Does it get better

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am so confused. I have read that over time the bpd will get better. But according to most of the posts on this board...it seems to be a lifelong condition? Am I wrong, has anybody noticed any improvement in their bpd mother father son or daughter?.

[Waitinghope]

I am so confused. I have read that over time the bpd will get better. But according to most of the posts on this board...it seems to be a lifelong condition? Am I wrong, has anybody noticed any improvement in their bpd mother father son or daughter?.

[Methuen]

I have read this too, but it isn't my experience.  I am suspicious of any broad "generalization". Generalizations are just that -> generalizations which are not facts.  It rips me when I read that in books, or more rarely when it is even presented by someone on this board, because it is not a "fact".  As you say, many of us here are dealing with elderly parents with BPD.  My mom is 88, and her behaviors only worsened with age and the loss of physical and cognitive capabilities, which makes sense when you think about it.  As they age and get weaker and have more serious chronic health problems, their stress increases as does their need for attention to address all those debilitating health problems.  My mother expected me to stop living my life (which included working for employment), and only cater to her needs.  In her mind "I owed her that because she gave birth to me and raised me".  I actually have that in a recording in one of her rages. She became very demanding and controlling, and I basically either became her slave or I was accused of "not loving her".  It was emotional blackmail.  It has taken me a long time and been a painful process to work through all this.

I am also a mother and I think differently from my mom.  I believe it's a conscious decision to be a parent.  It was my job to love and nurture my children and support and care for them.  They are adults now, and they owe me nothing, because I chose to be a mother.  My love for them was and continues to be unconditional, although I confess having to very occasionally work at this with some intention.  H and I do not "expect" our children to "take care of us" in our sunset/sundowning years - especially not after our experience with my dysfunctional mom.  We will never do to our kids what my mom has done to us.

My mom is not a good person.  She is self-absorbed, completely unaware, mean and controlling.  

Absolutely a lifelong condition for her and others on this board.  

To think "BPD cures or outgrows itself" by middle age is not reasonable in my opinion.  No disease "fixes" itself.  If it does, then maybe it was misdiagnosed. I think some people can overcome it or learn to manage it with therapy or intention or their own personal growth. Perhaps those are the people being written about.  But I think those same books need to acknowledge that some pwBPD don't overcome this disease.

Believing that BPD will get better on it's own and waiting for it to happen isn't likely to be helpful.

[GaGrl]

The uBPD/NPD in our life is my husband's ex-wife and mother of their children. Her earlier behaviors were primarily focused on self-gratification -- lots of sexual affairs, using sexual partners for money, rages when told no, benign neglect of the children.

It is different now, but not better or easier. She has a long-time partner on which she projects the highest level of paranoia. -- security cameras inside and outside, nailed the windows shut, and she locks the two of them in the bedroom at night and wears the key on a chain, all to keep him from "sneaking out to see his girlfriend," but yet she still rages and accuses him.

So...different, not better.

[Joyful Noise]

Dear GaGrl,

We (myself; mom, and my two adult daughters) are now six years into complete loss of contact (other than a total of two hours I have been able to see him) with my adult son who is married to a pwBPD.  I hold ZERO expectation at this point that his PBD spouse will get better.  Her classic BPD behaviors/actions have only become more ingrained -as they are working for her in getting what she wants, regardless of the cost to those around her.   

She has completely and totally isolated my son, her spouse from any and all other relationships in his life, save the one he has with his (diagnosed) sociopath, NPD father (yes, my son has effectively married his father).  My son's entire world, other than the two small children is his committed to taking care of under very difficult circumstances (I am proud of him for this), is totally void of any other family and friends; new or old. He goes to work, takes care of his children and has fully muted his own Soul at this point, in a bargain to try and keep the peace in his relationship.  He is a hostage. And it's heartbreaking to see that so very clearly. He is "gone" to himself; his core being.  ~The threat, to the BPD wife is that his being in contact with his wider family will remind him of WHO HE IS (very loved, extremely bright, creative funny, an expansive thinker and a hard worker).  And that, of course, would touch on the BPD's fear of abandonment.   So, we are all painted black.

I do not see a speck of light breaking through in this situation and after six years, I am arriving at a place of acceptance of how truly dark this whole thing is.  One cannot reason with mental illness (this is a new one for me..).
Even the literature that claims there to be a lessening of BPD symptoms over the years, states that the issue of this pathological fear of abandonment is NOT one of the symptoms that falls away.  -In my estimation, this social isolation of their partner is the most damaging impact they can have on a person who is in relationship with them.

The World Health Organization has classified controlling behaviors by an intimate partner that result in social isolation from family and friends to be a form of intimate partner abuse. This is domestic violence.  It needs to be taken seriously.

[Notwendy]

The World Health Organization has classified controlling behaviors by an intimate partner that result in social isolation from family and friends to be a form of intimate partner abuse. This is domestic violence.  It needs to be taken seriously.

I agree and it is likely your son is also experiencing other forms of abuse- verbal and emotional.

My father was in a similar situation. It felt like he had Stockholm syndrome. He got ill in his elder years and I was concerned about his physical condition at the time being in this situation. I called adult social services to see if there was anything I could do. This was the reply- my father was legally competent. Unless he agreed to allow them to intervene- there was nothing they could do, and nothing I could do.

This is the dilemma. If my father were under 18, or not mentally competent, then it would be possible to intervene on his behalf. However, he chose this situation and to stay in it.

I think in the early years, my father resisted my mother's mindset but doing so was an impossible situation. He had to suspend his own thinking and comply with hers or it was continous conflict ( it seemed like conflict anyway). Everything else was secondary- not his relationship with me, not with his siblings and not with his own parents. This was unimaginable to me until I experienced this discard myself.

My parents were one person. Now, when my mother says something, she sounds a lot like my father. Which makes me wonder - does she sound like him or did he sound like her? I don't know. I know married people can have a lot in common but my H and I still have our own ideas and thoughts. My parents shared an email address. Anything I said to my father was shared with her.

That said, my father did parent us when we were children, while my BPD mother did not. I was bonded to him as a parent. I still attribute the good in my childhood to him.

I believe that isolating someone from family and friends is an abusive behavior and that it probably isn't the only one. I understand that your son and his wife have created a very hurtful situation for you and your family. I also know that it's hurtful for you to think of what he must be experiencing, however, he would be the one to decide to change it if he wanted to.

[Joyful Noise]

Extreme, enforced and prolonged social isolation of the non-BPD partner by the pwBPD:

This devastating issue of intimate partner psychological violence is beginning to receive the serious legal consideration it deserves.

Countries that have criminalized the serious, repetitive social isolation imposed on intimate partners that is evident in relationships such as BPD partnerships as criminal acts include France (2010; the punishable offense carries a maximum sentence of three years in prison and a $51,345 fine), England & Wales (2015; coercive control in intimate relationships became a criminal offense),
and now Scotland has also enacted such laws. Ireland followed suit in 2018. 

And in Denmark intimate partner enforced social isolation now carries the same criminal sentences as physical domestic violence.  -Let that sink in.. This was not an easy law to get passed. It's gaining this recognition is a huge statement of how truly damaging  BPD-enforced social isolation is on the non-PBD partner.

The articles circulating that make claims that persons with BPD  -EVEN in the absence of therapeutic treatment, "get better naturally with age" are doing everyone a grave disservice, including the pwPBD.

Dismissing the reality of intimate partner violence evidenced in the extreme social isolation many BPD individuals demand of their partners only serves to drive this horrific situation underground -and pass it along to another generation via the children who grow up under such influences and stresses.

[Joyful Noise]

NotWendy,

Thank you for your reply; very good points and much to agree with. 

[zachira]

I have several disordered family members. My mother who had BPD is deceased. My experience is that the person with BPD changes with age because their life becomes more challenging due to age related declines in physical and emotional health.

[Notwendy]

I have read that too although, from my own experience, my elderly mother with BPD still continues to be effected by it. I think the PD's are relatively fixed. Although it's said there's improvement with therapy- I think the pwBPD has to be motivated to work with that. My BPD mother is not and so therapy has not been effective.

My own idea about "improvement" is that for most people, our behavior changes over time. It's not as common to see 40 year olds out partying like 20 year olds. So if someone has BPD and impulsive behaviors- how they express these behaviors may also change over time. My BPD mother's rage episodes are less physical now- so one may consider that improvement- but I would say it's different- she's not going to express rage in the same way. Few people act the same at 40, 50, and up, that they did at 20.

I see BPD behaviors as disordered ways of coping with stress, so they may change according to circumstances but the person still has BPD.

[Methuen]

The articles circulating that make claims that persons with BPD  -EVEN in the absence of therapeutic treatment, "get better naturally with age" are doing everyone a grave disservice, including the pwPBD.

Thank you!

In my experience, to claim that a disease dissolves away or gets better with age is wishful thinking.  I have no doubt that some people with "bpd" may grow awareness and empathy and a desire to improve their relationships, but to broadly claim that all Borderlines will improve with age without therapy is I believe, misleading, and potentially harmful. 

Dismissing the reality of intimate partner violence evidenced in the extreme social isolation many BPD individuals demand of their partners only serves to drive this horrific situation underground -and pass it along to another generation via the children who grow up under such influences and stresses.

Countries that have criminalized the serious, repetitive social isolation imposed on intimate partners that is evident in relationships such as BPD partnerships as criminal acts include France (2010; the punishable offense carries a maximum sentence of three years in prison and a $51,345 fine), England & Wales (2015; coercive control in intimate relationships became a criminal offense),
and now Scotland has also enacted such laws. Ireland followed suit in 2018. 

And in Denmark intimate partner enforced social isolation now carries the same criminal sentences as physical domestic violence.  -Let that sink in.. This was not an easy law to get passed. It's gaining this recognition is a huge statement of how truly damaging  BPD-enforced social isolation is on the non-PBD partner.

This is interesting.  It gives me hope. 

My mother is my pwBPD.  But when my father was ill, my BPD mother could not cope.  He had advancing dementia and she did not have the personal resources to manage the stress.  Even a mentally healthy partner will struggle as this disease advances, but my mother couldn't cope from early on.  However, she pretended to the outside world like she was his angelic wife taking care of him, because this was the ideal she wanted to be.  She refused ALL outside help.  But inside their 4 walls it was different.  She was mean, condescending, and emotionally abusive, screaming at him in a rage that he was a retard.  One day, dad asked me to take him to see his Dr.  So I did, and as dad shared his story to his doctor, the doctor looked at him and said "it sounds like your wife has borderline personality disorder".  After that, and witnessing mom repeatedly calling him a retard, I confidentially notified his community care case manager, and had multiple conversations with her.  Then she had a private meeting with dad (mom wasn't invited), and some time later, he got into long term care.  I suspect this is because he was given the choice to stay with mom or go into care, but I'm speculating and don't know for sure.  However, I believe that the bar for "isolation" of my dad would have been met, because she would not allow outside help into the home.  Nothing changed until dad asked for an appointment with his doctor, and I disclosed what was really going on to his case manager.  Mom had good "cover" though, because she trained as a nurse (in the 1950's), and so the optics were that his wife would take care of him.  That was the narrative mom spread. 

As my mom has aged (that was 20 years ago and she is now 88), her BPD has magnified in my opinion. 

I have come a long way with therapy, but she still has some control over me.  I returned to work out of retirement 2 1/2 years ago to escape her emotional abuse (we live in the same town).  I shouldn't feel like I have to do that to feel safe.  Now, I have reduced hours and only work 3 days a week, but on my days off, I don't feel safe to go to a coffee shop or restaurant in the event one of her friends sees me, and mentions it to her.  Mom's logic: I should be spending all my free time helping her because she is so badly off, and if I don't, then I don't love her, and she screams at me and fires off toxic garbage about what a terrible daughter I am.  In fact, I have been an amazing daughter who took her on trips throughout my life, catered to her needs from the time I was 5 (as early as I can remember), made her my matron of honour at my wedding,  and involved her in every aspect of my life including my friends. I made her my "best friend" throughout my life.  I took care of her (4-5 hours a day at her house) when she had her falls as she aged, and the abuse just got worse and worse and I got more and more miserable.  She demanded to move in with us.  When we set a boundary and said we couldn't do that, she went ballistic.  That was about 10 years ago.

Now I am 62 and I have no illusions about BPD.  It doesn't just "go away with age".  In my mom's case, it got worse.  I could not have done more to be a good daughter.  But none of it mattered, because at the end of the day, if I'm not letting her move into my house to abuse me all she wants while I take personal care of her, I'm the worst daughter possible and that's what she screams at me. 

There was a time when I believed I just had to try harder.  I'm past that now.

All her unresolved childhood trauma is stored in her body, and her body is a wreck.  This feeds her need to feel a victim and demand attention from others to take care of her.  She grooms kind people to "help her". She's very good at getting others to do things for her.  She spots "helpers" a mile away.  And she can be charming. They probably have no idea, or maybe they do and can't escape her because of guilt.  I feel her narcissism has grown, her ego has grown (how she see's herself is not based in reality), her entitlement has grown, she is bathed in her self-absorption, and her negativity and mean-ness has grown. 

After retiring from my career about 7 years ago, I worked in a women's shelter for a year as a transition into retirement because I was interested in the work, and because it was a 9-4 job which was a lot less than the 60-80 hour weeks I had worked during my career.  It was interesting work and I learned a lot.  I definitely don't buy in that the diagnosed BPD/NPD men who abused those women would "get better with age".  And my mom certainly didn't get better with age.  So WaitingHope, I would not put any stock whatsoever into BPD "improving with age".  It could be setting you up for grave disappointment. 

[Notwendy]

Methuen, your father's story is similar to my father's. My parents presented their typical front that my mother is normal. His health care providers and her family and friends assumed she was "taking wonderful care of him".

It didn't appear like that to me when I visited. I got concerned and spoke to his doctor (who I don't think believed me completely- at least not at first) and social services. I was genuinely concerned for his own well being. This was "against" the unspoken family rule to not reveal my mother's behavior to anyone but I felt it was necessary. Home health was arranged but my parents found something they didn't like about each one of them and so they would dismiss them. I didn't see this as a form of isolation- but it makes sense in that context.

The other aspect of this is that my father was firmly in the role of protector for my mother. It was at this time that I suggested they consider continuing care communities/assisted living because there, he would get care and my mother could be supported but my parents refused to consider them. I think a part of this was my father's wish to protect my mother from "discovery".

As a child, I was worried about bringing any friends over to play because they might see my mother in one of her bad moods and I'd feel embarrassed. It didn't occur to me that perhaps my father may have had similar concerns and to protect her. Some family members have mentioned to me that my parents never invited them over. They assumed my parents were being snobby. The actual reason is that one can not predict what someone would see if they did come over. My mother might be in a good mood or be dysregulated.

This may play a part in the isolation from people closest to the couple- because they are the ones most likely to see through the veneer. I have seen my mother in her public persona and it's eerie to me- but others don't see that as this is who they know her to be. She can be very charming and engaging in public.  This may also be a part of why the non- BPD spouse participates in the isolation too. My father seemed invested in presenting my mother in a positive way.

It wasn't until my mother needed assistance herself that anyone outside the family began to notice her behaviors. This is when caregivers were in the house with her for extended time and they experienced them.