I'm new to the BPD world and lost on how to navigate in it.

[Stupified]

I have condensed this as much as I could...
A few years back my son eloped to a woman I has only met once. Nothing seemed "off" until I felt she did a 180 in personality the next time we talked. A couple years have gone by during which my son would always have me on speaker phone when he entered the house. She would monopolize the conversation until I was able to end the call. At one point, my son told me that I need to be carful with what I text, because she reads them all. Last year, they had a baby. I was to visit shortly after and I was given 20+ rules to follow. When I visited I abided by the rules and chalked, what I didn't agree with, up to new parent  nerves. During my out of state visit, I felt like I could do nothing right accept sit there and be quiet. I hated to leave my son and granddaughter, but I was relieved to eventually return home. Fast forward 6 month. My son is stationed out of the country for the next year. My daughter in law stayed behind with the baby. I showed my support by sending a text once a day, sometimes less. There was never an expectation to text back, nor did I text more than once. I have done this for both my boys for years. It was my way of showing love and support. After a month, I received a blistering message from her to stop. The message she sent was so strong that I felt blindsided and attacked. I tried to be graceful and empathic with my response even though I was still reeling, but she continued to attack and chastise me. I refrained from texting anyone (her or my two boys) for a week. Then, out of the blue, She stated I was "weaponizing" my ex-in laws (whom I am still very close to) and then came the ultimatum... She demands that I seek mental health provider before she resumes communication. Her closing was "There will be no response to this message".  Feeling completely lost, I contacted my ex-MIL to see if she could clarify what my daughter in law may have meant. She was just as confused as I was. Unbeknownst to my daughter in law, I had seen a counselor before she began demanding it. I feel her request is completely out of line and I have not told her that I have seen anyone yet. I went through the whole scenario with my counselor, who assured me I did nothing wrong. I didn't feel I had done wrong, but it was nice to receive validation. He did tell me to read up on BPD since that is his best guess of what he believes my daughter in law has. I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells", which had helped put things in perspective. My counselor told me to ask to see if I could facetime with my grand daughter for 2-5 minutes. She is 8 months old. I have not received any photos or videos in over a month. I asked for few minutes of face time to see my grand daughter and It seemed at first my daughter in law was willing to accommodate me, and then began accusing me of multiple things, and demanded again that I seek mental health. I'm guessing this is DARVO in action. I'm at a loss on how to proceed. I want to defend myself and set my boundaries, but I am not confident I can do that without it escalating even more. Speaking with my son is nearly impossible. She monitors his social media and reads all his texts. With the time difference, I can not speak to him unless he calls me.
How do I take part in my grand daughters life when she lives in a different state and my daughter in law is obstinate?

[Notwendy]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I have an elderly widowed mother with BPD, so I understand how challenging this is. From what I have read- you are at a distance from your DIL and the baby and what you are seeking is contact long distance from the baby.

My BPD mother also read all emails to my father and listened in on our phone calls so yes, whatever you say to your son - assume your DIL sees and hears it too.

First, put the responsibility for choosing this relationship back to your son. He chose this woman and abides by her "rules". Why this is - is baffling- but my father did this too. While I had perceived my mother as the one with the "problem"- I also realize my father was a part of this agreement too. I am sure he was conflicted about staying vs leaving, especially if kids are involved.

Why this woman turned on you is probably not possible to figure out but these types of things are often "projections" of her own feelings. My best guess is that your son's deployment is stressful for your DIL. This long absence may also stress the marriage. Your son, on the other hand, is getting some distance from the situation. Read about Karpman triangle dynamics. You DIL may have put you in "persecutor" position. From what I have seen, pwBPD take on victim perspective.

If I were you, I would not reveal that you are seeing a counselor. That fact could be twisted by your DIL as "proof" you are the one with the problem. This is your own personal information.

Unfortunately, there is little you can do to get your DIL to allow contact with your GD. My BPD mother has a need to be in control. If she knows I am attached to something that she "has"- this is what she controls. Understandable that this is difficult. One thought is to take a long term perspective. For a pwBPD, emotions can change. There has been a change in your son's marriage with him being away for a long time.

If your DIL is like my mother, pushing her for what you want- time with your GD is likely to result in her staying her ground more. What she is doing is irrational but feelings aren't rational.

Boundaries are not something to put on someone else. Boundaries are how you respond to when someone violates yours. Also, don't verbally defend yourself- it becomes a circular argument. If your DIL feels like a victim, to her, this is true. She may accuse you of something but that doesn't make it true. One idea is to respond politely but without emotions to her texts. Respond politely if she texts you but don't text her otherwise. If she sends a nasty text- ignore that one or reply with something neutral. Don't add emotional fuel to the drama.


Keep on with your own life, texting your children as usual. Keep seeing your counselor for support.

[HappyChappy]

.... she did a 180 in personality the next time we talked.
...
.... She would monopolize the conversation until I was able to end the call. At one point, my son told me that I need to be carful with what I text, because she reads them all.

This suggests she needs total control, for some reason. There are many reasons for this, not just BPD. So ignore the label, address the symptoms. Why does she need such control ? What has spooked her ?

... I'm guessing this is DARVO in action. I'm at a loss on how to proceed.

It does sound like D.A.R.V.O., so J.A.D.E. is often a good defence. I.e. don't Justify,  Argue, Defend or Exploin.

I hope that helps, if not, I’m sure others on here will offer up alternatives. We’re all different so  "Different strokes for Different folks" and all that. 

[HappyChappy]

PS: After reflecting …

…. My son is stationed out of the country for the next year. My daughter in law stayed behind with the baby. I showed my support by sending a text once a day …. I have done this for both my boys for years. It was my way of showing love and support.

That would be my way to show love too, but it’s not everyone’s. You may (or may not) want to google 7 ways to show love without words.
Ironically, we all just communicate using American English on here, so it does encourage us to “read too much into” the written word. Maybe your DIL is doing that too ? “Paranoid Android” ?

But if you prefer American movies, as I do, then maybe things have just got “Lost in Translation” or someone is stuck in “Ground Hog day” ? Who knows, but don’t beat yourself up trying to guess. That’s what your DIL might be doing, currently. We've all done it, it's human.

“A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" meaning, people fight silly wars over things lost in translation. West Side Story stole that idea from Shakespeare and put it into a music in a Modern day setting. But if you tell me I'm wrong - that's fine by me. But probably not your DIL, currently.

The most important thing (to me) is that you and your DIL both can reach out to someone.  But I'm not going to lie, I don't like musicals even though some people think I'm gay (I'm not, but there's no shame in being gay, imo). But do reach out on here, the Mods are trained in providing advice, I'm not I'm better at dealing with A&E cases

[Stupified]

@Notwendy - Yes, I am asking for long distance contact. The baby is only 8 mo., so I would only be watching her roll around, but it would be something.
It is truly baffling how my son has handled the shifting behaviors. My closest friends ask why he stays and I refer to the rose-colored glasses. It's something so many of us do when we have deep affection for someone. Eventually the behavior may wear on him to take them off long enough to evaluate his situation.
I look forward to reading the Karpman book. I haven't heard of it before and anything to help me understand and navigate is always appreciated.
Also, thank you for your opinion about the counselor. It is something I have gone back and forth with for some time now.
Control does seem to be her go to. I agree she may hold contact back even longer if I push on. I asked for time, she said, and so I am leaving it at that for now.
Pre-BPD knowledge, my emotions would have taken over and I would have attempted to defend myself against accusations. Post-BPD knowledge, I have learned to set the emotions aside and not take it so personally. I have a long way to go with learning, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to share my story, read others, and know that I am not alone in the struggle.

@HappyChappy - I have thought about the why every day. I agree her behavior is control related. I can only guess that it has something to do with her previous marriages/children and maybe a fear that this family will be the same as the last. She is estranged from her family as there some issues with her mother and she may be projecting onto me.
I will need to keep J.A.D.E. in mind going forward. It is hard to avoid all of those things in conversation, but I am understanding why it’s helpful.
You’re right my messages were not her cup of tea. Had she said that or my son told me, I would have immediately stopped. But, she waited until she blew up before letting me know. I will absolutely google the 7 ways to show love without words! Thank you for that suggestion!
I believe there is A LOT lost in translation. She makes assumptions and I try to validate her feelings about it, but then I am accused of having an attitude. How people perceive the tone of the message is a huge disadvantage in communicating electronically.
My DIL speaks to my son daily and also goes to counseling once a week. She had a limited pool of friends, but seems to be very chatty with them. I have several concerned family and friends that I can speak to, but very few of them have had experiences with BPD tendencies. That is why I turned to Welcome to Oz. I needed the extra support from people who know how challenging it can be.
I’m not a fan of musicals myself, but I’ll still watch them on occasion. If I have any A&E questions, you’ll be the 1st I ask! LOL

So true, we are all different. Every little bit helps though!  Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me!

[Notwendy]

My best guess for the trigger for your DIL's behavior is your son being stationed out of the country while your DIL and baby stayed behind. This is a stressor for any relationship- even without BPD. An emotionally mature couple would manage this in a mature way.

PwBPD have difficulty managing their emotions. Your y son isn't abandoning his wife but she may be feeling it this way. You'd expect a wife to be empathetic to the situation- but pwBPD take victim perspective and so she may react as if this is being done to her.

I observed this kind of reaction when my father was ill. The dynamics between my parents were such that a lot of his attention was on my BPD mother and as an emotional caretaker. With the illness, he wasn't able to take on as much of that role. The reason was obvious- he wasn't taking away his attention on purpose. One would expect my mother could see that. However her reaction was that she wasn't getting the same level of emotional support as before and her BPD behavior escalated.

It doesn't necessarily make sense. You didn't do anything to your DIL but she may be projecting her feelings on you or anyone else. Another possibility is that she is trying to maintain control as a way to manage anxiety. This may not make sense either. Once my mother yelled at me for where I put the trash bins out for collection- and I had to move them 3 inches over. Another time she wouldn't let me put the trash in the bin so I put it in my car and drove to a dumpster. None of this makes sense- it was a need for control. She maintains control over things that don't make logical sense but it's the control aspect.

Likely your DIL is anxious about the separation and may feel hurt and abandoned. But she doesn't feel her emotions as coming from her. Someone or something else is causing them and she's projecting her feelings at that.

This doesn't mean you tolerate abusive behavior. I agree to not reacting to it though. That just adds fuel to the drama. Your son can be the main contact with her and the baby. On your part- don't react either way- don't go no contact, don't push for contact.

 Keep your usual "grandma" routine. If you sometimes send a baby toy, or outfit- go ahead and do that without expectations or to an expense it will be difficult for you. Your DIL may use it or throw it away. I send my mother gifts sometimes. Sometimes she likes them, sometimes not. I make sure to not invest more than I could care about if she decides she doesn't like it.

Hopefully, this is not a long term decision on your DIL's part. Unfortunately, you are in what she may see as a competitive position for your son's attention. It's not logical. Love for a family member is different from love for a spouse. One can have both. However, for your DIL, she may perceive you as a threat. This is your son's relationship to work out and it's on him to decide about how to deal with her behavior.

[HappyChappy]

.... But, she waited until she blew up before letting me know ....

... My DIL speaks to my son daily and also goes to counseling once a week ....

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this, it isn't fair on you, but the best things in life are worth fighting for, so don't give up hope.

Often someone with "shell shock" now called PTSD will "explode" if they feel cornered and isolated. I'm a pacifist, but every pacifist needs a good defence programme when isolated and cornered. Mine is to tell jokes with emotional intelligence, because if someone lacks that, they will struggle to judge tone, and force me to agree my joke must be an insult and apologies. Which I gladly do, but others, who can't "judge the room" will come out guns ablazing if cornered. Doesn't make them bad, or dangerous - so long as you don't corner them and force them to do things they believe are wrong. We all have different beliefs.

There are many, many conditions that make folk lose "emotional intelligence" someone with NPD will never have this. It doesn't make them bad, but don't expect them to change their mind, or take "no" for an answer.

The great news is your DIL doesn't sound like she lacks "emotional intelligence" all the time. Maybe it is just trauma ? She speaks daily to you DIL and is getting counselling. That's exceptionally hard for someone with BPD, easier for someone with "trauma". So you should be proud of you DIL for managing this, I've recovered from trauma, but can still get triggered. But I know how to deal with it now. Empathy is very healing for all folk, even those that don't like talking or lack  "emotional intelligence". So I'm sure you DIL just needs to know you're on her side, there if needed for when her personal war on [insert various wars here] has ended. But it's best to let a councillor deal with that, they're trained to avoid the triggers and use all the right words. Mine use to crack jokes, but she did point out some people with a personality disorder will attack pacifists or anyone that doesn't agree with them. That's cowardice , imo. 

I'm sure you'll get there. But it's a "long and winding road" even if it's a yellow brick road. Peace be with you, and I'm proud of your DIL, her war sounds every bit as difficult as mine was. Only I didn't have family to support me, I was reliant on the kindness of strangers and friends. This forum was a safehouse for me. But I have been told off for telling jokes about American things or supporting pacifists. But I'd rather they attack my punchline, than punch the clown . Which is fair enough. 

[Stupified]

I meant to respond sooner, but work/home life has been busy these past few weeks.

@Notwendy

I agree it is a stressor for her that my son is not physically available. I have experience with deployments while I was married and thought I was being supportive to her. I was not aware
 of BPD at the time and have since realized that what was helpful and comforting to me, is the opposite for her.

I can only imagine how difficult it must’ve been for your family while your father was ill.  Providing him the rest that he needed and keeping your mother at ease was surely a challenge.

It really struck a cord talking about projecting. I feel strongly that she does this with me. I feel I don’t have a choice, but to tolerate the abusive behavior to try to keep the attacks, via text, to a minimum. Many of the things she brings up in these texts, make no sense to me. It’s a struggle because I want to understand what she means, but I’m unable to ask because it will just escalate the situation more.

Being in a different state, too far of a drive for a weekend trip, I don’t have a grandma routine. I have sent packages for my DIL and the baby, but I never know is she receives them. I’d love to send more, but like you, I send what I can and I make sure there is not a deep personal emotional investment.

I really appreciate you sharing your views and experiences with me. Thank you so much!



@HappyChappy

It’s a struggle to keep hope alive right now, in regards to my DIL, but I am trying.
 
The last thing I want to do is corner my DIL. Considering her reactions lately, she may think that I am. She is coming at me with a vengeance. I asked for a few minutes of facetime with my granddaughter and she went from “That’s reasonable” to another attack. Going as far as sending a note from my sons account as if he wrote it. Although I know my son didn’t write the message, I don’t know if he has seen it, or agrees with it.

I do believe trauma is the cause of a lot of her reactions. I feel that I have been empathetic and understanding, more so after reading about BPD, but a level of trust goes with that and I don’t feel that she trusts that I am genuine. I do realize that for someone with trauma, myself included, trust takes time. I pray we get there one day.

I’m sorry people have attacked your punchlines. I agree, better the punchline than the clown. I was an actual clown for a time during college, so I can relate to your statement

[Notwendy]

@Notwendy

I can only imagine how difficult it must’ve been for your family while your father was ill.  Providing him the rest that he needed and keeping your mother at ease was surely a challenge.

I was naive to BPD at the time and so reacted to her behavior. It made the drama worse.

I understand the priority of a marital bond. I also don't believe it is the only bond one can have but it seems that way in BPD thinking. I assumed the parent- child bond was unshakable until my BPD mother somehow had the power to disrupt it.

I think staying neutral is the best way to not antagonize the situation.