A few updates

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Continued from here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358276.0

Not a ton going on... fortunately? Just bits and pieces. It may be that because H and I are back in the "perpetrator" position on the Triangle, the situation has stabilized back in a familiar place. That's the only reason I can think of for why Mom and Stepdad haven't been more aggressive/unpredictable. Or, they're so wrapped up in their own relational dramas, or both. IDK.

...

The CPS investigation is still going on. They were last in contact with me in late May, asking about if H or I had any substance abuse or MH diagnoses, where we worked & had ever lived, etc. I haven't checked on the report lately but feel OK with not checking. It isn't due to complete for another month or so.

...

I was taking SD16 to school a week ago and was asking about her weekend (she did something a few hours out of town), and she mentioned that she drove up with "Name", so I asked if that was a school friend, and she said no, it's Mom's girlfriend who is really cool. Apparently that is the person we saw with Mom at SD16's school play a month or two ago. So, that's confirmed.

...

SD16 stayed both nights with us this past weekend, which was nice. No trying to make other plans or go back to Mom's. I am grateful for that and just have to take each weekend as it comes, not making it personal. She and H love scary movies, so it was funny -- they were watching a horror movie Sunday night, and I kept going out to check on her, and finally she was like "even though I sound terrified, I'm actually enjoying this and I'm fine". It was a good reality check for me -- I don't need to manage her experiences, she can handle it.

...

H and I have a call with SD18 once a week or so. She has sounded happy and relaxed, which is nice. We just talk about what she and her SO are doing, what foods they're cooking and trying, stuff like that -- nothing heavy.

...

As unrelated as this sounds, I typically have bland dreams (usually about stuff we have already done, like driving in the car, grocery shopping, going to work, or tropey stuff like "I'm back in high school but don't know my class schedule"). Sunday night, though, I had a doozy, which I think might be related to the kids and this whole situation, but I'm not sure how. Also related is that many years ago -- maybe 10 years ago -- SD18 told me about a dream she had had, that she told her mom. The dream was that SD18 was running through the forest being chased by a bear, and I was there, but I was sitting on a pillow. Somehow between her and her mom, the interpretation was something like "kells76 doesn't really help SD18, kells76 doesn't really do anything". I'd recently told that dream to someone, who commented -- so who is the bear? Why didn't Mom want to say who the bear was? With the implication -- maybe it was Mom who was chasing SD18 in the dream, and maybe it's good that I wasn't chasing SD18.

Anyway, all that to say -- the other night I had the kind of dream that Freudian analysts, um, dream about hearing. The dream was that my therapist had something to show me in the sky in the woods, like a bird or a constellation or something. It must have been fall or winter, because the sky was bright light gray and there were few or no leaves on the white trunk trees. Everything was kind of light gray/brown. She climbed a tree and I followed her. Then, we saw a bear. I think it was on the ground originally, but then it started climbing the tree next to ours. I wasn't terrified, but had an "academic" sense of "I should go through the checklist of what you do when a bear approaches -- make yourself look bigger, maybe?" We held out our hands in a "stop" position but the bear kept coming, so I took my hands, turned them palm out and fingers to the center, and pressed them on the bear's eyes. In my dream, I could physically feel the bear and its eyes moving. Then, the bear moved past me. Apparently it was a female bear who had recently given birth, because it then delivered the placenta, which distracted it, and it went down to the ground and ate it.

So.... I think I'm processing something, but haven't landed on it yet.

[kells76]

Continued from here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358276.0

Not a ton going on... fortunately? Just bits and pieces. It may be that because H and I are back in the "perpetrator" position on the Triangle, the situation has stabilized back in a familiar place. That's the only reason I can think of for why Mom and Stepdad haven't been more aggressive/unpredictable. Or, they're so wrapped up in their own relational dramas, or both. IDK.

...

The CPS investigation is still going on. They were last in contact with me in late May, asking about if H or I had any substance abuse or MH diagnoses, where we worked & had ever lived, etc. I haven't checked on the report lately but feel OK with not checking. It isn't due to complete for another month or so.

...

I was taking SD16 to school a week ago and was asking about her weekend (she did something a few hours out of town), and she mentioned that she drove up with "Name", so I asked if that was a school friend, and she said no, it's Mom's girlfriend who is really cool. Apparently that is the person we saw with Mom at SD16's school play a month or two ago. So, that's confirmed.

...

SD16 stayed both nights with us this past weekend, which was nice. No trying to make other plans or go back to Mom's. I am grateful for that and just have to take each weekend as it comes, not making it personal. She and H love scary movies, so it was funny -- they were watching a horror movie Sunday night, and I kept going out to check on her, and finally she was like "even though I sound terrified, I'm actually enjoying this and I'm fine". It was a good reality check for me -- I don't need to manage her experiences, she can handle it.

...

H and I have a call with SD18 once a week or so. She has sounded happy and relaxed, which is nice. We just talk about what she and her SO are doing, what foods they're cooking and trying, stuff like that -- nothing heavy.

...

As unrelated as this sounds, I typically have bland dreams (usually about stuff we have already done, like driving in the car, grocery shopping, going to work, or tropey stuff like "I'm back in high school but don't know my class schedule"). Sunday night, though, I had a doozy, which I think might be related to the kids and this whole situation, but I'm not sure how. Also related is that many years ago -- maybe 10 years ago -- SD18 told me about a dream she had had, that she told her mom. The dream was that SD18 was running through the forest being chased by a bear, and I was there, but I was sitting on a pillow. Somehow between her and her mom, the interpretation was something like "kells76 doesn't really help SD18, kells76 doesn't really do anything". I'd recently told that dream to someone, who commented -- so who is the bear? Why didn't Mom want to say who the bear was? With the implication -- maybe it was Mom who was chasing SD18 in the dream, and maybe it's good that I wasn't chasing SD18.

Anyway, all that to say -- the other night I had the kind of dream that Freudian analysts, um, dream about hearing. The dream was that my therapist had something to show me in the sky in the woods, like a bird or a constellation or something. It must have been fall or winter, because the sky was bright light gray and there were few or no leaves on the white trunk trees. Everything was kind of light gray/brown. She climbed a tree and I followed her. Then, we saw a bear. I think it was on the ground originally, but then it started climbing the tree next to ours. I wasn't terrified, but had an "academic" sense of "I should go through the checklist of what you do when a bear approaches -- make yourself look bigger, maybe?" We held out our hands in a "stop" position but the bear kept coming, so I took my hands, turned them palm out and fingers to the center, and pressed them on the bear's eyes. In my dream, I could physically feel the bear and its eyes moving. Then, the bear moved past me. Apparently it was a female bear who had recently given birth, because it then delivered the placenta, which distracted it, and it went down to the ground and ate it.

So.... I think I'm processing something, but haven't landed on it yet.

[jaded7]

Continued from here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358276.0

Not a ton going on... fortunately? Just bits and pieces. It may be that because H and I are back in the "perpetrator" position on the Triangle, the situation has stabilized back in a familiar place. That's the only reason I can think of for why Mom and Stepdad haven't been more aggressive/unpredictable. Or, they're so wrapped up in their own relational dramas, or both. IDK.

...

The CPS investigation is still going on. They were last in contact with me in late May, asking about if H or I had any substance abuse or MH diagnoses, where we worked & had ever lived, etc. I haven't checked on the report lately but feel OK with not checking. It isn't due to complete for another month or so.

...

I was taking SD16 to school a week ago and was asking about her weekend (she did something a few hours out of town), and she mentioned that she drove up with "Name", so I asked if that was a school friend, and she said no, it's Mom's girlfriend who is really cool. Apparently that is the person we saw with Mom at SD16's school play a month or two ago. So, that's confirmed.

...

SD16 stayed both nights with us this past weekend, which was nice. No trying to make other plans or go back to Mom's. I am grateful for that and just have to take each weekend as it comes, not making it personal. She and H love scary movies, so it was funny -- they were watching a horror movie Sunday night, and I kept going out to check on her, and finally she was like "even though I sound terrified, I'm actually enjoying this and I'm fine". It was a good reality check for me -- I don't need to manage her experiences, she can handle it.

...

H and I have a call with SD18 once a week or so. She has sounded happy and relaxed, which is nice. We just talk about what she and her SO are doing, what foods they're cooking and trying, stuff like that -- nothing heavy.

...

As unrelated as this sounds, I typically have bland dreams (usually about stuff we have already done, like driving in the car, grocery shopping, going to work, or tropey stuff like "I'm back in high school but don't know my class schedule"). Sunday night, though, I had a doozy, which I think might be related to the kids and this whole situation, but I'm not sure how. Also related is that many years ago -- maybe 10 years ago -- SD18 told me about a dream she had had, that she told her mom. The dream was that SD18 was running through the forest being chased by a bear, and I was there, but I was sitting on a pillow. Somehow between her and her mom, the interpretation was something like "kells76 doesn't really help SD18, kells76 doesn't really do anything". I'd recently told that dream to someone, who commented -- so who is the bear? Why didn't Mom want to say who the bear was? With the implication -- maybe it was Mom who was chasing SD18 in the dream, and maybe it's good that I wasn't chasing SD18.

Anyway, all that to say -- the other night I had the kind of dream that Freudian analysts, um, dream about hearing. The dream was that my therapist had something to show me in the sky in the woods, like a bird or a constellation or something. It must have been fall or winter, because the sky was bright light gray and there were few or no leaves on the white trunk trees. Everything was kind of light gray/brown. She climbed a tree and I followed her. Then, we saw a bear. I think it was on the ground originally, but then it started climbing the tree next to ours. I wasn't terrified, but had an "academic" sense of "I should go through the checklist of what you do when a bear approaches -- make yourself look bigger, maybe?" We held out our hands in a "stop" position but the bear kept coming, so I took my hands, turned them palm out and fingers to the center, and pressed them on the bear's eyes. In my dream, I could physically feel the bear and its eyes moving. Then, the bear moved past me. Apparently it was a female bear who had recently given birth, because it then delivered the placenta, which distracted it, and it went down to the ground and ate it.

So.... I think I'm processing something, but haven't landed on it yet.

Kells...it's nice to hear that things are going relatively smoothly for you, and you were able to spend some good time with SD and watch her enjoy some movies with your H.

The dream.....my goodness. Have you consulted any dream interpretation guides? The part that your therapist had something to show you! And it was winter, and the bear approaching you. I know nothing about dreams, but it seems there are some archetypes there?

You're so helpful to everyone here, I'm glad that things are relatively calm for you now.

[livednlearned]

Substance abuse or MH issues? Huh. I wonder if that's just checklist stuff or if mom and/or stepdad made an effort to level the playing field?

I wouldn't be surprised if things are relatively quiet because of the other relationships like you suggested. I mean, the conditions in the house kinda suggest benign neglect of the kids in general. Whatever charge mom and stepdad got from triangulating seems to have run its course. Maybe because SD18 found a path to independence? In the logic of some BPD families, it tracks that the emerging independence of teens might parallel parental interest in other relationships. But who knows. It's good you don't have a lot of boulders rolling your way even if it's hard to vacate the lookout...

The dream you describe is fascinating given all that's been going on!

[GaGrl]

The dream...

Gestalt dream theory posits that everything and everyone in your dream actually is You, a manifestation of you or a part or aspect of you.

So, you might think about what aspect of you is represented by the therapist and by the bear.

[kells76]

The dream.....my goodness. Have you consulted any dream interpretation guides? The part that your therapist had something to show you! And it was winter, and the bear approaching you. I know nothing about dreams, but it seems there are some archetypes there?

I haven't yet, but I may. I've sort of settled on "the dream means what I decide that it means", vs feeling a need to hunt for a mystical meaning from beyond.

My T was 100% in T mode (asking "what do you think it means"  ) but did offer that what she typically focuses on is how you feel during and then when you wake up from the dream. For me, within the dream, it felt completely clear and well-defined, like each role and piece of scenery and prop was in total focus, and also emotionally neutral; and, when I woke up, I didn't have any lingering or unresolved or upsetting feelings. Again, total clarity. But clarity about what, not sure yet.

Substance abuse or MH issues? Huh. I wonder if that's just checklist stuff or if mom and/or stepdad made an effort to level the playing field?

No idea, but if I go through this again, I'll let you know if it's on the checklist 

I wouldn't be surprised if things are relatively quiet because of the other relationships like you suggested. I mean, the conditions in the house kinda suggest benign neglect of the kids in general. Whatever charge mom and stepdad got from triangulating seems to have run its course. Maybe because SD18 found a path to independence? In the logic of some BPD families, it tracks that the emerging independence of teens might parallel parental interest in other relationships. But who knows. It's good you don't have a lot of boulders rolling your way even if it's hard to vacate the lookout...

In the sense of -- when the teen becomes more independent, she is less available to partner the parent, so the parent looks elsewhere for that external support/sense of self?

Gestalt dream theory posits that everything and everyone in your dream actually is You, a manifestation of you or a part or aspect of you.

So, you might think about what aspect of you is represented by the therapist and by the bear.

That's been interesting for me to chew on. I haven't landed anywhere yet, but it was such a clear-cut dream with such a limited "cast" (me, my T, the bear) and "props" (the trees, the placenta) and even color scheme (gray, brown, etc) that writing it out and maybe free-associating or speculating could be helpful.

It just struck me that in the dream, my T was telling me to look at/see something, while I was preventing the bear from looking/seeing.

...

DHS called and they are closing the investigation. The worker said that neglect was Unfounded and threat of harm was Undetermined.

She said that whatever the reason, even if Mom's house did a marathon cleaning session, the house looked OK. She said it wasn't a huge issue that we did not have mutual contacts more recent than a few years, that wasn't the "make it or break it issue". She said it was kind of an issue that SD18 is an adult now, as CPS services don't apply to her. What she recommended is reminding the kids they can share stuff with us and they can live with us if they don't want to live in the conditions at Mom's. She said it can be an issue when teens bring up stuff from the longer-ago past, and/or bring stuff up from a while ago and comment "but it isn't really bothering me now". She recommended calling the screening services as soon as possible whenever I hear or observe something that could be a concern, and letting screening assess it. So it was kind of an immediacy issue.

[livednlearned]

In the sense of -- when the teen becomes more independent, she is less available to partner the parent, so the parent looks elsewhere for that external support/sense of self?

Yes, exactly. At least that's been my observation, mostly with H's ex (who started an affair when her oldest child became a teen). We also noticed that the neglect/abuse flared and or shifted to the next child as the older one more or less became independent. I think SD30 fared the best because there were 2 other kids at home for mom to target, and an affair partner. When SD27 went to college (with severe emotional and psychiatric issues), BPD mom shifted her focus to SD24. He's the one that feels most like a rescue mission, which is saying a lot because SD27 required a lot of rescuing. Our hypothesis is that BPD mom needs SD24 at home so she has a built-in triangulation in the house with her now husband, so she sabotages SD24 when he tries to do anything that hints of independence.

DHS called and they are closing the investigation. The worker said that neglect was Unfounded and threat of harm was Undetermined.

Does SD18 know?

[kells76]

Yes, exactly. At least that's been my observation, mostly with H's ex (who started an affair when her oldest child became a teen). We also noticed that the neglect/abuse flared and or shifted to the next child as the older one more or less became independent. I think SD30 fared the best because there were 2 other kids at home for mom to target, and an affair partner. When SD27 went to college (with severe emotional and psychiatric issues), BPD mom shifted her focus to SD24. He's the one that feels most like a rescue mission, which is saying a lot because SD27 required a lot of rescuing. Our hypothesis is that BPD mom needs SD24 at home so she has a built-in triangulation in the house with her now husband, so she sabotages SD24 when he tries to do anything that hints of independence.

That'll be interesting to see if Mom starts to focus on B11 that way -- maybe "allowing" SD16 some independence as long as B11 "will never leave her". I hadn't thought about that before, because SD18 had been the focus for so long.

Does SD18 know?

I just got the call today so I'm not sure. I'll talk to H later today and see if we want to update SD18 on our own. DHS does have SD18's email address.

Also, apparently in our state Unfounded equals Unsubstantiated. I may call the worker back to clarify, because she did use the two different terms for the two different areas.

[livednlearned]

Also, apparently in our state Unfounded equals Unsubstantiated. I may call the worker back to clarify, because she did use the two different terms for the two different areas.

I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if I were receiving that DHS report ... on one hand there's all this emphasis on mandatory reporting, which (at least for me) escalated my anxiety but didn't make me feel like (then) S11 was necessarily being protected.

Our situation was DHS-adjacent so not quite the same as what you went through. My ex was having what I discovered later was a full-blown psychotic episode while S11 was there. When I called 911, I was encouraged to let them send law enforcement for a well-child check, but they couldn't guarantee an outcome in which (then) S11 came home with me. So then I had to think through the consequences of sending some random officer to the house, who got to decide if the situation was safe following no criteria except they would know when they got there. It was like they were saying Trust Us, let us go in with a wrecking ball when what I needed was a surgical tool and some assurance that people would err on S11's safety, even if things weren't clear in that moment.

It also seems like people who are mandatory reporters don't always think through how a report that comes back unfounded might play out in our families. On the upside, there is a paper trail in case more stuff happens. Then the narrative would be, "This is the second time, we're seeing some kind of pattern."

But in the short-term it's so anxiety-producing with no clear outcomes.

If you look at this episode as a way for SD18 to escalate her concerns so that she could leave on her trip with some peace of mind, it seems like that objective was accomplished. In terms of what could DHS actionably do given that mom and stepdad were seemingly competent enough to tidy up, at a minimum that's better for SD16 and B11 even if it's temporary. And oddly enough, even if stepdad feels vindicated, I would be surprised if he isn't on high alert in some way, even if he can't consistently behave himself. He just learned that the girls are not afraid to get outside help.

[kells76]

Just getting some observations "on paper" to process a little bit.

We attended SD16's sports event a couple of weeks ago. She did awesome (got MVP!) and we are so proud  

Stepdad showed up with his GF, then Mom showed up with the same large guy we'd seen her with before (but Mom's GF wasn't there this time). No B11 either. Stepdad greeted both Mom and "boyfriend" with a hug. Midway through, Mom seemed pissed and stormed out. Stepdad followed a minute later. I have no idea how that shook out -- didn't see them again when we left.

Fortunately that did not impact SD16 spending time with us (it was our weekend together). No "can't I just go with Mom" stuff after the event. So, whew? It's all still weird and I am working on finding balance between downplaying it and overplaying it. I think I need to give it airtime here and then know I don't have to always be thinking about it after that. If it's relevant to the future then I'll know in the future.

Saturday SD16 and I were chatting about the cats (we have one at our house and SD16 has one at Mom's). I said we needed to get our kitty a new flea collar (proactive; he doesn't have fleas), and SD16 said "I don't think it's working any more for [her cat], he has fleas again". He is an indoor only cat and there are no dogs or other cats at Mom's. All I was able to think of to say at that point was "do you think you'll try giving him more baths?"

All the warning lights are flashing in my head. Fleas were part of why we called CPS last time (not the full reason or biggest concern, but it was bad). I mean, I was guessing that Mom couldn't "hold it together" but now my brain is running with it and imagining that things are unsafe there again.

H and I are on the same page that we won't rescue/enable again (we bought them a flea fogger last time) and will step back and let things play out.

I'm not really sure what I need from posting this besides to have it not be a secret, in a weird way?

If I were to articulate a skilled approach to myself, it would be what I tell others here:

"It's ok to notice and pay attention to things that would seem inconsequential to others. Be confident that even if right now it isn't clear what to do (if anything) about it, if you need to do something in the future you will know. It is also ok if this is nothing."

Working on talking myself down a bit, while honoring the fact that noticing details has mattered in the past.

[jaded7]

Just getting some observations "on paper" to process a little bit.

We attended SD16's sports event a couple of weeks ago. She did awesome (got MVP!) and we are so proud  

Stepdad showed up with his GF, then Mom showed up with the same large guy we'd seen her with before (but Mom's GF wasn't there this time). No B11 either. Stepdad greeted both Mom and "boyfriend" with a hug. Midway through, Mom seemed pissed and stormed out. Stepdad followed a minute later. I have no idea how that shook out -- didn't see them again when we left.

Fortunately that did not impact SD16 spending time with us (it was our weekend together). No "can't I just go with Mom" stuff after the event. So, whew? It's all still weird and I am working on finding balance between downplaying it and overplaying it. I think I need to give it airtime here and then know I don't have to always be thinking about it after that. If it's relevant to the future then I'll know in the future.

Saturday SD16 and I were chatting about the cats (we have one at our house and SD16 has one at Mom's). I said we needed to get our kitty a new flea collar (proactive; he doesn't have fleas), and SD16 said "I don't think it's working any more for [her cat], he has fleas again". He is an indoor only cat and there are no dogs or other cats at Mom's. All I was able to think of to say at that point was "do you think you'll try giving him more baths?"

All the warning lights are flashing in my head. Fleas were part of why we called CPS last time (not the full reason or biggest concern, but it was bad). I mean, I was guessing that Mom couldn't "hold it together" but now my brain is running with it and imagining that things are unsafe there again.

H and I are on the same page that we won't rescue/enable again (we bought them a flea fogger last time) and will step back and let things play out.

I'm not really sure what I need from posting this besides to have it not be a secret, in a weird way?

If I were to articulate a skilled approach to myself, it would be what I tell others here:

"It's ok to notice and pay attention to things that would seem inconsequential to others. Be confident that even if right now it isn't clear what to do (if anything) about it, if you need to do something in the future you will know. It is also ok if this is nothing."

Working on talking myself down a bit, while honoring the fact that noticing details has mattered in the past.

Morning Kells....I just saw this post and wanted to acknowledge it and, in the process, acknowledge how thoughtful and helpful you are to everyone here on the boards.

I recognize the value of just sharing here, not keeping things a 'secret' when you are processing. I think it's super helpful, even the act of writing it out can be therapeutic. The flea issue is a kind of indicator of potential problems arising, a canary in the coal mine kind of thing I'm guessing. Which then leads to rescuing type behavior. And you noticed it, and are processing it.

Details are where we can get stuck, at least for me. Going over the details and trying to fit them into some narrative that 'makes sense', but at least in my case they never made sense to me. Trying to fit details of words and behavior into a narrative of love and respect. Didn't work.

Details are my struggle, and I'm sure for a lot of others here too.

Just wanted to thank you for this. This has got my mind settling a little bit.

I think our brains try and try to make sense of things that may not make sense in our worldview.

[livednlearned]

I appreciate these insights too  

I'm 14 years out of my n/BPDx marriage.
I'm 12 years into my marriage to H, whose daughter SD27 has BPD traits) and a BPDx.

SD27 lights my nervous system up like a christmas tree.

The vigilance has been both helpful and exhausting. I kind of swing back and forth now, where sometimes I can get down to a 2 but for a while just hearing her name would jack things to a 9.

Part of the problem in our current dynamic is that there was a pervasive pattern of pretending her behaviors were normal. The effect is that I have to be even more vigilant in my nervous system because no one else is paying attention, but as a stepparent I don't feel like I can bang any gongs since there is a pact here that we don't do that. Noise is bad.  

I'm kind of jumping in the fray with BPDx family / stepparenting dynamics after a fairly quiet period with only a handful of flare-ups involving SD27. I'm paying attention to the details of BPDx family dynamics like a boss because I know it will matter down the line.

My nervous system is lighting up more and it seems like it's more in a proactive preventative way ... do you feel like there's a difference for you? Or does it feel like a PTSD kind of thing, where you are processing what just happened?

[kells76]

SD27 lights my nervous system up like a christmas tree.

The vigilance has been both helpful and exhausting. I kind of swing back and forth now, where sometimes I can get down to a 2 but for a while just hearing her name would jack things to a 9. 

Hearing Stepdad's name would also do that to me. I got a new coworker a couple of years ago with the same name, so I think the exposure has been desensitizing, which is good. I can't just call my coworker "Hey... you...".

Part of the problem in our current dynamic is that there was a pervasive pattern of pretending her behaviors were normal. The effect is that I have to be even more vigilant in my nervous system because no one else is paying attention, but as a stepparent I don't feel like I can bang any gongs since there is a pact here that we don't do that. Noise is bad. 

I'm kind of jumping in the fray with BPDx family / stepparenting dynamics after a fairly quiet period with only a handful of flare-ups involving SD27. I'm paying attention to the details of BPDx family dynamics like a boss because I know it will matter down the line.

That's my conundrum. I tell myself "nobody else is seeing the picture/details like I am, so because I'm convinced (and the past has convinced me) that I must monitor every detail, I'm justified in my approach.

But is that just a fancy way for me to justify my dysfunctional coping? What if I'm actually feeling out of control, which is uncomfortable and terrifying, and I want to feel in control, but I can paint all these controlly things I do as "this will matter, I'm just doing my job, I'm doing it for the kids and not for my own feelings"?

My nervous system is lighting up more and it seems like it's more in a proactive preventative way ... do you feel like there's a difference for you? Or does it feel like a PTSD kind of thing, where you are processing what just happened?

I think it does feel more like a "I'm on alert because I'm doing my job" thing than a "I'm blindsided and overwhelmed by a repetition of past feelings" thing. But then again, see above.

...

I think this ties in to my latest question.

It's kind of a 4/10 in urgency, not a 10/10, but I could use some feedback from the group.

A friend of mine (who is also a distant relation thru marriage) pulled me aside the other day and asked if I could clarify for her if Mom and Stepdad were in a "throuple" with Stepdad's girlfriend. Apparently my friend's sister-in-law, who I'm lightly acquainted with, was asking my friend if it was true. I gave a brief response while trying to keep it focused on the kids' safety.

My question is if I ask my friend how her SIL got the info.

On the one hand, I have significant concerns for the kids' safety, as I haven't heard or seen anything that would indicate that things are getting safer and/or more stable at Mom's house. What little information trickles out does not strike confidence in me that they're getting their S-H together. It's not like I'm hearing things are getting a lot worse, but what does that even mean? I'm ready to do anything if it means the kids will be safer. And it isn't clear to me the connection that my friend's SIL has with Mom and Stepdad. Yes, we're all from the same smallish subcommunity here in town, but SIL lives across the country and AFAIK isn't friends with/staying in touch with Mom. So knowing who she knows who has eyes on the situation could help me know another person to turn to to keep an eye on things (given that SD18 is out of the country, SD16 plays it close to the chest, we have no connection to B11, and Mom/Stepdad are totally out of communication with us).

On the other hand, it would be easy to fool myself that "I'm just doing this for the kids" when in reality I'm doing it because the situation feels out of my control and I'm anxious. I want to know what's going on and I want to feel less anxious and more prepared. I feel like the shoe has been about to drop for weeks (months... years) and it is hard for me to sit with that discomfort.

It could be gossipy for me to ask for that info when it's not like I'm hearing "my SIL told me that she saw Stepdad driving dangerously with the kids in the car". Again, I think I can see that this is like a 4/10, not an 11/10. But the thing is -- right now it's a 4/10, but at any minute, things could suddenly escalate to an 11/10. So I feel like I can't just tell myself "the past is over, you're just having a PTSD response, this is a 4 so you can back off and not be vigilant". Because I feel like our history is that we think we're at a 4 and then in the blink of an eye we're at an 11.

Any insight appreciated as I try to practice what I preach and sit with discomfort.

[livednlearned]

it would be easy to fool myself that "I'm just doing this for the kids" when in reality I'm doing it because the situation feels out of my control and I'm anxious.

This is a great insight and I'm grateful you share things like this here. I know I've learned from you when you post these kinds of observations.

I'm going through something similar with my stepson right now and I'm curious to hear if you think the situation is similar. SS25's BPD mom is the perpetrator in the drama triangle as he describes it (confirmed by his two sisters). She undermines him when he tries to gain independence, first pushing him to move out then making it nearly impossible for him to do so. He's autistic (ASD1) and needs the support of a caring adult to launch.

This is catnip to a rescuer type like me and yet ... he needs help. I can help him.

For you maybe it's more about the feeling of being out of control or anxious? For me it's some anxiety, mixed with love for SS25, but there is also this rescue streak that I try to keep an eye on.

I notice I get a certain feeling when I'm in rescue mode. When those feelings come up, I take "opposite action" which is usually some version of doing nothing, letting go, sitting on my hands.

It forces me to pay attention to whatever comes up by doing nothing. To be honest, it can feel ... neurotic. Like something panic-worthy is happening even though very little if anything has changed other than me redirecting myself.

If I'm remembering correctly, I learned about opposite action from Harriet Lerner's writing on over and underfunctioning (can't remember which one of her books...), something that helped me check when I'm "managing" situations in ways that inadvertently create the opposite effect of what I'm hoping to accomplish.

Not sure if that's helpful. I guess it's not really about whether you call or don't call, it's about how you feel if you do one or the other and what that tells you. Since you're coming off a big adrenaline event I would suspect your nervous system is more primed that normal for another big event, which might be why you're hitting pause?

For me, I don't know that there is necessarily a right or wrong way, as long as whatever I'm doing is moving in the direction of self-awareness. If you reach out to do some investigating, maybe pay attention to how you feel and take note?

Sometimes I have to wade into the water, there's just no other way. But hopefully I learn from it so that next time I can figure out what clues to pay attention to and avoid having to wade the whole way in just to learn what I already knew.  

In your situation, did you feel like the question was coming from a place of gossip? Or judgment? Or concern for the kids and their well-being ...