pwBPD sending texts with separation agreements to complete.

[campbembpd]

I feel like I'm getting frequent flyer miles over the past couple of days 

Continuing saga but there hasn't been much contact except for a few texts saying she wants me out, at a hotel (another post). Now she's escalating and sent me a form to complete for a separation from a lawyer. She says she's contacted a lawyer. Except the link she sent me for the form to complete is a lawyer several states away. If I was a betting man I would bet she hasn't actually talked to anyone but googled to find a separation agreement to scare me. In our state (FL) there is no such thing as legal separation...

Just tired of this. Do I just ignore the barrage of texts and these threats. She is trying to get a rise out of me or get me to re-engage. I feel like it's baiting me into texting or calling her and begging her to forgive me so I'll do/take whatever she wants to spew out. But not playing that game anymore... this is getting hard

Someone else wrote here for a boundary that when his wife threatens divorce (maybe separation fits here) they said their response is something like "If you want to file for divorce, hire an attorney and file. From that point on, you and can talk to each other through our attorneys. Until I receive the divorce papers, we are not talking about this. If you continue to bring this up I am leaving the room or not responding to texts"

Seems harsh but what say you all?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

By definition, divorce does not require cooperation between the parties. The whole point is that two spouses cannot cooperate enough to stay married. Requiring cooperation to separate/divorce doesn't make sense and is not factual.

She is free to pursue separation and divorce, and can do that whether you want it or not. It does not require your cooperation or participation.

Similarly, you could divorce her even if she disagreed.

This is the year 2024 in the USA; for better or for worse, it only takes one spouse to make a divorce happen.

The bigger question is: what do you want?

Do you want to participate in helping her to separate?
Do you want a divorce?

You're here because you suspect she has BPD, which is a seriously impairing mental illness.

You don't have to hitch your decisions behind her feelings and whims.

Figure out what you want and move forward with that. She doesn't get to set the tone of leadership in your half of the relationship unless you choose to react to her that way.

Your mindset could be: "Even though I don't want a divorce, won't participate in making it happen, and would be deeply saddened, I accept that I can't control what you want or do."

But again, the biggest question isn't the correct words to use, but you getting real with yourself about what you choose for your life.

[campbembpd]

Thanks for the thoughtful and quick response Kells76.

I don't know what I want yet long term. I have had a consultation with an attorney to be prepared.

My intention has been for me to work through my 'stuff' of being a caretaker and set firm boundaries and create a life for myself. I was waiting for my d17 to graduate high school before setting these firm boundaries of not engaging or just 'taking it' while she is dysregulated. This is just starting so I expected some bad escalation.

She is dysregulated right now so at the moment she hates me and she wants a divorce/separation. She's said multiple times her intention of a separation is so that I will finally miss her and will stop doing 'this' to her.

She's threatened divorce/separation 50+ times, can't even count hard to take seriously. Told me she wants me out, etc. But when she's back to base and out of her dysregulation there's none of that, of course. A couple days ago it was rainbows and unicorns with us. So I don't think she really wants a separation. She wants me to react and get pulled into her drama.

In any case - I'm on the fence if I would entertain a separation at all. Since her intent is so I finally stop treating her so terribly and make her so angry and there is no problem with her, nothing would be 'fixed'. There is something in the back of my brain, I think it's the caretaking behavior in me that hopes if we separated maybe she would finally get the help she needs. But right now I'm leaning towards divorce vs separation. Also, logistically we absolutely cannot afford 2 households where we are. (see other thread). It's almost nonsensical she is proposing it. But is it. When I talk to here or read her texts I see her as a hurt but very mentally ill person who isn't able to process things properly.

I just finished reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist audio book for the 10th time probably. At the end there's a section on staying or going that sticks with me...

"when you entered the relationship originally, you had the expectation that both of you were equally mentally and emotionally mature enough to take care of each other. When you confronted the fact that your partner has BPD and you became the caretaker, you were trying to salvage the relationship. Now the question is whether you want to continue lifelong care for a mentally ill person"

[Exile]

First, I am stunned at how many people here have experiences that are word for word identical to my own. I could have written most of the posts on this board.

My wife has been threatening divorce several times a month for 20 years. The way she talks about it indicates she doesn't really have a clear idea or plan. She's been told by counselors that she doesn't need my permission for a divorce. She continues to bemoan my unwillingness to "give her" a divorce. She's plugged my email address into lawyers websites before so I get alerts about meetings she never attends. She says she's calling a lawyer today, but the consult fee is $30. Can we afford that? No? Ok we're getting divorced when you get paid again. Yesterday she was definitely calling a lawyer but now she'll wait until August. I'm kind of over it. It still hurts every time she says it but it doesn't make me break down any more. At least not as often. I've had to explain to my kids that mom makes a lot of threats but pay attention to what she actually does. She basically never follows through on any of them. I can say with certainty that I know exactly how you feel.

[CC43]

Indeed it seems she's trying to get a rise out of you and control you.  Maybe you "grey rock" her, either by not responding, or by responding very slowly and replying in as neutral a tone as possible.  With BPD, there's probably no response that would satisfy her when she's riled up--arguments become heated, emotional and illogical, making it impossible to find a solution or compromise.  So maybe you text, "OK."  If that doesn't quiet her for the time being, and she pesters you to fill out the form, maybe you say, that looks like something you can fill out with your lawyer.  If you were to fill out the form, she might twist things around and accuse you of being the one seeking a separation--making YOU the person who is trying to ruin HER.

When facing an argument with someone who is emotionally riled up, and they demand a response from me, sometimes I don't give one, because it's futile.  I guess this is the JADE tactic--don't justify, argue, defend or explain.  And if someone insists that I respond, I've come back with, "Is there anything that I could say right now that would make you feel better?"  And this totally stumps them.  They have to calm down first.

I'm sorry for your situation.  It's bad enough to be fighting, but there are fair fights and unfair ones.  The unfair ones seem so draining.  Right now I think you might focus on controlling your responses, while giving her time and space to calm down.  If I were you, I wouldn't fill out the form, because she's fighting unfairly and trying to get you to do things you don't want to do by escalating (threats, yelling, demanding legal action, etc.).  You probably can't control her moods, but you can control your actions.  I'd say, don't fill out her form because she's threatening and baiting you.  But if you do decide that a separation (or legal equivalent in your state) is the best course of action for you, then you do it, on your terms, and with your lawyer if necessary.

[Notwendy]

People use the behaviors they have if they work. For your wife- her behavior works for her if it leads to your appeasing behavior. Your appeasing behavior "works" for you in the sense that it gives you a momentary reprieve from her requests.

Now, you are beginning to change these patterns and have some boundaries on the money issue. She doesn't like this. It makes sense she'd escalate the behaviors she's used that have worked for her to get you to back down. Why wouldn't she?

Think extinction burst. Pavlov's dogs just pushed the buttons harder to get their treats. Also think intermittent reinforcement is the strongest one. If she escalates and you give in, she learns that escalation works. Likely this has been the pattern between you.

My BPD mother threatened divorce many times but didn't follow through with it. The idea is to let your wife be responsible for her wishes. If she wants to divorce you, then hand that over to her to follow through on. If you want to divorce, that's on you to do, but if you don't- hand over the work of that to her. You don't help her with this accomplishment. However, you do protect yourself. If at any point her threats become actions- like she really gets herself a lawyer, you need to have your own lawyer too.

I think people resist consulting a lawyer because it seems to be the same as getting a divorce but consulting a lawyer may be for information and protective purposes.

If she truly wants a divorce and takes action, I don't think it's in your power to stop her. However, if you are so fearful of divorce that you will do anything to try to change her mind- using this as a threat could be effective for her. One idea is to respond but to stay calm and not emotionally reactive. Reply- "I see that you have sent me something to sign for a divorce. I don't wish to have a divorce but if this is what you wish to do, I will need to consult a lawyer. I won't discuss this topic further or sign any papers without my own legal advice".

I don't think this is a harsh reply. It's a realistic one. She brought it up. It's a good general rule to not sign or agree to anything without legal advice on just about any arrangement. Discussions are not going to go anywhere but escalate.

[Skip]

Seems harsh but what say you all?

"Escalatory" in both directions comes to mind (whether she files or doesn't file). I get the feeling, don't deny that it is a legitimate, and I think it will feel good in the moment.  

But is it constructive? That's the most emotionally mature question to answer. You aren't a destructive person.  Even if this heads for divorce, you want to be constructive.

She throwing all this "crap" at you for a reason that makes sense to her. People with BPD traits are notoriously self destructive with themselves so its rationale to be self destructive with others.

The hard thing is to realize that all this behavior makes sense to her. If you know what the rationale is, it may help.

What is her primary beef? When you think back, what it the common thread in all her complaints about the marriage?