"How will you fix this?"

[usagi]

Hello forum =)

Now that I'm living on my own but still working through things with my partner I'm putting a lot of thought into what comes next.  I was talking with my partner this weekend and she basically posed the question "how will you fix this?"  She stated that there's nothing she can do to change things between us so it's all on me.

I had some positive experiences with changing how I engaged (or stopped engaging) with her when she was dysregulated.  Previously I'd try to challenge her thinking while she was angry or I'd get wrapped up in her statements and insults.  When I can manage to stay above all of that things generally go better between us.  She may be very angry at the moment but I know that she'll calm down and we can talk through things eventually.  Being able to change how I interact with her when she's angry is what she may see directly.

Another thing that I can change is how I treat myself.  Focusing on what makes me happy and disengaging with the drama are important.  All of that will help me stay above the fray.

I'm using my time apart to really think through what I need to be happy.  At this point I've read enough about how to interact with a pwBPD when they are overwhelmed by their emotions that I know what I should do.  But not standing up for what I need makes that task much harder.

Here are some things that make me happy:

1. My job (sometimes).  I've been lucky enough to find work that I generally find fulfilling.  It's challenging in a positive way and the folks on my team are helpful and friendly.

2. My hobby.  Something I've been doing ever since I was a young lad.  It's an activity that involves other people and I've found a group that I like.  So both the activity and the people are enjoyable and lift me up.

3. My friends.  I have some local friends and others that live far away.  I try to make time to visit with the local ones when I can but probably should do that a bit more often.  The remote ones I text or call sometimes.  Some more often than others.

4. Exercise outdoors.  I like to get my heart rate up when I'm outdoors.  The sounds and smells are therapeutic for me and the physical activity keeps me healthy.  I feel recharged and more relaxed afterwards.

5. My family of origin.  I get along well with my siblings and mom.  I don't live near them so only see them once or twice a year.  Phone calls and video chats are nice.

6. Working with my hands.  I love taking on projects where I get to be up and moving and building things.  If I can do this while being outdoors it's even better.

7.  General theme: being outdoors.  Whether it's a quick walk or going to a national park for a few days, it really helps my mood and makes me feel more connected to the world.

Some of these things I'm just not doing because I don't make time for them (6 and 7).  And, I am not making time for them because I'm caretaking.  Others on this list (1 and 2) are a source of conflict with my partner.  My hobby is viewed by her as a threat to our relationship.  She's gone so far as equating it to an affair.  I think keeping my time that I spend doing it to a reasonable amount of the week is a reasonable request but I'm not going to quit altogether.

I think it would be good for me to refocus on some of these things.

So this is what I can do.  Make sure I'm dipping into all of these things that I enjoy, at least from time to time, and working to change how I can interact with my partner when she's dysregulated.

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[Pook075]

Now that I'm living on my own but still working through things with my partner I'm putting a lot of thought into what comes next.  I was talking with my partner this weekend and she basically posed the question "how will you fix this?"  She stated that there's nothing she can do to change things between us so it's all on me.

This is what I'd push back on...although in a gentle way.  Marriage is compromise and understanding.  You can't fix it unless she's also willing to fix it.  Because you fix it by loving each other and stopping all the arguments, all the blame.  Neither of you are perfect and that's okay.  Both sides need to work in the relationship.

You listed things that you enjoy, and that's a great start- that was the forum's advice once you stepped out on your own.  Doing that stuff helps you find you again outside of the relationship, and ultimately it helps you heal.  All good stuff.

How you fix the marriage is completely different though. In marriage, you put her first...as she puts you first.  Two become one; that's the fix.  That means having honest conversations about what both of you need from each other; where each of you can compromise and what each of you need to stand strong on.  Arguments happen because you guys can't talk out that stuff in a productive way- that's one obvious thing that must be fixed.

What else needs to be fixed before you can have a happy marriage once again?  Dig deep and explore that over time.  There are answers there once you're ready to look, and they're answers that work for both of you.

[usagi]

Thanks Pook075,

Yup I totally agree with your sentiment.  Healthy relationships take both partners working together.

One thing I think I could ask of her is to take on more of the parenting tasks, at least when she and I are both together.  She gets frustrated with how I interact with her son sometimes.  This has been the source of contention for some time.

I've asked her to try to tone down the language when she's expressing her feelings to me.  At the end of December she said that is something she could do but has shown that it's too much for her in the moment.  Later she defends it by saying that it's too difficult to have to moderate your language when you are upset.

Something that I think would help is if she would accept me not engaging with her when she's angry.  I can listen to what is making her upset but any dialog after that just leads to more arguments.

Basically what is needed to repair things is to balance out the positive and negative.  I'm convinced there's some tolerable ratio there.

Conflicts with her son (both from me and her) and her tear at the relationship.

[once removed]

I've asked her to try to tone down the language when she's expressing her feelings to me.  At the end of December she said that is something she could do but has shown that it's too much for her in the moment.  Later she defends it by saying that it's too difficult to have to moderate your language when you are upset.

this seems like something you can stick to, remind her of (especially after the fact, in a time of calm), and see some progress on it, but its probably something she will always struggle with.

Something that I think would help is if she would accept me not engaging with her when she's angry.  I can listen to what is making her upset but any dialog after that just leads to more arguments.

youve given us a lot to work with in terms of how things play out with her. how does this go, specifically?

im assuming she gets worked up, the conversation goes in circles, you try to exit the conversation. it could be a matter of heading off the conversation before she gets worked up to the point where she cant stop, or it could be a matter of "the best way" to exit the conversation. it could be both...sometimes trying to exit can trigger "getting riled up".

[usagi]

youve given us a lot to work with in terms of how things play out with her. how does this go, specifically?

Thank once removed,

This has taken different forms.  If she starts raging and name calling I've tried two approaches.  One is to physically walk away.  The other is to not speak.  Walking away lead to her trying to block me and becoming physical so I've backed off on that approach.  Not speaking has worked in the past.  One time I outright told her that I wasn't going to argue with her and that's all I would say.  She said "### you and your boundaries" and slammed the door.  The next day we were able to talk though what happened.

Where I tend to get roped into the drama is when she asks me pointed questions.  "Why do you value your hobby more than me?"  The answer is that I don't.  If I say that it just continues the argument.  I could just not answer.  I could try to be more sophisticated and try to validate her feelings somehow without actually answering the question.

Things run off the rails when I get dragged in.  Lately she'll sort of block me in a room and yell at me.  It makes it hard to be effective when I feel trapped and she's screaming at me.

[Pook075]

I switched your replies around a little bit to show a pattern here.

Something that I think would help is if she would accept me not engaging with her when she's angry.  I can listen to what is making her upset but any dialog after that just leads to more arguments.

[/quote]

The goal here to solve EVERYTHING is not disengaging while she's angry; it's getting to the point where she's no longer angry.  And I know that sounds impossible at the moment, an obstacle too big to conquer, but unless she's angry at absolutely everyone in her life, then we know it's possible.

Think your last argument out on a micro level...I mean second by second.  One of you gets home, the other is there, and there's an initial interaction.  Are you excited to see each other?  Is there a warm greeting and maybe a quick hug/kiss?  Do the two of you start planning on how to spend the evening together and what needs to be done?

You see, when you walk into a room expecting doom and gloom, your attitude is conveying doom and gloom.  So is hers.  And all it takes is the smallest thing to ignite her powder keg because she's receiving the wrong emotions.

My point is, before the yelling, before the worst of the worst, there's opportunity for actual change so she never reaches that nuclear level.  The screaming comes as a result of what happens beforehand...things that both of you might completely overlook.

I've asked her to try to tone down the language when she's expressing her feelings to me.  At the end of December she said that is something she could do but has shown that it's too much for her in the moment.  Later she defends it by saying that it's too difficult to have to moderate your language when you are upset.

If I say, "Usagi, you need to tone down the language when you talk to me," what's the first thing that comes to mind?

Most people would think I'm blaming you, it's a "you-thing" that has to change before we can talk together.  And when I blame you, then you're going to be defensive and find reasons why it's actually my fault we can't speak like civil adults.  Again, that can be the spark that lights the powder keg.

A more productive approach would be me saying, "Usagi, I understand that you're upset, but I don't respond well to that type of language.  It makes me upset and my brain just shuts down, like it's telling me to flee.  That's something I struggle with and I need your help to work on that."

By making it about me, it's giving you something emotional to relate to.  Maybe in retrospect, you'll even see that you have some fault in there as well, maybe you realize that it's not the most productive way to have a conversation.

This comes before the 'spark' that blows everything up into a raging argument.  Again, the argument is not the actual problem; it's the stuff that leads up to it that's the problem.

One thing I think I could ask of her is to take on more of the parenting tasks, at least when she and I are both together.  She gets frustrated with how I interact with her son sometimes.  This has been the source of contention for some time.

Now we can do a little bit of work here.  How can you tell her that you struggle to parent her son, without judging her or judging her son?  This is obviously a conversation for when she's calm and stable, and it's a big one you must have.  Where do you start though so you're heard and you're not blaming?

[once removed]

"Why do you value your hobby more than me?"  The answer is that I don't.  If I say that it just continues the argument.  I could just not answer.  I could try to be more sophisticated and try to validate her feelings somehow without actually answering the question.

right. plus, its not like you havent answered it before.

have you heard about the concept of asking validating questions?

in essence, just asking someone a validating question can in itself be validating, because it demonstrates active listening. but it also avoids "fixing" (in the pejorative sense) a problem for someone. an example might be when a therapist asks a patient "and how does that make you feel", except, you know, if you use that particular example in most contexts, youll "sound like a therapist".

this is full of more practical (everyday conversation type) examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

you may likely have asked her this before, but how do you think (for example) "why do you feel i value my hobby more than you?" and then just listening might play?

[usagi]

I can see your point Pook075.  There is definitely a lot that can happen before the screaming starts.  Some of that I could certainly take ownership of.  For example, the argument that lead to me leaving the house could have gone much differently if I would have welcomed her home after she walked home.  Show her that I was concerned that she got upset, either with words or body language.  Instead I was up in the bedroom keeping my distance because in the moment she said that she didn't want to see me.

The problem was that in that instance I was looking for something from her and felt hurt that it blew up in my face.  I was worried about work and expressed that to my partner.  She immediately got angry when she realized I was talking about work instead of her.

I can't prevent her from getting angry.  It's going to happen.  The only thing I have control over is how I react to that anger.

[usagi]

you may likely have asked her this before, but how do you think (for example) "why do you feel i value my hobby more than you?" and then just listening might play?

I've asked her about this.  She's responded that she feels I spend too much time doing it.  The other aspect is that she read some of my text messages from last summer where I was talking to some of my friends from the group about what was going on.

So I re-arranged my schedule again and promise that I don't talk to my friends about what's going on in our relationship.

[usagi]

My point is, before the yelling, before the worst of the worst, there's opportunity for actual change so she never reaches that nuclear level.  The screaming comes as a result of what happens beforehand...things that both of you might completely overlook.

Sometimes I'm better at this than at other times.  I've had some experiences with her when I see that she's feeling poorly and I do my best to be loving and welcoming to help her come down.  She may still yell and get angry but it usually doesn't last as long and is less intense.

Now we can do a little bit of work here.  How can you tell her that you struggle to parent her son, without judging her or judging her son?  This is obviously a conversation for when she's calm and stable, and it's a big one you must have.  Where do you start though so you're heard and you're not blaming?

We've actually had lots of productive conversations about this.  I realize that any blame I lay at her son's feet is actually picked up by her.  I've explained to her what I do when she's not around and my results.  Sometimes she's receptive and others more judgmental.  She and I both agree that his behavior is sometimes very difficult to deal with.  She also understands that she's had more experience dealing with it than I have.

[Pook075]

Sometimes I'm better at this than at other times.  I've had some experiences with her when I see that she's feeling poorly and I do my best to be loving and welcoming to help her come down.  She may still yell and get angry but it usually doesn't last as long and is less intense.

We all blow it at times and that's okay.  The important part is getting the relationship strong enough where there's some grace involved when certain buttons are pushed.  None of us will ever be perfect and trying to do that is simply 'walking on eggshells' in an unhealthy way.

What you described above, you lead with empathy and the blow-up is less intense, that's just the start of fixing your relationship because it makes her feel safe communicating with you.  Building on that over time is how you stop the arguments and the knee-jerk reactions of judgement.  It feels like a lot of work at first but it's really just a technique to bring the two of you closer together with better understanding of one another.

We've actually had lots of productive conversations about this.  I realize that any blame I lay at her son's feet is actually picked up by her.  I've explained to her what I do when she's not around and my results.  Sometimes she's receptive and others more judgmental.  She and I both agree that his behavior is sometimes very difficult to deal with.  She also understands that she's had more experience dealing with it than I have.

So you've made some progress there as well, which is great.  One thing I've recently done with my ex, whenever there's conflict, is to ask her to solve the problem and going with whatever she comes up with. 

For the kid, for instance, I'd ask, "What do you think I should do when he does this specific thing?"  Then actually do it...in front of her if possible.  If it works, fantastic.  If it fails, well that's sort of fantastic too because now you can have a follow up conversation about what to try next.  Or maybe she steps in when the kid reacts poorly.  But it's a path towards compromising and parenting together.

That's just one path; there are many you can choose from that validates her and makes her feel seen.

I hope that helps!

[Pook075]

I can't prevent her from getting angry.  It's going to happen.  The only thing I have control over is how I react to that anger.

Here's a nugget- what is she angry about?  You would assume the thing she's yelling about, but that's not actually it a good majority of the time.  What she's really angry about is a lot deeper and it's something she probably doesn't talk about directly very often.

[usagi]

Thank you for the encouragement and suggestions about parenting, Pook075.

I think you are right about the anger.  That's probably true of a lot of people.  It can be a very hard emotion to work with.

It's very clear that she wants to be with me.  Understandably, she doesn't want to experience the hurt feelings though.

She's said that it's the defensiveness that is an issue.  I just need to stop that...

[Pook075]

Thank you for the encouragement and suggestions about parenting, Pook075.

I think you are right about the anger.  That's probably true of a lot of people.  It can be a very hard emotion to work with.

It's very clear that she wants to be with me.  Understandably, she doesn't want to experience the hurt feelings though.

She's said that it's the defensiveness that is an issue.  I just need to stop that...

I agree, she's likely angry because the relationship is not running smoothly right now...so she lashes out over things that don't actually matter.

As Once Removed said, validate early and often...even when you don't feel like it.  Dig deeper for her viewpoint and let her take charge more often.  That gives her a better chance of staying regulated and avoids the worst of the behavior.

Again, it's not easy.  Have patience, my friend, and you will get there!

[usagi]

Thank you for the encouragement Pook075 =)

After all of this I am still hopeful.  I realize that I do have some amount of control over the situation.  It just takes practice and some work on my part.

We still see each other fairly regularly.  Going out on a date on Thursday so that's exciting.  We also talk often.

I think that this separation may actually help a bit.  Bring the temp down in the house so that we can reconnect a bit and ease back into things.

I just need to work through what changes we (I) need to make to keep the dynamic different.