Overwhelming guilt

[Teach21]

Do you feel guilty for not being what your bpd family member wants you to be or that you can't love them how they need you to? Does your mind ever play tricks on you and you start to feel that maybe it is all your fault and you just didn't give them a fair chance?

My mom lives in another country and our relationship is always full of strife and drama. In February, I told her I wanted to visit her this summer and gave her dates for a month. I asked her 4 times before she answered. She finally said no because when I visited her 2 years ago, there was no love. I kept her at arms length and didn't make an effort to bond with her. She can't go through that again. What she said is true. I don't trust her or feel comfortable with her so am not real affectionate with her. I feel like I always brace for an attack and keep walls up. After she told me no, I planned 2 trips with other people. At the end of May, my mom messaged me asking if I'd made any plans yet for the summer. I told her I did. She told me she'd changed her mind and had been looking for airline tickets for me. I know she expected me to cancel my other plans, but I didn't. Other people had already spent money and made arrangements for the trips. I took one of those trips in June and messaged her afterward that I could still visit her. However, I would only have 3 weeks and not 4 as she prefers. She responded "Oh so if you can make it only a few as you like, you would." I reminded her that I had previously given her a month time frame and she told me no. Her response was for me to tell her goodbye and be happy that I don't have to tolerate her any more. That was 2 weeks ago and I haven't responded. I don't know what to say. (She's been telling me she's going to die this year but tells me that every year.)

Today I'm very sad and feel like maybe I didn't need to keep her at a distance, and it's my problem. She always says the family has ostracized and rejected her but asks what has she done that's so bad. Is she really so unlovable?  That makes me cry. All she wants is love. Now I question if she really is who I think she is. Maybe I have a twisted perception and view her in an old mindset. Have I really given her a chance? Is it my fault for keeping distance there? Am I really justified in doing that?  I'm going down memory lane in my mind thinking of all the times I acted unfairly towards her because I didn't want to be around her.  I didn't like my own mother and she made me so uncomfortable. I purposely avoided her and was selfish because I couldn't handle her emotions. She told me many years ago I needed counseling for childhood trauma but I always denied it. She said she was healed from all her trauma and is a different person. I view her with an old mindset.  I've always said I forgave her for things in the past, but it's what she does now that I respond to.  Just in the last couple of years, I realized how emotionally abused I was. She was right. I did need counseling and didn't get it. (I went briefly 2 years ago and the counselor is the one that suggested my mom could have bpd. I couldn't afford to go long term.). Could I have done things differently? Did I really give her a chance or try to understand her?  Is all this now because of childhood trauma I didn't deal with. I am just feeling overwhelming guilt today for how I treated her in the past and that I'm not visiting her. I am really writing this to vent and help me process my feelings.

[Notwendy]

I think we all have felt like this and continue to feel that way to some extent. Our mothers with BPD do not take accountability for their part in issues. They perceive themselves as victims of other people. Also, when they are in a good mood- they can be amazing- and during these times, we second guess ourselve "maybe it is me after all". Many of us have been raised to feel responsible for their feelings and so we feel guilty if their feelings are hurt.

Yes - they do feel hurt and want to be loved but they can't seem to connect their actions or words to why people keep a distance from them. It is sad. I feel sad for my mother, but being empathetic to her, she is able to manipulate me.

There were times I thought she had changed. I wanted to believe it. But eventually it would be the same thing with her.

Travel is an effort and an expense. You'd have hoped your mother would be happy at your travel plans and she wasn't- so you changed them. That is an understandable response. People don't make the effort and cost to visit someone who says no to their travel plans! Now, she's acting as the one who is hurt.

This is classic Karpman triangle dynamics. I've experienced that as well. It's disappointing to be put in "persecutor" position when that isn't anything we intend to do. On the other hand, we also don't want to be treated poorly- and so we need to have boundaries on this situation- which our mother's feel is hurtful too. I think we just have to do the best with this- have some kind of balance between contact and distance.

[Teach21]

Thank you so much for your response!

I have several long standing friendships with people who have helped me see how much she manipulates me. However, I always manage to get sucked back in. This forum and hearing from people who have experienced the same things is very helpful, and I've gotten better at handling situations. This time I simply didn't respond instead of becoming the rescuer. This is so hard for me and I think part of why I am feeling so guilty. I want to rescue her from those feelings. I also know she will then make me the persecutor and I will defend and justify myself. I'm at a stand still now and have no idea how to engage in communication again. She normally goes silent until I pursue her and try to make things better. This time I went silent and didn't engage her. This is new territory for me. I don't want to not talk to her but don't even know what to say at this point. I will be wrong whatever I do. I know in her mind I don't love her because I haven't checked on her in two weeks.

[zachira]

Setting boundaries with disordered people, especially a BPD mother and people who project their overwhelming emotions onto others, is a painful process. We would so like to be nice to the disordered person and make them happy, yet we can't make another person happy. Having a mother with BPD is especially painful because our mother is the person who is supposed to love her children unconditionally and is her foundation for feeling loved. What helps you to disconnect from feeling so overwhelmed by how your mother treats you?

[zachira]

Setting boundaries with disordered people, especially a BPD mother and people who project their overwhelming emotions onto others, is a painful process. We would so like to be nice to the disordered person and make them happy, yet we can't make another person happy. Having a mother with BPD is especially painful because our mother is the person who is supposed to love her children unconditionally and is the children's foundation for feeling loved. What helps you to disconnect from feeling so overwhelmed by how your mother treats you?

[Teach21]

What helps you to disconnect from feeling so overwhelmed by how your mother treats you?

Staying busy, pushing it out of my mind, talking to friends and family, reading others' experiences on here, remembering times she threatened to burn the family photo album or to delete me from her phone if I didn't do what she wanted. Logically I know that is not normal behavior. In my heart, I feel sad for her, that her life has been so hard, and regret how I handled certain situations. Right now I'm off of work for the summer so have too much time to think.

[Notwendy]

It feels uncomfortable because we have been in the role of rescuer, fixer, and emotional caretaker for our BPD mothers. This is our part in the dynamics- and something we learne to do when we were so young, we weren't aware that it is a disordered pattern.

Some people resist the term "co-dependency" due to the "dependent" word in it. I don't think it means that. Most people who are emotional caretakers are very independent.  It means that we step in as rescuers because we feel the discomfort of the person with BPD and this is how we relieve our own discomfort too. Our feelings are connected (co-dependent) with theirs. To not do this feels uncomfortable. We don't want to feel this way, to be the "bad guy" if we don't do that for them. Using this idea- the advice about co-dependency has been helpful to me.

It took me some work to manage my part in the dynamic. Counseling can help. This doesn't mean we don't feel fear, obligation, guilt (FOG) when we change our behavior- but we can recognize it as our feelings and then make a decision about what to do rather than automatically step in and fix the situation.

I am in this situation at the moment. From my other thread, I am next of kin to call for my elderly BPD mother who is in assisted living. Her nurses give me periodic updates about how she is doing- because of this relationship. She told them not to call me and then got "discovered"- for this about a week ago. I haven't heard from her for several days. She will decide to call me when some time passes and she hopes I don't bring it up. I have no intention of bringing this up- it's not worth it. If I call her up and ask about it, she will act hurt that I am "being mean to her". I'm going to let her decide when she wants to call me.

When I was less aware of BPD and the dynamics, I sometimes didn't handle this as well as I wish. I have gotten angry at her - before- and it does no good. I feel sad for her that her children keep an emotional distance from her. I still try - to do my best with my mother but I don't have expectations that my intentions are succesful or seen by her in the same way. We are all just doing the best we can with what we know to do.

[Teach21]

When I was less aware of BPD and the dynamics, I sometimes didn't handle this as well as I wish. I have gotten angry at her - before- and it does no good. I feel sad for her that her children keep an emotional distance from her. I still try - to do my best with my mother but I don't have expectations that my intentions are succesful or seen by her in the same way. We are all just doing the best we can with what we know to do.

Thank you for your reply! I guess we need to extend grace and forgiveness to ourselves. Yes, we are doing the best we can. Thank you for the reminder to not have expectations. She will never see my intentions as I mean them.

[Notwendy]

Thank you for your reply! I guess we need to extend grace and forgiveness to ourselves. Yes, we are doing the best we can. Thank you for the reminder to not have expectations. She will never see my intentions as I mean them.

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Mine doesn't see my intentions. It's sad but I can't do anything about them. I have to stand firm with my own understanding of what my intentions are- no matter how she perceives them.

It's discouraging. I visit with the intention of it being a good visit and try to help her but she will find something to be unhappy about and let me know it.

One thing I have done better is to not take her reactions personally and so I don't feel as emotionally reactive to them. This doesn't mean I don't have any feelings about her behavior. I just don't see that reacting to it leads to any good and I think my own reactions are less frequent.

It's been interesting as when there is less drama between us, it's also more distant. It's as if the drama is a part of the connection. I just don't want to participate in a lot of drama. There's still chaos, confusion as her emotions play a part in the relationship but this is her emotions and personality and so is part of it.

[Teach21]

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One thing I have done better is to not take her reactions personally and so I don't feel as emotionally reactive to them. This doesn't mean I don't have any feelings about her behavior. I just don't see that reacting to it leads to any good and I think my own reactions are less frequent.

It's as if the drama is a part of the connection.

Yes! The drama is part of the connection. I told her years ago that she doesn't know what to do if there isn't conflict. We can only go a certain length of time with peace. Once we reach a certain point, it's like she has to find something to be offended about and cause drama.

Not taking what she does personally is very hard. I'm so tired of this. It's been the same thing my whole life. I'm tired of having to appease her or tip toe around her. I realize now that I should have responded to her last message to me using S.E.T. instead of not responding. I read a post last night that makes me realize she probably feels abandoned. Now I have no idea how to initiate communication again because I know what her response will be, and I dread it. I am angry that I have to be the one to try to now make things right...again. It's the same song and dance.

[Notwendy]

I think if you look at what you feel you should do according to your own feelings, it will help you to decide to reach out to her or not, or when.

I try to base my own actions on that, not how my mother will feel or respond, because I can't control her feelings or reactions.

I don't think it's possible to make things "right" - our relationship is disordered. She is who she is. I think probably the best I can do is my best effort- while also having my own boundaries.

I haven't heard from my mother in over a week now since the not letting the nurses speak to me and reversing that. She alternates between this kind of thing and then reversing it. She did it after my father passed away, redid her legal papers and wrote me out, then redid them again. I assume she will eventually contact me- and when she does, it will be as if nothing happened.

The silent treatment is uncomfortable for us, because it was scary as a child to have a parent do this. Truly, you are going to be fine whether your mother speaks to you or not. Consider that she too, has responsibility for this relationship. You don't have to be the one to "make things right". What if she decides to not speak to you ever again? My mother will react to a disagreement as if it was the crime of the century- and then, eventually, get over it. Yours probably will too but if she didn't- then that is her choice.

[Teach21]

Thank you, Notwendy! You always give good advice and perspective.