Re: Well looks like divorce is finally happening Pt. 3

[mikejones75093]

This makes no sense to me either. Yes, it's understandable you are angry, frustrated.

Saying something about you that isn't true doesn't make it true. You have the other kids. How you parent them will speak for itself. It is hard to make a case for you being violent if there isn't any- and also no evidence. This may be something to bring to a lawyer- false accusations have consequences too.

Not only is there no evidence, I have video footage of what happened.  I came to terms that I was going to have to get my daughter out of my house.  She is toxic to me and all the other kids.  All the police and cps reports came from her.  None of the others.  Her mother tells her I'm a liar and manupulator and even worse.  But nobody will listen.   I feel like I'm in a bad movie.
I think your D will discover the consequences of her own behavior and she's with her mother now. This is out of your hands. (unless there's other legal action that could be taken).

Even if you took legal action to get her back or to have her visit you, if she doesn't want to, you can't change her mind. Your D is too young to be completely self determined but also has her own wishes based on her limited point of view at this age. If she really doesn't want to live with you and you forced her too, that would not go well either. I think she is going to have to have her own experiences with her BPD mother to figure things out.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother has said all kinds of things about me that aren't true and yes, it's shocking and hurtful when other people seem to believe it. Eventually I found that truth prevails- how long it takes but eventually, in interactions with her, some of her behaviors became evident.

Other than the false information about you, it seems that things are working the way they need to be. If the 11 year old is toxic, and it's affecting her siblings, then it's good she's not there with them. This may feel unatural to you, she is your D - but she also wanted to be with her mother, so it's how they wanted it.

Unless there are legal routes to go for this, all you can do is be your best self and best parent to the other two kids. Your D will have her own experiences with her mother. Even if the two of you stayed married, she'd have her own experiences with her mother. By her age, the relationship is more of a factor between two people, not small child and parent,  and will evolve according to their personalities. Your D still needs a parent but she no longer needs a parent to feed her, dress her and take care of her in these ways. Your D made her choices and she will see how this works out for her. You have the opportunity to provide a safe space for you and the other two kids. One day, your D may decide to join you but you will have rules and boundaries for all the childrens' behaviors that she would have to comply with.

[mikejones75093]

My BPD mother has said all kinds of things about me that aren't true and yes, it's shocking and hurtful when other people seem to believe it. Eventually I found that truth prevails- how long it takes but eventually, in interactions with her, some of her behaviors became evident.

Other than the false information about you, it seems that things are working the way they need to be. If the 11 year old is toxic, and it's affecting her siblings, then it's good she's not there with them. This may feel unatural to you, she is your D - but she also wanted to be with her mother, so it's how they wanted it.

Unless there are legal routes to go for this, all you can do is be your best self and best parent to the other two kids. Your D will have her own experiences with her mother. Even if the two of you stayed married, she'd have her own experiences with her mother. By her age, the relationship is more of a factor between two people, not small child and parent,  and will evolve according to their personalities. Your D still needs a parent but she no longer needs a parent to feed her, dress her and take care of her in these ways. Your D made her choices and she will see how this works out for her. You have the opportunity to provide a safe space for you and the other two kids. One day, your D may decide to join you but you will have rules and boundaries for all the childrens' behaviors that she would have to comply with.

I had basically come to terms with she needs to go live with her and figure out who she really is.  I'm upset I have a protective order filed against me saying I'm violent.  It's civil not criminal but I have never been violent in my entire life with anyone.  Don't know how the courts can't see she harnesses me and coaches my daughter.  I'm so violent he made her turn the rest of the kids over to me and gave me make up time with them.  I don't get it

[ForeverDad]

As difficult as it is now, you need to deal with your life as it is now, not what is fair or if the whole truth had been considered.

One thing I noticed in my own life is that my court took my proofs as slightly less compelling than what my child's school testified to.  There were two main items.  One was that my ex had nearly all the attendance tardies recording the prior school year.  That seems minor, right?  But it did matter.  The other was that teachers testified that at his 5th grade overnight to a school-organized overnight camp (which started on my time) his mother came and made a huge scene demanding it was her time and she wanted her kid now.

Some of that you don't have a voice in now, but be on the watch for indicators in D's attendance, school work, etc that indicates D is not prospering with Dad out of her life.  You never know, there may be something actionable that develops.

Another approach is to get your daughter into counseling.  (You want  her to be in contact with her school counselors for sure, as that would be great but might be of limited benefit.  It all depends whether she would open up to counselors.)

Meanwhile, don't give up, you still have the younger children with you and they need you too.  Another worry is that with ex's "win" she may start working to undermine your relationship with the other kids.

It's really strange for a court to essentially separate the children with out good reason.  And you don't want that either.

[mikejones75093]

As difficult as it is now, you need to deal with your life as it is now, not what is fair or if the whole truth had been considered.

One thing I noticed in my own life is that my court took my proofs as slightly less compelling than what my child's school testified to.  There were two main items.  One was that my ex had nearly all the attendance tardies recording the prior school year.  That seems minor, right?  But it did matter.  The other was that teachers testified that at his 5th grade overnight to a school-organized overnight camp (which started on my time) his mother came and made a huge scene demanding it was her time and she wanted her kid now.

Some of that you don't have a voice in now, but be on the watch for indicators in D's attendance, school work, etc that indicates D is not prospering with Dad out of her life.  You never know, there may be something actionable that develops.

Another approach is to get your daughter into counseling.  (You want  her to be in contact with her school counselors for sure, as that would be great but might be of limited benefit.  It all depends whether she would open up to counselors.)

Meanwhile, don't give up, you still have the younger children with you and they need you too.  Another worry is that with ex's "win" she may start working to undermine your relationship with the other kids.

It's really strange for a court to essentially separate the children with out good reason.  And you don't want that either.

I realize I have to live for now and I am.  My other kids haven't been brainwashed yet and I have them most of the time.  CPS interviewed everyone at the school, and they all said my kids are living their best life, no abuse no concern.  The judge only listened to what my D testified to on the stand.

Apparently now my daughter's arm is broken.  Took her to an orthopedist and got a cast put on .  Er last week said everything including x rays negative.  I did not break her arm.  I have video evidence of everything.  This is scary. I've never been violent towards anyone.  She wants me in jail and sole custody of the kids. 

I'm lost.  I have no clue how to handle this. I don't think she will ever stop.

[ForeverDad]

Although judges are granted discretion in their decisions, could you have sought a reconsideration or an appeal?  What did your lawyer say?  There is a time frame that must be met for filing and often those are handled by a lawyer specializing in such types of cases.

Sadly, we do have some parents, fortunately not many, who faced vexatious litigants.  Does your lawyer believe the evidence from the ER will also serve to exonerate you?

You might be dealing with some variation of Factitious Disorder (formerly known as Munchausen syndrome / by proxy)?

[mikejones75093]

Although judges are granted discretion in their decisions, could you have sought a reconsideration or an appeal?  What did your lawyer say?  There is a time frame that must be met for filing and often those are handled by a lawyer specializing in such types of cases.

Sadly, we do have some parents, fortunately not many, who faced vexatious litigants.  Does your lawyer believe the evidence from the ER will also serve to exonerate you?

You might be dealing with some variation of Factitious Disorder (formerly known as Munchausen syndrome / by proxy)?

It all happened so recent.  Meet with attorney this week to go over that.  I did not break her arm.  If her arm is really broken I'm concerned maybe her mom did it?  My D is completely brainwashed.  They are besties not mom and D.  Eventually the honeymoon will end and my ex wife will never change.  The rage will come out and my D will be the target.  After this nobody wants to be around my D.  She's on an island alone by herself now.  There is a reason my ex has no family or friends in her life.  One day my young D will realize what she did and want to see everyone.  She's isolated now.

[mikejones75093]

Although judges are granted discretion in their decisions, could you have sought a reconsideration or an appeal?  What did your lawyer say?  There is a time frame that must be met for filing and often those are handled by a lawyer specializing in such types of cases.

Sadly, we do have some parents, fortunately not many, who faced vexatious litigants.  Does your lawyer believe the evidence from the ER will also serve to exonerate you?

You might be dealing with some variation of Factitious Disorder (formerly known as Munchausen syndrome / by proxy)?

As far as alienation and vexatious litigation, has anyone around here has success defending that and getting the other parent to stop?  I feel like I'm in a bad movie where everyone thinks she's a concerned mother and good person

[ForeverDad]

If CPS or other children's agency has already investigated, ask your lawyer whether to report this to them.  State that you believe your child needs therapeutic intervention of some sort.  And not mom's choice of a counselor or therapist since she would only agree to someone gullible or easily biased.

Mom has already "divide and conquer" one child and unlikely to stop with one in trying to pose as you being worse than her.  At this point it may be that it would be best to get this arm cast reviewed, though expect mom to claim that if it wasn't really broken then it surely was cracked or bruised.

It may take more claimed incidents like this for agencies to sit up and determine something merits being "actionable".

When I first separated, my spouse got temp custody, me not mentioned.  She shopped our 3yo to child counselors "play therapy" claiming I was the scary one.  The agency viewed the temp order as locking me out of any input even though I had long alternate weekends with him.  Yet she got the agency to send me a form letter - twice - that I was a danger to the child or others.  They only cut corners and allowed me some contact at their daycare a year later after my Custody Evaluator, a child psychologist, called them.

My court limited appeals to only 3-4 weeks after a court decision so you're under a time constraint.

[mikejones75093]

If CPS or other children's agency has already investigated, ask your lawyer whether to report this to them.  State that you believe your child needs therapeutic intervention of some sort.  And not mom's choice of a counselor or therapist since she would only agree to someone gullible or easily biased.

Mom has already "divide and conquer" one child and unlikely to stop with one in trying to pose as you being worse than her.  At this point it may be that it would be best to get this arm cast reviewed, though expect mom to claim that if it wasn't really broken then it surely was cracked or bruised.

It may take more claimed incidents like this for agencies to sit up and determine something merits being "actionable".

When I first separated, my spouse got temp custody, me not mentioned.  She shopped our 3yo to child counselors "play therapy" claiming I was the scary one.  The agency viewed the temp order as locking me out of any input even though I had long alternate weekends with him.  Yet she got the agency to send me a form letter - twice - that I was a danger to the child or others.  They only cut corners and allowed me some contact at their daycare a year later after my Custody Evaluator, a child psychologist, called them.

My court limited appeals to only 3-4 weeks after a court decision so you're under a time constraint.

I'm working on all of that.  Medical records.  Counseling.  All of it, and working on an appeal.