What it’s like being with an upwBPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey everyone. Writing here today to kind of vent out some of my frustrations and share with others some of my experiences with my wife with BPD.  I’ve posted on here before months ago.  I’m still contemplating what the right decision is in my marriage. To stay or leave?

Splitting and the emotional dis regulation of an undiagnosed person with BPD is something out of a movie..

My wife can on some days say things like “my life is perfect here! I love our house, dogs, chickens.  I have everything here!!” She can Be so cheerful and wonderful, thoughtful partner and person to be around.

And I believe she truly believes those feelings and acts genuinely in those moments. 

But then comes the split to the dark….

It can be so hard at times to be on the receiving end of a split… I don’t always know what can cause it or when it’s coming. 

But when it does, my wife will act snarky, short, annoyed, or frustrated/angry… she will cold shoulder or act generally bothered by me for hours… sometimes days. She will talk short to me.  Side eye me.. And if called out on her behaviors she will redirect to something I did or escalate, bring up old disagreements.  Blame me for why she’s acting like that.  (To which I’ll listen and try to make changes in myself for her sake/happiness)

Her reasons for her behaviors vary hugely but are typically focused on something I did or didn’t do for her (or “our marriage” as she sees it).  Could be me not being available to hang out, dirty dishes/house, laundry, I didn’t go to bed with her at the same time, I spent too much time working.  Or if she wants me do something I’m either not available for, or simply want to do something else or have a different opinion on. (Like what color to paint the wall). Or if I say yes to something she asks me to do, but I say I can’t do it for a week or two.  Or if I’m unsure of when.  Uncertainty of anything is a big trigger for her.  The list is long and it goes on….

She’ll Threaten divorce if she’s not getting what she wants.  At the worst she’ll start talking about how “her life is nightmare” And “nothing matters”.  “I never do anything for her”. 

Start implying that her life is meaningless, or wants to die.  She’ll go full tantrum/ angry outburst or hysterical crying.  Hitting or throwing things. Hitting herself.  Sometimes she “goes blank” where I’ll try to to talk to her and she’s just staring into space.  Or gets instantly “SO TIRED” that she has to go lay down.  Sometimes she’ll leave the house unannounced for hours.  Block me on socials or my phone number as a means of control (to get me to worry, and ultimately Reach out)

Usually those behaviors or outbursts are during a conversation where she isn’t getting something she wants, or if she needs to take responsibility for something she did that made me feel bad.

She’ll do anything but take responsibility for what she said or did.  Every. Single. time. 

These outbursts are not quite daily, but anywhere from 3-7 days a week.  Some weeks I’m counting the days of peace.  I’m feel lucky to have a week of calm in my life right now.  Maybe every couple months is there a week of calm.

She refuses or is unable to empathize during these episodes, and she believes that “I hate her”.  She will claim i said or believe things that never happened or I don’t believe/didn’t say.  She will put words in my mouth… Usually focused on something negative toward her. Could be Her appearance, how she isn’t deserving of love / or other wants/needs.. 

Examples:

“I doesn’t deserve good things.”
“You hate me”
“You married a B**ch
“No one loves me”
“Everyone else has good things, NOT ME”
“I’m fat and ugly”
“My life is a nightmare”

And many more that are usually implying that I said or think terrible things about her.  But things I didn’t actually say, and don’t believe.

I’m often accused of being a narcissist and an abuser. Or she’ll tell me to “stop yelling or screaming”.   Typically as I’m calm, and she’s yelling and abusing me herself…

Also typical is to bring up any moment from our past, usually something I actually did or said that hurt her feelings.  Things I’ve apologized for many times over.  She’ll use these as ammo for her arguments… anything to avoid taking responsibility for her current (or very recent) behaviors, words or actions.

Everything is a constant redirection away from her, or she will project her own behaviors onto me. 

If I tell her she did or said something that makes me feel bad, she will redirect the conversation and make it about something else
I did to her last week, last year… or something “she thinks” I’ll do next week…..and then 10 minutes later when the conversation is confused and onto another topic (which she drove us to!!!). She will then start explaining how I make HER feel bad in the SAME way she’s making me feel… basically blaming/accusing me for doing what SHE ACTUALLY JUST did or said to ME. 

In these moments it’s so hard for me not get upset or angry, or to accuse her of living in a twisted reality.

To be blamed for something that in reality she just did, and there is proof (a voice or video recording) is maddening.  It sometimes drives me to a place where and I’ll say things I later regret and apologize for. 

Usually this is when I try to just walk out of the room/house… but that can usually trigger a big reaction from her. 

Sometimes she’ll be yelling or talking in an angry tone toward me… then immediately start talking in a cute and high pitched voice to our dogs or chickens in the same breath or a minute later.  Or she’ll be angry/cold with me, then play music and start singing and dancing in the other room.  Until I come in that room, she’ll immediately flip her attitude back to an angry one….

She knows how much that particular behavior insults me now, and she uses it to push me to yell back.

Sometimes I’ll ask her for a 5min or an hour break from The talk… but then she will accuse me of “controlling the conversations” and I “make up the rules on when we are allowed to talk”….

When really I’m trying to set a boundary, or explain how she makes me feel.  Or just Deescalate.

And I try to walk out when things are escalating, and not allow her to yell at me. but she will redirect, put words in my mouth, or blame me for things that are not related to the original topic.

There’s no winning or negotiating.  No Agreeing to disagree.  It’s her against me from her perspective, and she shows it in how she talks or acts. 

She avoids any and all blame or shame.
UNLESS our relationship is actually threatened.

When sh*t hits what I think is the final rock bottom… objects are broken.  The final insults are said…and we’re sleeping in different rooms, separating our things and agreeing on separation… (this has happened a few times, more than I can count now)

Hours or a day later she will start showing remorse and apologizing.  Doing nice things.  Actually genuinely apologizing (at least it appears that way).  But I now know, it’s all In desperate attempts to keep me from following through and divorcing her. 

And she grabs my heart every time. She knows how. 

I hate it so much.

The craziest and scariest part for me…

As she escalates conversations into arguments… holds grudges, and lingers in this anger for days…

if I stay calm. Or polite.  Or I try to show her love and understanding (validate) of HER feelings (regardless of mine…) she will continue with her negative mood.  And continue to sulk in a lingering frustration and anger. Act like “no one understands her feelings” (which there’s some
Truth in)

Basically if I don’t engage in the chaos with her.. she won’t calm down or forget…. She might be calm on the outside for a few hours or days… but it’s only a matter of time until the escalation comes.  She will act out, then if I don’t play along… she will continue to get angrier and angrier.  Subtlety escalate, act sarcastic, and ignore me more and more. 

As long as I remain calm and don’t engage in the delusions or conflict….she will get more and more cold with me…

This period can be hours or days.  There might be a few hours of “real calm” in there.  But underlying is a deep frustration in her.  And it’s visible.   The longer this period lasts, the stronger the “final outburst” usually is. 

And if I call her out on any behavior, it’s likely an instant explosion from her.  So I sit quiet and endure the cold treatment from her.

Until eventually she pokes me the right way and gets a negative reaction from me.  After I yell back, or I call her something bad, or slam a door, or I walk out the house pissed….after she just hurled insults at me for hours, maybe days or cold shouldered me and generally belittling my efforts in our marriage. 

Now she can blame shift the entire thing onto me… focus only on what I said or did…  and she will only allow the conversation to be focused on me. 

The most infuriating part…

Within literal minutes or a hours of a reaction from me, she’s flips (splits) into happy girl. Asking me About dinner plans tomorrow.  Pretending like nothing happened.  Acting “normal”.  Sometimes it’s actually in that very instant I react.  The negative split isn’t actually over yet though.  The “happy” facade she wears is fake and a control tactic. 

This is where I feel gaslit.  And it’s so hard for me to speak or be calm. 

Like NOW you are happy?  After you just pushed me and insulted me and hurt my feelings for all that time???  What the actual F*kkk was all that!??

During this period right after, is when she will typically leave the house to “do things for her” or impulsively order things “she needs” to have.  Having things is cool and I support that.  And She won’t spend on really Expensive stuff (sometimes). 

But she’ll buy a lot of little things in a period of like 1-3 days right after an episode.  Nails, hair, eat out alone, random house stuff.  Rugs, decorations.  Candles.   She has Impulsively plan / book a short weekend vacation without talking to me about it first.  (And of course if I have anything to say about the planned trip, I’m “not grateful or thankful” for her time and money she spent planning it)

And sarcastically say “oh it’s fine if YOU don’t want to go with ME. I’ll cancel it”.  (Again trying to put words/thoughts in my head I never said)

This is also usually her most delusional (not real thinking) moments.  She’s able to forget and blank out in her mind about everything she actually just put me through for the last 1,2…5 days. 

But I have to keep my cool now… continue to refuse talking about how I feel and her behaviors.  And the effects it has on me.  And (i believe) she can see how that behavior (the mood shift) is controlling me and making me feel terrible. 

And it forces me to do what she wants.  Or not talk about her behavior at all without a backlash or her redirecting the conversation back into something I did. 

I have to remain quiet about it.  Or risk enduring the verbal lashing or threats.

Because why should I be mad that she’s now a happy, nice and loving girl?  That’s what I was asking for the whole time… it would make me a terrible husband to be upset at my wife for now being happy… right?

So I remain quiet.  Continue on doing “normal” life with her. And allow her to slowly split back into loving me, and see me as a caring and generous guy for however long it lasts.  Knowing in my heart that her moods and perspective of me are always temporary and she will go cold again in a few days or maybe even later in the same day.

I’m hopeful one day she can get real help.  And make a lasting change for herself and the people around her. 




Other important info for those wondering:

We are both in individual therapy. 
Her mom and older sister are Diagnosed BPD.

My wife is NOT diagnosed BPD, but instead told (and believes) she suffers from anxiety, depression, possibly PTSD.   She is on an anti depressant, and 2 take as needed anti-anxiety meds.

My wife is not seeking another diagnosis of any kind. She does not believe she has BPD.  (BPD is a touchy subject in our house) She doesn’t think she acts like her mom or sister.  The therapist network we see do not diagnose people unless they are seeking diagnosis.  My therapist told me it typically causes more harm to diagnose someone if they are not actively seeking one.  Especially for BPD because of the negative labels society puts on it. 

My wife has actually endured terrible emotional abuse from her mom and other family as kid, (and even today).  Her last partner physically abused her terribly.  She has a lot of real trauma.

We started and stopped couples therapy.  It was very one sided, meaning that she would complain about me - but not listen to what I had to say.  Our therapist had to break apart sessions into “me and her” feelings sessions, but that still didn’t work.  I would get maybe 10 min into talking about my feelings and it she would be visibly frustrated, and ultimately redirect the conversation away from how I feel.  Our therapist told my wife in one session that she didn’t see her listening to my feelings in a mutual way that I listened to hers.  From that point forward my wife demonized this therapist and started calling our therapist “my best friend” or accusing me of talking to the therapist out of session.  We maybe made it 3 or 4 sessions after that was said.  Couples therapy generally created more chaos for us.  So we stopped.

ALSO:

Her original therapist recommended she goes to DBT therapy.  Which she attends.  I was so hopeful and full of joy when I heard of this.  However, She frequently cancels sessions.  Sometimes she’ll go a month without attending with a variety of excuses.  Those could be:  Doesn’t like the therapist, isn’t “actually doing DBT”,  she “doesn’t need” therapy anymore (during a happy split), or is too overwhelmed to talk about her feelings this week… this list goes on.

She has learned a few skills in DBT to manage her emotions and calm herself.  Mostly Mindfulness exercises.  I’m very proud she’s been able to do this.  But she still lacks insight and control of herself and emotions in a meaningful way.  In some ways these exercises and progress she’s made is followed by regression because she feels attacked or like something is wrong with her that needs to be fixed. 

I think those moments of regress are because of her fears of engulfment.  As she’s making progress I try to encourage, show her I’m proud of her.  Give her the best love I can. 

She tends to (unknowingly or willingly) Sabotage wonderful moments in our life or undermine her own progress toward living happily and with content.   

I’ll stop here, thanks to anyone who read all of this.  I sincerely appreciate you.  If you are also struggling with your loved one who is suffering,  just know you’re not alone.   If you, yourself have BPD, just know that the people around you love and care for you.  Even when you feel like and believe they don’t. 

[Tokiarch]

Hey everyone. Writing here today to kind of vent out some of my frustrations and share with others some of my experiences with my wife with BPD.  I’ve posted on here before months ago.  I’m still contemplating what the right decision is in my marriage. To stay or leave?

Splitting and the emotional dis regulation of an undiagnosed person with BPD is something out of a movie..

My wife can on some days say things like “my life is perfect here! I love our house, dogs, chickens.  I have everything here!!” She can Be so cheerful and wonderful, thoughtful partner and person to be around.

And I believe she truly believes those feelings and acts genuinely in those moments. 

But then comes the split to the dark….

It can be so hard at times to be on the receiving end of a split… I don’t always know what can cause it or when it’s coming. 

But when it does, my wife will act snarky, short, annoyed, or frustrated/angry… she will cold shoulder or act generally bothered by me for hours… sometimes days. She will talk short to me.  Side eye me.. And if called out on her behaviors she will redirect to something I did or escalate, bring up old disagreements.  Blame me for why she’s acting like that.  (To which I’ll listen and try to make changes in myself for her sake/happiness)

Her reasons for her behaviors vary hugely but are typically focused on something I did or didn’t do for her (or “our marriage” as she sees it).  Could be me not being available to hang out, dirty dishes/house, laundry, I didn’t go to bed with her at the same time, I spent too much time working.  Or if she wants me do something I’m either not available for, or simply want to do something else or have a different opinion on. (Like what color to paint the wall). Or if I say yes to something she asks me to do, but I say I can’t do it for a week or two.  Or if I’m unsure of when.  Uncertainty of anything is a big trigger for her.  The list is long and it goes on….

She’ll Threaten divorce if she’s not getting what she wants.  At the worst she’ll start talking about how “her life is nightmare” And “nothing matters”.  “I never do anything for her”. 

Start implying that her life is meaningless, or wants to die.  She’ll go full tantrum/ angry outburst or hysterical crying.  Hitting or throwing things. Hitting herself.  Sometimes she “goes blank” where I’ll try to to talk to her and she’s just staring into space.  Or gets instantly “SO TIRED” that she has to go lay down.  Sometimes she’ll leave the house unannounced for hours.  Block me on socials or my phone number as a means of control (to get me to worry, and ultimately Reach out)

Usually those behaviors or outbursts are during a conversation where she isn’t getting something she wants, or if she needs to take responsibility for something she did that made me feel bad.

She’ll do anything but take responsibility for what she said or did.  Every. Single. time. 

These outbursts are not quite daily, but anywhere from 3-7 days a week.  Some weeks I’m counting the days of peace.  I’m feel lucky to have a week of calm in my life right now.  Maybe every couple months is there a week of calm.

She refuses or is unable to empathize during these episodes, and she believes that “I hate her”.  She will claim i said or believe things that never happened or I don’t believe/didn’t say.  She will put words in my mouth… Usually focused on something negative toward her. Could be Her appearance, how she isn’t deserving of love / or other wants/needs.. 

Examples:

“I doesn’t deserve good things.”
“You hate me”
“You married a B**ch
“No one loves me”
“Everyone else has good things, NOT ME”
“I’m fat and ugly”
“My life is a nightmare”

And many more that are usually implying that I said or think terrible things about her.  But things I didn’t actually say, and don’t believe.

I’m often accused of being a narcissist and an abuser. Or she’ll tell me to “stop yelling or screaming”.   Typically as I’m calm, and she’s yelling and abusing me herself…

Also typical is to bring up any moment from our past, usually something I actually did or said that hurt her feelings.  Things I’ve apologized for many times over.  She’ll use these as ammo for her arguments… anything to avoid taking responsibility for her current (or very recent) behaviors, words or actions.

Everything is a constant redirection away from her, or she will project her own behaviors onto me. 

If I tell her she did or said something that makes me feel bad, she will redirect the conversation and make it about something else
I did to her last week, last year… or something “she thinks” I’ll do next week…..and then 10 minutes later when the conversation is confused and onto another topic (which she drove us to!!!). She will then start explaining how I make HER feel bad in the SAME way she’s making me feel… basically blaming/accusing me for doing what SHE ACTUALLY JUST did or said to ME. 

In these moments it’s so hard for me not get upset or angry, or to accuse her of living in a twisted reality.

To be blamed for something that in reality she just did, and there is proof (a voice or video recording) is maddening.  It sometimes drives me to a place where and I’ll say things I later regret and apologize for. 

Usually this is when I try to just walk out of the room/house… but that can usually trigger a big reaction from her. 

Sometimes she’ll be yelling or talking in an angry tone toward me… then immediately start talking in a cute and high pitched voice to our dogs or chickens in the same breath or a minute later.  Or she’ll be angry/cold with me, then play music and start singing and dancing in the other room.  Until I come in that room, she’ll immediately flip her attitude back to an angry one….

She knows how much that particular behavior insults me now, and she uses it to push me to yell back.

Sometimes I’ll ask her for a 5min or an hour break from The talk… but then she will accuse me of “controlling the conversations” and I “make up the rules on when we are allowed to talk”….

When really I’m trying to set a boundary, or explain how she makes me feel.  Or just Deescalate.

And I try to walk out when things are escalating, and not allow her to yell at me. but she will redirect, put words in my mouth, or blame me for things that are not related to the original topic.

There’s no winning or negotiating.  No Agreeing to disagree.  It’s her against me from her perspective, and she shows it in how she talks or acts. 

She avoids any and all blame or shame.
UNLESS our relationship is actually threatened.

When sh*t hits what I think is the final rock bottom… objects are broken.  The final insults are said…and we’re sleeping in different rooms, separating our things and agreeing on separation… (this has happened a few times, more than I can count now)

Hours or a day later she will start showing remorse and apologizing.  Doing nice things.  Actually genuinely apologizing (at least it appears that way).  But I now know, it’s all In desperate attempts to keep me from following through and divorcing her. 

And she grabs my heart every time. She knows how. 

I hate it so much.

The craziest and scariest part for me…

As she escalates conversations into arguments… holds grudges, and lingers in this anger for days…

if I stay calm. Or polite.  Or I try to show her love and understanding (validate) of HER feelings (regardless of mine…) she will continue with her negative mood.  And continue to sulk in a lingering frustration and anger. Act like “no one understands her feelings” (which there’s some
Truth in)

Basically if I don’t engage in the chaos with her.. she won’t calm down or forget…. She might be calm on the outside for a few hours or days… but it’s only a matter of time until the escalation comes.  She will act out, then if I don’t play along… she will continue to get angrier and angrier.  Subtlety escalate, act sarcastic, and ignore me more and more. 

As long as I remain calm and don’t engage in the delusions or conflict….she will get more and more cold with me…

This period can be hours or days.  There might be a few hours of “real calm” in there.  But underlying is a deep frustration in her.  And it’s visible.   The longer this period lasts, the stronger the “final outburst” usually is. 

And if I call her out on any behavior, it’s likely an instant explosion from her.  So I sit quiet and endure the cold treatment from her.

Until eventually she pokes me the right way and gets a negative reaction from me.  After I yell back, or I call her something bad, or slam a door, or I walk out the house pissed….after she just hurled insults at me for hours, maybe days or cold shouldered me and generally belittling my efforts in our marriage. 

Now she can blame shift the entire thing onto me… focus only on what I said or did…  and she will only allow the conversation to be focused on me. 

The most infuriating part…

Within literal minutes or a hours of a reaction from me, she’s flips (splits) into happy girl. Asking me About dinner plans tomorrow.  Pretending like nothing happened.  Acting “normal”.  Sometimes it’s actually in that very instant I react.  The negative split isn’t actually over yet though.  The “happy” facade she wears is fake and a control tactic. 

This is where I feel gaslit.  And it’s so hard for me to speak or be calm. 

Like NOW you are happy?  After you just pushed me and insulted me and hurt my feelings for all that time???  What the actual F*kkk was all that!??

During this period right after, is when she will typically leave the house to “do things for her” or impulsively order things “she needs” to have.  Having things is cool and I support that.  And She won’t spend on really Expensive stuff (sometimes). 

But she’ll buy a lot of little things in a period of like 1-3 days right after an episode.  Nails, hair, eat out alone, random house stuff.  Rugs, decorations.  Candles.   She has Impulsively plan / book a short weekend vacation without talking to me about it first.  (And of course if I have anything to say about the planned trip, I’m “not grateful or thankful” for her time and money she spent planning it)

And sarcastically say “oh it’s fine if YOU don’t want to go with ME. I’ll cancel it”.  (Again trying to put words/thoughts in my head I never said)

This is also usually her most delusional (not real thinking) moments.  She’s able to forget and blank out in her mind about everything she actually just put me through for the last 1,2…5 days. 

But I have to keep my cool now… continue to refuse talking about how I feel and her behaviors.  And the effects it has on me.  And (i believe) she can see how that behavior (the mood shift) is controlling me and making me feel terrible. 

And it forces me to do what she wants.  Or not talk about her behavior at all without a backlash or her redirecting the conversation back into something I did. 

I have to remain quiet about it.  Or risk enduring the verbal lashing or threats.

Because why should I be mad that she’s now a happy, nice and loving girl?  That’s what I was asking for the whole time… it would make me a terrible husband to be upset at my wife for now being happy… right?

So I remain quiet.  Continue on doing “normal” life with her. And allow her to slowly split back into loving me, and see me as a caring and generous guy for however long it lasts.  Knowing in my heart that her moods and perspective of me are always temporary and she will go cold again in a few days or maybe even later in the same day.

I’m hopeful one day she can get real help.  And make a lasting change for herself and the people around her. 




Other important info for those wondering:

We are both in individual therapy. 
Her mom and older sister are Diagnosed BPD.

My wife is NOT diagnosed BPD, but instead told (and believes) she suffers from anxiety, depression, possibly PTSD.   She is on an anti depressant, and 2 take as needed anti-anxiety meds.

My wife is not seeking another diagnosis of any kind. She does not believe she has BPD.  (BPD is a touchy subject in our house) She doesn’t think she acts like her mom or sister.  The therapist network we see do not diagnose people unless they are seeking diagnosis.  My therapist told me it typically causes more harm to diagnose someone if they are not actively seeking one.  Especially for BPD because of the negative labels society puts on it. 

My wife has actually endured terrible emotional abuse from her mom and other family as kid, (and even today).  Her last partner physically abused her terribly.  She has a lot of real trauma.

We started and stopped couples therapy.  It was very one sided, meaning that she would complain about me - but not listen to what I had to say.  Our therapist had to break apart sessions into “me and her” feelings sessions, but that still didn’t work.  I would get maybe 10 min into talking about my feelings and it she would be visibly frustrated, and ultimately redirect the conversation away from how I feel.  Our therapist told my wife in one session that she didn’t see her listening to my feelings in a mutual way that I listened to hers.  From that point forward my wife demonized this therapist and started calling our therapist “my best friend” or accusing me of talking to the therapist out of session.  We maybe made it 3 or 4 sessions after that was said.  Couples therapy generally created more chaos for us.  So we stopped.

ALSO:

Her original therapist recommended she goes to DBT therapy.  Which she attends.  I was so hopeful and full of joy when I heard of this.  However, She frequently cancels sessions.  Sometimes she’ll go a month without attending with a variety of excuses.  Those could be:  Doesn’t like the therapist, isn’t “actually doing DBT”,  she “doesn’t need” therapy anymore (during a happy split), or is too overwhelmed to talk about her feelings this week… this list goes on.

She has learned a few skills in DBT to manage her emotions and calm herself.  Mostly Mindfulness exercises.  I’m very proud she’s been able to do this.  But she still lacks insight and control of herself and emotions in a meaningful way.  In some ways these exercises and progress she’s made is followed by regression because she feels attacked or like something is wrong with her that needs to be fixed. 

I think those moments of regress are because of her fears of engulfment.  As she’s making progress I try to encourage, show her I’m proud of her.  Give her the best love I can. 

She tends to (unknowingly or willingly) Sabotage wonderful moments in our life or undermine her own progress toward living happily and with content.   

I’ll stop here, thanks to anyone who read all of this.  I sincerely appreciate you.  If you are also struggling with your loved one who is suffering,  just know you’re not alone.   If you, yourself have BPD, just know that the people around you love and care for you.  Even when you feel like and believe they don’t. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[LittleRedBarn]

Hi Tokiarch

I'm new here but wanted to reach out because a lot of what you describe resonates for me, in my relationship with my BPD husband (diagnosed 12 months ago). I'm also pondering the 'stay or leave' question right now, too.

Sometimes I’ll ask her for a 5min or an hour break from The talk… but then she will accuse me of “controlling the conversations” and I “make up the rules on when we are allowed to talk”….

This, in particular, so just s-o-o-o-o familiar! But then my husband's therapist told him that when he gets that feeling in the back of his neck (anger), he needs to leave the room and calm himself down before talking to me again, and since then he has really tried to do that (without much success, admittedly, but at least I can see he is trying).

I'm glad your wife has been doing a DBT course, and that you can see the skills are helping her. Have you considered doing a DBT course yourself, specifically for family members? There are quite a few out there, some of them online, and not too expensive.

I am very slowly starting to see to that I really cannot ever hope that my husband will change - the only thing I can do is to change myself. That means recognizing that I have inadvertently been contributing to the dynamic between us, by avoiding conflict, reassuring rather than validating, negating my own thoughts and feelings. In short, I have  become co-dependent and am actively contributing to the problems in the relationship on a daily basis. Only when I have started to change my own behavior will I see what the relationship is really like, and make a decision about whether to stay or leave. I have spent too long blaming him for his bad behavior (and it really is *BAD*, just as you describe here). I need to start by working on myself.

Perhaps I can gently reflect back to you that most of this post is about your wife's behavior rather than yours. My heart goes out to you, because I know exactly what it feels like to be on the receiving end of all this. But I really do believe that the only person we can change is ourselves. We have to start with taking a long, hard look at ourselves.

[Tokiarch]

Hey I really appreciate the reply! Really good advice, thank you.

I haven’t considered yet going to DBT sessions myself yet - but it’s not out of possibilities.  Our health insurance may require that I switch therapists soon so it might be a good opportunity.  I am a bit bummed because I’ve been with my current therapist a few years now and I like her.  We do discuss DBT strategies though, like mindfulness techniques.  She’s not a trained DBT therapist, but she understands the principles. 

Becoming co dependent, is something I’m recently understanding what that really means and how I’m affected.  Realizing that I’m sacrificing so much, and becoming dependent on her for approval (that never actually comes) is painful.  Especially when it’s a one sided deal.   She can be all take with no give, instead of a give-take dynamic.  Yet be accusing me of being the taker…. It’s very bizarre from the outside looking in because the reality can be sometimes twisted from my BPD wife’s perspective. 

That part is frustrating for me.

I’ve always been a really independent, and emotionally confident and happy person my whole life.  Until recent year or so where I find myself doubting my actions or beliefs.  Wondering if it’s what my wife would want.  Codependency is painful. 

I do find myself in my own mind self reflecting.  Or in therapy or with friends.   I always try to after an agreement or disagreement ask myself,

“How could I have said that so she understands better.  Could I have said it nicer, or using better words?”

Or

“How could I understand what my wife is feeling better? Is there something I missed?”

“Could I have don’t something different?”

These types of questions. 

I sometimes am overly ashamed of things if I do something wrong and tend to want to make it right. Find amends.  I’m quick to apologize and right things if if did or said something wrong.  Try to fix it, or do something to show that I’m sorry. 

Which from what I understand is actually more aligned with an NPD trait.  These are things I talk about with my therapist.  It’s possible I’m struggling with NPD, but my therapist tells me it’s unlikely. 

I know this entire post is mostly a vent session about my wife’s behavior.  Sometimes I find it helps me to write down all this stuff and just talk about it with others… In my relationship I don’t often get to discuss my wife’s behaviors.  The finger is constantly pointed at me. It’s rare that my wife will talk about things she’s done or said that hurt me.  But can happily talk about what I’ve done for hours or days. 

Her behaviors are sometimes so belligerent or erratic I’m embarrassed to tell anyone. 

I’ve discussed a lot of it with my family (parents / sister) and friends.  But most of them are horrified to hear what I’m going through.  It does stress them out to hear about it.

So I tend to not talk about these issues with people close to me.   Which I’m aware is avoidant, but it does really suck to watch people
I love and care about be hurt or frustrated with my wife.  It makes me feel judged like I’m making a bad decision to even be with this women.   That part really sucks. 

My therapist tells me it’s really bad that’s happening because my wife can be subconsciously aware of this and continue to pull me from my loved ones.

That part terrifies the absolute sh*t out of me.

So I find myself online talking to strangers, or with my therapist mostly about the events that unfold every week.

I do try to focus on my own contributions to the conflicts.  Both in my alone time, with my wife, or in therapy.  It helps to hear it again from another person, because ultimately it’s the only thing in my control.   So thank you. 

I think the absolute hardest part for me in being in a relationship with my BPD is when I’m trying to validate/take responsibility for something I did that upset her.  (Sometimes even if it’s not real and she imagined it)…

She will often deny my confession or apology.  Claim it is fake.  Or redirect the conversation onto something else I did, requiring that I take on more blame, and more blame. 

All the while she gets to avoid, avoid, avoid talking about her own behaviors using any tactic she can possibly come up with in that moment. 

Ultimately that’s what I’ve realized caused the codependency, because it puts me in a place of desperation for her approval and validation of me just being me or having separate opinions or thoughts from hers.  And I know that true “relating” I yearn for from her will never come. 

This is the real pain of being with a BPD partner.  We must accept that they will struggle to communicate and interpret their own feelings and others.

[LittleRedBarn]

Hey, thanks for replying!

I can really hear the pain in everything you say here, and can totally relate to it all. It feels very similar to my experience.

I think there is a lot of grieving to be done when we realize that we will probably never have the truly equal, intimate relationship that we might have hoped for when we first set out on the marriage. I'm working on trying to focus on the good things in the relationship, to see whether there are enough positives there to counteract all the negativity. I'm very much at a crossroads. I want to work on the changes that I know I need to make in myself before I make any leave/stay decisions though.

How long have you been married? Are there any children involved? (Sorry if I have missed that information from a previous post)

The DBT family skills training that I did was a course, rather than therapy. It was a 12-week online program and only cost $350 but I found it incredibly helpful. I even managed to persuade my BPD husband to do the course with me, although I'm not sure how much of it he really took on board. He can be quite anti-DBT because he was first exposed to it when he was committed to a psych ward and he didn't want to be there, so it wasn't a choice. There are also free courses run by NEABPD for family members but they have a long waiting list.

I'm glad you have been able to talk about your wife's behavior with family and friends, and I totally get why it is hard to carry on doing so. It also makes sense that venting here is a way of alleviating some of the helplessness and despair - I can definitely relate to that.

I made different choices and concealed my husband's behavior totally from everyone I knew. He only ever verbally abused me behind closed doors and I pretended to myself that it wasn't a big deal. I remember the first time he yelled at me in the car and my immediate thought was that I could never allow my two adult sons from my previous marriage to travel with us in a car, because they would be so shocked that their mom was being treated like that. I look back now and I find it hard to get my head round why I would think it was so important to protect my husband from the consequences of his behavior, and that I was prepared to damage my relationship with my sons as a result. That was fourteen years ago and they have still never been in a car with him.

Fast-forward to last year and the result was that I ended up totally isolated. I became estranged from most of my family, lost all my friends and have only superficial contact with my sons. I came to really believe all the bad things my husband said about me because he said them over, and over, and over, and I didn't have anyone else to provide context or help me to see that he was wrong.

I think this might be why your therapist is worried when you tell her that you no longer feel able to talk to friends and family about your wife's behavior.

I wrote a list recently of all the things that my husband used to say to me, and that I came to believe about myself. What I can now see is that a huge proportion of the accusations describe him, not me. Apparently, it's called "projective identification". The person with BPD accuses the non-BPD person of all the things that the BPD person does, and because they are so insistent and convincing, and because our self-esteem is so worn down, we start to believe that we really are as bad as they say we are.

I'll post my list below, to see if anything resonates for you!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You never take responsibility.

You can’t take criticism.

You are not self-critical enough.

You make everything about you.

You are not to be trusted.

You are a born liar.

You’re a coward.

You have no empathy.

You don’t care about my feelings.

You’re addicted to blame.

You think bad things about me all the time.

If I don’t criticize you, how will you ever change?

You stole all my money. I gave it to us freely and you stole it.

You forced me to live in a place that I hate.

Your job is to show me what a good man I am.

You never give me compliments.

The birthday presents you give me are thoughtless and disappointing.

If you sleep better than me it’s because you have no self-awareness and project all your problems on others.

I’m always walking on eggshells with you.

You are always trying to control me.

You are a selfish, manipulative bitch.

I was joking!

You are over-sensitive/have no sense of humor.

I’ve never hit you.

I am 100% trustworthy.

Who would you trust? You, or me?

I don’t do blame.

The relationship is littered with broken promises.

If you won’t kill me, I’ll have to kill myself.

[re_search1901]

Just wanted to share that I could've written the same exact post as to my experience. I was not married though (about to be engaged before it blew up). I've seen a phrase used around here for a while, which is "if somebody threatens something, they are probably eventually going to do it" or something along those lines.

I want to offer some advice to both of you at this point. It isn't comforting, but i want to suggest that both of you start documenting these behaviors and keep records of everything. Try to get audio recordings or video of the outbursts and abuse that you endure. It's maddening to be abused and be accused of being the abuser I know.

I am suggesting this because my experience is so similar to yours and it ended very poorly. My ex-girlfriend split on me after a week long trip to Utah and Sedona (during which she told her family we were engaged, before i had the chance to ask her father for permission to marry her). She proceeded to file a protective order and accused me of domestic violence. She had endlessly begged me to never abandon her and when she had split in the past told me to "keep trying to get back with her because she would snap out of it eventually". When I tried to meet up with her to talk, she refused and had me arrested for stalking.

At the protective order hearing, she lied and said she had bruises throughout the relationship and that I would degrade her till she was at her lowest lows. Complete opposite of what happened. She was the one in fact who and hit me and abused me many times. This has cost me roughly $20k so far and 2 days in jail.

Regardless of what you decide to do with your relationship, you need to protect your self. 

[jaded7]

As others have said, oh boy does this resonate. I can absolutely feel the confusion and frustration here. So many things I have experience that are the very same.

I noted you said "And if I call her out on any behavior, it’s likely an instant explosion from her.  So I sit quiet and endure the cold treatment from her." That was my exact experience, filled with gaslighting and lying- that never happened, it was a joke- and/or letting me know of all the things I've done wrong, or how her behavior was my fault.

I could go down a list here!

Others responses have mentioned many other classic behaviors.

It's confusing, isn't it? I remember saying to my ex several times how confused by her I was. She loves me, but doesn't return my calls or texts for days? She demands I keep a calendar for the summer because "I ruined and entire summer by cancelling plans" (I didn't. I didn't cancel one single event), yet we make a calendar for the next summer and she then cancells events on OUR shared calendar at the last second, or 'forgetting' about them. She calls a 'timeout' in an argument, to which I agree with a loving heart and desire to keep my word and support the relationship, then she immediately starts back in on me. She eviscerates my for my "shi**y birthday gift" and "putting no effort or planning into her birthday", and she completely forgot my birthday 5 weeks earlier, while I was watching housing her dog and taking care of it for 3 weeks for free (saving her $700), while she travelled and let me know she "looked up her ex-bf's address and he was going to be only .25 miles away....maybe she'll visit him." While she does nothing at all for my birthday before she left, and forgot it on the day!

The confusion, the confusion.

I can sense from your writing that you have a good heart and simply don't know what to do with all this.

[jaded7]

I wrote a list recently of all the things that my husband used to say to me, and that I came to believe about myself. What I can now see is that a huge proportion of the accusations describe him, not me. Apparently, it's called "projective identification". The person with BPD accuses the non-BPD person of all the things that the BPD person does, and because they are so insistent and convincing, and because our self-esteem is so worn down, we start to believe that we really are as bad as they say we are.

I'll post my list below, to see if anything resonates for you!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You never take responsibility.

You can’t take criticism.

You are not self-critical enough.

You make everything about you.

You are not to be trusted.

You are a born liar.

You’re a coward.

You have no empathy.

You don’t care about my feelings.

You’re addicted to blame.

You think bad things about me all the time.

If I don’t criticize you, how will you ever change?

You stole all my money. I gave it to us freely and you stole it.

You forced me to live in a place that I hate.

Your job is to show me what a good man I am.

You never give me compliments.

The birthday presents you give me are thoughtless and disappointing.

If you sleep better than me it’s because you have no self-awareness and project all your problems on others.

I’m always walking on eggshells with you.

You are always trying to control me.

You are a selfish, manipulative bitch.

I was joking!

You are over-sensitive/have no sense of humor.

I’ve never hit you.

I am 100% trustworthy.

Who would you trust? You, or me?

I don’t do blame.

The relationship is littered with broken promises.

If you won’t kill me, I’ll have to kill myself.

A very important part of recovering, I believe, is finding ourselves again......when we are told these things over and over, we tend to believe them, which are their voices internalized. My therapist called it 'introjection' which is the opposite of projection (I think).

Many things on your list here I experienced myself.

[LittleRedBarn]

I am suggesting this because my experience is so similar to yours and it ended very poorly. My ex-girlfriend split on me after a week long trip to Utah and Sedona (during which she told her family we were engaged, before i had the chance to ask her father for permission to marry her). She proceeded to file a protective order and accused me of domestic violence. She had endlessly begged me to never abandon her and when she had split in the past told me to "keep trying to get back with her because she would snap out of it eventually". When I tried to meet up with her to talk, she refused and had me arrested for stalking.

At the protective order hearing, she lied and said she had bruises throughout the relationship and that I would degrade her till she was at her lowest lows. Complete opposite of what happened. She was the one in fact who and hit me and abused me many times. This has cost me roughly $20k so far and 2 days in jail.

Regardless of what you decide to do with your relationship, you need to protect your self.

In my case, the courts brought a domestic violence protective order against me in July 2023 and I have not been able to return to my own home since then. I am also facing a felony conviction.

I believe that the very best way we non-BPD's can protect ourselves is to understand our own vulnerabilities. I can see now that my behavior over a ten-year relationship has made my BPD husband's condition worse. I'm talking about conflict avoidance, not expressing what I'm thinking and feeling, not owning my own wants and needs, and having literally no boundaries.

There is a great quote in the 'Walking on Eggshells' book:
"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent"  - Eleanor Roosevelt

The only way we can work on our relationships is by working on ourselves.