Worried I've been Devalued and soon to be Discarded

[firehouse3]

This might be somewhat of a long post, but I'd appreciate if you guys took the time to read it and help me.

I've only known her for 8-9 weeks.  Things started electric between us.  We both thought we found our soulmate.  Not long after we first met she told me she was 'very needy'.  I didn't mind because I have anxious attachment and I understand that.  But now after 2 months I'm quite sure she has BPD.  All the signs are there.

 I had to text her every 30-45 minutes, or I hear it from her.  First it was unhappy emojis or 'I miss you' texts, then it became angry emojis and hostile texts if I took too long to message her something.  She finds ways to get offended by me over the smallest and oddest things.  Arguing with her feels hopeless, it's like when she's made up her mind about something that's what she's going to believe no matter what even when I confront her with reality.

Every few days she would ask me 'your doing this different, does it mean you love me less?'

 Like she'll tell me 'why did you stop loving me' and I'll give her a bunch of recent examples, in the last few days, that showed her beyond any reasonable doubt that I loved her and she still doesnt believe it.  She wants more proof.

  Genuinely acknowledging her feelings, genuinely acknowledging I acted in an unkind way (even if relatively tiny by the standards of most people), apologizing profusely does little to help.  It's like when she gets upset at something she has all this built up steam of anger inside that she needs to let out first before she can begin to see clearly.  And it can take a day or two for that steam to come out.

We've had several fights already. 

But we had a pretty big one about 9 days ago, last Friday.  She was texting me about a drink she likes, and some of the ingredients were spinach and mint, two things I really don't like.  So I texted her 'sounds terrible, tbh'.

She blew up immediately.  "I'm talking to you about something I like.  Do you hate me?  Do you need time away from me?  What is this?  What was that?"

So I immediately apologized.  "Oh hey, I'm sorry.  It was kind of rude of me to use  those words.  I didnt like some of the ingredients, but I should have used different words to say how I was feeling.  I didn't mean to offend you.  I'm sorry."

It wasn't enough for her of course.  The fight continued into the next day.  That afternoon we texted again.  She told me "What am I suppose to do?  Just forget this?"  I learned just recently that BPD people have trouble letting things go.

 So I gave her an example of how she offended me 2 days earlier, when she laughed at my goodnight text because she was angry that I didnt message her for an hour before just saying good night, but I overlooked it and forgave her and let it go.  She immediately accused me of 'making it about myself again'.  I told her she was the person who made everything about herself.  And she shut down.

She gave me the silent treatment for about 6 hours until the evening.  Then she messaged me back asking me if I had sent a hand written letter we had talked about to her and  a couple other things.  Then she said good night (at 6pm when we usually say it around 9-10) and that was it for the day.

The next day I could tell she was still irritated, but things improved.  The day after that things were pretty much back to normal again.  That evening she made a sexual joke and we ended up sexting eachother for almost 2 hours, our first time doing something like that.  So I felt really good about where we were. 

But I'm worried I've being/been devalued. And soon to be discarded 

Since that fight I've sent her a couple memes and if anything she just seemed annoyed by them.  I made a another joke and she found a weird reason just to be annoyed by it and not find it funny. 

She doesn't use heart or kiss emojis as much as she use to.  She doesnt respond to my messages of affection for her like she use to.

In the beginning she asked me to text her while she's in her college classes.  She use to respond to me within like 30 minutes now it takes her 1-2 sometimes even 3 hours to respond back.

Have I been devalued?  Or is it possible she just feels more comfortable with me now and doesnt need all the lovey dovey texts, emojis etc anymore?  tbh I kind of feel that way myself with her.  Like we know we admire eachother, she really doesnt have to say it anymore, but I'm worried because I'm sure she has BPD and I'm worried about the devalue and discard stage.

I feel like I can't ask her about this without her blowing up.  I did ask her something like this some time ago and it just annoyed her and made her think our dynamic was failing and I wanted to leave her.

#1 - The double standard bothers me.  If I disappear from text for more then an hour she gets mad, but there's times I'll text her asking something or saying something and she'll disappear for a couple hours, return and ignore my previous text and talk about something else.  And I feel like I can't bring it up without triggering her.  How do I handle this?  Is double standards just something you have to accept with a pwBPD?

#2 - Her first boyfriend was at 18.  They were together for 2 years before he left for a job in another country.  Is this abandonment too old to have caused BPD?  Did this make it worse?  Her last boyfriend cheated on her.  So her only two boyfriends before me both abandoned her.

#3 - How do I bring up BPD to her?  I talked to her about my anxious attachment and she recommended me get help for it.  I just don't know how to talk to her about it without triggering her.

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[tina7868]

Hello firehouse3! Welcome to the forum. I`m sorry about the situation that brought you here, but glad you decided to share your experience with us today.

There seems to be a lot to unpack in your situation. It sounds like you feel on edge because of a change in the way she responds to you. I can relate to that! Having anxious attachment on top of this sort of change can make it seem even more worrisome.

Have you had a chance to read some of the articles on this website? There are many good ressources that touch upon the elements you write about. A particular article comes to mind :
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

What are your thoughts?

How have you been feeling through all of this?

[firehouse3]

I've watched maybe 10 hours of videos about BPD on youtube over the last week, and read so many articles, including the one you just sent.  Thank you for that one.  One point that article made was that pwBPD don't have adult emotional skills.  This is so true about her.  She argues like a spoiled 10 year old, despite being 27.

I can be her emotional caretaker.  I'm just concerned about putting this huge amount of effort into her, only to get discarded.   

But I can be her caretaker.  I had a PTSD veteran dad who exploded over little things, and was physically and mentally abusive.  I learned how to deal with him.  When I got big enough his physical abuse really wasn't a thing anymore.  And I learned to expect and deal with his mental abuse quite well.  Maybe 1/5 incidents resulted in an argument.  The other times I was like 'here he goes again' and I didn't take it personally.  I can do the same with her.

How am I feeling about all of this?

Dealing with her was so weird at first.  I'm a pretty low-key, agreeable person and go way out of my way not to hurt anyone.  But I kept triggering her and it really did a number on me mentally.  It made me feel so horrible that it kept happening, and she would throw me under the bus and make me feel like the worst person in the world.

My blood pressure would be high for days, to the point I felt dizzy.  Never in my life have I upset someone like this, it made me feel so terrible for hurting someone so badly.  I didn't know at the time her reactions were over the top and it wasn't my fault.

But now I know the 3 cs.  An important one being that I didn't cause it, which is going to give me allot of mental relief.

I've read allot of people say that you shouldn't date or marry people with BPD.  The thing is, I feel sorry for her.  It's a mental illness.  She didn't ask to have it or bring it upon herself intentionally.  I have anxious attachment, which is like a mental illness, and again I didn't ask to have it or bring it upon myself.  My dad gave it to me.  At one point I stressed her out with it and she was angry but she encouraged me to get helped and we continued on.  I feel like she showed compassion to me with my mental illness, it's only right I show compassion to her about her own.

[thankful person]

#1 - The double standard bothers me.  If I disappear from text for more then an hour she gets mad, but there's times I'll text her asking something or saying something and she'll disappear for a couple hours, return and ignore my previous text and talk about something else.  And I feel like I can't bring it up without triggering her.  How do I handle this?  Is double standards just something you have to accept with a pwBPD?

#2 - Her first boyfriend was at 18.  They were together for 2 years before he left for a job in another country.  Is this abandonment too old to have caused BPD?  Did this make it worse?  Her last boyfriend cheated on her.  So her only two boyfriends before me both abandoned her.

#3 - How do I bring up BPD to her?  I talked to her about my anxious attachment and she recommended me get help for it.  I just don't know how to talk to her about it without triggering her.

Hi firehouse and welcome to this amazing supportive community of people who have helped and supported me so so much. I literally changed my name on here from broken person to thankful person. I’m sure you will find lots of help and advice. These are my answers to your questions.

1. Yes you will have to get used to the double standards to an extent, if you’re to remain in this relationship. Your gf is delusional, her memories and perceptions of events may be warped or incorrect or she may be bending the truth of her perceptions because she likes to see you so apologetic. Borderline means on the borderline between milder mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, and hallucinogenic disorders like schizophrenia. Your gf does not see double standards, only that she is the victim and you at times are the perpetrator. The best thing you can do is learn to stand up for yourself peacefully, not apologise when you’re not sorry about anything, and look after your own mental health.

2.Her exes did not cause her to have bpd. Pwbpd either attract us caretakers who may be devoted for years, or people who don’t treat them so well, who won’t put up with the drama or weren’t decent people to begin with. That’s why they have many short lived relationships. They are looking for someone to bend over backwards to please them. Long term it doesn’t make them treat you any better.

3. The advice is always not to bring up bpd. If someone said you were going mad, would you believe them? It’s a lot like that. My wife was diagnosed before we met, underwent some months of dbt which helped her beat self harm and an eating disorder, discharged herself, and considers herself cured. Her bpd behaviour still affects us 10 years later, but I wouldn’t ever mention it even when it affects the children I wouldn’t use the words bpd. Your gf may realise she needs help with anger, depression, paranoia, whatever, she needs to make her own choices as to whether and when to seek help.

I have spent many years wondering if this is the final discard, but it seems like we’re still married and she either loves or hates me (usually the hating lasting months but the loving lasting only days). Sad to say I’m so used to it I’m not as bothered as I once was. I’m mostly here because I don’t want to be away from the children. At the moment my wife doesn’t hate me so I’m just waiting for the next hate cycle. You can learn to better communicate and understand to a large extent. But you can’t change her or convince her to change. Going to therapy for your own issues is a great idea and especially try to seek a therapist experienced with bpd, though this is for you, not her. I do think your experiences with your Dad and the abuse have led you towards this relationship with a mentally unstable person.

I highly recommend the book, stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist, it changed my life. I still listen to the bpd audiobooks on repeat in my car 3 years later. Because it has taken me a long time to fully understand what’s going on here.

[once removed]

short term:

if shes gone distant on you, its a good idea to give space, let her come to you. nothing dramatic or formal, you just dont want to throw messages into the void or ramp up your efforts. dial it back a bit and be prepared to wait it out.

longer term:

Not long after we first met she told me she was 'very needy'

she seems to be, and that fits the mold of someone with BPD traits.

one dynamic you dont want to fall into the trap of is living on the whims of that neediness, or get too caught up in the fallout. loving someone with bpd traits is a delicate dance; you want to be mindful of, and responsive to those "special needs", but to a healthy degree. for example, texting someone every 30 minutes isnt sustainable (for you, for her, or for the relationship), and neither is being in a relationship with someone that you feel sorry for - she lacks adult relationship skills, but you are in a relationship with an adult - it wont "work" to operate in a relationship where shes patronized. 

So I gave her an example of how she offended me 2 days earlier, when she laughed at my goodnight text because she was angry that I didnt message her for an hour before just saying good night, but I overlooked it and forgave her and let it go.  She immediately accused me of 'making it about myself again'.  I told her she was the person who made everything about herself.  And she shut down.

shes right. i did a lot of this myself in my own relationship. a big takeaway from it was that you cant spend a relationship trying to teach a partner how to behave - thats where we tend to drift into codependent tendencies. surface level, responding to a partners issues with us with "remember how you did this and i forgave you?" is messy - it isnt really listening, and its patronizing, and with a needy person, its not going to be heard.

there are a lot of moving parts here, and a lot to learn about the dos and donts of navigating these difficult relationships, so do dive in. short term, shes giving you the business - for the most part, be cool and roll with that; dont double down on what isnt working, let her work through it, and be responsive as she does.

what was the last contact with her like?

[firehouse3]

Hi firehouse and welcome to this amazing supportive community of people who have helped and supported me so so much. I literally changed my name on here from broken person to thankful person. I’m sure you will find lots of help and advice. These are my answers to your questions.

1. Yes you will have to get used to the double standards to an extent, if you’re to remain in this relationship. Your gf is delusional, her memories and perceptions of events may be warped or incorrect or she may be bending the truth of her perceptions because she likes to see you so apologetic. Borderline means on the borderline between milder mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, and hallucinogenic disorders like schizophrenia. Your gf does not see double standards, only that she is the victim and you at times are the perpetrator. The best thing you can do is learn to stand up for yourself peacefully, not apologise when you’re not sorry about anything, and look after your own mental health.

2.Her exes did not cause her to have bpd. Pwbpd either attract us caretakers who may be devoted for years, or people who don’t treat them so well, who won’t put up with the drama or weren’t decent people to begin with. That’s why they have many short lived relationships. They are looking for someone to bend over backwards to please them. Long term it doesn’t make them treat you any better.

3. The advice is always not to bring up bpd. If someone said you were going mad, would you believe them? It’s a lot like that. My wife was diagnosed before we met, underwent some months of dbt which helped her beat self harm and an eating disorder, discharged herself, and considers herself cured. Her bpd behaviour still affects us 10 years later, but I wouldn’t ever mention it even when it affects the children I wouldn’t use the words bpd. Your gf may realise she needs help with anger, depression, paranoia, whatever, she needs to make her own choices as to whether and when to seek help.

I have spent many years wondering if this is the final discard, but it seems like we’re still married and she either loves or hates me (usually the hating lasting months but the loving lasting only days). Sad to say I’m so used to it I’m not as bothered as I once was. I’m mostly here because I don’t want to be away from the children. At the moment my wife doesn’t hate me so I’m just waiting for the next hate cycle. You can learn to better communicate and understand to a large extent. But you can’t change her or convince her to change. Going to therapy for your own issues is a great idea and especially try to seek a therapist experienced with bpd, though this is for you, not her. I do think your experiences with your Dad and the abuse have led you towards this relationship with a mentally unstable person.

I highly recommend the book, stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist, it changed my life. I still listen to the bpd audiobooks on repeat in my car 3 years later. Because it has taken me a long time to fully understand what’s going on here.

1 - It's hard, but I have been standing up for myself.  Its hard because she shuts down when I do stand up for myself.  But she does respect it

2 - I'm thinking to deal with a pwBPD, you either have to extremely compassionate and warm or you have to be extremely uncaring and cold.  Nothing inbetween or you'll leave the pwBPD pretty quickly.  I got the feeling her ex, the one she was with for 2 years, was on the cold side.

3 - Is not bringing it up really the best advice?  I'm glad I know I have anxious attachment.  The feelings it gives me are still there, and I don't think I'll ever be able to never have them or move past them, same as a pwBPD. But I understand them consciously now and try to resist them.  It's a battle in my mind but I'm at least able to wage a battle against an enemy I know about.

I'm sorry for all you had to endure with your wife.  Does she ever show appreciation for you making the huge effort to deal with her illness all these years?

short term:

if shes gone distant on you, its a good idea to give space, let her come to you. nothing dramatic or formal, you just dont want to throw messages into the void or ramp up your efforts. dial it back a bit and be prepared to wait it out.

longer term:

she seems to be, and that fits the mold of someone with BPD traits.

one dynamic you dont want to fall into the trap of is living on the whims of that neediness, or get too caught up in the fallout. loving someone with bpd traits is a delicate dance; you want to be mindful of, and responsive to those "special needs", but to a healthy degree. for example, texting someone every 30 minutes isnt sustainable (for you, for her, or for the relationship), and neither is being in a relationship with someone that you feel sorry for - she lacks adult relationship skills, but you are in a relationship with an adult - it wont "work" to operate in a relationship where shes patronized. 

shes right. i did a lot of this myself in my own relationship. a big takeaway from it was that you cant spend a relationship trying to teach a partner how to behave - thats where we tend to drift into codependent tendencies. surface level, responding to a partners issues with us with "remember how you did this and i forgave you?" is messy - it isnt really listening, and its patronizing, and with a needy person, its not going to be heard.

there are a lot of moving parts here, and a lot to learn about the dos and donts of navigating these difficult relationships, so do dive in. short term, shes giving you the business - for the most part, be cool and roll with that; dont double down on what isnt working, let her work through it, and be responsive as she does.

what was the last contact with her like?

Yeah being dramatic or formal about texting less would trigger her, guaranteed.  She would be like "What do you mean your going to text less?  Are you bored of me?  You need time away from me?  You want to leave me?"  That's what she would say.

I have dialed it back, but I'm pretty sure she's noticed it.  It's the double standard I talked about.  She can take more time to text back then usual, but if I do it, suddenly I'm showing her I don't love her anymore.  Besides just texting slightly less frequently, I have other strategies like to ask her complex questions in text so she can't reply as quickly and our responses will take longer, and she would be OK with that.  Stuff like that.

I feel sorry for her in the sense she has an illness that's dramatically affecting her life.  She told me she cries 3 times a day.  That sometimes she has panic attacks and cries and laughs at the same time.  It sounds like hell going through those emotional mood swings. And I can empathize with her neediness.  I have anxious attachment, and BPD seems very similar to that, if not much worse.

Yeah I get it, I won't argue with her like that again.  I was really just trying to show her I'm not asking her to do anything I haven't done myself, but I get it's not the best way to handle things.   It's just, how do you respond to someone who says something like this"  "Am I just suppose to forgive you and forget what happened?"  I mean, I dunno.  She is an only child, it makes me wonder if she never really learned how to resolve conflict with people very well.

Things have been going good for about 10 days now.  This is the longest we have gone without an argument.  She told me today I was 'The best thing that ever happened in her life'. 

[thankful person]

Is it the best advice not to mention bpd? You be the judge of that. I’ve been on this board for 3 years and I am convinced that it’s nearly always the best advice. However. There is a community of pwbpd’s on Quora who are like a totally different breed from most of our partners here in bpd family. These are people who speak of things like the monster inside them that does things they’re ashamed of. These people apologise to loved ones for their bpd behaviour. They like to own it and connect with each other and write poetry about it etc. Apparently these people are the “conventional” type of pwbpd’s, because they are diagnosed bpd, which is usually down to self harm, suicide attempts etc. being “in the system” with records of their mental health issues. Many of bpd family’s partners do not have these traits and do not believe they have a problem at all, they just like to blame everyone else for their problems (mostly those closest to them) these are called “unconventional” pwbpd’s. My wife seems to be a more rare hybrid where she did self harm, had an eating disorder, and attempted suicide. But at the same time she rarely apologises for anything or admits any wrong doing (like once every two years maybe), and she does not want the bpd label on her. She’s criticises her appearance and her intelligence, but never her personality or behaviour. She sees herself as a mental health warrior and I’m hoping she’ll tell our kids her diagnosis herself when they’re older (she’ll tell them she’s beaten it but they can do their own research). I don’t intend to tell them anything about bpd unless they approach it with me when they’re adults maybe.

So no, she does not appreciate me because she can only see that I am the cause of all her problems, that I have made her suffer and she is unhappy with me and always has been. She has certainly never admitted that her bpd has played a part in our relationship as she doesn’t believe she still has bpd. When we’re getting on she doesn’t act like I’ve ruined her life, we’ve been getting on for the past few weeks. But soon she’ll accuse me of forgetting how miserable she is and that I need to make more effort blah blah.

See what happens if you mention it. Your gf may like the bpd identity. But not many do.

[firehouse3]

I don't know how you did it for so many years.

I think I'm coming to my wits end.  And I always considered myself one of the more forgiving and understanding people there is.

But this is just too much.

We had another big fight yesterday.  It is beyond exhausting and emotionally draining fighting with someone who behaves as a spoiled 10 year old.  I brought up how I was feeling about something,  something small, and she became super defensive.  And as usual being hyper defensive wasn't enough, she quickly countered and went on the offense against me.

I just can't take it anymore.  Her BPD ultra low self-esteem and sense of worth just ruins who she is as a person.  It seeps into so many aspects of her life.  Just bringing up the smallest concern to her and suddenly she thinks you are attacking her as a person, and to feel better about herself she starts attacking me and bringing up things from weeks ago that make no sense.   She finds every strange reason to tie everything back to me looking down on her because of her ultra low self esteem, or trying to leave her because of her abandonment fears

She's holding grudges from weeks and weeks ago, mostly based on imagined wrongs I did to her.  Did the childish silent treatment again.  Has a litany of double standards.

She's come to many so many times 'hey, do you still love me?'  'hey, you did this and it hurt me' and every time I sit down with her and have a calm, loving conversation about it where we talk about how she felt, what I did, and how we can fix it going forward.

But if I bring up something?  My God, I am the devil himself, and she is going to slay me.  I'm so sick of it.

I can't be in a relationship like this.  I can't be with someone who has an inch thick worth of armor on at all times but also wields a flail to attack me.

She's only going to attract and keep (even that's a maybe) abusive men.  I feel sorry for her.  Despite everything, I still love her and I genuinely feel sorry for her.  But there is no path for her where she has a 'happily ever after' relationship

[firehouse3]

I almost got discarded.  This is what she sent me

I feel really sad and even alone, like I know I am not the best showing how I feel or dealing with ppl, their emotions and mines but I genuinely believe I was doing the things pretty right with you, I do put effort in this, I wanted you to be sure about how much I care for you, how much I feel for you and yesterday or whatever when you said that I wasn't even trying I felt terrible, like I can't do it right nothing. I'm really sorry for make you lose your time, you def deserve something and apparently I'm not doing right so. I just want you to be happy and maybe be with someone who truly makes you feel that way.

She messaged me back like 15 minutes later and I think I was able to barely talk her down from discarding me.

She is stuck on absolutely ridiculous assumptions.  She's spending the week with her parents and she thinks I'm jealous she's spending time with them and not me.  You can't convince her otherwise.  She was drawing a picture of me for weeks and when we had an argument I drew a picture of her and gave it to her as a gift, thinking it was something she would like considering she was making one for me.  She thinks I did this to try and undermine her picture and make her look bad.  You can't convince her otherwise.  She keeps bringing these things up over and over and over.

My heart feels like I just ran the boston marathon or something.  It feels beaten up.

[once removed]

Her BPD ultra low self-esteem and sense of worth

it can be one of, if not the hardest aspect(s) of loving someone with these traits.

she does seem pretty challenging.

or whatever when you said that I wasn't even trying

whats she talking about? what happened?

[firehouse3]

it can be one of, if not the hardest aspect(s) of loving someone with these traits.

she does seem pretty challenging.

whats she talking about? what happened?

A couple months ago she had a job where she worked the night shift and didn't get off until like 4 am.  She didn't ask for me to do this, but I stayed up with her and texted her all night to keep her company.  She loved this and even got really sad when I told her a couple times I was just too tired from work to do it.

 Eventually I created a strategy where I slept as soon as I came home from work so I could stay up with her and not go to work the next morning on just a couple hours of sleep, which is what I was doing.

She quit the job eventually.

So present day I wasn't having a good day.  She wasnt at home, but staying with her parents in another city.  So I asked her 'hey do you have time to hang out tonight and do something online'.  She just said "I'm with my parents".

So I was triggered.  Not mad, just bummed out.   Why cou can't make any time to do something with me tonight?  Even after they go to bed?   To be fair I should have told her that, what I was thinking, but I didn't.

It bothered me, so I decided to talk to her about it. 

My exact text

I'm not mad, just feel weird is more like it. 

I was expecting you to say 'yeah we can do something after my folks sleep', or try some way to make it happen, and if not say 'we'll do something another day' etc.

  It's more then I just talked to you when I was with my siblings, I had to stay up really late to do it, when I had to get up really early.  It was a big effort for me.  I just feel sad you didn't try to do the same for me, if I'm being honest.

She immediately defended herself, said I was very wrong for expecting her to do for me what I did for her, and told me never to do anything for her again

She's not wrong, it's not fair or right to expect someone to do for you anything you have done for them.

But I wasn't wrong to feel kind of hurt thinking she didn't want to put in the same effort I was putting into her

My feelings might have been 'wrong' and inappropriate in a purely logical sense.  However I did feel them, and instead of harboring resentment I decided to talk to her about them so they wouldn't become an issue with me later.

It would have been nice if she said
"I understand you feel that way.  But it's not fair to expect me to return any favors you do for me.  I'll do my best to make time for you, but there's no guarantee I can do what you did for me.  It's not fair or right."

I would have got it, understood the error in my thinking,  probably apologized, and moved on with no resentment

Instead I was called weird, manipulative, had several grudges from the past brought up and used against me, told never to do any favors for her ever again, and given the silent treatment.  And yes she interpreted what I said as me saying she never puts any effort into our relationship.  It's the black or white thinking.

I did tell her after that I should have been more clear in what I wanted, which was the core issue.  Not being direct with your partner been have negative consequences.  I should have just told her from the beginning:  "I'm not feeling good today, is there any way you can make some time for me tonight you talk?". Would have solved a bunch of problems

She has apologized since and said I deserve more of her time and she was sorry she hasn't given it to me.  I told her I appreciate the time she does give me

[once removed]

And yes she interpreted what I said as me saying she never puts any effort into our relationship.  It's the black or white thinking.

yeah. she does seem pretty extreme in that regard. i think most of us have experienced similar responses to perceived slights or criticism, but it seems that shes especially sensitive to the slightest hint of it.

i think that its probably reasonable to expect that as a part of her. certainly pick your words mindfully, but dont fall into the trap of walking on eggshells/not raising anything; its gonna happen.

She has apologized since and said I deserve more of her time and she was sorry she hasn't given it to me.  I told her I appreciate the time she does give me

this is a more ideal outcome. when you love someone with bpd, sometimes you can mitigate storms, and ideally, when you build trust and a validating environment, they become fewer and further between and/or shorter lived, but sometimes youve got to wait out the storms, wait for them to get back to baseline, and then choose that time to relationship build/repair.

likewise, be mindful of the trap of giving more of yourself than you prefer, or at least with the expectation of reciprocation. people with bpd are, as a rule, highly needy people. the relationship, and im sure your partner, can offer a lot, but it may never be "fair" in those terms.

[thankful person]

I don't know how you did it for so many years.

But there is no path for her where she has a 'happily ever after' relationship

My dbpdw has been the most influential and powerful person in my life. Long story short we met online and she “stole” me from my ex who I had been in a “stable” relationship with for 15 years and emigrated to the other side of the world with. Even when I left him… I didn’t want to. I would never speak such nonsense outside of this forum, I’d be headed for the loony bin. But that is exactly what happened. It can be extremely difficult to leave a pwbpd and maybe the more mentally unstable you are I guess the harder it is. And the more mentally unstable you are, maybe that makes you not want to as well. Idk. I don’t feel like I need her anymore, I do feel I’ve had enough (of romantic relationships like forever ). I’m here for the kids. But her behaviour truly worsened since she’s had this additional power over me. Some days I feel strong and in control, like I can “handle her”. I truly have learnt so much from bpd fam and also become generally stronger as I’ve got older. Other days she can tear me to pieces and I’m weak and pathetic all over again. Your description of the drawing incident is a perfect example of the “can’t win”. What you do will always be wrong if they feel you’re in the wron they will create evidence even if it’s not even factual. Funny you should say about her thinking you’d be jealous of her with her parents. The worst behaviour I’ve had off my wife recently was when spending a few days with my parents and she was insanely jealous and wouldn’t stop texting, despite the fact my Dad is extremely sick and is basically dying. You’re right I think there is no happy ever after for a pwbpd. But some partners on the forum have learnt to handle them and seem to be doing ok. Today I’d say that’s me. But certainly not every day. Stay strong.

[firehouse3]

I've only known about BPD all of 2 or so weeks.

But there's some things I've noticed.

At first I thought she had NPD, but after digging deeper I feel as though she has BPD, with parts of NPD, which is apparently common.

Like NPD, I feel like BPD behaviors are at their core very unhealthy defense and coping mechanisms people use to deal with deep wounds from childhood.

Splitting is a way for them to not have to accept the possibility that they are a flawed person.  It's an unhealthy defense mechanism they use because of their low self-esteem.  If they see the person that did them wrong, real or perceived wrong, as 100% bad, it alleviates them of all fault or guilt.  They are good and worthy, the other person was evil and unworthy.  It helps them not have to face the reality that they may have been responsible for some or even most issues in the relationship.  Their low-self esteem does anything to avoid even contemplating that possibility.

I have a strong feeling that she is building up a case against me for a discard.  Every time I say or do anything wrong to her, I feel she's remembering it to use as a means to give herself relief when she discards me later.  It really concerns me how many grudges she's holding onto against me.  I can't see them as anything else other then discard ammo she'll use later.

I really don't mind working with her and making this relationship work.  But what will hurt me badly is if I get discarded, and to protect herself she acts like I was evil all along and one of the worst things to happen to her.  That would be really hard on me.

Where did her BPD come from?  She is an only child and she thinks the world of her parents.  This is one of things that initially led me to believe her having NPD, as it's possible they spoiled her, among other things she has told me.  But upon more research I've learned BPD can be developed in only children due to a parent who relies on them too much, or invalidates their feelings, etc.  I thought her high libido might have been caused by a sexually abusive father which in turn gave her BPD, but apparently that's part of BPD anyway.  I'm not sure what caused it with her.

Alot of people might say, while in the world would you stay in a relationship with someone who has a serious personality disorder?  It's the same reason why some people adopt children with disabilities.  It's showing compassion to someone.  I feel like, if I don't do it, who else will?  Maybe an abusive guy?  Some people may think I'm crazy.  'Put your happiness and well-being first'.  Yeah, you could say that about people who adopt children with disabilities.  That they should put their happiness and well-being first.  But there's some people in this life who care about the less fortunate, and will sacrifice a piece of themselves for them.

think that its probably reasonable to expect that as a part of her. certainly pick your words mindfully, but dont fall into the trap of walking on eggshells/not raising anything; its gonna happen.

I've realized I'm talking to someone with a very fragile ego, so things like light teasing etc just are not appropriate with her.  She still finds the oddest things to nitpick me about, but I'm not going to give her any big ammo anymore.

this is a more ideal outcome. when you love someone with bpd, sometimes you can mitigate storms, and ideally, when you build trust and a validating environment, they become fewer and further between and/or shorter lived, but sometimes youve got to wait out the storms, wait for them to get back to baseline, and then choose that time to relationship build/repair.

likewise, be mindful of the trap of giving more of yourself than you prefer, or at least with the expectation of reciprocation. people with bpd are, as a rule, highly needy people. the relationship, and im sure your partner, can offer a lot, but it may never be "fair" in those terms.

They are becoming fewer and further between.  I didn't know what was going on at first, I had never upset someone so much, had so many fights so quickly.  So I did so much research online, and found out about BPD.  Now I get her much much better, now I know what her biggest triggers are, etc etc.

We use to fight every 3-4 days, but recently we went almost 2 weeks without a fight.  I want to make it further until the next one.  Every 2-4 weeks isn't bad.  Every 3-4 days is unsustainable.

Waiting out the storm is tough.  It takes a while for her steam to come out even over small things.  I like to get past arguments quickly and move on, she doesn't.  So I have to respect that and I know how to do better next time it happens.

Reciprocation is difficult with her.  She holds me to a very different standard then she holds herself to.

My dbpdw has been the most influential and powerful person in my life. Long story short we met online and she “stole” me from my ex who I had been in a “stable” relationship with for 15 years and emigrated to the other side of the world with. Even when I left him… I didn’t want to. I would never speak such nonsense outside of this forum, I’d be headed for the loony bin. But that is exactly what happened. It can be extremely difficult to leave a pwbpd and maybe the more mentally unstable you are I guess the harder it is. And the more mentally unstable you are, maybe that makes you not want to as well. Idk. I don’t feel like I need her anymore, I do feel I’ve had enough (of romantic relationships like forever Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)). I’m here for the kids. But her behaviour truly worsened since she’s had this additional power over me. Some days I feel strong and in control, like I can “handle her”. I truly have learnt so much from bpd fam and also become generally stronger as I’ve got older. Other days she can tear me to pieces and I’m weak and pathetic all over again. Your description of the drawing incident is a perfect example of the “can’t win”. What you do will always be wrong if they feel you’re in the wron they will create evidence even if it’s not even factual. Funny you should say about her thinking you’d be jealous of her with her parents. The worst behaviour I’ve had off my wife recently was when spending a few days with my parents and she was insanely jealous and wouldn’t stop texting, despite the fact my Dad is extremely sick and is basically dying. You’re right I think there is no happy ever after for a pwbpd. But some partners on the forum have learnt to handle them and seem to be doing ok. Today I’d say that’s me. But certainly not every day. Stay strong.

Thanks.  It's nice to have this forum and it's support from you and other members.

I'm not mentally unstable I suppose, but I do have pretty serious anxious attachment disorder.  I do think its what makes it so hard for me to leave her, but also its why I'm able to tolerate her.  I just read an article that said the vast majority of BPD partners likely have some kind of personality disorder themselves.

I already have so many jealousy stories with her.  One time I told her I was going on a 2 hour drive with my friend somewhere, and he asked me not to be on the phone when driving because he had alot of things he wanted to talk to me about.  So I told her I couldn't text her for 2 hours. She flipped out, called him not a real friend.Tried to shame me too "I would never let someone say I couldnt talk to you!"  Oddly enough she did apologize for this later when I stood my ground against her the next day.  I told her 'what would you do if your parents asked you the same thing?'  It's one of the very few times she's apologized for anything.

But one night she told me she was out at 10pm having drinks with 2 guy friends I don't know or never met and she told me I was wrong to be worried at all.  She would have gone completely off if I told her I was out at 10pm having drinks with 2 women friends.

I have a new strategy to use to help understand things from my perspective.  Like NPD, people with BPD struggle with empathy.  They can only really see their personal perspective, because they're so consumed by it.  They have nothing left to see the perspective of others.

So when trying to help her see or understand something, I have to use her life as an example.  For example, when I told her about what would she do if her parents didn't want her on the phone with me when she was with them.  It got through to her.  So I'm going to try explaining myself to her using her own thoughts and feelings.  Because pretty much every time I've told her I feel this way or that, it's like it means nothing to her.

[thankful person]

I disagree that choosing to stay in a relationship with a pwbpd is comparable to adopting a disabled child. I have worked with disabled children for many years and it is very rewarding because there is much love and respect and reciprocity and growth. Maybe if they have experienced trauma or have certain conditions like foetal alcohol syndrome then they can be very difficult children to communicate with and get along with, with some symptoms similar to bpd, but it’s easier to accept when it’s an actual child you’re dealing with. Even with severe autism, sad to say, communication is much easier, and the relationship much fairer, than the one I have with my dbpdw. To stay with someone because “no one else will want them” does not sound respectful. You can make progres in your relationship, but likely may never feel “safe” to know that you can share your feelings, your thoughts, be vulnerable, need support, do what you want to do, see who you want to see, without judgement, criticism, rage, splitting, rejection… And potentially the “final discard “. As I said I’ve been in bpd fam a few years. People in this group are either in the early stage, worried about losing their partner… or generally struggling, even after you’ve read all the books and done the work… it’s still hard and I know you don’t mind that, you sound eternally positive that things will work out, and that btw is very invalidating to your gf. Your method of comparing situations to her own life doesn’t work on my wife at all, she just denies seeing any connection, so maybe your gf is potentially easier to reach and well done. Also to consider, whether you wish to have children with your gf in future… I fear for our children’s mental and emotional well-being at times when they are being screeched at for no good reason, told things like, “You always ruin everything” or them being made to feel guilty because they want to be with me not her because I’m not scary. Bpdw has always been insanely jealous of the children’s love for me and has made it difficult for them to have relationships with my parents too. I am worried my eldest is showing signs of anxiety as she has not stopped scratching and picking at her skin since halving chicken pox months ago.I know this all sounds negative and I’m sorry for that, I just want you to know how it is. Those on here who are successful in their bpd relationship are really quite detached because you can’t have it both ways, the moment you let your guard down you might get attacked, so we learn (to try very hard) not to. Honestly I hope it works out for you. Have you mentioned your discovery of bpd yet or anything like that? If you’re on Quora and I also believe on Reddit, there are some communities of pwbpds your gf may like… you could use that like, “i saw this group you might relate to” or something like that.

[Wipedout]

I just went through everything you have been going through for two years. Double standards with everything. And yes, if I brought up a concern and did so calmy, it would backfire on me and she would paint me black and discard me. JUST for telling her my feelings. I would then humiliate myself and apologize to her for her own behavior.

[LadyMay]

The double standards is really difficult. I think relationships with pwBPD will always be somewhat unbalanced as it is a legitimate mental health disorder. They are emotionally handicapped but with high intellect. I find this to be a dangerous combination, though no fault of their own. With my pwBPD, he says I have a right to express how I feel. When I do, he feels bad, makes it about himself, how he’s an awful person, that the situation isn’t fair to me, and that he needs to stop the hemorrhage because he can’t keep hurting me. I tell him how I feel because he says I have a right to do so, he feels guilty because he hurt me, says he’s a horrible person and I have every reason to hate him and he’s garbage and a bad person, says he’s angry with himself and that the solution is clear (breaking up).

Me: It hurts my feelings when I feel you don’t prioritize me
Him: That must feel awful to feel that way. I’m the problem. I’m ashamed of my behavior. You’re a good person. I can’t keep hurting you. I can’t do this anymore. It’s killing me. I have to step back

[LadyMay]

To clarify - when I say dangerous combination, I was referring to people like myself who entered these relationships without the right tools. BPD doesnt make our partners dangerous or bad

[firehouse3]

Hey guys.

I'm not in the best mood.  Sorry I didn't reply to your comments.

I got discarded. 

 It was pretty sudden. 

I tried, I really did.

[once removed]

what happened?

[firehouse3]

what happened?

She gets very cranky on her menstrual cycle.  We were texting through the day, and in the evening talking on the phone.  She kept being sarcastic and mean to me all day.  Lots of little things.  Like saying "I already know that" or laughing at my advice on how to fix a browser issue she was having

I just got tired of it and told her, "Why are you talking to me like this?"  She said "Like what?"

I told her all the examples, in a single day.  At least as many as I could remember.  As usual, she got extremely defensive, and quickly tried to flip the tables and make me out to be the bad guy.

I didn't back down.  She kept trying to defend herself without apologizing, saying I was being too sensitive, or she was just speaking the truth etc, and of course she started to attack me. I told her her behavior was not okay, and that it was mean and hurtful to me which she continued to deny.

Eventually she just said 'Bye', shut the phone down and blocked me on everything.

I don't like how that happened, but I had to stand up for myself.  I could have given in to her like in previous arguments, let her be the good guy, and me be the bad guy apologizing for he bad behavior.  But no, I couldn't do it anymore.  It was wrong for me to be like that.

I'm hurt.  Really bad.  But if I can't talk to her about her abusive behavior without her leaving me or threatening to, then this relationship wasn't meant to be.

[Elvis42]

firehouse3,
 I'm really sorry what happened, I've been there done that and think I'm about to face the same situation. It sucks no matter how you slice it.
 I understand that you have to defend yourself and stand your ground, boundaries are there for a reason. I face the same kind of attitude and disrespect daily, right now it's I'm done, there are others who will treat me better and not be mean to me......
 They always try to gaslight whenever they don't want to be honest or admit they did something wrong, everything is always are fault.
 You never get a reason why......or if you do it's something that doesn't make logical sense to us, but makes perfect sense to them
 I know your hurting and my post isn't going to make it any better, try to keep your head up, find yourself a distraction and try not to dwell on it too much right now or it will drive you crazy. Come back to it after you have had time to digest things and see what happens in a few days. I'm speaking from my own experience, been there done that more than I can count.

[firehouse3]

It's finally completely over with us.

Over the last months I experienced a cycle with her, where she would 'break up' with me,  usually over something small, I would reach out very shortly after, we would reconcile, then I would be her favorite person again

The time between these cycles were growing longer.  I really felt I was helping her, that we were winning. We could make this work.

Then I suspected she was starting to cheat on me.  She stopped texting me while at work.   One time she texted me toward the very end of her work day, sounded really excited, then turned her phone off or put it in airplane mode.  None of my messages got through.  Messaged me the next morning that she fell asleep.  Yeah right.

Many of the same signs I got from a woman who cheated on me before had suddenly appeared in the last few weeks.  Sudden lack of interest in sex.  Sudden lack of interest in me personally (I would say I'm stressed and there was alot on my mind, and she wouldn't ask me what's wrong).  Sudden lack of interest in hanging out.  Subdued or no reactions to gifts or kind gestures.  Disappearing for many hours and ignoring any texts without a reason or excuse when she disappeared.

I called her while she disappeared again.  She denied the call and blocked me.  Messaged me later that night that I was 'f##### mental (ha.) and she was done with me, and to never talk to her again.  I thought this might have been just another cycle.  So I messaged her on another app we used to talk to 'win her back' like I did 3-4 times before.  She told me we were broke up, and to leave her alone before she blocked me there as well.   

She 'broke up' with me for calling her to make herself feel better about seeing the new guy.  'I'm not such a bad person, I broke up with him before starting a new relationship', so it was fine.'

Obviously, she found a new supply and there was no need for me anymore.

I feel dumb.  I thought if I showed her unconditional love, it would be enough.  I can't even begin to tell you guys what I put up with her, the suffering she put me through.

Her new relationship has 0% chance of succeeding.  0.  Unless its some kind of abusive guy that completely dominates her, she'll never have anything long term.

Despite what she did to me, I feel sorry for her.  Happiness in a relationship is going to elude her forever.  I tried talking to her about BPD, but she didn't take it seriously.

Time for me to heal.