Therapy for kids

[CravingPeace]

We are currently going through divorce.
I have an appointment to brief a therapist before play therapy starts for the kids.
It was booked by my stbXW , and I am obviously fully supportive. Obviously my stbXW will also have this opportunity to brief the therapist.

Not looking to dish the dirt, but I am already getting false allegations directed at me, and finding out lies are being passed on to friends. What is the best method I brief the therapist to help the children while being balanced and fair? Just be open and honest about the Divorce and some of my concerns? I don't particularly want to be seen as the problem if they are given a fake briefing and somehow unfairly influence the children. I just want them to be helped.

[EyesUp]

This topic has been front and center for me as I've gone through divorce over the past ~3 years years.

In my situation, disparagement started with our oldest, then D13, along with mutual contacts, neighbors, providers, and of course with my uBPDxw's friends and family.

My general MO has been to ignore, ignore, ignore - remain beyond reproach - and only address the most egregious instances with providers with courtesy and kindness.

On one hand, the kids' therapists, teachers, counselors, doctors, and others have generally acknowledged the disparagement and continued to work directly with me without issue.

On the other hand, the dynamic with D13, now D16, has deteriorated and she's invested in her mom's narrative and increasingly sees me in a negative light.  D16's attitudes are effecting her younger sisters, D13 and D9, to varying degrees.

Which is to say:  I'm not exactly the model of success if you're looking for a silver bullet or an easy way to neutralize this dynamic.  I'm not sure such a thing exists. If lucky, your ex may not exhibit the worst of the worst behaviors.

When I was first confronting the situation, I found Warshak's Divorce Poison somewhat helpful.  https://warshak.com/divorce-poison/index.html

I say somewhat, because he often says "take action" but then fails to say what action to take in a tangible, actionable way.  Still, he effectively frames the dynamic and outlines the patterns in an accessible way - which is itself somewhat validating.

Since I've been able to maintain positive engagement with our kids' various providers, what I will say is:  Try to do more listening than talking.  Do not unload or explain *your* situation - these people are there for your kids.  Do consider short, concise, solution-oriented statements.  e.g., "I'm aware that the kids' mom may have made disparaging comments about me to some of our providers, and I would not be surprised if you hear the same. My only concern is our kids' success and well-being. If you have any concerns, at any time, please do not hesitate to contact me"

This might follow the initial intake and meetings, once the provider is becoming established with your kids.  I would avoid this at an initial meeting.  Again, take pains to avoid making it about you - the kids always come first with providers.

Hang in there.

[ForeverDad]

Not looking to dish the dirt, but I am already getting false allegations directed at me, and finding out lies are being passed on to friends. What is the best method I brief the therapist to help the children while being balanced and fair? Just be open and honest about the Divorce and some of my concerns?

If your ex has booked the therapist then, considering she's making allegations of some sort, could she be trying to gain a negative advocate?  Be aware, beware.

I've noticed our members, as reasonably normal people, are quite high on the "I try to be fair" spectrum.  That's great in typical scenarios.  However, we don't want to be "too" fair in our BPD situations.  For example, we may be inclined to be fair and say, "she's a good mother".  Maybe she does feed and clothe them.  Fine, but what about all the other parenting behaviors, the real reason the kids are getting play therapy?  Do you see the point?  A parent with Borderline traits is *not* a good mother overall.

[PeteWitsend]

We are currently going through divorce.
I have an appointment to brief a therapist before play therapy starts for the kids.
It was booked by my stbXW , and I am obviously fully supportive. Obviously my stbXW will also have this opportunity to brief the therapist.

Not looking to dish the dirt, but I am already getting false allegations directed at me, and finding out lies are being passed on to friends. What is the best method I brief the therapist to help the children while being balanced and fair? Just be open and honest about the Divorce and some of my concerns? I don't particularly want to be seen as the problem if they are given a fake briefing and somehow unfairly influence the children. I just want them to be helped.

Okay, one thing I pushed for regarding therapy that I'm glad I did was have my attorney provide a trusted child psychologist to vet a list of potential psychologists/therapists that we then let BPDxw choose from.

I was concerned, knowing her penchant for "forum shopping" for a therapist she can control.

In the event, we ended up with a good guy.  And once BPDxw realized she could not weaponize him against me, she sent me a message saying our D was fine and the therapy was a waste of time. 

I kept taking my daughter, and I'm glad I did because I found out about issues I otherwise wouldn't have.

Be aware though that therapists retire and try to get some sort of succession language written into your order.

[CravingPeace]

Thanks, as with everything I am stuck on what to say.

The fact she is wanting to take them to therapy shows she cares.

 However I already found one complete lie that was opposite to reality given to one friend, that the friend fed back to me. So I doubt that is an isolated incident. She has so far spoken to 6 or 7 attorneys by my reconning. So definitely think the "forum shopping" is going on there. She doesn't really like reality, not the real one. She likes her own one, and her own truth.

It's really hard when mutual friends reach out and say sorry to hear what we are going through. I don't know whether to thank them and explain they may be hearing things about me that are not true. Or say nothing, and just thank them. I don't know what she is saying about me to a lot of people, just the odd incident reported to me.

[CravingPeace]

Also I feel like a complete b i*ch if I say what is actually going on, as it's not nice stuff she does. I almost feel like it makes me look bad to dish the dirt! So I tend to keep it to myself, meanwhile knowing lies are being spread hurts.

[livednlearned]

I agree it's always better to vet the therapist so that you're working with a list provided by third-party professionals if possible.

You'll be threading a needle and language will matter. It's important to remember that pwBPD tend to be fish in water when it comes to drama triangles. You want to avoid falling into any traps and that's hard when there's an actual triangle (therapist, parent, parent).

You might find Dr. Craig Childress's work to be helpful especially given how much coverage he gives to what many therapists do right/wrong when it comes to alienation behaviors.

This isn't quite what you're looking for but it may help you avoid some common language issues:

https://drcachildress-consulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Ju-jitsu-Parenting-Fighting-Back-from-the-Down-Position-Childress-2013.pdf

I would research the therapist very carefully. Look at credentials, school, specialty, experience, etc.

Like PeteWitsend mentioned, it's pretty common practice for high-conflict couples to work with a court-approved list of psychologists known to family court.

[livednlearned]

The fact she is wanting to take them to therapy shows she cares.

If she is a high-conflict personality it can also mean that she is smart.

Like ForeverDad mentioned, she may be shopping for a negative advocate.

It's important to research this person and know what you're getting into.

And it's good that neither of you have had your brief yet.

[PeteWitsend]

Also I feel like a complete b i*ch if I say what is actually going on, as it's not nice stuff she does. I almost feel like it makes me look bad to dish the dirt! So I tend to keep it to myself, meanwhile knowing lies are being spread hurts.

I took the approach of not saying anything.  I feel like most reasonable people figure out what's going on themselves, & form their own judgments.  If you go around complaining about your ex, asking what she's saying about you, etc. it just makes you look bad. 

There will, of course be some people that are fooled by the pwBPD, but how you want to handle that is up to you. 

If given actual false information, I figured I would refute it forcefully, and make it clear I wasn't going to let others spread it, but otherwise not get into it. 

In any event, we had so few mutual acquaintances that it almost never came up, and when it did, the couple in question both told me they couldn't stand my ex, and figured out right away she was a nightmare. 

In the few other cases I've interacted with people who knew us both, they were friendly to me and polite, so it never came up.  Most people are tactful enough to know not to get involved. 

[ForeverDad]

She has so far spoken to 6 or 7 attorneys by my reckoning. So definitely think the "forum shopping" is going on there.

That's possible, even likely.  However, there is another downside.  Be aware that all those she interviews may decline to let you hire them since she might have shared privileged and confidential details with them.  That could shrink the pool of local attorneys you have available for yourself.

[kells76]

To fill out the important point that FD raises:

Be aware that all those she interviews may decline to let you hire them since she might have shared privileged and confidential details with them.  That could shrink the pool of local attorneys you have available for yourself.

in our situation, when I called up a few local L's, they asked right away for the names of the other involved parties -- before I'd described our situation. So even if she doesn't share anything with the L's she's (allegedly) calling up, the mere fact that she called them means they likely asked for your name and can't work with you.

It's not a bad idea for you to call around to a handful of recommended L's yourself -- not just as a "blocking" move, but to make sure that if you need one, you have a pool of reputable L's to choose from. The calls don't have to take long, a lunch break or two will probably do it.

We like to think that "being reasonable" is how things work in the legal world but it is not.

[CravingPeace]

Thanks Pete yes I think its best not to say anything unless to my closest friends who know everything anyway.

In terms of lawyers she can interview as many as she wants, I already paid a retainer and filed. But thanks all for the concern.

[CravingPeace]

So I had the briefing call with the therapist. She made it clear she is a mandatory reporter. It does worry me if my wife manages to wral her around her little finger with false allegations how to protect myself.

It is obviously a nice way a manipulative person could use a professional to cause me issues with false allegations!

I hope I am just being paranoid

[ForeverDad]

If you filed for divorce because you decided the relationship had filed, then that is a positive indication that you're not actually a controller.  If you want out, you can't "control".

If your spouse hasn't made prior complaints or allegations in some 8-9 years of marriage, but only is threatening to make them now that you are exiting, that weakens the other's allegations.  If they were that serious to be "reportable", then your spouse should have done so long ago.  Doing so now, with a divorce in the works, makes the timing suspiciously self-serving.

If this is a new professional you both are meeting, then the professional will have no background on either of you and may proceed cautiously since allegations are not uncommon in the midst of a divorce.

That said, a mandated reporter will report something that rises to the level of being actionable.  It would be more as passing along information for the appropriate agency to investigate.  Not much you can do except to protect yourself as best you can.