How not to create "land mines"

[usagi]

Hello forum friends,

Here's the general dysfunctional dance that my partner and I have.  She will ask a loaded question (expecting a certain response or from a place that is needy/hurting).  I give an honest response not taking into account that she's searching for something.  This triggers her.  I try to walk it back but ultimately just makes it worse.

This happened this weekend.  I was helping her move some of her furniture and boxes to her new apartment.  When we drove away from the house in the moving van she said "If you weren't with me you could find a younger woman with kids and try to have a family again.  Is that something you think you would want?"  I answered honestly that I didn't know.

This triggered a day long discussion about why I don't know what I want.  She also wanted to know what I've told my friends about our situation.  I felt pretty trapped having this conversation in the van.  I didn't answer her honestly about what I had told my friends.  She kept asking questions, picking up on little things I said that made her question what I said.  I finally admitted more and that I had lied earlier in the conversation because I didn't want to talk in the van.

We had planned on going out to dinner after getting back to the house and decided to stick to it.  While I was getting cleaned up it finally hit me that the entire line of questions was really aimed at her feeling scared and abandoned about what was happening.  She was looking for comfort - in a very strange way.  We went out to dinner and I apologized again for lying and said that "this whole thing is scary.  We had a family and now we are breaking that all up and aren't sure if we'll be able to make our relationship work anymore."  That clicked with her.  She softened and asked "why didn't you say that before?"

I think I've realized that when she says that I am "being defensive" it is more likely that she's just not feeling validated regardless if I'm being defensive or not.

Maybe I'm just not quick enough or observant enough to pick up on this.  I feel like I can get sucked into these conversations quickly and then spend a lot of emotional effort to dig out.  This is a huge hurdle for our relationship.

We've both been taking to calling this "land mines."  She's asked that I stop doing this "defensive" behavior and quick otherwise we can't be together.  I realize that this is her anxious, scared side saying that she needs me and is very uncomfortable with feeling hurt.  She's afraid that this will keep happening and I am too honestly.

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[kells76]

Hey, good to hear from you again, and thanks for sharing some examples -- really helpful to work with actual situations.

When you heard this from her:

When we drove away from the house in the moving van she said "If you weren't with me you could find a younger woman with kids and try to have a family again.  Is that something you think you would want?"

am I close if I guess that the first thing you experienced wasn't the thought "OK, let me slow down and think about it, wow this question is really loaded and not a normal relationship question", but was rather a feeling or emotion of panic/flooding?

[usagi]

Hey Kells,

Yes absolutely.  That's the problem in fact.  Instead of slowing down for a moment I just answered the question, honestly.  I really don't know if I'd try to date a woman with kids if my partner and I were broken up.

The problem is that the question she asked is not what she wanted to know.  She wanted to know if I was going to value her and make her feel better.

Thank you =)

[kells76]

I know the feeling of jumping right to the emotional activation/flooding stance. It's so overwhelming and can feel like survival in that moment. It's also tricky when we're in a physical situation that is not easy to leave (a moving vehicle when someone else is driving, for example).

I agree with you that she was likely not looking for a literal answer to the words she chose to use. It's good that you can reflect back on the "game tape" and right now, when you're likely more grounded and not emotionally flooded, you can see what she was trying to do. So -- when you're grounded, centered, and balanced, you are able to identify the dynamics and not get caught up in them. That's positive.

Seems like part of the task in front of you is bridging that gap. In the moment it's still hard to consciously choose to pause and not reflexively "answer honestly". After the fact you are very able to come up with alternatives. Closing that gap seems important. It's also positive that she was receptive to your connection after the fact (despite the "why couldn't you say it at the time" dig).

What physical cues did you have right after she asked you that "question"? What did you notice -- change in body temperature, fuzzy thinking, heart rate, pulse, feeling nauseous... stuff like that?

I wonder if you can start to connect those physical cues with a reminder to yourself to slow down:

"When I feel sweaty, in shock, numb, and my ears are buzzing, I now know to connect those signals to choosing to pause for X seconds before answering -- if I decide to answer/engage at all".

Maybe that pause will give your rational mind enough time to get online, so it can work in tandem with your emotions. Your emotions are giving you important information -- listen to them, and come up with a plan from your rational mind.

While we can't change what happened, we can learn from it, and if BPD is involved in a relationship, I suspect you'll have more, um, opportunities to practice this new approach.

[usagi]

Thinking back I can't discern any specific physical sensations.  I know, however, that she was a little on edge from the packing, which she hates doing.

I like the idea though.  It would be much easier to tap into my "Spidey sense" when this is happening rather than trying to make an exhaustive and ultimately incomplete list of topics I should be careful of.

Before I left yesterday she said that she didn't want to see me until I had some answers for her.  Why did I do what I did last year.  Why did I say the things I said.

I think others on the forum suggested that I should try to get her to focus on the present more, and not dwell in the past.  I'd like to make our relationship better going forward.  We've had so many conversations about what happened last year I have lost count.  Re-hashing isn't going to help.

What she really wants is to not feel afraid that I'll say something that hurts her feelings.

[once removed]

While I was getting cleaned up it finally hit me that the entire line of questions was really aimed at her feeling scared and abandoned about what was happening.  She was looking for comfort - in a very strange way.  We went out to dinner and I apologized again for lying and said that "this whole thing is scary.  We had a family and now we are breaking that all up and aren't sure if we'll be able to make our relationship work anymore."  That clicked with her.  She softened and asked "why didn't you say that before?"

yes. this is validating. and listening with empathy.

the first thing i thought when i heard "blah blah blah younger woman" is shes feeling insecure.

that sort of thing can happen with someone with bpd traits, an insecure attachment style, or even just someone feeling particularly down on themselves, regardless even of your circumstances with her; that tendency to compare themselves unfavorably to others, to think of themselves as not enough, or unworthy, to fear that there is a threat to their relationship with you because of their own perceived inadequacy. validation for an insecurely attached person, is a relationship need, and often communicated through "testing" type behavior. i also think its natural to be defensive about; its kind of stated as an accusation, and it can feel like an attack on your trust, or your character, or...

when what it really is, usually, is a way of communicating "help me to feel more secure".

Maybe I'm just not quick enough or observant enough to pick up on this.

its a skill, and it takes practice, and you have to do it under stress. i think though, when you learn to read between the lines, see it for what it is, beyond the way they choose to communicate it, and our own instinctive responses, it really starts to click, and to become more and more natural from there.

I realize that this is her anxious, scared side saying that she needs me and is very uncomfortable with feeling hurt.  

yes. she needs you to be stronger than she is.

[usagi]

Thanks once removed and Kells,

Interestingly she said this morning that she felt better about our conversation yesterday after reflecting on it.  She was very concerned that I am somehow rejecting her because of her son.  This really isn't true at all.  I do love her son even though he's a PITA sometimes.

She says that she is hopeful that I want to grow and will stop being "defensive".