Criticism After Sex

[HurtAndTired]

So I am going to apologize ahead of time for being a bit graphic, but I don't know how else to describe this situation.

My dBPDw frequently criticizes me during and after sex (who were you thinking about, why did you take so long to finish, why did you finish so fast, why didn't you kiss me at the end, quality of my erection, etc.) however, it has recently escalated to a new level. She has started to criticize the quality and amount of ejaculate (real or perceived) after we are done.

A few days ago we were having a good day. Although my wife had been low-key dysregulated over a job offer and preparing to leave a long-term and much-hated job (good changes can be just as stressful as negative ones, apparently), and had been taking the stress out on me, we had a good end to the day. She was kind to me and even said that she wanted to work on being a better mother and wife. When she initiated intimacy I went along with it, breaking my rule about no intimacy when she is dysregulated...even low-key, because of the kindness. I am so unused to her being kind that it totally disarmed me. When we were intimate it even felt tender and truly intimate rather than just the physical act.

However, when it was over and I was hoping to enjoy the afterglow and have cuddling/positive touch and talk/expressions of affection, she became crude and critical and ruined it. She asked me if I had even finished or if I had faked it. I asked her what she meant and she said that she felt like the quantity of my ejaculate was too small (it was interior, not exterior so kind of hard to judge accurately) and that it was too thin and runny. This made me feel really upset. She has criticized my ejaculate before (too much, too little, too thick, too runny, etc.) so I shouldn't have been as surprised and upset as I was. I think it was because her criticism shattered the illusion that I had been enjoying that we were actually being intimate for once instead of just completing the physical act.

The long and the short of it was that she said that it was an indication that I had been watching porn and masturbating (I haven't been.) I refused to JADE but told her that I was really disappointed and hurt that she would ruin what was otherwise such a lovely moment by making such crude accusations and criticisms about a natural bodily function that I have no conscious control over whatsoever. She took my refusal to JADE and the fact that I was upset and hurt as proof that she was right. I just rolled over in bed and told her "and this is why I don't want to have sex with you more often. When you say things like you just said, it makes me feel pushed away from you and not cared for." She responded by telling me that "you should just watch as much porn as you want to, because from here on out I won't be asking you for sex because I will be watching porn and masturbating too."

The next day she acted as if nothing had happened and everything was normal. She hasn't tried to initiate sex since then either though, and I sure don't want to either. I am just so hurt and am sick of feeling like a human sex toy; to be used for her purposes and summarily discarded as soon as she has gotten what she wants. Heck, even being used and discarded wouldn't hurt as much as being criticized and accused afterwards does. It is really making it hard for me to want to be with her in a sexual way at all. Has anyone else experienced this or something like it?

I don't know what to do about this at all. I don't feel like this is an appropriate thing to validate. I could explain that the average male human ejaculate is roughly equal to a tablespoon and can vary in consistency from thick to liquidy depending on a variety of factors including genetic, diet, and hydration, but that feels too much like JADEing and she wouldn't want to listen to the scientific facts anyway. The point is that she is critical of me when I am literally at the most vulnerable moment that a human being can be at: naked, post-coitus, and completely exposed physically, mentally, and emotionally. I also don't relish the idea of living the rest of my life celibate, but can't keep exposing myself to this feeling of being sexually abused.

HurtAndTired

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[Chief Drizzt]

Well - at least you’re having sex.   After reading your post I’m now thankful that I’m not.

[Chief Drizzt]

Well - at least you’re having sex.   After reading your post I’m now thankful that I’m not.

Sorry - there was more but it didn’t post.

In all seriousness - I’m sorry that you are having to endure this.  It sounds cruel and malicious and you shouldn’t have to experience that. No one should.  It makes me wonder if your wife had some kind traumatic event happen to her sexually. I feel bad about that - but I feel worse for you.

[CravingPeace]

This I think is a form of sexual abuse. Imagine you told a women after sex her vagina felt odd, or was too dry or too moist, or disn't she enjoy it because of how her vagina was. Something she would have little cotrol over. At the minimum its cruel and emotionally abusive and you dont deserve this.

[Turkish]

This is delusional thinking, but it telegraphs the deep feelings from a pwBPD who lacks self worth and thinks she (or he) is unworthy of being loved. I'd suggest sex therapy, but that takes two committed partners. What if you suggest it though?

[jaded7]

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. On another thread somewhere here I think I shared with you that my ex did these very
kinds of things to me too. It was humiliating, emasculating, embarrassing. And totally took the 'fun' out of sex for me. In fact, I became very nervous about sex because I was nervous she was going to snap at me during it, which she did often, and/or tell me I'm doing something 'wrong'.

What you're describing is absolutely horrible, and I kept waiting for the 'tell'...why is she like this with you? These seem like such strange things to be hyper-focused on.....and then, there it was. It was her way of judging if you are being sexual on your own, which she would then take as an insult/abandonment/rejection.

So it is a way of her finding fault with you, and judging your for your behavior....that you didn't even engage in!!! Now generalize, and it will sound very much like typical BPD behavior, just in a different arena.

I can't tell you how painful my ex's behavior was for me, so shocking and hurtful. Especially since I told her that I was sexually abused as a boy, had been to a psych hospital for sexual trauma, and that sex was an area where she could really hurt me.

And she did all she did anyway.

[HurtAndTired]

Thank you all for your replies.

Chief Drizzit,

You are spot on in your instincts about her having been through sexual trauma. She was sexually abused by her stepfather when she was a teenager, and I recently learned that her cousin may have abused her when she was younger. Most of those memories are semi-repressed and only come back to her in flashes. It makes sex really weird for both of us. Now that I am aware of the abuse and her issues with sex, I have a rule about not having sex with her when she is dysregulated. I don't want to be a part of her replaying or trying to work through her abuse. I don't want to be associated with those people in her mind.

CravingPeace,

Thank you for validating that this is sexual abuse. I am still getting used to the idea that I have been regularly sexually abused by her for years. You are also absolutely correct in how obviously abusive this is if the script was flipped and after sex, I criticized her for how her body felt or responded.

Turkish,

I agree that she is delusional. Her BPD is severe enough that she has audiovisual hallucinations frequently in addition to persistent delusions of persecution and other paranoid ideologies. While she has been extremely dysregulated she has told the voices to shut up and has pointed out things to me that she sees that are clearly not there. These are all pretty common symptoms of BPD that are overlooked/dismissed by many even in the psychological community, but new research is showing that they may suffer from psychosis as frequently as schizophrenics.

She is also deeply insecure and really completely lacks a sense of self-worth. She really has no sense of self at all and completely defines herself by her relations to other people. She is a mom, a wife, a worker at this company, etc. but she doesn't know who she is outside of these roles. She is a shell of a person that is a hungry hole of hurt that constantly needs to be filled.

We have tried couples counseling multiple times. She has quit therapy every time except for the last therapist who quit us. He is an LMHC/PhD who specializes in cluster B personality disorders and was told ahead of time about my wife's BPD. After having had 4 or 5 sessions together he had seen her split on me twice. He told us that he could not work with us until both of us were in a place where we were open to listening to the other person. He said that he knew that I had been in individual therapy and had been working on myself and my own issues, and he suggested to my wife that she do the same. Once she had spent some time working through her issues with an individual therapist and was in a better place, he said that we could come back and work with him.

Cliff Notes version of what he was saying: Couples counseling is a waste of time until your wife addresses her BPD with an individual therapist. Unfortunately, she is still in denial of her condition and blames everyone else in the world for how miserable she is rather than seeing the one common denominator in her misery is her and her behavior.

Jaded,

Thank you for your expression of sympathy. I remember quite well the horrible abuse that you suffered through and I hope that my post was not triggering for you. You are correct though. Remove all of the discomfort and extra horror that is added to this by it being tied to sex and it is quite typical BPD behavior...it just hurts so much worse because of the nature of when it is happening and the context in which it is occurring.

I went over this incident with my therapist last week and I have come up with a plan on how to deal with this going forward. I will treat it as I would any other problematic BPD behavior. I will place boundaries for my own protection and I will not reward problematic behavior by giving her the desired reaction. In this case, the desired reaction was to see me hurt and to hear me defend myself (JADE.)  She wanted to push me away because I was getting too close and she felt the threat of engulfment, but she wanted to pull me back in the next night because the sex was soothing to her. Typical BPD push/pull behavior, only with sex.

Going forward, I will talk with her before we start to get intimate next time. It will go something like this: "I want to be intimate with you, but I want to make sure that we are going to be nice to each other throughout and afterward. I don't want either of us to say or do anything negative to spoil what should be an experience that brings us closer together." I will only move forward if she agrees to this. If she then goes back on this agreement and criticizes/accuses me, I will immediately get up from the bed and without a word go to the guest room (my safe room) and lock the door.

I will also not be intimate with her again until she apologizes for her behavior (takes ownership of it) and promises to stick to our agreement about no negativity during or after intimacy. This removes the rewards of having me JADE and of her being able to soothe herself with sex. If problematic behavior no longer produces desired results, the behavior will eventually stop. In the week or so since this incident has happened, she has not tried to initiate intimacy with me again and I do not plan to do so with her until she makes amends or tries to initiate herself. If she tries to initiate sex, I will only move forward once she agrees to the conditions of no negativity during or afterward.

I don't know how effective it will be, but it is the best idea that my therapist and I could come up with. It will also mean that I will have to approach sex as purely a physical act and drop any expectation of true intimacy. True intimacy is not possible as long as my wife's BPD is untreated, and it may never be even if she does receive treatment. Radical acceptance of this is sad, but it means that it makes it harder to hurt me if I am not emotionally exposing myself and am treating this as just sex rather than making love.

HurtAndTired

[jaded7]

Thank you all for your replies.

CravingPeace,

Thank you for validating that this is sexual abuse. I am still getting used to the idea that I have been regularly sexually abused by her for years. You are also absolutely correct in how obviously abusive this is if the script was flipped and after sex, I criticized her for how her body felt or responded.


Jaded,

Thank you for your expression of sympathy. I remember quite well the horrible abuse that you suffered through and I hope that my post was not triggering for you. You are correct though. Remove all of the discomfort and extra horror that is added to this by it being tied to sex and it is quite typical BPD behavior...it just hurts so much worse because of the nature of when it is happening and the context in which it is occurring.

I went over this incident with my therapist last week and I have come up with a plan on how to deal with this going forward. I will treat it as I would any other problematic BPD behavior. I will place boundaries for my own protection and I will not reward problematic behavior by giving her the desired reaction. In this case, the desired reaction was to see me hurt and to hear me defend myself (JADE.)  She wanted to push me away because I was getting too close and she felt the threat of engulfment, but she wanted to pull me back in the next night because the sex was soothing to her. Typical BPD push/pull behavior, only with sex.

Going forward, I will talk with her before we start to get intimate next time. It will go something like this: "I want to be intimate with you, but I want to make sure that we are going to be nice to each other throughout and afterward. I don't want either of us to say or do anything negative to spoil what should be an experience that brings us closer together." I will only move forward if she agrees to this. If she then goes back on this agreement and criticizes/accuses me, I will immediately get up from the bed and without a word go to the guest room (my safe room) and lock the door.

I will also not be intimate with her again until she apologizes for her behavior (takes ownership of it) and promises to stick to our agreement about no negativity during or after intimacy. This removes the rewards of having me JADE and of her being able to soothe herself with sex. If problematic behavior no longer produces desired results, the behavior will eventually stop. In the week or so since this incident has happened, she has not tried to initiate intimacy with me again and I do not plan to do so with her until she makes amends or tries to initiate herself. If she tries to initiate sex, I will only move forward once she agrees to the conditions of no negativity during or afterward.

I don't know how effective it will be, but it is the best idea that my therapist and I could come up with. It will also mean that I will have to approach sex as purely a physical act and drop any expectation of true intimacy. True intimacy is not possible as long as my wife's BPD is untreated, and it may never be even if she does receive treatment. Radical acceptance of this is sad, but it means that it makes it harder to hurt me if I am not emotionally exposing myself and am treating this as just sex rather than making love.

HurtAndTired

Not triggered at all Hurt and Tired. I'm glad you are sharing this as it's helpful to me and probably others.

I like your plan. It's taking control of what you deserve and need. Because you do deserve to be treated with love and respect, and you don't deserve to be criticized and controlled in sex. It's not healthy.

It's sad that you have to approach sex as a purely physical activity. It can and should be a connecting experience in which you express love and vulnerability and build a closer relationship. But when your partner doesn't approach sex this way, and can't, it's a difficult issue. I think that pwBPD have a hard time with vulnerability, and sex is the ultimate of that. So that's where their behaviors will come out strongly. I think that's why they get really angry when you kindly turn them down, why they get critical and snappy during it....because they are feeling vulnerable and therefore ill at ease. And then the behaviors come out.....and then we the partners are hurt and express that, and thus begins the anger/accusation JADE circle...in bed of all places!!

I'll never forget the absolute explosion in bed of my ex. We hadn't had sex for 4 or 5 months, she'd been avoiding my requests to come over by ignoring them or diverting to "walk in the park", which left me confused. We finally were together in bed becuase we'd gone to visit her family together (we lived apart), and as she came to bed I put my arm out to embrace her as she came to bed and she literally knocked it away. She sat down on the edge of the bed then started to get in, I put my arm out again and she knocked it away again. She got in bed and faced me and I said, kindly and gently, "honey, is there something wrong with our physical relationship?". She got incredibly angry and EXPLODED at me....."you wanna fight???!! is that what you want??! you wanna go at it?!!! Ok...let's go at it, right now!!! I'm awake now, let's fight!!! c'mon...let's go!!"

Yikes. I told her I didn't want to fight, was just asking a question, pointed out that we hadn't had sex in months, pointed out that she'd ignored many requests to come over to my place. This all just made her more mad.

I applaud you for taking the initiative in this situation. Good job. I hope it goes well for you and thank you for sharing.