Should I Start a Family with BPD Spouse?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I married my wife two years ago and we would both like to have children. The first year of our marriage was particularly tumultuous. She has never been diagnosed with BPD but clearly exhibits most of the traits of someone with petulant BPD. I have not been successful with keeping her in individual or marriage counseling for very long at a time. Unfortunately, she has the classic backstory of abuse and family dysfunction as well.

Early in our marriage, my wife moved across the country to be near me and it was a big change for her. The relationship seemed impossible for a long time. She would act out every two or three days. Constantly demanding, jealous, and making the most bizarre accusations of infidelity. Stating that I don’t care for her, love her, or that I want to be with someone else. For the last several months (1.5 - 2 years into the marriage) life together has been much better. Nowadays the accusations/episodes are far less frequent and don’t result in full blown tantrums or all day pouting sessions. Her emotions are more controlled rather than controlling and she takes responsibility more often for various tasks and roles.

It can still be a challenging marriage but I can start to picture having children with her. We are getting older and need to move forward soon. But I am nervous that she will relapse and not be able to deal with the transition to motherhood. If she does revert to the most unstable version of herself, I cannot imagine bringing a child into that kind of disordered environment. Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD?  - Thank you for your thoughts

[Moe90]

I married my wife two years ago and we would both like to have children. The first year of our marriage was particularly tumultuous. She has never been diagnosed with BPD but clearly exhibits most of the traits of someone with petulant BPD. I have not been successful with keeping her in individual or marriage counseling for very long at a time. Unfortunately, she has the classic backstory of abuse and family dysfunction as well.

Early in our marriage, my wife moved across the country to be near me and it was a big change for her. The relationship seemed impossible for a long time. She would act out every two or three days. Constantly demanding, jealous, and making the most bizarre accusations of infidelity. Stating that I don’t care for her, love her, or that I want to be with someone else. For the last several months (1.5 - 2 years into the marriage) life together has been much better. Nowadays the accusations/episodes are far less frequent and don’t result in full blown tantrums or all day pouting sessions. Her emotions are more controlled rather than controlling and she takes responsibility more often for various tasks and roles.

It can still be a challenging marriage but I can start to picture having children with her. We are getting older and need to move forward soon. But I am nervous that she will relapse and not be able to deal with the transition to motherhood. If she does revert to the most unstable version of herself, I cannot imagine bringing a child into that kind of disordered environment. Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD?  - Thank you for your thoughts

[kells76]

Hi Moe90 and a warm

So glad you're here getting support and asking questions ahead of time. Adding kids to the family is a big decision. It's smart to be informed about the plusses and minuses, especially if you suspect BPD is in the mix.

I married my wife two years ago and we would both like to have children. The first year of our marriage was particularly tumultuous. She has never been diagnosed with BPD but clearly exhibits most of the traits of someone with petulant BPD. I have not been successful with keeping her in individual or marriage counseling for very long at a time. Unfortunately, she has the classic backstory of abuse and family dysfunction as well.

What made your first year of marriage so tumultuous, specifically?

What traits of hers are you finding most challenging to cope with?

Early in our marriage, my wife moved across the country to be near me and it was a big change for her. The relationship seemed impossible for a long time. She would act out every two or three days. Constantly demanding, jealous, and making the most bizarre accusations of infidelity. Stating that I don’t care for her, love her, or that I want to be with someone else. For the last several months (1.5 - 2 years into the marriage) life together has been much better. Nowadays the accusations/episodes are far less frequent and don’t result in full blown tantrums or all day pouting sessions. Her emotions are more controlled rather than controlling and she takes responsibility more often for various tasks and roles.

What do you think changed, between early on and now?

It can still be a challenging marriage but I can start to picture having children with her. We are getting older and need to move forward soon. But I am nervous that she will relapse and not be able to deal with the transition to motherhood. If she does revert to the most unstable version of herself, I cannot imagine bringing a child into that kind of disordered environment. Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD?  - Thank you for your thoughts

I really understand that urge to have kids as you get older. It's powerful.

While I haven't read it yet, this memoir, "Get Me Out of Here" by Rachel Reiland, does discuss how a young mother with BPD copes with her diagnosis, and with family life. Could be worth a read in your situation.

In terms of examples, my H's kids' mom has many BPD-type traits (though no diagnosis as far as I know). H and I have been married since the kids were 5 & 7, and they are now 16 & 18. Probably the most stable time for the two families was when the kids had a dedicated counselor for a few years, who also worked with both parents. Things have not gotten better since then; we recently had to call CPS about suspected neglect and DV at the kids' mom's home. She does not have overt acting-out behaviors (no official substance abuse/alcoholism, not violent), but has stayed basically the same person all these years -- lots of blame, lots of emotionally manipulating the kids, little to no insight into how her behaviors contribute to conflict.

...

BPD seems to impact close relationships the most. You've certainly experienced it, as a spouse. The child-parent relationship is also an incredibly close relationship. Unfortunately, it's likely that if your W isn't in meaningful treatment, her BPD will impact the kids at some level.

Not all BPD traits are the same and each pwBPD is a unique individual. Some pwBPD seem to act out more violently and be more impulsive and have more struggles with self-harm and substance abuse. Those are hugely affecting to children and tend to get more attention.

Other pwBPD may not act out as much, but the behaviors and traits are also affecting to children, even if they aren't as visible as addiction and violence. Withdrawal, unpredictable emotions, depression, and unreliability also deeply affect child development. In some ways, it can be more confusing to kids when a parent has emotional issues vs physical issues -- kind of like "But Mom never hit me, or punched holes in the walls, or drove drunk, or beat me, so why do I feel this way?"

While it would be difficult for many here to recommend starting a family with a pwBPD who isn't in meaningful treatment, what we can say is that ultimately it's your decision, and no matter what you choose, we'll be here to walk alongside you and support you in developing the critical new tools and skills to have a more effective relationship.

...

Are you in any kind of counseling or therapy right now?

[ChooseHappiness]

It can still be a challenging marriage but I can start to picture having children with her. We are getting older and need to move forward soon. But I am nervous that she will relapse and not be able to deal with the transition to motherhood. If she does revert to the most unstable version of herself, I cannot imagine bringing a child into that kind of disordered environment. Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD?  - Thank you for your thoughts

I'm curious if you'll find success stories of BPD parenting on this forum. It would be nice to see, though.

My own experience is that my xwBPD becoming a parent was an absolute disaster. She simply did not have the capacity to care for others outside of the maternity leave time, and even that was uneven. In fact, it was in the early years of having children that her BPD really started to show itself. Children just add so much stress to a family situation, and BPD people simply aren't good at managing stress. So they get triggered and start to spiral, and then everything goes to hell.

I was able to manage for many years by basically becoming the sole caregiver for the children -- essentially single parenting within the marriage. Even this wasn't enough to always protect the children, who suffered massive amounts of emotional abuse and the occasional moment of physical abuse. If you think it's hard to process the abuse she heaps upon you, imagine her doing the same to young children. Because she almost certainly will.

All of this also exacted a huge toll on me that eventually led to panic attacks, loss of my sense of self, and so on. I had to set up some pretty strong boundaries after a time, which led to the end of my marriage.

I love my children and wouldn't trade them for anything. But if I had to do it all over again, I would prefer to have them with someone else.

The thing with children is once you have them, you can't return them. They are your responsibility for the next 20 years or so. And children very much complicate the breakup process if you decide to leave down the road.

BTW, my ex also had the classic story of family abuse and dysfunction. Let's just say I no longer trust her account of things.

My advice to everyone these days is "When people show you who they are, believe them and don't hope for some other version."

[Gerda]

I would suggest doing a lot of research on BPD first before you make this decision.

I can understand wanting to have kids before you get too old. My husband and I had problems with infertility and didn't manage to have our daughter until I was in my late 30's and he was in his early 50's, and it turns out that was the only kid we'll be able to have, but I'm still grateful we at least got that one.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure my mother has BPD, and I'm also pretty sure my husband has BPD. I figured this out about my mom when I was in my 20's and ended up reading a lot about what it's like to have a mother with BPD. That explains a lot about various mental health issues I've had over the years.

Unfortunately I didn't figure out my husband probably has BPD until after we had our daughter and his behavior got much, much worse. There were some red flags before, but I was in that situation where my biological clock was running out, and didn't think I'd be able to find a new husband in time to have a kid at all, so I had one with the husband I had. My therapist also thinks that since I have a mom with BPD, my mom normalized certain dysfunctional BPD behaviors so that when my husband started doing them to me, I didn't realize anything was wrong with it, at least not at first.

And now here I am preparing to divorce him because his abusive behavior has gotten so bad that I think divorce would be the best thing not only for me, but for our 4 year old daughter as well.

Now, BPD works a bit differently in men vs. women. I've read that men with BPD tend to make their wives into their "primary attachment figure," and then when they have kids, they resent their wife for spending less time with them and more time with the kids and feel betrayed and abandoned. That makes a lot of sense for me and what happened with my husband. It's almost like he's jealous of how much of my attention our daughter takes up, when he used to get all my attention.

Women with BPD tend to attach to their kid instead (their oldest kid if they have multiple ones), which is what my mom did to me. Then when the kid grows up and starts to become more independent, that's when they feel abandoned and betrayed. So Moms with BPD sometimes seem like great parents at first, but only while the kids are little. Things get bad when the kid hits adolescence.

So in your situation I would read up on two things: read up on what it's like to deal with a mom with BPD. Most of the books out there on that topic are for adult children of moms with BPD, but that will show you what your possible future kid might be in for. (Things like becoming parentified by the BPD parent, emotional incest, etc.)

And also read up on what it's like to co-parent with someone with BPD. Most of the books out there about that are gender-neutral and will let you know what you'll be in for if you have kids with someone with BPD. (I think ChooseHappiness summed it up well that the mentally-healthy parent ends up functioning as the only parent, and it's often even harder than being a true single parent because you're taking care of the spouse with BPD on top of taking care of the kids.)

You might be at an advantage if you know ahead of time what you would be getting yourself into, rather than figuring it out afterwards like I did. Just keep in mind that there is a very good chance that her behavior will get worse after you have a kid, and then you might have to divorce her with a kid involved, and figure out child custody and all that stuff. Do you want to have kids (and have kids with this particular woman) badly enough that it's worth it to you to take that risk?

[ForeverDad]

Many here relate how dysfunction (abuse, mental illness, etc) seems to be generational, that is, it is passed down from one generation to the next and so on.  While there may be a genetic component in some cases, it seems to be environment-driven.  If the home environment is dysfunctional and chaotic, the children will be damaged to some extent.  And once grown their own future life choices may be compromised, they may choose a spouse like their mentally ill parent or a spouse like their reasonably normal but sabotaged and appeasing parent.

Without children, ending a dysfunctional marriage is primarily about finances, assets and debts.  While not stress-free, it is manageable.

With children, there is an added and vastly more complicated set of issues... custody and parenting  schedules.  Divorce with children involved is filled with stress, often repeated false ("unsubstantiated") allegations of DV and child abuse where all the pwBPD's behaviors are projected onto you as though you're the misbehaving one.

As already mentioned in this thread, family life typically worsens when you add children into the mix.  In my case, I believe having a child directly led to my marriage's failure within a few years and for years thereafter I was struggling with the court-ordered parenting chaos.

Like many others here, I too faced a dilemma.  I couldn't ever have imagined my marriage failing but I had no other choice.  The downside of BPD is that besides the ranting, raging, ultimatums, etc there is the constant Denial, Blaming and Blaming Shifting.

As I look back, my ex's father/stepfather issues were much more serious than I could have ever imagined.  While over the years my spouse had gotten worse and worse, it was somewhat manageable... until we had a child.  Immediately I noticed a change.  At first I thought it was that she felt she could love only one of us and she chose our child.  As I look back, I think the core issue was that I had become a father and she couldn't see me as the husband of the decade before.

The only alternative left was to end the adult relationship and focus on setting a proper parenting example.  (Actually, it imploded with police and all sorts of horrendous allegations.  Family court was absolutely essential as The Authority.)  Halfway measures don't seem to work when someone is repeatedly cycling in and out of dysfunctional, even abusive, behavior.

[Moe90]

What made your first year of marriage so tumultuous, specifically?

What traits of hers are you finding most challenging to cope with?

What do you think changed, between early on and now?

Thank you for your warm welcome! I think the emotional instability is the answer to the first two questions. I would come home to my wife every day unsure what will happen when I open the front door. Perhaps I will be showered with affection, or perhaps I will be screamed at, or perhaps I will be given the silent treatment. Maybe we will have a lovely evening together or maybe I will lock myself in the office to sleep that night. I grew up in an very stable household. I find it extremely wearing to face the uncertainty every day.

Why are things better? Well, we talked about the first year of our marriage the other night. She admits that it was unstable but states it was because of me. She has not taken responsibility her actions. She hasn't been in counseling. Her better state of mind appears situational. We are now settled in a beautiful home that she picked out. She is more settled in her surroundings and less stressed.

[zachira]

I am the daughter of a mother with BPD who is deceased. Parenting was extremely stressful for my mother. She often left crying babies alone in their crib for hours on end because she could not bear to hear children crying. She had frequent episodes of rage which she took out on her children. There were times when she was extremely charming and generous, the traits I believe that made my father fall in love with her and stay married to her.

[ForeverDad]

I would come home to my wife every day unsure what will happen when I open the front door. Perhaps I will be showered with affection, or perhaps I will be screamed at, or perhaps I will be given the silent treatment. Maybe we will have a lovely evening together or maybe I will lock myself in the office to sleep that night. I grew up in an very stable household. I find it extremely wearing to face the uncertainty every day.

That is not uncommon.  While at first there were few signs of disorderedness, over the years my ex-spouse's poor behavior intensified.  Her early sobbing episodes at night turned into vehement cursing episodes.  She had issues with  her co-workers who had become her friends.  After a decade my distress was at the point I was looking for a way for her to feel better.  I had the brilliant idea for us to have a child.  Oh no, clueless me, not brilliant at all.  Having children does not fix serious existing adult issues, it magnifies them.

I discovered that divorcing with children was immensely more problematic and expensive than a simple divorce without children.  And then I was faced with the remaining years until my child was grown having to share custody and parenting with an erratic and often uncooperative ex-spouse.

I too was a "deer in the headlights" person who could not even contemplate a divorce.  Yet nothing I tried worked.  Life with the discord, rants and rages was growing increasing worse and worse.

Ever been to the amusement park and played Whack-a-Mole?  No matter how many times you hit the mole it popped up again and again.  That's almost how it is with attempts to avoid triggering someone who is disordered, especially one with acting-out behaviors.  We can try to minimize the triggering but we have to accept that it is not only "us", anything and everything can be a trigger.

Years ago before we separated, I would come home not knowing who I would meet.  I could leave a ranting maniac in the morning and come home to a calm spouse.  I could leave a calm spouse in the morning and come home to a raging stranger on the rampage.  I recall one time I came home to a calm spouse but as she sat down on the sofa to tell me about something, it reminded her of something else and before my eyes her face changed and morphed into my anti-spouse.  She did it by herself, I didn't do anything but listen.

So accept that you may be able to avoid causing some triggering but it will happen with or without you.  In fact, what works now many not work in the future, it's like these chronic immune diseases we have today, some things may work but in time the malady finds a way to reduce the effectiveness.  Unless and until she seeks meaningful therapy and diligently applies it in her thinking and perceptions for the long term and makes real progress then it won't get better...

However, be aware that even with diagnosis and therapy, if it even succeeds, your spouse won't be entirely 'normal'.  Would she be normal enough for you to contemplate having children?  At best, you likely wouldn't know for years.  And then there's the complication of simply having kids, life changing from two to three or more is a entirely new dynamic.

I had thought that having a child would help my spouse be less unhappy watching her baby discover the wonders and joys as a child.  Nice idea but it backfired.  First, it changed her perceptions, I was no longer the man she married, I was a father.  Not a bad thing in itself but her biggest childhood trauma was her stepfather and my becoming a father changed the dynamics of our relationship.  It was not fun being compared to him. Second, her SF had come into her family's life when she was three years old.  So as our child grew from a toddler to a preschooler, our home life - repeated conflict - was even worse than before.  There was no choice but to separate and divorce while he was still three years old.  There is a truism I note, Having children does not in itself resolve problems if there are substantive mental health issues, rather it can make a divorce vastly more complicated and expensive due to the added custody and parenting factors should the marriage fail.

[PeteWitsend]

Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD?  - Thank you for your thoughts

I don't.  BPDxw was not a terrible mother at times, but really struggled with managing a household after our child was born. 

I think of the phrase "when the cameras are rolling" because it seemed like she was at her best when she was around other moms, or family, or doing things to show what a great mom she was.  I think now it was really all about her parenting being mainly about boosting her own public image, and less about actual love and affection for our daughter. 

When the cameras were NOT rolling, she was a pretty lazy mom, and would put as much of the burden on me as she could. 

Even to this day, our D has to parent herself much of the time... BPDxw never has sunscreen, bug spray, etc., and I'm often having to deliver medical care for stupid things that happen because her mom can't be bothered to make sure our daughter is taken care of properly.  Even though I pay child support, I often have to get her shoes, haircuts, etc. etc. because her mom will not bother to take care of those things because that cuts into her weekend plans of sitting around on social media all day.

What I've heard is that pwBPD really view their kids as extensions of themselves, and that lasts until the kids start asserting their own identities (typically as teenagers) and then the situation gets ugly.  And I've heard similar stories as to what others have related in this thread. 

[ForeverDad]

This is a board where - mostly - the adult relationship was bad enough that the relationship failed.  Without children as a factor, after the divorce the two adults moved on with their lives.  Having kids is/was a complicating factor that made future years (custody and parenting issues) even more difficult for us.

Perhaps you can browse other boards such as Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup.  At the top of that board is a thread named "Success stories".  It doesn't look like anyone has posted to if for over a year.  If the spouse's BPD traits and behavior are not too extreme and the spouse is determined to do meaningful therapy and stick with it long term then maybe having children would be manageable.  You just never know how things will develop.  The reality is that even with therapy there are no guarantees the other's parenting would be healthy on a consistent basis.

[thankful person]

Apologies for copying this from a previous post of mine on the bettering board which got no response from the op sadly.

I have lots of experience with this and it is such a double edged sword. I want to start with the positive because I am absolutely humbled by what a good mother my bpd wife is. We have 3 children under the age of 5, lesbian marriage and my wife has carried and birthed all our ivf babies.

I have worked with young children for nearly 30 years. I thought I knew it all. Leave them to get on with things and figure things out and they will grow tough and strong. Despite the fact that I was suicidal at age 12 and could this be connected to my mother working so much from when I was a small baby… who knows?

Anyway, I have learnt so so so much from dbpdw in the way she has raised our children. She has breastfed all of them almost exclusively and for a whole 6 months. She still co sleeps with them (which I absolutely hated, particularly when they were very young). All of them have stayed at home with her and slept in her arms for at least the first 12-18 months. I am astounded to tell you that our children are so kind and confident, outgoing, sociable, helpful and wonderful little people. And I do believe this is largely due to my wife giving them so much love and time and attention, basically giving up her whole life for them for the first few years (and they are 18 months apart so she never got her life back between pregnancies and breastfeeding, co sleeping etc).

Ok so here is the flip side. My wife shouts a lot, rages, screeches, shrieks, you name it, usually at me but sometimes at the kids and sometimes for no good reason like she’s trying to get comfy to breast feed and will suddenly screech at everyone to get out of the room. This often has them in tears and they quietly come to me for comfort.

My wife sometimes says horrible things to them like, “You always ruin everything”. She snatches things off them sometimes when she’s angry. She’s been known to snatch the children from my arms when they were babies. She is immensely jealous of their love for me and mine for them. She makes it very hard for them to have a relationship with my parents and family and has even threatened to physically throw me from the house during such arguments.

So whilst they honestly appear to be so emotionally and mentally healthy in so many ways… my eldest (4) has a speech delay and is showing signs of anxiety, stuttering, and scratching her skin (eczema and old chicken pox spots which haven’t healed). This is the same child who calls out hi and good morning and introduces herself to adults and children everywhere she goes, spreading so much joy.

But the truth is, I fear for their mental and emotional well being, now and in the future. I know things are much better than they would have been if I never found bpd fam and learnt to stand up for myself and to communicate with my wife better. But it’s been a very difficult time with all the babies, for about a year after each birth which has been most of my life the least few years, being told I’m not good enough etc etc, and that she wants me to leave… she seems to like me more since our littlest turned 1 year, but I can and will never trust in her love for me.

Hope that helps anyway and good luck with the journey.

[KayakerDude]

I would suggest not having children with someone exhibiting BPD behaviors.
Not because you wouldn't have beautiful children, but because of the life you are likely bringing them into.

Would you decide to have children if you were in a prison camp indefinitely? No. Would you decide to have children with a physically abusive spouse? Hopefully not. I think BPD is likely worse for children than any of those places.

But that's just my opinion after putting up with far too much bad behavior from my uBPDw with my kids. I so fervently wish I had taken steps to remove her children and mine from her behaviors.

[Notwendy]

I think this question is a part of a larger one. Do you want to stay married to this person for the long term?

To address the idea of "relapse". While there are reports of people being able to manage their BPD better- I think this happens when someone is willing to work with a therapist and is also accountable for their behavior.

The OP mentioned that his wife is not doing either of those.

From what I have observed with my own BPD mother is that- if we consider that these behaviors are coping mechanisms- then they will increase or decrease over time according to other circumstances. I think the OP has seen this as the behaviors increased during the adjustment to a move and now are less now that she is adjusted.
 
Even good events can be adjustments and stresses- and adding a child to a family is also an adjustment and can be one of those "good" stresses at times. Consider also that BPD affects all relationships- especially the ones that are closest. I think it's fair to assume then that it will effect the parent- child relationship too- to some extent. How much depends on many factors. Whatever behaviors you have seen with your spouse, the child will likely experience as well.

Which takes it back to the relationship. I think this is a relationship issue, not a child question. If you want a child and are hesitant because of your wife's behavior- this isn't about the child, it's about the relationship. Having a child makes it more complicated to dissolve a marriage. If that is a concern- then consider that this isn't what you want for the long term. If it's due to your wife's behavior- then consider that you are not married to someone who you feel is a safe parent for your children.

Which brings it back to you- if you wouldn't want to subject children to this person's behavior- why are you subjecting yourself to it? You are a factor in your child's well being and so they depend on you to be at your best.

I think this kind of question is more about the relationship than the child. The child is the innocent person in this situation- they can't "fix" a relationship or make it worse. The work of raising a child may add stressors in a marriage that isn't stable- but this is according to the parents. If you are hesitant - that is something to consider.

[PeteWitsend]

I don't.  BPDxw was not a terrible mother at times, but really struggled with managing a household after our child was born. 

...

Even to this day, our D has to parent herself much of the time... BPDxw never has sunscreen, bug spray, etc., and I'm often having to deliver medical care for stupid things that happen because her mom can't be bothered to make sure our daughter is taken care of properly.  Even though I pay child support, I often have to get her shoes, haircuts, etc. etc. because her mom will not bother to take care of those things because that cuts into her weekend plans of sitting around on social media all day.

... 

I realize my comments above may not have adequately conveyed the absolute hell I went through.  "struggled with managing the household" = screaming and yelling to get out of having to do the dishes, or angry outbursts out of nowhere if she had to do something and I didn't. 

Like...  I was with our D all morning, to give  BPDxw a break, and now I want to watch football.  Fair, right?  Well, you'd think, but 5 minutes later the reality that she's going to have to play with and watch our daughter alone sinks in, and she's in my face screaming at me because I texted my mom a picture of our D, and not a picture of BPDxw. 

And note, as others have said, do not expect calm periods to reflect overall improvement.  A nice weekend can easily be followed by a week of hell.  and also, in my experience, calm periods in our lives would often provoke really out-of-step dramatic outbursts from her, as though she needed drama and fighting to exist.  I think you're seeing that a bit now, with lots of conflict during what should otherwise be a happy time in your lives, recently married, no kids, no serious responsibilities.

I only started to realize this stuff gradually, b/c the first year after our D was born, it was not too bad, from what I remember.  Probably worse than it would've been with a non-disordered partner, but raising a newborn is exhausting, and a lot of the time she was probably too tired to fight.

After our D turned one, things took a turn for the worst.  That's when the randomly provoked fights would start, and I probably started getting PTSD from the fear that at any given moment, she could start a screaming match about something, or nothing at all, or from seeing a text message from my mom, or a friend of mine, or NOT seeing a text message when she expected to receive one.  It was ugly.  After a certain point, we would spend anywhere from 1/3 to close to 1/2 of a month not talking to eachother after one of her "Blowups." 

My happiest memories with my D from those years are times when we got to go out without BPDxw for whatever reason... only on those occasions could I really relax and enjoy myself. 

When kids are young enough, they don't pick up on these things in the same way as an adult would, but they gradually normalize the behavior over time, and it starts to affect them. 

My D is now 10, and she's confided in others that her mom fights "with everyone" and she doesn't like it and doesn't like the screaming.  Yet, she herself explodes and screams sometimes.  I can see the "normalization" of conflict manifesting itself in her, even though she doesn't like it and recognizes it as a problem in her mom.

I try to enjoy parenthood when I can, but it's fraught with worry, and long periods of time I can't be there for my daughter.  And I constantly worry about how bad things are at BPDxw's house, whether my D tells me what she's going through, and when the other shoe will drop. 

[Notwendy]

My happiest memories with my D from those years are times when we got to go out without BPDxw for whatever reason... only on those occasions could I really relax and enjoy myself.

My happiest memories of my Dad were when we spent time with him without my BPD mother. These were the times that he was "himself"- and more relaxed. Likely we felt more relaxed during these times too.

Your D will find these times will also probably be special memories for her too. It may seem "unfair" that you are the primary parent but the outcome was the stronger parental bond.

I am aware of what he went through. I know it was difficult. We witnessed/experienced a lot of it too. But outings with Dad were happy moments for us, and hopefully they were for him too.

[livednlearned]

Does anyone have examples of success and continued progress for a mother with BPD? 

I didn't read through the other responses so this may repeat what others already recommended.

I would read Borderline Mother by Christina Lawson and maybe spend some time on the Children of BPD board here.

pwBPD are often suffer severe emotional and psychological development so under the best of times you may feel like she's a partner, and at other times she's a child. Having a child when you are a child is a tough road for the actual child. For you, it can be like leaving your real child with an adult child. And as your real child gets older, she or he will feel the need to parent your spouse.

If you have a lot of family in the area and make enough money to hire help and have relationship and communication skills to help you be an emotional leader in a turbulent home, that could potentially offset the severity.

But I would also increase the odds of a broken home. I think it's 50 percent for most (at least American) marriages end in divorce. I don't know what it is for BPD marriages but I have to imagine it's higher.

You mention she fears you are not being faithful. There is a history here of BPD partners making allegations like that while engaging in infidelity themselves 

If having kids is a goal maybe look at worse-case scenarios and see how you feel. I can't imagine life without my son yet the battle over custody nearly triggered a nervous breakdown and drained me financially. I read somewhere that high-conflict divorces (compared to low-conflict) take roughly 8 years to recover from financially.

It's smart that you're asking these questions.

[PeteWitsend]

Jeez, even if the divorce is not high conflict, divorce is still financially devastating... you not only lose out on assets you have to split, but the legal fees are wild, AND if your the non-custodial/non-primary parent, you'll likely own child support payments until your child is 18.

and also consider that the pwBPD is not likely to prudently spend that child support on things your child(ren) need.  They're going to blow it on a bigger car for them, trips, etc.  So you'll probably also be the parent planning for your kids' long term needs, education, etc. 

All that with a BPD-ex is not fun.  They don't get more magnanimous over time once you're out of the picture.

[CravingPeace]

No you shouldn't have children with a uBPD or BPD.

[EyesUp]

If I had known then what I know now, I would not have had children with my uBPDxw.

We have three kids, they are amazing.

In most ways, we are extremely fortunate - they are healthy, smart, etc.

However.

They all have varying degrees of anxiety, 2 are in therapy, 1 (uBPDxw's favored child) is presently enmeshed with mom/alienated from me, etc etc etc.

If navigating a relationship with a BPD spouse is difficult, navigating parenthood with the children of a BPD spouse is orders of magnitude more difficult.

First, your spouse is like the weather - you can't accurately predict tomorrow.  Never mind next week, month, year...

Next, there is no insulating kids of a pwBPD from BPD...  your kids will be far more likely to develop b-cluster behaviors, and/or other behavioral health problems, compensations, adaptations... anxiety, depression... the list goes on.  Having a kid with a pwBPD is signing up for a high probability of these dynamics.

In all candor, I love my kids - but if I had known then what I know now about my x and BPD, I never would have gone down this path.  

Love does not conquer all - when a pwBPD cannot perceive love, or misinterprets love... etc etc.  

We generally don't take a position here - We recognize that everyone's situation is unique and we all need to come to our conclusions.  

That said:  I really like the concise post from CravingPeace.

[PeteWitsend]

I wish I could have had my daughter with someone else. 

I can't say I wish I didn't have kids.  It's an impossible question to ask a parent.  She loves me and I love her and we have a great relationship. 

But yeah, I can also say that it was a mistake to have kids with BPDxw. 

It's made my life far more complicated and burdensome, and when I was still with BPDxw, it was hard to enjoy fatherhood because of all the stress of the relationship, and BPDxw's behavior.

[CravingPeace]

I can add a bit more to my concise answer. I have three wonderful kids. I will never regret having them. But the disfunction I deal with and thry are starying to deal with is very very traumatic. Currently going through divorce she is very awkward non compliant, agrees things then goes back on them. Constantly gas lights and projects and blames me for her bad behaviour. If I could never see her again I would. Trying to stay friendly is very very difficult. I try. I am starting to see her behaviour rub off on my oldest and it is very concerning. I am hoping she lets me out without a huge long battle. But it is all very traumatic. If i could still have my children but they had a different mother i would in a heart beat. I am in for a very long hard road for over a decade. So no I would never recommend children with a BPD unless you want a very painful future.

If you think their behaviour is bad now, try adding children and then divorce

[Notwendy]

So no I would never recommend children with a BPD unless you want a very painful future.

It's good to see that the fathers here think their kids are great. You would not ever let on your regrets to your kids, but I could sense something. Kids are magical thinkers and may think the situation is their fault. Kids want to make their parents happy- and I believed that once I left home for college, they would be.

Of course that wasn't true. Their marriage was dysfunctional and they weren't happy- with kids at home or not. So why did they stay together? For reasons besides kids, and those were complicated. I used to think my father was somehow a victim of my mother and her behavior. Yet, he chose to stay with her. He also was a part of the dynamics between them. Having kids may have been an additional stress on their marriage but it wasn't the cause of their dysfunction and our growing up and leaving home didn't solve their issues.

If you are already unhappy and feel the situation is too toxic to bring a child into, then it is also too toxic for you.

[PeteWitsend]

...So why did they stay together? For reasons besides kids, and those were complicated. I used to think my father was somehow a victim of my mother and her behavior. Yet, he chose to stay with her. He also was a part of the dynamics between them. Having kids may have been an additional stress on their marriage but it wasn't the cause of their dysfunction and our growing up and leaving home didn't solve their issues.
...

Earlier in my relationship with BPDxw, when the red flags were waving out in the open and every instinct in my body was telling me I made a mistake, I did take some solace in thoughts that being patient and staying committed in a trying situation were rewards on their own. 

I'm not religious, nor do I believe in "karma" but if either were true, I suppose those would've been even greater motivations to stay.  I just believed in being a committed husband and (eventual) father, and treating people well, because I think more people should be like that. 

Maybe your father had similar beliefs?  Maybe religion and traditional family obligations of manhood had a role in that?

A few years before I met BPDxw, I had a girlfriend who's parents had a very dysfunctional home life, including a special needs child that was violently aggressive toward all of them, and a danger to each parent (when I'd see them, they'd often have scratches all over their faces, and the kid would be grabbing each of them inappropriately). 

The mother refused to get the child professional help, and was in denial that there was anything wrong with him.  She also didn't work, or really contribute anything to the family unit that I could see.  It became clear to me that the father was the "glue" holding it all together, and I wonder why he didn't just leave, but I gathered it was for religious reasons and a traditional notion of fatherhood. 

Honestly, seeing her parents' dysfunctional one-sided relationship was a major reason I broke up with her.  Now why didn't I have that same foresight LATER, with BPDxw?  I guess she hid it better.  And we also got pregnant quickly...

[ForeverDad]

Kids are magical thinkers and may think the situation is their fault.

When a parent is ranting and raging and doing whatnot, the blaming is spewed everywhere, and if not directed at the kids at first, they are still exposed to it.

Besides them convinced it is their fault, they also do not have the words to express themselves and their distress about their environment, much less the courage to speak of it.

If you are already unhappy and feel the situation is too toxic to bring a child into, then it is also too toxic for you.

That about sums it up.

As PeteWitsend advised, until you know which direction your life's path leads, avoid pregnancy.  You cannot trust her remembering birth control methods.  Hearing "oops, I forgot" is not a wise way to decide your future.

[Notwendy]

I'm not religious, nor do I believe in "karma" but if either were true, I suppose those would've been even greater motivations to stay.  I just believed in being a committed husband and (eventual) father, and treating people well, because I think more people should be like that. 

Maybe your father had similar beliefs?  Maybe religion and traditional family obligations of manhood had a role in that?

I wouldn't say my father was very religious but he did embrace the moral code "be a good person" and took the marriage commitment seriously. I think there were several reasons- they didn't have information about BPD at the time. Although my BPD mother is at the severe end, she can "pull it together" in moments and when she does, she can be amazing. I think when there were good times, those times were good. Then there were the bad times.

I think he also believed that psychiatry had the ability to somehow treat her and so she was in therapy. Therapy didn't work with her. She doesn't take accountability for her behavior- there's always a "reason" and she isn't motivated to look at herself but he didn't know that therapy wouldn't work at the time.

I think he felt responsible for her. She's severely impaired. Without him, she probably would have been hospitalized. I don't think he would have let that happen. I would not have blamed him if he chose to leave. I know he was a part of the dynamics as an enabler but also I hesitate to be critical of him because of what he endured and the huge effort he made on all our behalf. I also think at some level, he loved her. I think he made the decisions he did based on what he knew at the time and what he hoped for for her.

[CravingPeace]

As PeteWitsend advised, until you know which direction your life's path leads, avoid pregnancy.  You cannot trust her remembering birth control methods.  Hearing "oops, I forgot" is not a wise way to decide your future.

Or when she leaves her pill packed out , and they are being taken so you feel some comfort, but later you find the pills had been removed from the packet (the exact right ones by day) and put in the trash. When questioned "oh the younger kids must have done that"

[CravingPeace]

Frankly I am starting to think she isn't just BPD but Anti social/or Psychopathy mixed in. Like she complains about something, I try and help her and give her some information, so she smiles and says something cruel using that information. It's like she is thinking "yes I got him to help him, now I am going to hurt him"

[zachira]

People often start a family or have another child with a partner/spouse because they fear the lose of the relationship. Studies show that having a child makes a relationship more stressful and make a deteriorating relationship worse.

[PeteWitsend]

Frankly I am starting to think she isn't just BPD but Anti social/or Psychopathy mixed in. Like she complains about something, I try and help her and give her some information, so she smiles and says something cruel using that information. It's like she is thinking "yes I got him to help him, now I am going to hurt him"

I experienced a bit of that realization as well.  after a fight once in which divorce got mentioned, and she said something keeping our D from me, BPDxw said with a really self-satisfied voice "I got you."  and I was like "What do you mean?" and she claimed by getting me to move to another state, away from my friends and family, she would force me to choose between friends and family or daughter, if I left her, ie, if I wanted to have a relationship with my daughter, I'd have to stay in our new state, far from my friends and family. 

The intentional part of her behavior was surprising to me; it's not just BPD mood swings, but more aware and calculating negativity.

Interestingly, I read somewhere that people with ASPD tended to do poorly in court once they realize they can't manipulate the rules and proceedings to their own ends, and lose interest in them... kinda contrary to what you'd expect from a pwBPD. 

BPDxw seemed to do the same, reaching out to me directly to settle and claiming the process & cost was unnecessary.

[CravingPeace]

Thanks Pete, I am going to start a new thread.