We spend a lot of time on non contact

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi

I just read so much on this forum and thought.

We call it no contact.   We even have a name for it, that isn't normal.

People leave each other every day.  I have never heard anyone say, I'm going no contact.

I hear people say their whole list grievances and then say, I don't want to see that person anymore.

And don't.  Nobody has an issue with it. 

I have four now, significant exes.  Three before the BPD I don't see them again.  I possibly saw them half a dozen times after we split up.  I have no desire to contact any of them.  It ended, it was finished, we had no children.  Two I hope are ok and the other I wouldn't care less about what she was doing, as long she stays away from me.

The BPD is different, by why?

My BPD ex seems to have this idea that I am attached to her life FOREVER!  and that I will be here when she needs me. 

Do you think it's because they speak in that way, that it makes it hard to move on because they are creating that space that sometimes feels comfortable.  Creating that expectation.  You have to break up with them multiple times almost.  I didn't even leave her.

She doesn't want to be with me.   I don't want to be with her.

She just wants me to be there when she needs to cry on someone's shoulder.  Sooth the abandonment.

I don't know.  It's like we are so used to have complex emotions pushed on to us and now everything is complex.

The can trash on you big time then expect you will be there.   Then make you feel guilty that you aren't.

Just wondering if they do that to our minds?   If you pull your mind out and start to speak normally, think normally maybe we don't need words like non-contact.

This isn't out mental illness. 

We shouldn't be trying to think like BPD, resolve according to their illness, get closure according to their illness. 

But that is what we do.   If you detach their rational then that actually feels good. 

So I want her to bugger off for long enough that I don't think about her.   What that is called.

I don't want to think about her, feel love for her or anything else.   It was a bad dream.

 

[Kashi]

Hi

I just read so much on this forum and thought.

We call it no contact.   We even have a name for it, that isn't normal.

People leave each other every day.  I have never heard anyone say, I'm going no contact.

I hear people say their whole list grievances and then say, I don't want to see that person anymore.

And don't.  Nobody has an issue with it. 

I have four now, significant exes.  Three before the BPD I don't see them again.  I possibly saw them half a dozen times after we split up.  I have no desire to contact any of them.  It ended, it was finished, we had no children.  Two I hope are ok and the other I wouldn't care less about what she was doing, as long she stays away from me.

The BPD is different, by why?

My BPD ex seems to have this idea that I am attached to her life FOREVER!  and that I will be here when she needs me. 

Do you think it's because they speak in that way, that it makes it hard to move on because they are creating that space that sometimes feels comfortable.  Creating that expectation.  You have to break up with them multiple times almost.  I didn't even leave her.

She doesn't want to be with me.   I don't want to be with her.

She just wants me to be there when she needs to cry on someone's shoulder.  Sooth the abandonment.

I don't know.  It's like we are so used to have complex emotions pushed on to us and now everything is complex.

The can trash on you big time then expect you will be there.   Then make you feel guilty that you aren't.

Just wondering if they do that to our minds?   If you pull your mind out and start to speak normally, think normally maybe we don't need words like non-contact.

This isn't out mental illness. 

We shouldn't be trying to think like BPD, resolve according to their illness, get closure according to their illness. 

But that is what we do.   If you detach their rational then that actually feels good. 

So I want her to bugger off for long enough that I don't think about her.   What that is called.

I don't want to think about her, feel love for her or anything else.   It was a bad dream.

 

[seekingtheway]

Yes this is true...

I wonder if the term No Contact is often used in a scenario when people do actually want contact with that person, but then employ this strategy in order to deal with that.... whether that's to protect yourself from getting drawn in again, or finally get over the person and move on, or even to manipulate them to make them want to come back.

In all of my previous relationships, we had some minimal contact after a breakup, and it was sad, but healthy... just an occasional check-in till we got to the point where we didn't need to/want to do that any more. Feelings and hurt were expressed, and there was an open door for that to happen, but there wasn't any confusion about where things stood. Except in one scenario I can think of, but that confusion was worked through with some straight talking eventually.

I think with my ex, that's the thing that is missing - the ability to do some really straight, honest talking. He always left things open with a hanging thread... keeping the door ajar just a little bit... so there's the option to come back one day, or just the security of knowing it's an option one day. No true closure. It's to soothe a sense of abandonment I guess.

From my side I've never needed that from an ex, but my experience with my ex triggered my own abandonment wounds in a severe way (after an intense amount of breakups in a short amount of time) that I can actually feel into the mechanism of why this happens. I started to feel a sense of panic and terror about being abandoned by my ex, even though I knew logically he wasn't right for me. So his mental illness started to become mine... I still struggle with the idea the door is closed for good. As does he. It doesn't make rational sense.

But yeah, in a healthy dynamic, there isn't a real need for this No Contact game. You just tie things up as respectfully as you can, sometimes that means revisiting for a conversation or two once the dust settles... and then you move on. Sometimes as friends, sometimes not.

[Kashi]

Hi

I have seen people use the tactic of no contact on people they know to have BPD, to get them back.   

I just like to say that is manipulation.  You are correct.

It has intent beyond what the other person wants at that moment. 

I was reading about covert narcissists.  The matrix of abuse and found it very helpful.

The whole debate on the similarities of a narcissist and a people with borderline personality disorder.   Covert narcissist.

We have the list of symptoms which is a guide as far as I see.  They hit the marks. 

Borderlines say they don't have intent and feel empathy.

My take on it and in my own words..

Empathy only on a level which they can completely relate to.  Not only relate to it becomes about them and not the other person.   If it was true empathy, then they would adjust their interactions with the person.  They would freely give love or assistance.  My ex had empathy for random objects.  The object made her feel a certain way and she confused the emotions and projected empathy for the object.  But reality was those thoughts and emotions were empathy but for herself. 

That hurts my brain

Intent.  There's manipulation with a plan which is intent, then there are behaviors that might not be under their control for that moment.  However, the result when they get what they want produces a feeling in them of power, and control. 

I could see it when she did it.   She couldn't hide it.

So......Once that feeling is produced, they know how it was produced, they know the pattern that works

That is bloody intent...

Seems like a sliding scale of the same illness, with different ways to create a share fantasy to entrap someone to quell the abandonment.

Personally, in my mind I was thinking, well at least I wasn't with a narcissist.  That thinking had me trapped in a cycle of empathy for this person, and an idea that there was no intent.  I believe that anymore.

The covert narcissist matrix was an eye opener.

I can look back and see her black and white thinking, with employees and petty hate for "slights" and now I wonder if she got rid of those people purely because she had moments of "hate" and those poor people lost their jobs or were blamed for things they didn't do.  A borderline with power.  Simply because she wasn't agreed with, or challenged, or just didn't like the way they looked in a particular angle.  That is intent. 

I got way off track there.

You completely nailed it when you said they were triggering your abandonment issues.  Before my ex I was independent.  I wasn't relying on a person for a home, sharing finances, seeing them every day.  Then my ex plonked herself in my life and took that away.  I allowed that to happen.  Why because I felt sorry for her.  I felt guilty.  It wasn't that I didn't have feelings for her.  I can be loving and not attached to someone like that.  That was her manipulating me.  It worked. 

I think my honeymoon period latest years,  unlike I hear from others.  I think the reason why because she had to try hard to get me in a position where she felt she had the power.  I like emotional power to be equal, I don't play power games.  I always tried to balance it for both of us.

She asked for more.   I sat back and I thought should commit to this person or not have them around.  Is that what I want.

So I did.  The power flipped and she didn't need to try anymore.

Then she used it.   Then my abandonment kicked in.  Then she had me under her control.  That got worse.

So I am simply exercising my right not to have my ex in my life like the rest of them.  Most I just vaguely hope they are happy and moved on to lives that have love in them.  I don't remember the details of who hurt who and how.  I know why it ended.  But I don't labor over the detail.  One I really do not want to remember at all,  I doubt she is happy.  I even don't go near people who are her/our/were mine friends, who still see her.   Because I don't want her near me and I don't want to get pulled into her world.  That is an active decision.   

This ex.  Well, it's a matter of survival right now.   I feel like I am being targeted and it could slip into a big drama.

I feel she wants to destroy me and that isn't being paranoid.  I feel the "shared fantasy" she wants for herself

The fantasy to me was simply a way of life and not a fantasy.  To her it is, because she can't achieve it. 

I think she doesn't want me to have that life.   If I stick around, I think she will make sure I don't have that life.

No contact as a strategy and discussed as it is.  I think is misleading and a side-stepping thought process.

What you are doing is protecting yourself because you need to.  Borderlines can become incredibly dangerous in their black and white thinking and distortions.   It's a matter of time.  Yes, some may be able to get the insight they need, focus and stabilize themselves and grow somewhat.  But I don't believe there are many.  I wouldn't take away the idea that it is possible.  But I certainly wouldn't be the side kick in that process for someone.