her words and feelings won't align, so it takes practice and a lot of patience to respond appropriately.

Will things then be revised and the truth ultimately come to light as they gain more trust and open up?

Post breakup, a new cycle starts and mimics the initial relationship...but the timetable accelerates.  Gaining trust and opening up is not generally permanent unless both of you make some serious changes in how you communicate.

Is anyone else sharing such an experience and ever rekindled sexlife?

There are many stories here that are similar to yours and like I just mentioned, those patterns can repeat with you and her other ex's.  That does not necessarily mean that the relationship is fixed and all is well.

Or can persons with BPD also SLOWLY cut you off (reducing pain of upcoming break up), in a somewhat logical way, or is just everything unconscious manipulation?

With BPD, people run on emotion and logic doesn't play as much of a factor.  When they're happy, they are the happiest people in the world.  When they're sad, they're miserable and the world is a terrible place.  They connect people to these emotions and it plays a factor in how their relationships play out. 

The problem is when they're sad internally from low self-esteem or anything really, and those emotions get assigned to the people closest to them.  That's how relationship turmoil can seemingly come from nowhere and it's why you have to learn to communicate differently when she's unstable.

I hope that helps!

[ZenZen]

Thank you for the detailed answer. I researched more on this topic and currently reading a somewhat famous book : "The Body keeps the score - Bessel van der Kolk“ to get more information about trauma itself. Also read through other stories and you are absolutely right, the same things appear over and over again.
It’s hard for me to believe that in the beginning that was the same for me, as obvious i feel not, because she sounded so reasonable and pretty calm, absolutely not in a victim state of mind. But i have to accept that maybe this is just imagination and maybe i shouldn’t compare the words from the beginning with current ones.

For now it got even more down the spiral, she suffers from depression and could hardly get out of bed she told me. I recognize her sad mood from her voicemails.
She opened up a little bit on her feelings and said she is not good at communicating right now or reaching out. That said, we are not able to talk it out very sadly and i don’t either want to push her nor wail. I read about an article, which discussed the attachment of her emotions to persons, i didn’t know that before - that was a nice help, i can understand more now. And maybe i did some wrong moves there, which were unconsciously and now makes me a threat to her emotional wellbeing.
Or it just her lack of self-esteem projecting on to me.

I am in a pretty hard spot now and don’t know what to do, leave her even more space and retreat or just stick to my routine of sending her at least one simple message a day. For the one side i want to reassure her that i don’t leave, but on the other side i don’t want her to put effort in interacting with me too much because she needs her energy on her depression. So i just do what my gut is saying me to do - reaching out once per day, even if she answers or not.
How would someone else handle that situation? Is the end of the relationship now inevitable as a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Or is it maybe a PLEASE READ test of some sort, to check my boundaries - and is a boundary like „i want to meet you at least every two weeks, because it’s important to me.“ a good one?

[kells76]

Thank you for the detailed answer. I researched more on this topic and currently reading a somewhat famous book : "The Body keeps the score - Bessel van der Kolk“ to get more information about trauma itself. Also read through other stories and you are absolutely right, the same things appear over and over again.
It’s hard for me to believe that in the beginning that was the same for me, as obvious i feel not, because she sounded so reasonable and pretty calm, absolutely not in a victim state of mind. But i have to accept that maybe this is just imagination and maybe i shouldn’t compare the words from the beginning with current ones.

Seems like a wise approach. For example, in previous relationships, maybe I told a boyfriend "I love you", or "I want to marry you", or "You're the only one for me." I've now been married >10 years; should my spouse be upset that I told a previous BF I wanted to be married to him? Or can he contextualize that I was saying something true back then at that point in the past, and I'm not exactly the same person now, and it's my actions that communicate my values much more than "tracking my words?"

"Words at the beginning" and "words now" will vary for many persons and that isn't just a BPD thing. Something to keep in mind. No matter what MH challenge the person in your life may or may not have, it seems like it's actions that are more important.

It also seems to me that many BPD traits and behaviors can unfold over time within the context of a relationship. "Starting out reasonable" doesn't strike me as that odd. Certainly some pwBPD "start out unreasonable" yet perhaps fewer people enter into long relationships in those cases.

For now it got even more down the spiral, she suffers from depression and could hardly get out of bed she told me. I recognize her sad mood from her voicemails.
She opened up a little bit on her feelings and said she is not good at communicating right now or reaching out. That said, we are not able to talk it out very sadly and i don’t either want to push her nor wail. I read about an article, which discussed the attachment of her emotions to persons, i didn’t know that before - that was a nice help, i can understand more now. And maybe i did some wrong moves there, which were unconsciously and now makes me a threat to her emotional wellbeing.
Or it just her lack of self-esteem projecting on to me.

Many members here, myself included, can relate to that. We think that "generally normal" approaches will be constructive when communicating with a pwBPD. I thought that if we just proved more facts, then my H's kids' mom would "have to" capitulate. Not so. Yet we don't know what we don't know, and when we know better, we can do better.

Have you had a chance to check out our articles on when a partner/spouse/BF/GF has BPD yet? It's a nice selection that does cover some of the counterintuitive communication stuff.

I am in a pretty hard spot now and don’t know what to do, leave her even more space and retreat or just stick to my routine of sending her at least one simple message a day. For the one side i want to reassure her that i don’t leave, but on the other side i don’t want her to put effort in interacting with me too much because she needs her energy on her depression. So i just do what my gut is saying me to do - reaching out once per day, even if she answers or not.
How would someone else handle that situation? Is the end of the relationship now inevitable as a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Or is it maybe a PLEASE READ test of some sort, to check my boundaries - and is a boundary like „i want to meet you at least every two weeks, because it’s important to me.“ a good one?

Whose boundary would that one be -- yours or hers?

[ZenZen]

Thank you kells76 for your message :D

You are right, people change over time, that’s a fact. The hope is of course, that these changes are something positive and that people can develop further. But for my situation, it was almost no a glimpse, that was the confusing part. It felt like it was a major change in her core feelings within seconds.

I also have read a lot and i guess my communication is better over all, not only with her, but also in daily life. But maybe i have to read it several times to stick to it. I already started reading about other traumas too and can now for the most part understand the basics. But for the rest, she should teach me and tell me.

At the moment I am still reaching out, usually once a day.
I just tell her what i am up to and wish her strength and hope and tell her that negative episodes won’t last forever for example.
She answers not all of them and also said that it’s nice that i am still reaching out, but I can’t expect much from her lately, she’s already having a hard enough time just getting through the day.
And then I thought about it. Is it really my intention to help her with my messages, or is it rather my intention to somehow put myself in her radar in order to get her attention, at least for a brief moment, because I am insecure? This shows me a weakness in myself rather than dismissing it as a strength for caring. And so in the last few days I’ve decided to write less because that might help the most. She has to decide for herself what value I bring to her.

What i also noticed is that pictures that she likes wake her up more. For example, a sunset over our small town that turned the sky blood red. Maybe she would prefer to receive other attention instead of plain texts and i’m somehow not able to connect with her on that level, because the relationship was not yet intimate enough. I also wonder what she actually expects in a relationship or what it should provide.

I still don’t understand how to set the right boundaries because there isn’t a lot of communication going on at the moment. One thing i could think of would be, despite everything that’s happening, we can still see each other at least every two weeks, that we can talk to each other more deeply. But i don’t know whether her mental state even allows this, or what state she is in right now. Does she have good days, is she depressed and can no longer cope with her everyday life or is she just pushing me aside because she can or i let her? Or... is she investing in a different relationship and just simply disinterested?

She doesn’t live far away, so sometimes I just think about driving by and asking for a short walk. However, I don’t think something like that would help much if she already told me that we shouldn’t meet for the time being, until she sorted things out in her life.

[ZenZen]

What i also noticed is that pictures that she likes wake her up more. For example, a sunset over our small town that turned the sky blood red. Maybe she would prefer to receive other attention instead of plain texts and i’m somehow not able to connect with her on that level, because the relationship was not yet intimate enough. I also wonder what she actually expects in a relationship or what it should provide.

I just realized that there is no such thing as "the right thing". If I were, let's say, to try to impress her through some kind of action or something else, I would probably support her behavior in the sense that I'm basically giving her a concession that her withdrawal can have some positive effect, or would give her some kind of control. That might cause her to do something like that again in the future if she has doubts in the relationship or about me. SHE has to realize on her own that i don't want to hurt or abuse her in any way if she gets deeper into the relationship with me. The only way to end this current episode is for her to come to terms with her emotional world and understand that her thoughts have nothing to do with me. I can support her, but she has to do the work on herself, ideally with professional help.

[Pook075]

I just realized that there is no such thing as "the right thing". If I were, let's say, to try to impress her through some kind of action or something else, I would probably support her behavior in the sense that I'm basically giving her a concession that her withdrawal can have some positive effect, or would give her some kind of control. That might cause her to do something like that again in the future if she has doubts in the relationship or about me. SHE has to realize on her own that i don't want to hurt or abuse her in any way if she gets deeper into the relationship with me. The only way to end this current episode is for her to come to terms with her emotional world and understand that her thoughts have nothing to do with me. I can support her, but she has to do the work on herself, ideally with professional help.

That's a very wise statement and I believe it to be true.  You can meet her halfway and lend support when she needs it, but she has to trust and meet you halfway as well.

[kells76]

That's a very wise statement and I believe it to be true.  You can meet her halfway and lend support when she needs it, but she has to trust and meet you halfway as well.

That touches on a key concept here -- the only person in the relationship over whom we have control is ourselves. Boundaries are rules for us to follow, not rules for the other person to follow to make them do something I want.

And even without PD's in play, sometimes one person wants to be in a relationship and the other person does not. That's happened to me: I wanted to keep dating someone and he said No thanks, too many hurdles. It happens, it's normal, and it hurts. Her not wanting to be in a relationship can be a normal human behavior, not a BPD behavior. Not saying if it is or isn't -- just putting that out there.

That being said, it sounds like you'd like to keep trying to connect with her?

Couple of thoughts:

You are right, people change over time, that’s a fact. The hope is of course, that these changes are something positive and that people can develop further. But for my situation, it was almost no a glimpse, that was the confusing part. It felt like it was a major change in her core feelings within seconds.

If BPD is in the mix, then that would be something to expect, rather than something to be blindsided by.

I also have read a lot and i guess my communication is better over all, not only with her, but also in daily life. But maybe i have to read it several times to stick to it. I already started reading about other traumas too and can now for the most part understand the basics. But for the rest, she should teach me and tell me.

In a "generally normal" relationship, you might be able to have that conversation with her, about what each of you "should" do. If BPD is in play, then there's a serious mental condition impacting her thinking and perception. She may have some emotional impairments where she is limited in her ability to do "normal range" relating moves. Expecting her to do what she "should" do may be a dead end. Sometimes it can help to consider a BPD relationship an "emotional special needs" relationship. Just like you wouldn't tell a partner using a wheelchair that she "should" help you climb the stairs, it may help to realize that BPD can impair "emotional effort" the same way.

At the moment I am still reaching out, usually once a day.
I just tell her what i am up to and wish her strength and hope and tell her that negative episodes won’t last forever for example.
She answers not all of them and also said that it’s nice that i am still reaching out, but I can’t expect much from her lately, she’s already having a hard enough time just getting through the day.

Sometimes we can be inadvertently invalidating.

The way we feel is always valid -- that's for everyone, PD or not. We have feelings, they're happening, and regardless of the cause, feelings feel a certain way.

When we tell someone, out of good intentions, that "you won't feel that way forever", it can be invalidating, because instead of receiving connection and understanding, it can come across as dismissal, or "get over it".

I wonder what would happen if instead of "encouraging her to see the light", you were able to stay in that moment with her? It wouldn't mean agreeing that her reasoning for feeling negative is valid; it would mean thinking to yourself -- if you felt negative and down, and if you felt like it was exhausting getting through the day, what would that be like? Overwhelming? Tiring? Lonely? Other?

Take a look at our Don't Be Invalidating workshop and we can talk through it back here. It could be really helpful in your situation.

And then I thought about it. Is it really my intention to help her with my messages, or is it rather my intention to somehow put myself in her radar in order to get her attention, at least for a brief moment, because I am insecure? This shows me a weakness in myself rather than dismissing it as a strength for caring. And so in the last few days I’ve decided to write less because that might help the most. She has to decide for herself what value I bring to her.

That's wise to question your real motivations, and to be willing to do something uncomfortable.

What i also noticed is that pictures that she likes wake her up more. For example, a sunset over our small town that turned the sky blood red. Maybe she would prefer to receive other attention instead of plain texts and i’m somehow not able to connect with her on that level, because the relationship was not yet intimate enough. I also wonder what she actually expects in a relationship or what it should provide.

Low-key, low emotional intensity connection may be her comfort zone -- if you are interested in pursuing a relationship with her, that may help keep the connection open. Be chill (I don't mean cold, more "low key"), and keep "begging" or "desperate" or "emotionally needy" vibes out of your connection attempts. Maybe it goes back to your realization that you might have been reaching out less for her and more for you? Working on yourself and your own emotional neediness, dialing that down, can only benefit a relationship. Sorry if I've asked and forgotten -- are you working with a therapist or counselor?

I still don’t understand how to set the right boundaries because there isn’t a lot of communication going on at the moment. One thing i could think of would be, despite everything that’s happening, we can still see each other at least every two weeks, that we can talk to each other more deeply. But i don’t know whether her mental state even allows this, or what state she is in right now. Does she have good days, is she depressed and can no longer cope with her everyday life or is she just pushing me aside because she can or i let her? Or... is she investing in a different relationship and just simply disinterested?

She doesn’t live far away, so sometimes I just think about driving by and asking for a short walk. However, I don’t think something like that would help much if she already told me that we shouldn’t meet for the time being, until she sorted things out in her life.

A real boundary is something that is 100% under your control and is a rule for yourself to follow. It isn't an ultimatum, a demand, or something you do to change someone else's behavior.

A real boundary isn't dependent on anyone else doing anything, and doesn't make anyone else do anything.

In terms of your thought that a boundary could be "we see each other every two weeks", what part of that is under your control, and what part is not under your control? If any part isn't under your control, then it isn't a real boundary -- it's a request, or desire, or maybe even a "rule for the relationship" that you hope will produce results you want.

What might be a real boundary? You can brainstorm here.

Respecting her request not to meet, and working on your own emotional health, while trying low-key not-in-person communication (sending photos) seems like the best way to play the cards you've been dealt at the moment.

[Pook075]

What might be a real boundary? You can brainstorm here.

To give a little more clarity, think in absolutes for your life...things you're determined to live by.  For example:

- Whenever I leave the house, I go through the same checklist that I made in my mind 30+ years ago.  Do I have my keys, wallet, digital device, and do I need to grab a drink?  Once I check off those 4 things, I can leave.  If not, I go back and get what's missing.

- If I'm out of creamer or sugar, I'll be grumpy the next morning because of sub-par coffee.  It throws my whole morning off.
 So when I'm out or very low, I always go to the store the evening prior to grab it...even if I'm exhausted and really don't want to.

- If my BPD adult child is dysregulated, I'll listen quietly and offer support/empathy.  If she starts to yell, I'll try to calm her down by speaking slowly and relating to her situation.  If the yelling becomes directed at me, I'll tell her that I don't want to argue and I'm going to walk away for a few minutes. 

I do these things every time, in the same way, so she knows what she'll get in that situation.  The initial focus is on her and helping if possible, but my boundaries kick in to keep me safe (physically and mentally).

The first few things you wouldn't think of as "boundaries" since they only involve me.  But they're my personal absolutes and I live by them...however silly they may be.  The first one kicked in last week, my BPD ex was here and we were going to haul off some trash, but I didn't have my wallet or my phone.  She said to get in the truck, I don't need it.  That's my decision though, not hers.  So I went inside and grabbed my things before leaving.

Does that make sense?

[ZenZen]

Good evening kells76 and Pook075

These are absolute gems of advice for me, thank you very very much! :D

That being said, it sounds like you'd like to keep trying to connect with her?

Yes for now I still want to connect with her. As i already wrote, she said that it is nice that i still reach out to her - so I take her word and she just can't bring her self up reaching out to me or responding, for whatever reason. I also think that if she didn't want to have anything to do with me anymore, she would tell me and would end the relationship for sure. And if the things are completely different and I get cheated on, than I still can walk away and mean it, not letting me hurt.
This situation, as bad as it is, has once again brought me closer to myself. I have a healthy sleep rhythm again, have banned the last drops of alcohol from my life and I am going through life calmer and more active than ever. No matter how it ends, I’ve gained these things and I think there’s still a lot I can take with me, so I’m staying.
Personally, I don’t really understand why people who encounter such situations(after few weeks of dating - not talking about years of relationship or marriage), are angry about pwBPD and develop a desire for revenge. If you take a different perspective on things, then you will see that people like these can teach important lessons that you should almost be grateful for.

In a "generally normal" relationship, you might be able to have that conversation with her, about what each of you "should" do.

That sounds true, as she told me right in the beginning that she is not quite capable of sharing her feelings, because she is afraid of being despised or labeled. She doesn’t want to give her partner any power over her if she tells too much. The partner could abuse it.
So a clarifying conversation will probably never take place. I was thinking more about that she may give me a few hints when it was too much, or too little, or when it was just right.

Sometimes we can be inadvertently invalidating.
Take a look at our Don't Be Invalidating workshop and we can talk through it back here. It could be really helpful in your situation.

Actually I got that kind of thing from the internet.
There were some suggestions by a person who suffers from episodes of depression and gave some kind of advice what he/she might wanted to hear or read when he/she isolates. That was one of it. But i get your point and it sounds reasonable for me. As I just scrolled through the workshop for a short glimpse :

Philosophizing and cliches - „time heals all wounds“

I know this from personal experience and it’s always dumb when someone comes up with such things and I guess I did the same to her X.x Now I feel stupid a bit, but more educated and reflected.

Sorry if I've asked and forgotten -- are you working with a therapist or counselor?

I once in a while meet a professional trauma therapist. She also works with pwBPD and I was hoping she could give me some answers or advice. We also talk about general things that interests me about myself and how i can understand them. For example, the relationship patterns that i keep looking for and finding unconsciously. There is definitely a reason why I ended up in this situation. And I have to be honest to myself and undergo thoughts of why I am still into this. Did we ever had anything substantial? Maybe we just connected because she was lost, desperate for stability which she can not hold on to and me who wants to have a deep relationship, in which I can care, give love and share memories to become THAT special person to someone? I’ve thought about things like that and different other possible scenarios, but it may be infinitely more complex than my mind can comprehend. But i should stop question every detail and slowly but surely return to a more normal perspective, because at the moment I only see the illness and no longer the woman I got to know and love. I don’t think that does justice to any person, whatever illness afflicts them. In truth everyone wants to be treated like a normal human being, with love and respect.

Respecting her request not to meet, and working on your own emotional health, while trying low-key not-in-person communication (sending photos) seems like the best way to play the cards you've been dealt at the moment.

That is an absolute nice advice and i am glad that you shared it with me. I do it now less often. Trying to reach out when it feels right and heed your advice too.
And if in the end everything doesn’t help, then at least I was able to support, even if it was just a short period of time, and mean well for someone who is currently in a very bad place in their life.

The short basic course on boundaries of you both also showed me what that actually means. For me, I always had more in mind like „parental“ rules or re-education measures, which was pretty wrong.
However, to perhaps draw a first boundary, even though I try everything and only want the best for her, I can’t and don't have to bear everything and sooner or later if things don’t work out in a few weeks/ months, I will continue my life on my own to look for what I really deserve and need. And sometimes you also have to say goodbye for the sake of the other person so that they can head on a new journey.