Making progress I think but it seems so slow

[campbembpd]

Hello all, been a minute since posting here.

I've been working at not engaging in the arguing and jumping in to defend myself with my uBPDw when she started to bubble up. I don't say she's not getting enraged and getting triggered but I'm recognizing more and more the truth (this is mental illness) and I think it was out of one of the books I've read: I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.

I'm still struggling with things in the heat of the moment at times. I think it's guilt setting in, feeling that obligation to do something or that I can say something to make her feel better. And it's still really hard for me to figure out what to do instead of JADE'ing aside from walking away when all she wants to do is argue, say things that aren't true and say mean things to get me to react. Or she'll want to sit down and go through a page of things I've done where I've wronged her over the years.

Latest is:

• 
  She's been having issues with a friendship and said she felt she was starting to bubble yesterday (it's her work for when she can feel herself get angry/enraged) about the relationship. That was a clue for me that she was going to be prone to getting upset over anything else...
  
• Her uncle has been in assisted living and his health has been declining, he was put in the hospital and is in pretty bad shape. She was sobbing the other day off and on and was hardly consolable. She even said she didn't understand why she was so emotional about it.
  
• That led up to us helping our daughter register for college classes last night. I had been taking the wheel to help but my uBPDw wanted to be a part of it. As soon as we sat down my wife was negative. She started making comments about being real on how much it was going to cost us because my DD hadn't gotten enough volunteer hours for a scholarship or gotten a job to help (she's 17 and still a senior in HS)
  
• Then when we were talking about some of the college requirements (she's starting at a junior college, xferring to a university after 2 years to save money). My wife said "so your brother could get into this college" followed by her saying that she was going to be going with a whole bunch of stupids. (her brother is intellectually disabled)
  
• It was all I could do not to yell but I didn't... instead I assertively said that "I don’t know what the point is. You wanted to be involved with this process but you’ve been negative from the beginning so why don’t we be positive and go through this?"
  

Wife left which was good and went to bed before 8pm. I didn't go in and engage, try to make it right, apologize (which is what I would have done a year ago). I went to bed later and she made a few snide comments which I ignored.

This morning we woke up and I went straight to the gym. she was still steaming and wanted to get into it. I did get pulled in a bit when she was demanding I tell her what was so negative, I told her what happened and what she said and how hurtful that was to me and to our daughter. She was enraged even more. When I got home she had left for work but she was texting me some long diatribes:

"We are in a HUGE fight again. This is exactly what I needed with my uncle. Wow! I'm appauled"

Not sure if I should have responded at all but I said I was not involved in a fight. I said I'm sorry you chose to leave and go to bed. I re-iterated what I stated before that there had been negative comments made and that I asked her to come, be positive and be a part of it. I said I love her and hope she had a good day.

Then the long texts started. Saying how dare I say she referred to our daughter as dumb (I only re-stated what she said). Called me a few names, then started complaining about other things our daughter isn't doing (she hasn't gotten a p/t job yet), I'm making our daughter weak. she said church was a joke, she feels so disrespected. Said god bless you and your home then ended it with how I couldn't have hurt her more this morning and hopes I'm proud of myself.

I'm pretty resolved but then some doubt comes in. Like maybe I haven't been hard enough on her about getting a job. But my rational brain says that's a distraction and has nothing to do with this (although in my uBPDw mind it's all connected).

So I'm fully expecting more texts as the day goes on or a potential blow out later. I want to keep it focused on what happened but the reality is I'm not sure what I have to discuss with her. I don't think I was wrong to say what I said at all. I think she was completely out of line.

She's going to want to fight tonight so do I just ignore her and stay away? This is where I get 'stuck'. I feel like my choices are to argue in circles with an enraged mentally ill person or walk away and not engage until she calms down and is back to base. That could take days. But I know how I've done it before doesn't work so I'm really pushing myself to try things differently.

Thanks for reading. Always appreciate input and other perspectives.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Notwendy]

As much as you may want to defend your D in these situations, I think it will escalate your wife being upset. In Karpman triangle dynamics, your wife is in victim position. Your expected role is to rescue her, not your D.

This doesn't make logical sense to you but this isn't logical. You know you can love both your wife and your D in different ways. It's not a competition. Yet somehow your wife feels differently.

Your wife's feelings about your D are a reflection of her own projections of bad feelings about herself. Where a child attends college can also be a source of validation for a parent if they see it that way. It's not the child's job to provide a source of self esteem for a parent. Sure, we are proud of their achievements for their sake, they aren't our achievements. But if there is projection and enmeshement going on, a disordered parent will look at achievements or lack of achievements as a reflection on them.

I know several bright young people who attended junior college and they are doing fine. Your D will too.

My BPD mother sees people as "on her side" or "not her side" and if my father wanted to coexist with her he'd have to "take her side".

I think my father somehow had to play both sides of the fence but ultimately her needs and wishes were a priority, whether or not he agreed. Although he earned the income, she controlled any money he gave me for college. I looked forward to being financially independent from them. I think it's fine for children to assume responsibilty for college. I don't feel it was an entitlement, but the way money was handled sent a message as well.

I don't know the best way to intervene with your wife over your D- as anything but taking "her side" is going to be unacceptable to her. Since you choose to stay with your wife, I think the best thing for your D is for you to support her gaining independence so she can be less involved in this triangle.

[kells76]

Hi campbembpd, good to hear back from you, especially to hear that you're working on applying the tools and skills, even when it's difficult. Definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

So I'm fully expecting more texts as the day goes on or a potential blow out later. I want to keep it focused on what happened but the reality is I'm not sure what I have to discuss with her. I don't think I was wrong to say what I said at all. I think she was completely out of line.

She's going to want to fight tonight so do I just ignore her and stay away? This is where I get 'stuck'. I feel like my choices are to argue in circles with an enraged mentally ill person or walk away and not engage until she calms down and is back to base. That could take days. But I know how I've done it before doesn't work so I'm really pushing myself to try things differently.

You may be on to something when you write that there isn't anything to discuss.

Genuine question -- what's the downside to choosing not to engage with her (when she's not in a place for rational engagement), protecting yourself from hearing hurtful things from her, and allowing her the space and time (however long it may be) to practice self-soothing?

[campbembpd]

Hi campbembpd, good to hear back from you, especially to hear that you're working on applying the tools and skills, even when it's difficult. Definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

You may be on to something when you write that there isn't anything to discuss.

Genuine question -- what's the downside to choosing not to engage with her (when she's not in a place for rational engagement), protecting yourself from hearing hurtful things from her, and allowing her the space and time (however long it may be) to practice self-soothing?

Thanks, good question. It's something I've been thinking about over and over. What's the downside? What I hear inside my head is if I don't engage and 'resolve' an issue, things will escalate even more. My caretaker brain says if I do engage, maybe I can calm her down and stop the episode. I fear that is this going to stretch on for days, or weeks. I worry about the lies she tells friends and family (I've heard her say and read texts to others saying completely false or grossly exaggerated things). Or the FOG sets in and I start to question myself, maybe I was wrong. Maybe I should have said it this way or another or maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all.

However, I am realizing more and more that what I've been doing hasn't made things better (probably made them worse) so I've got to do things differently, I'm at the point where it's going to destroy me if I keep living like this. I feel so much of myself has already been peeled away.

And as an update she arrived home from work and I approached her to say hi, asked her how her day was and how she was doing (I work from home). She wasn't doing well, its like I could see the steam coming out of her head. She started to get elevated very quickly then started swearing at me. I told her I wasn't going to continue the conversation if she was swearing and yelling but I would talk to her when things calmed down. That really got her so much more upset, really throwing F-bombs at me. I repeated that I wasn't going to engage in conversation if she was going to talk like that and I went to the office.

She started asking if she just had to swear all the time so I would stay away. She threatened to throw all my belongings into the spare room (which she's done before). She said she was going to leave the house. Then sent me a text and told me to get out. Radio silence after that.

However she did make a point of texting our daughter that she was mad at her for not cleaning up her pet before leaving in the morning. She told her that we were fighting. My daughter texted me that she was scared to come home.

@notwendy - thank you for your comments. I too attended junior college before university and so did my wife! We all decided it was the best thing (most economical for sure) and she would transfer to a university after 2 years.

While I am choosing to stay with my uBPDw right now, I know I can't stay long term unless things change. I know I'm the one that needs to change, she's not capable and/or willing. I really see that now. I don't think it's right for a parent to demean, put down or yell at their kids, no matter how hold and the more aware of the situation I've become more protective with what is clearly emotional abuse. It's been one thing for it to be upon me but I need to be willing to stand up for my kids as much as myself. I am more and more concerned with how my daughter sees relationships. I want her to know and see that sort of behavior isn't acceptable.

[Notwendy]

I grew up afraid of my mother too. And afraid of my father being angry at me for upsetting her.

Looking at your post, what started this is that you defended your D. What your wife wanted was for you to take her side, agree with her, and come down even harder on your D. You know your D doesn't deserve that. Seems your D is basically a good kid- conscientious, responsible.She's doing a lot for a teen ager her age- and at her age, school is the main "job".

[campbembpd]

I grew up afraid of my mother too. And afraid of my father being angry at me for upsetting her.

Looking at your post, what started this is that you defended your D. What your wife wanted was for you to take her side, agree with her, and come down even harder on your D. You know your D doesn't deserve that. Seems your D is basically a good kid- conscientious, responsible.She's doing a lot for a teen ager her age- and at her age, school is the main "job".

That must have been hard. Our daughter is afraid of mom for sure. One of her most frequent questions to me is 'how's mom' or 'is mom okay?'. I don't get angry at D ever for upsetting mom. I think sometimes though it may have made me a bit soft. But maybe that's my uBPDw's voice in my head... she often says I'm soft because I haven't done enough to get my daughter to develop grit. I do take it easy on her, I probably have taken it a little easy on her because she gets it so hard from mom.

As an update the day turned into a real S-show. She got more and more escalated as the day went on. I couldn't focus on any work at all. I did set a boundary that I wasn't going to engage/argue with her when she was swearing at me. So instead of my usual pleading with her to see the light and see my side I didn't. I remained calm and repeated that I wasn't going to get pulled into a fight. This went on for the day. I couldn't focus on work but I stayed in the office as long as I could. There was just an onslaught of terrible, nasty texts, threats for divorce, etc. I didn't respond or go back and forth. She moved my stuff to the spare room and went to bed texting me we're talking about divorce in the morning. She came in in the middle of the night sad and apologetic, wanted me to sleep in the room which I did. The next morning she's texting me love messages and funny memes.

I posted this in another thread too but I guess I'm trying to figure out the right boundaries and how I can get myself to where I can detach a little better. Even though I wasn't fighting with her I was consumed by it all day. Basically hiding in my office all day, unable to do any work really feeling like I was in an emotional vice I couldn't escape. I need to figure out how to do this better because it's really tearing me apart. I think things like maybe I need to leave the house completely. Which I can do but when she gets to that point being away for an hour or 2 doesn't help, she'll probably be more enraged when I return. I have fantasies about leaving and going completely no contact for 2 days then check in to see if she's okay but we have the kids and I don't want to leave them extended when mom is like that.

Even over a day later its still eating me up. I'm still emotionally worked up (or beat down). For a long time it was hard to describe, to myself it was hypervigilance and when I read the essential family guide to BPD there was a section that was me to a tee: If your BP flies into erratic rages or can easily become threatening, your stress level may rise to the level of hypervigilance, which is a symptom of PTSD. Hypervigilant people are like the giraffes at a watering hole. They're always on the alert, looking for danger. Their stress hormone levels rise high and don't come down.

I feel like that a lot, stressed, very highly stressed and it's hard for me to come down. I know I have a LOT of work to do in the self care area.