S.E.T Communication is triggering for my pwBPD.

[SaltyDawg]

SET Communications is advocated as good way to de-escalate conflict with a borderline as it is featured in their workshop

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.30
   
1.16 | Communicate - S.E.T. (Support, Empathy and Truth)

which has the video contained in the 2nd item of the TOOLS menu on this webpage

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict

This video has the S.E.T. tool in it, and strongly implies that this is the easiest way to reduce conflict.

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Yesterday, I was able to have the most insightful conversation to date with my pwBPD, who is my wife, about her borderline traits. We were working through a couple's therapy workbook by ourselves she was able to clearly articulate the following of self-awareness regarding her behaviors.

   She acknowledged that her "behaviors in the past were like a 3-year old throwing a temper tantrum. I [she] now recognize that and will [strive to] not do them anymore".

This is the first time she has, in effect, told me that she is self-aware of having the emotional coping skills of a toddler, which is in line with a pwBPD traits as mentioned multiple times here an in many different books/videos/etc. on the topic. When I heard those words from my wife's lips - at that moment, I knew she now had full awareness of her situation - even though she was still in denial of having any mental health condition.

I so much wanted to celebrate and congratulate her on her epiphany of self-awareness; however, I had to push that inside of me, and continue to actively listen to her.

Then our workbook session shifted to how I am now communicating with her during conflicts. I indicated that I am now using a modified version of SET, that I figured out through trial and error, along with some professional help and sources for myself of "Support, Empathy, and Validation" using a scientific methodology that is well proven and documented in reducing emotional crisis and conflict.

While still on the topic, my wife was then was able to express to me that my previous communication style was very triggering and invalidating to her, as she complained how I would frequently ask her to support her feelings with facts, and I in return would list facts, using "I" statements, that would not match her feelings - that particular aspect stood out for her, and that is the "T" in S.E.T. communications. Mind you, this is the first time I am hearing this from her, and I was using it from the fall of 2022 through the fall of 2023.

For example she often told me "you do nothing to support me/our family" and I would typically respond with a variation of "I do 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 right now, can you let me know what else I can do to support you?" This would either shut her down, as she would realize I was correct, and on a rare occasion she would tell me that I still don't do anything for her, and then I would indeed ask her to support her assertion with facts - and she couldn't other than some very generalized statements or she went off on a tangent on something I had already told her I wouldn't do - for this I said, "this is true, and I'm not willing to do _____". Sometimes I would give a logical reason, but most of the time I didn't as I knew it would trigger her even more. When the therapist would ask me this inside of a session, I told the therapist, "I will not validate the invalid" as it was almost always something invalid she wanted me to do for her for which I said 'no' to. I knew this frustrated her; however, at the time, this was the only way I knew how to shut down her distorted and/or false narrative from my perspective. More often than not, I would engage only within couple's therapy, where the therapist would be the referee in this matter, and my wife does not like this, as her version of the truth would be scrutinized, as mine would be too.

My version of the Truth, supported by facts was for the most part, was in alignment with reality. Whereas, her version of the truth, which she adamantly believed, was not in alignment with the facts which in turn did not match her feelings - and she felt as though I was calling her out on it in a manner where she perceived I was calling a "liar" each and every time I used the "T"ruth portion of S.E.T. communication usually as an observation with "I" statements that was less confrontational. This was very unsettling for my wife, and it triggered her to the point of being defensive and lashing out, and was not really productive in 'one to one' interactions with my wife as she was unwilling to budge from her feelings of her version, or perspective, of the 'truth'.

To me, this just validated my own opinion that she was extremely irrational and disordered as the facts from my wife's perspective could rarely match her feelings AND she could not see this, whereas for me, and to the therapists it was very obvious. This 'dance' went on for about a year where I was using SET Communication, "I" statements, DEARMAN, BIFF,  do not JADE, & other techniques in the workshops contained within this site with little to no positive effect on my individual interactions with my wife, even though they were effective inside of couple's therapy; outside of therapy, they were not.

Personally, I still recommend using SET communication within the setting of "couple's therapy," as this allowed the therapist to challenge my wife on what is real and what was imagined to be in alignment with her feelings. While my wife was triggered by this, she was able to process the information when presented using SET by the therapist, but not me as I was still being painted black at that time in her more persistent emotional splitting on me.

However, if you find that SET communication is NOT working with your pwBPD, I would then suggest trying the modified version of SET and avoid the "T" in order to stop making things worse, so they can get better.

During the course of our conversation yesterday on the communication technique, SET, that she was criticising me for, she suggested (I suspect she got this from her own individual therapist) instead of using 'Facts' or 'Truth' we should use 'Differing Perspectives' which I thought was absolutely brilliant of her for having that self-realization as well.

I agreed with her, as that was an accurate statement, her perspective is based on her feelings; whereas, my perspective is based in facts (Truth).

In the future, when I do the "T" portion of the SET communication skill, it will be modified to 'my perspective' when done in front of the couple's therapist in order to be less triggering for my wife. I'm sure the therapist will read between the lines, as all of her non-verbals have been in alignment for treating BPD for the past year+ even if it is not verbally expressed after my wife was fully dysregulated in a borderline manner across two sessions.

----

Circling back to the couple's workbook exercise, we were to analyse the last conflict we had. Serendipitously, the night before, my wife had a minor lapse, this time with our 12 year old son in which she tried her best to rope me into the drama triangle.

For the most part I did things by the textbook even though for a brief minute I did indirectly lash out in a cool and calm voice at her and him too for what had transpired for the previous 20-30 minutes.

A little bit of a back story, my wife was in preliminary remission of BPD symptoms until this fight with our son where she exhibited the symptom of "inappropriately intense anger or problems controlling anger" combined with "rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days" where she lost it on our son with a full blown shouting match for ~20 minutes. Last week, my wife's company laid off about 20% of its workforce, including my wife's 'scapegoat', the person at her work with whom she has placed blame (warranted and unwarranted) of all of her work-place woes - this means she needed to step up to the plate and 'own' her own behaviors and actions - this put a lot of additional stress on my wife, so I was hypervigilant to my wife's behaviors at home, as I wanted to see how a real-life stressor would affect her [yes, I was analyzing her]. Well, it resulted in a brief lapse (not a relapse) of her BPD symptoms, and this will reset the clock in my mind on her 'remission' status for recovery to July 1st instead of January 17th when she had her last full lapse of a BPD episode against our daughter.

While I was monitoring the altercation between my wife and son (listening through the wall), and I would have interceded if it became physical - my son eventually did find me and asked to intercede on his behalf as my wife would not relent after my son tried all of his tools to 'calm mom down' failed. At this point I interceded, as soon as I entered the room, my wife immediately stopped yelling, as she knows I will not tolerate it from my previously set boundaries I have created in the previous year+. Her body language indicated to me she knew she messed up, and was unsure how I was going to handle it. I did the minimum interaction in order to stabilize the situation, I addressed the safety issues (exit was blocked), made a few negative statements specific to the situation on how this should not have happened to both of them, and why this should not have happened, indicating my displeasure with the situation as though both of them were small children, and walked away after both had a few moments to collect themselves on the matter. My wife tried to draw me in to the situation, and back her position up, which I did to a limited extent validating some of her concerns, I also validated some of my son's concerns as well at the same time - in essence I was engaged in the conflict as the referee. I know I shouldn't have affix limited amounts of blame to each, but I did as I was frustrated as my wife had a lapse and my son's behavior only fueled my wife's anger instead of calming it down, so I did do a brief JADE on both of them using "I" statements I explained my feelings that indirectly blamed and explained to each of them for their respective parts of the reasons why they got into that hot mess to begin with. I indicated my disappointment in each of them, and then stood aside while they picked up the mess they had created and then they went to their respective rooms in silence.

About a half hour later, the time my son takes to reset from his bpd-like symptom/trait, they made up, and went to bed together (something else we are trying to wean them off from to address my son's own fear of abandonment). As it gave both of them comfort, I looked the other way. When addressed the following day, the time it takes my wife to reset to baseline, my wife said she 'tucked him in at his request' - I didn't contradict her with what I saw [I choose my battles carefully] as both of them were in a state of crisis less than an hour prior.

As long as mom is regulated, so is my son for the most part. Unfortunately they are enmeshed in this manner, and I've been working with my own therapist on strategies to slowly wean him off these behaviors. My son follows my wife's lead on most behaviors, including anger, so I am working with my wife on managing hers which in turn will allow him to manage his. It's indirect, but he refuses to see his own therapist, as his therapist will no longer do 'play therapy' - he was getting too rough on the play part, so together with my therapist (his therapist's supervisor) we have come up with strategies to do what is best for my son given the current state of his willingness to do therapy.

In case you are wondering why it took me 20 minutes to intervene. I could see how this is interpreted negatively by some on my part; however, knowing how my wife behaves, much like a parent lets a child do something they were told not to do, so they could learn from her own behaviors, she needed to learn from her own natural consequences to her own bad behaviors. While this is a setback for both of them in the short term. I feel that both of them will learn from their mistakes much more readily and grow to not to make them again in the future, so I allowed them to make their own mistakes so they could learn from the 'school of hard knocks'. A year ago, I would have intervened in a heartbeat, and that would have only made the situation worse, as I would have become the object of blame for both of them.

Instead, two days ago, I was the 'rescuerer' for both of them in the drama triangle, where each of them took turns being the persecutor and victim as they argued between themselves over a minor incident that caused a shelving system to collapse and dump its contents everywhere.

This was a lapse for my wife, for me it was high conflict management skills being put to the test, and it will be addressed in couple's therapy next week as we go over the homework assignment, and then I intend on letting this incident go as a 'learning lesson' for all concerned and hopefully we will not circle back to it unless she brings it up. This way I can briefly hold her accountable for her actions and responses, and for my contributions too, and then we can forgive and forget and move forward towards recovery together.

After that incident, I let my wife reset overnight to baseline and we discussed it the following day (yesterday) like a normal couple would - this is new territory for me as we have only been doing this for a short while starting this year. There was no anger, no yelling, no hurt feelings, etc. I used Support, Empathy, and Validation while talking about it to her, and we did a deep dive on it as that was serendipitously (dumb luck for a coincidental conflict that directly addressed the homework assignment - perhaps our higher power touched us to let this happen to us as everything seems to happen for a reason that coincides with what I am addressing inside of my own therapy) to be incorporated in our couple's therapy.

My wife did bring up a list of 'facts' of the incident, for the most part they were true, and I validated those, and there were a few that were distorted, surrounding our son's interaction (tucking vs sleep with AND son seeking me to intervene vs being sent out to get me) to which I agreed we had a differing perspective. My wife did note I had written she had a 'rage' lapse on my therapy notepad, and protested this as she did not hit or damage anything and only yelled. I agreed it was not a rage, scratched the word out, and replaced it with 'yelling'. I had also written several pages of notes to the workbook's questions, and she accused me saying everything I had written was about her ["Temporary paranoid thoughts ... triggered by stress"], so I showed her, only two lines of 150+ lines, were describing her behaviors in the conflict, the rest were "I" statements. Even though she was upset about the word "rage" she was pleasantly surprised I had only written very little of her bad behavior, and what I did write was factual, and what she perceived as distorted, I did correct it for her. We have different perceptions of what a rage is - for me it is uncontrolled dysregulated yelling at someone, for her it also 'must' involve physical violence against others and/or objects; however, for me this the word 'must' can be replaced with 'may' or 'might' - I can agree with my wife that this is a matter of 'perspective'.

To summarize, my wife likes to be validated and supported with empathy, & finds the 'truth' to be very triggering for her in SET communication.  I had to find a different communication technique that worked, and I am sharing what is working in my situation in hope that it may help others as well.

Take care.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[thankful person]

Hi SD,

Thanks for the update, I always find your contributions insightful and interesting. Just thought I would share my own experience as you know I’ve been working on this for several years with varying levels of success. My wife sometimes responds well to SET. However it is not always effective because sometimes it calms her to feel that I sympathise and understand… but other times she thinks (and accuses me of) lying. I actually found the T aspect useful in a different way though. Because SET is often brought in during a dispute then of course she can choose to disagree with my “truth” as you mentioned. But what it meant was that whilst generally not engaging in JADE, I allowed myself that one sentence where I would stand up for myself and tell her, “if you did say that then I wouldn’t have acknowledged it, because I never heard you say it”. (You can imagine our house is somewhat noisy too haha). So anyway the way it helped was because i present to state the facts in a sentence and then made it clear that I had nothing more to say and this helped to stop these conversations and disputes going on and on and round in circle for hours on end. We really can remove the fuel from the fire to some extent.

[SaltyDawg]

[...] other times she thinks (and accuses me of) lying. [...]

I actually found the T aspect useful in a different way though. Because SET is often brought in during a dispute then of course she can choose to disagree with my “truth” as you mentioned. But what it meant was that whilst generally not engaging in JADE, I allowed myself that one sentence where I would stand up for myself and tell her, “if you did say that then I wouldn’t have acknowledged it, because I never heard you say it”. (You can imagine our house is somewhat noisy too haha). So anyway the way it helped was because i present to state the facts in a sentence and then made it clear that I had nothing more to say and this helped to stop these conversations and disputes going on and on and round in circle for hours on end. We really can remove the fuel from the fire to some extent.

I hear you, and agree with you about the portion where you are standing up for yourself with your truth - to me that has become a given that I know what the truth is, so I will no longer argue why her version of the truth actually isn't the truth - I do not see a need to argue with her on what the actual truth is, so I am no longer bothered with which perspective is actually 'true' when I know in my mind, without any doubt, which version is indeed the truth. 

When I was using SET, that was one also of the reasons why I did it too, at that time, so I could demonstrate on my terms that she was [unintentionally] gaslighting me with her version of her truth, that she actually believed in as she would create her version of facts in her mind in order to match her exaggerated feelings at the moment.  I too used it to stop/reduce the circular arguments, and a lot of the time when I spoke of my truth by telling her "I am doing 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. what else can I do for you" would often put her at a disadvantage, since she knew 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. was true, by using SET, in the manner I did using "I" statements for my 'Truth' - I intentionally created a cognitive dissonance in her mind so she could hopefully/possibly process why her feelings do not match the facts so I did not have to outright say her version of the truth was a lie, even though she felt that way.  Using "I" statements is much more subtle and indirect way to influence and persuade your pwBPD - it eventually worked for me, but took more than a year to do so after I no longer focused on the "T". 

I will share for the benefit of others, for me, when I started to confront my wife on the truth of the matter using "I" statements on my version of the truth, Initially, I had to use audio recordings of my wife, at least first, to really process in my mind that she was gaslighting me - it took me listening to those recordings for me to actually process that she was actually gaslighting me, as at one point, a little more than two years ago, I believed her gaslighting, as the couple's therapist at that time was backing my wife's version of events up as well with her countertransference - talk about getting your mind being messed with.

I now have a much stronger sense of self, and I am able hold my own version of the truth with little to no effort; whereas, a couple of years ago it was extremely difficult going up against being gaslit by both my pwBPD and our previous couple's therapist.  Our previous couple's therapist fired us, after I started to push back against her narrative too when it became painfully evident (and embarrassing) to the previous couple's therapist that my wife was the one with the issue, and not so much me.  This therapist left me with several parting gifts to me on how to proceed forward... and I used all of them... and then some to influence and persuade my wife into a meaningful recovery.

I will share that I had to use trial and error on each and every tool to tweak them in a manner that was most effective for my pwBPD.  Do what is right for you, in your particular situation.

Shifting from SET Communications to a version Support, Empathy, and Validation without focusing on the Truth in a crisis management mode was the game changer for my wife's relationship with me.

Take care.

[Skip]

Can you give us a real life example of a communication you had with her using set - specifically the situation and what was your actual S, E, and T statements that failed? How did she react?

[SaltyDawg]

Sure...

I thought I already did so; however, it would appear that I gave an abbreviated answer of the Truth portion only, so I will expand on it... with the support and empathy portions added.

For example she often told me "you do nothing to support me/our family" and I would typically respond with a variation of "I do 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 right now, can you let me know what else I can do to support you?" This would either shut her down, as she would realize I was correct, and on a rare occasion she would tell me that I still don't do anything for her, and then I would indeed ask her to support her assertion with facts - and she couldn't other than some very generalized statements or she went off on a tangent on something I had already told her I wouldn't do - for this I said, "this is true, and I'm not willing to do _____".

A very common theme for her was that I didn't do enough for her, I wasn't there for her, I didn't do anything for the family - a manifestation of the emptiness symptom where no matter what I tried, I could not satisfy her and prior to this I did label her as 'unsatisfiable' when she expressed this to me in front of the couple's therapist. 

A minor manifestation of this symptom even happened yesterday, where she accused me of not being there for the family, as I was consumed by preparing a legal statement for a local government hearing - a somewhat legitimate complaint on her part, even though I was doing quite a bit of her honey do list for her; however, it was not complete when I took a break and she freaked out a little that I would not be able to finish it before sunset, which was 3 hours away.  For a short while she was a bit upset; however, she was able to process this as I reassured her that sunset was 3 hours away, and I would resume it in 1-2 hours, as I had only 45 minutes left on the 'mowing the lawn' chore.  I did have to use some tools to delicately explain my behaviors and had to apologize for my statement as it took a lot longer than planned by taking ownership of it [a valid complaint of me by her], and I had to re-arrange the chore list to accommodate it, and I reassured her that I was indeed there for her and our family, this calmed her down and smoothed things over by validating her feelings in this matter when she felt heard - active listening is very important.

Circling back to your questions.  When I first tried SET, I would say something along the lines of "Name, I hear you [support], and this upsets you [empathy]; however, I do 1, 2, 3 for you [truth]" - this would upset her as I was very brief as I was being flooded and it was hard to talk to her between her verbal vomit on how I didn't do anything for her, and I really didn't really have too much in the way of active listening skills at that time.  Looking at this now, I can see how invalidating this was as it was a 'canned' answer for her, as our previous couple's therapist used it a lot on both of us [I know I felt patronized by the CT], and this really upset her to the point of arguing with me even more and the argument very quickly became circular - I was a bit overwhelmed by my wife's responses initially by using SET.

Also, since the truth was the last thing I spoke of, my version of truth is what she focused on briefly until she came back at me with her version of the Truth and argued about this, it did not solve anything, and if anything it made it worse, as she would go around in circles as I refused to validate the invalid, her version of the truth [if I did validate, then she would smear her false narrative in my face continually as I would have had admitted to a false statement], until I stopped it by mindfully pausing it even though I used a different term for it with our couple's therapist.

What you see above in the quote is how I initially handled saying my version of the [truth] followed by support for the better part of a year by putting the [support] at the end and framing it as a question to her, in order to put my wife in control, so my wife would have to articulate her request in a manner she wanted that I would be able to respond to instead of blasting me with whatever intense irrational feeling she was having at that moment in time.  Framing it in the manner was intended to distract her from her cognitive dissonance - this was suggested by my individual therapist as the other way was not working at all.  When I adjusted the SET communication to ETS at the recommendation of my individual therapist - it still had all the components of SET, just in a different order.  It worked better than SET; however, it was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, as it shut down my wife, as she really didn't know how to respond to that question of how I could support her, on her terms, as I had previously stated the truth, she knew it was true logically, but not emotionally, and she was given control on how I would proceed as I was asking a question on how to support her.

She indicated whenever I mentioned the truths of 1, 2, 3, 4, ... that would upset her, as it produced a cognitive dissonance in her [irrationally] as it did not match her version of facts and she thought I was calling her a LIAR, as my version of 1, 2, 3, 4, ... was not true in her mind, yet when she looked at what I had done it was true - her wise mind, at that time could not connect the dots and process this. 

...there is more to this story...

[Skip]

When I first tried SET, I would say something along the lines of

 "Name, I hear you [support], and this upsets you [empathy]; however, I do 1, 2, 3 for you [truth]"

There is more to SET than "I hear you, and this upsets you; however, ________"

Here is an example response to this thread in SET.

This is a support statement to you:

What you describe makes perfect sense. Casting “your truth” as your perspective and leaving room to fully hear and let your wife know you are listening to her perspective and open to what she wants/feels is very constructive.

And here is an empathy statement:

It is advanced thinking to read about different psychological tools and approaches and then assimilate them into your personal style. This makes them more authentic to others. I think observing how your wife responds to your use of skills and adjusting your approach based on what resonates best with her is also a characteristic of a higher level of emotional intelligence.

And a truth statement:

Perhaps the reason SET didn't work for you is because your support and empathy statements were not deep enough to touch her.

[Turkish]

.Circling back to your questions.  When I first tried SET, I would say something along the lines of "Name, I hear you [support], and this upsets you [empathy]; however, I do 1, 2, 3 for you [truth]" - this would upset her as I was very brief as I was being flooded and it was hard to talk to her between her verbal vomit on how I didn't do anything for her, and I really didn't really have too much in the way of active listening skills at that time.  Looking at this now, I can see how invalidating this was as it was a 'canned' answer for  her

That isn't Truth in the rubric of SET, it's JADE and invalidating.

[SaltyDawg]

That isn't Truth in the rubric of SET, it's JADE and invalidating.

Turkish,

I think you hit the nail on the head.  You are absolutely correct, I agree with you completely, it is a version of JADE using supposedly less triggering "I" statements especially as our former couple's therapist (cT), an eclectic DBT specialist, modelled this a bit, three years ago before I even landed here, and I definitely felt she was patronizing towards me when she did this to me, and at that point, I wasn't even aware of my wife's BPD.  This cT also did this to my wife as well.  So, when I was trying what was modelled on me (and my wife too) with my wife initially with my wife, it wasn't working, and actually made it worse.  At the time, I would generally not response to a false statement directed at me as I was definitely 'non-confrontational' with my wife; however, I did want to engage and have this false perception of me corrected.

I then asked my new individual therapist (iT), at that time, what I could change to make it better, and we did some role playing on how to improve SET communication, as I understood it at the time. 

Going back to the example when accused of doing 'nothing' (nothing for the family, nothing for me, doing nothing around the house, etc).  So, at that time the iT felt it was important to articulate that I wasn't doing nothing, so she had me rearrange the sequence of SET, to end with a list of items I did do (even though this was JADE using "I" statements as it contradicted her version of the truth ["I did nothing"]) and it it with a questions of "What else would you like for me to do? [on top of the things I have already listed]".

Before, my iT and I turned it around to a question towards what I could do for her [a question expressing Support]. 

Before we got to that version, prior to that, my iT had me ask my wife the following question (or variation thereof) - "Can you support your statement(s) [where I do nothing, an invalid statement] with examples [facts in order to validate her invalid statement] that I have done or haven't done that supports your feelings?"  I can tell you from experience with my wife, that this too doesn't work, as it too is a version of JADE.  Most of the time, she couldn't come up with anything, and if she did, it was usually and item to which I previously told her "no" to, like extreme servitude.  I am willing to do 20-40 hours of acts of service per week for my wife; however, I am not willing to do every waking moment - that is an unrealistic expectation of entitlement on her part, and I would push-back on that as doing that had already negatively impacted my health, both mental and physical.  However, I was willing to compromise with her, on what those acts of service would look like - which later morphed into a transactional model specific to my situation, as reciprocity needs to be somewhat near equal (1:1) and not as lopsided as it was (>100:1) back then - it is fairly close to being 1:1 now after two years of therapy for me.

I was working on multiple facets with my iT on how to manage the relationship, not just SET communication.

I was told both by my iT,  here and elsewhere, to "never validate the invalid."  Before I learned of that concept, I did try validating the invalid, and it was a complete disaster from my perspective.  Here is why:  I would falsely admit to one of my wife's 'false statements' just to get her to 'shut up' about it from her current flooding irrational argumentative statements.  Then my wife perceived her truth as being validated, file it away until the next time, and would weaponize my false admission by rubbing my 'false admission' in my face as my 'truth' each and every time she felt I was doing nothing or something else she didn't like - in essence it made a bad situation of being accused of a false statement that I had previously admitted to under a coercive rage, where she made it much worse where she would throw it in my face, you previous admitted to doing this, so it must be true - argument.

This is why I will never again, validate the invalid, her irrational perspective of the truth based solely on her feelings, and has little to no basis in fact(s) - as that is why I was directed to ask that very triggering to my question by my own iT.

So, my question to you, Turkish & Skip, can you give specific examples of what the "Truth" might look like from each of your perspectives in SET communication, as trained and licensed therapists appear to not be able to work with me on this with respect to falsely being accused of doing nothing, when there is an extensive list that could prove, to a rational person, otherwise?

When a person is irrational, who believes their irrational feelings as truthful facts - how do you present the actual truth as it is not even on their perception scale at that time?  Our current cT, when she first started with us, would call my wife out, stating "you are not being rational" which my wife didn't even register, by that time, my wife had checked out mentally, and no additional progress could be made. 

Due to this therapeutic dynamic, more often than not, I would usually would delay talking about the more triggering issues towards the 2nd half of the session, and usually let my wife talk about her issues with me at the beginning and was baseline rational and could actually process what was being said.  I did this for several reasons - so she could be heard, and felt as though she was heard.  I did this so she could give her versions of events to the cT for a particular incident or series of incidents - no matter how far out there they were - I wanted the cT to hear my wife's version of events.  When it became my turn, I would say, "I don't quite remember it that way..." and then, using I statements, I would juxtapose my truth against hers, and let the cT discern what actually transpired and tease out a solution usually for my wife.

Once my wife's mind snaps (less than a second to go from rational thoughts to irrational and stays there until she re-regulates, usually after a sleep cycle or two), or becomes triggered and irrational, there is absolutely no reasoning with her at all especially when it comes to facts.  I am rather fortunate that my wife did this inside of a few sessions, so the cT could actually see real-time and real-life examples of what I was dealing with, which validated my perspective, and allowed a greater understanding for the cT of what she was actually dealing with and communicate with my wife's iT.

There is more to SET than "I hear you, and this upsets you; however, ________"

I agree, even though this is how I started using it, after it was modelled by a cT and was unaware of that at the time that it involved a bit more than just that.

Here is an example response to this thread in SET.

This is a support statement to you:

What you describe makes perfect sense. Casting “your truth” as your perspective and leaving room to fully hear and let your wife know you are listening to her perspective and open to what she wants/feels is very constructive.

The support statement has morphed into what I feel is a better question upon the suggestion of my iT, "What can I do to support you on [whatever topic she is complaining about]?"

My support statement may have been an issue in 2022, I feel it hasn't been since I learned how to ask her how I can support her.  If you have any better ideas, I would love to hear them?

And here is an empathy statement:

It is advanced thinking to read about different psychological tools and approaches and then assimilate them into your personal style. This makes them more authentic to others. I think observing how your wife responds to your use of skills and adjusting your approach based on what resonates best with her is also a characteristic of a higher level of emotional intelligence.

Initially, I was not advanced, my brain was literally in a FOG and could not see clearly.  While this might have been an issue in 2022, and early 2023, it is not now.

I will not reflect back her feelings, using different words, using exaggerated adjectives, as that is how pwBPD feel in relative to our own perceived reality.

I am also open to more suggestions on how I might be able to better express empathy towards my wife. 

And a truth statement:

Can you give an example on how this might be done regarding the fairly common "you do nothing" accusation that my wife directs at me when she is triggered?

For my wife, I could sense she was heading towards the cliff of irrational thinking, where she would dysregulate, and there was absolutely no reasoning with her when her mind was dysregulated.  She could not process any rational thoughts when this happens, her perceptions consisted almost of pure raw emotional feelings that was nowhere close to reality

Perhaps the reason SET didn't work for you is because your support and empathy statements were not deep enough to touch her.

In 2022, I would have agreed with this assessment, they were not deep enough, they were canned from the modelling of our cT.  However, by 2023, both support and empathy were quite developed with the help of my iT and to a lesser extent some examples given here, and I still use them today (yesterday was the last time I used these, she is not up this morning, yet - they are not an issue, and I feel that they are being in the correct manner as I have role played these with my own iT).  Also, my wife has had absolutely no issue nor complaint within the past year - and she is hyper-sensitive to this.  Support and empathy is not the issue.  The "Truth" is the issue as she was able to articulate when she was baseline and rational.

Support and Empathy statements are more than likely - not the issue - the issue is "what is Truth?"  The issue was my wife's version of truth was based often on her feelings alone which more often than not had no basis in truth thus her truth is invalid.  I will not validate a false 'truth' - I did that briefly when I was first learning about SET - and that was a huge mistake on my part.  Whereas my version of truth was based on verifiable facts, and there is no way to connect to her perspective of the truth which often had no basis in facts to mine which is based almost exclusively on verifiable facts.

The solution, that I ultimately came up from a well established program and additional validation from my own iT, in addition validation for me from a very popular expert in the field BPD was to validate her feelings, and her feelings alone, no matter how irrational they might seem to me or any other outside observer.  Validating feelings are in essence empathy.

I know what the truth is, as recording devices (video and audio) helped me realize that my wife was being irrational, as did the cT, when she became exasperated with statements of "you're not being rational" which would validate my own observations of the truth. 

The solution that I am using is not to even mention the truth, as I cannot, and will not validate statements that are false.  I refuse to validate the invalid.  However, I will interact with my pwBPD in a manner consistent of validating her feelings - no matter how much they have distorted the facts that triggered her in the first place or how irrational her feelings might seem - they are her feelings, thus valid, no matter how 'out there' they are.

So, in my particular situation, the Truth has been replaced with Validation of her feelings, which is her truth, not mine.  So, I will now say some variation of the following.  She wants apologies, so I give them in the following manner:  "I am sorry my actions have caused you to feel as thought I am not doing anything for you.  I can see how you might think I am not doing anything and that is incredibly frustrating for you.  It is not my intent to make you feel that way.  What can I do for you?"   This has elements of Support, Validation, and Empathy.  While the Truth is alluded to, it is no longer specifically defined.  For my wife, this works, and she says, she feels 'heard'.

I part, I did incorporate some of what Forever Dad has repeatedly said throughout this site - Thank you, FD, for sharing on how to apologize to the pwBPD on how they feel without admitting to any false facts - it was extremely useful to me.

When responding, when she is triggered, I will now use 'exaggerations' to reflect back my perceptions of her feelings, which is her truth, even though it often has no basis in fact.  If she says she is upset with me, I will reflect back she is extremely upset with me; however, I will not specify why she is upset.  I was asked by our cT on why I won't specify why, and I told her point blank "I will not validate what I perceive to be invalid, I will only validate the valid - if it is valid, I will take ownership and admit to it".

While we were going through these growing pains of effective communication, I would have to repeat my validation of her feelings, especially when she said I was invalidating her feelings. 

Take for example:

Her, yelling:  "You are telling me that I am not feeling what I am feeling!"
Me, calmly stating:  "Your feelings are your own, and they are what they are, they are your feelings, I cannot and will not tell you what your feelings are as they are yours." 

Sometimes this would become a circular argument, and if it does I try to change the topic, or I will disengage.  There is no net benefit from arguing with someone who is irrational once we get to this point.

Hopefully this has given you some insight to my conundrum.   I will stop here before it becomes more of a circular argument on my part.

I would be very grateful on how to preset the "Truth" aspect of SET communication with specific examples of how it my be presented in the "you never..." scenario.  Support and Empathy, I feel as though these are no longer issues, even though they might have been at one point in time more than a year ago.

I do look forward to your responses.  I do agree that my version of the truth, even though they are based in facts, list examples of how I supported her; however, she perceives them as untrue, yet they are true as they have happened from my perspective, this was and is very triggering for my wife as it did not match her feelings.  As we are not to validate the invalid (false facts/truth) - dire consequences if we, that leaves no truth to be discussed, as the truths are completely contradictory, as each person has a completely different perspective on the same issue (different sides of the same coin), as my wife had the insight to share about this style of communication.

Thank you for your time and thoughts on this matter.

Take care.

[Notwendy]

One question I have is- is it necessary to present "truth" to someone with distordered thinking? After all, it's the distorted thinking that is the issue- and we can not change how someone thinks.

One idea is the "pink elephant" accusation. If someone were to accuse you of being a pink elephant, would you try to correct their thinking if they truly believed you are. Is that even possible?

Does their thinking this make it true? No, it doesn't change truth- you are a human, not an elephant and someone thinking that doesn't make it true.

Don't validate the invalid ventures into not JADEing. If something isn't true, then you have no need to defend it. In fact, defending it is a form of validating it. It brings attention to it. But if you are absolutely certain an accusation isn't true- there's nothing to defend.

This involves boundaries too. A boundary is knowing what we are, and what we aren't. If someone claims something about us, we can decide- is this true about me or not? If it's not true, then we don't have to defend it.

An accusation such as "you do nothing for me" is subjective and also not as far fetched as being accused of being an elephant- so it's harder to discern- is this me or not me. The "you aren't doing enough, or nothing" is also black and white thinking. You may have done 10/11 things but due to that one thing you didn't do- well that is nothing. Or the goalpost keeps changing and what you thought was 10/10 isn't anymore.

I think we want to be seen as the good person we are, but in the Karman triangle- if someone is in victim perspective, for them to do that, they are in "not enough" or "nothing" mode. I don't know if "truth" can change this but if you know your truth- that you did do XYZ for her and she says it's nothing- her saying it doesn't change the truth.

Sometimes SET can get though but sometimes it isn't possible if the person is upset or disregulated. It may be possible to do this later when they are calmer. Sometimes the accusation is just their feelings in the moment and they don't really mean it. Sometimes I have found it better to just listen and say less "I undersrand that it's upsetting to feel this way" and let it go for the moment.

[Skip]

So, my question to you, Turkish & Skip, can you give specific examples of what the "Truth" might look like from each of your perspectives in SET communication, as trained and licensed therapists appear to not be able to work with me on this with respect to falsely being accused of doing nothing, when there is an extensive list that could prove, to a rational person, otherwise?

Your focus seems to be on proving you are right. Shouldn't the focus be on resolving the conflict?

The first thing to do is write the S and E statements. Shift your energy to this task. This is fundamental.

Can you craft a real S E statement here so we can discuss it and then discuss the T. Write something that will reach her.

[Skip]

One question I have is- is it necessary to present "truth" to someone with distordered thinking? After all, it's the distorted thinking that is the issue- and we can not change how someone thinks.

It's one tool in the tool kit. There are situations where it works well and situations where another tool would be more appropriate.



Developing the skill is important. Knowing when to use it is equally important.

A screwdriver isn't much use on a nail.

[thankful person]

It’s also easy to get waylaid by our pwbpd’s accusing us of not supporting them or other such vague accusations. Where we feel in dealing with a regular person, it’s important to be “on the same page” understanding where each other are coming from etc, some of this is never going to work in quite the same way with a pwbpd. I have realised over the past few years that my bpd wife responds better to me generally when I am coming from a place of assured sanity and not buying into her drama. What I think is that much of time when she makes wild accusations then she is “trying to start an argument”. I put this in inverted commas because she doesn’t believe she is intentionally trying to start an argument, but it’s like there’s a little demon inside her messing with her head, telling her to say things that will then upset me and then she can accuse me of “trying to start an argument”. Validation works well, alongside one statement of “my” truth. Support and empathy are often rejected by w when she deems me to be “lying”, so they are sometimes pointless. But I find when I’m coming from a place of inner security I can usually put out the flames because her accusations don’t bother me. What I’m currently concerned about is how I’m going to cope with her behaviour getting worse when I go back to work, and how to cope if the accusations become constant and I start losing my self-assurance and sanity. Again,I intend to stay strong.

[kells76]

One question I have is- is it necessary to present "truth" to someone with distordered thinking? After all, it's the distorted thinking that is the issue- and we can not change how someone thinks.

Good discussion.

I wonder if sometimes there's confusion about the content of "Truth" in the SET approach.

Maybe we feel relief, like finally there's a lever that will help our pwBPD see things our way. "If I use SET, then I can get him to see [or at least say] that my perspective is right". We all want our loved ones to accept us and understand us -- it's a fundamental longing and there's nothing wrong with that.

If I've read historical posts here correctly, the purpose of SET was not "getting them to see" or "making them accept reality" or "making them understand me" or "having my say".

SET can be used when there's a tangible problem or issue that needs action/solving. The S in SET is "me", the E in SET is "you", and the T in SET is "it (the tangible problem to be solved)", not "me again"

It may apply more to "the hospital bill is due and needs to be paid tomorrow so we can't go out to dinner tonight" type situation, not "I need him to listen to and accept my perspective".

SET for hospital bill:

S: "I really care about you and our relationship. I love it when we can do special things together."
E: "You wanted to go out to dinner tonight. That makes sense, it's been a long week for you."
T: "The hospital bill is due tomorrow. Although we can't go out to dinner tonight, let's put it on the calendar for after the bill clears."

It isn't about presenting The Truth to them as is commonly thought. I think it's much, much, much more grounded and tangible than that. It's finding a path forward in day-to-day problemsolving, not getting them to see the light. "The Truth" is here's what I plan to do about this concrete issue -- not "finally I get my say". I think it's much more "let's get through this moment in the most effective way possible".


...

And like thankful person mentions, if we turn the spotlight on ourselves and focus on knowing who we truly are, then we won't be drawn to trying to use SET (incorrectly) to debunk their assertions... because it won't really matter when I know who I am.

[Notwendy]

I'd like to highlight the "wanting to be right" or somehow saying something to the pwBPD so that they see you are right. Even if you are right- that may not come accross as you intended. Nobody wants to be shown they are wrong. So what do you do?

Sometimes you just can't achieve it. In this case- it's natural consequences of their choices that may be the only "lesson". Hard to do when your lives are interconnected and their choices affect yours.

In 12 steps - one thing we worked on is giving advice when it isn't asked for, and I realized I did this a lot with BPD mother - out of habit as we were used to being her emotional caretakers and parentified. I didn't realize how even helpful advice- without any other intention, was received by her.

She mentioned one day that she had some repair work in her house. We had just done that in our bathroom and the construction dust was all over the place. I wished we had covered some more areas better. So I- without thinking- said- it would be a good idea if she covered the bookcase nearby first.

What I should have said is- to have the workmen do it, but I assumed she'd understand that I didn't expect her- as an elderly woman- to cover a tall bookcase by herself. Her reaction surprised me-  she felt invalidated and thought I was ordering her to do it. How she thought that, I have no idea but she started screaming at me "how dare you tell me to climb up that bookcase".

What changed in my own behavior was that I didn't emotionally react to her accusation and JADE as I did before learning not to, and was able to listen to her and see how she felt invalidated a lot by even unintentional suggestions. This doesn't mean I walk on eggshells around her either or never offer advice but I don't try to step in and advise when it's not necessary. Also, if she believes she's right and I am wrong- that's her thinking, that's her truth.

This is more difficult to deal with when living with someone. If their decisions impact your well being, financial security, children- you have to step in. However, being aware of how they receive advice may help you with understanding when to do this.

[Skip]

I'd like to highlight the "wanting to be right" or somehow saying something to the pwBPD so that they see you are right. Even if you are right- that may not come accross as you intended. Nobody wants to be shown they are wrong. So what do you do?

Sometimes you just can't achieve it. In this case- it's natural consequences of their choices that may be the only "lesson".

If we look at SET as a tool to prove that we are "right" we (not you, btw ) are missing the point. If our focus is on the T, we are not using the tool correctly.

The "S" and the "E" are most important and important for us. Crafting a true empathy statement forces us to rethink the entire scenario from the eyes of the other person.

In this case, for example, SD heard his wife say you never do anything and he jumped, as many would, to "your wrong, I do lots of things".  He has immersed in this "wound" for quite a while.

But is this really what the conflict is about that day?

In writing S + E and rethinking the situation it may become clear that her frustration was more specific. For example, she may have been reacting because he doesn't help clean the kitchen after she cooks meals. She may have expressed that as "you never do anything".

If the triggering issue was about cleaning the kitchen, listing all the thing he does (other than help in the kitchen) makes no sense as a Truth Statement.

Maybe the truth statement should be...

"We both do a lot of things and its important that we share the load together. I am happy to help clean the kitchen with you after dinner."

This is how set works.S+E makes us rethink the transaction and the speak to it more effectively.

 

[thankful person]

NW, my wife is totally like this about the advice and responds far better to my hinting suggestions where she can announce something as her own idea rather than acknowledging it was my idea. She lives in a fantasy world and talks about a lot of nonsense and I’ve realised it’s easier to validate her thoughts and it makes no difference if she is going to do something crazy then I can’t stop her and she’s more likely to do it if there’s resistance. There’s a big thing with ASD children these days called demand avoidance, but actually it’s more common in all children than it used to be and certainly in my wife. The story about the book case is a great example of something innocently helpful being interpreted to have the most malicious intentions. This seems to be a filter pwbpd have where, whatever is said or done they view through the lens of worst possible intention…

[Notwendy]

I looked up demand avoidance and I'm not sure if that is what is going on or it's a result of feeling invalidated and wanting control. One thing I did learn in 12 steps was that unsolicited advice doesn't go well with most people and for those of us who have helping and fixing tendencies- we should be mindful of that.

Truly- we can only change our selves. If we have been in a fixing/caretaking situation- stepping in to help can seem automatic. The question is- when to step in and when not to. We would step in when the consequences are serious and could be harmful but for lesser ones- it could be better to step back. My automatic suggestion was with the intent to avoid a cleaning job- but if the consequence of not covering the book case is a dusty book case- well so be it. This can apply to everyone- and also parenting. If the child forget their homework and gets a bad mark- that's the lesson- rather than to constantly remind them to do it. You would step in when there is a need to protect.

I think Skip makes a good point about how to use the tools and when to use them being important. I also think learning about them is trial and error- if something seems to go in a different direction- then it may need to be adjusted.

[SaltyDawg]

Skip & NW,

   A couple of years ago, your statements would have been accurate.  Skip, much to your point I did have a desire to make a point of being right especially after I found out I was being unintentionally being gaslit by my wife and a licensed professional who believed my wife's distorted/false feelings-based narrative.  I also had a desire to end conflict, like the 3 minute video featured on this site that I linked in my first post, so I attempted to use the tool as presented even though it did come with the caveat "it won't solve all your problems"; however, it is presented as the first step at stopping conflict. 

   I now have a much stronger sense of self, and I am able hold my own version of the truth with little to no effort; whereas, a couple of years ago it was extremely difficult going up against being gaslit by both my pwBPD and our previous couple's therapist.

   NW, as indicated, I no longer have a need, nor desire to express my truth, as I now know what the 'truth' is as I have restored my strong sense of self, in part through therapy, but most of it was self-reflection, self-exploration, and self-verification of what I was experiencing and listening to the recorded interchanges between myself and my wife on how her truth would reflect her current feeling at the moment and mine would have its basis in actual facts.  It was and is quite an eye opening experience for me when I first realized that I was being treated in this manner beyond any doubt, which felt like I was being gaslit; however, as my wife was doing it unintentionally it doesn't meet the definition of being gaslit where it has to be intentional.

   Two years ago, I felt and circumstantial evidence indicated that I was being gaslit by both my wife and the cT (with a lot of countertransference) on being manipulated by my wife destroying my sense of self telling me that my perception of reality, based on facts, was false.  It took listening to audio recordings for me after my own emotions had cooled down after the heated interchanges to realize the level of of how much I was being gaslit by my wife and licensed professional who took my wife's side, and from a factual perspective, I knew that was correct as the recording devices are incapable of distorting the truth.  From that point forward, I learned to question everything, including what is stated here.  I will evaluate every tool that I come across to see if it is appropriate for use in my specific situation and how relevant it is.

   In my job, we have an expression "see something, say something" while this was intended for anti-terrorism activities.  I can express without any doubt, they way my wife treated me with her borderline (like) behaviors are far worse than a terrorist, as I have come face to face with both.  I have asked a couple others that have been face to face with both a borderline partner and a terrorist/enemy combatant, and so far there is unanimous agreement with this assessment.  The psychological damage is far worse from our respective partners than the terrorist/combatant that we faced.

   Here I see tools that have a basis in fact (SET, DEARMAN, etc.) being embraced, and all I am attempting to do is share that 'fact based' tools may not work with some who are irrational to the point of not being able to see the truth/facts and a different tools have to be used to achieve a desired effect - for me those tools have a strong validation of feelings component in them and do not look at the facts at all.  I am attempting to share the perspective of my wife, in hopes that it can help other more effectively communicate with their own pwBPD.

   Two years ago, I was at my all-time low, from a mental perspective where I was beaten down.  I had a career ending injury, DD was physically recovering from full blown anorexia nervosa (AN) as her BMI when I came home was at the upper end of the lethality range, and I had a wife who had been and was continuing to use me as her emotional punching bag, which my DD likely would have been on the receiving end of too when I was out at sea and may very well have contributed to her AN.

   SET was pushed by this site as a first step for resolving conflict (see above link in first post), it was also modelled by our original cT, an eclectic DBT practitioner, too - it didn't work.  For that matter the tool DEARMAN also was also modelled and it too does not work, as it is focused on facts.  However, the tool of validation works wonders for my relationship.  I've read the works of the Lundburg's series of books on of which was reviewed here at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=128027.0, have practical advice and results when I applied their principles are amazing in my relationship with my wife.

If we look at SET as a tool to prove that we are "right" we (not you, btw ) are missing the point. If our focus is on the T, we are not using the tool correctly.

The "S" and the "E" are most important and important for us. Crafting a true empathy statement forces us to rethink the entire scenario from the eyes of the other person.

In this case, for example, SD heard his wife say you never do anything and he jumped, as many would, to "your wrong, I do lots of things".  He has immersed in this "wound" for quite a while.

But is this really what the conflict is about that day?

Skip, at that time, two years ago, you would have been absolutely correct about me.  I was hurt, wounded, and I really didn't know how to respond and was looking for direction.  Initially, for nearly the previous three years ('19-'22), I did not counter my wife's false narrative, and that ultimately convinced our first couple's therapist at the time, I was the issue as she had way too little to contradict my wife's distorted to the point of being false narrative.

Shortly after I landed here at BPD family, I saw the tool on this site, in that video, so I tried it out.  It worked a little bit, but not as much as it suggested it would.  Then I approached my individual therapist to help me figure out what I was doing wrong and worked on the T part, about expressing the Truth in a manner that would be supportive and empathetic - this is how it morphed with the help of my individual therapist, using your kitchen example:

"[wife], I know you feel that I don't help out enough in the kitchen after you have cooked such a wonderful meal for our family.  In addition to clearing the table, putting the trash and recycling in their respective cans, separated the compost, loaded the dishwasher, and I am presently soaking the pans so they can be washed later when it would be easier.  Is there anything else I can help you out with?"  I styled my SET responses in this manner, specific and relevant to whatever my wife's specific complaint was about, from December of 2022 through the fall of 2023 which seemed to work from my perspective, as when I listed all the things I did to support her seemingly distorted perspective, she occasionally had something to add (which I did immediately); however, more often than not, she didn't have anything else to add as I had already done those things.  I did make it a point to say what I had already done, that was relevant, I did not load it with 'fluff' of other chores like "mowing the yard, vacuuming, etc" that were not relevant to the complaint. even though initially I was very tempted to do so.

She would have been triggered by the pans or something else that I missed.  However, my wife did communicate with me recently, even when I said that it would counter her feelings and she found that to be very invalidating as I would be countering what she felt, she was hurt, and would get stuck on it, even though the statements were true she felt as though I was calling her a liar.  This is the point of why I am making with this thread, even with relevant truths, it can still be very invalidating for a pwBPD who has irrational thinking when they are triggered.  I am sharing this so others might benefit from hearing the thought process of my pwBPD as she was able to finally articulate it to me where I could understand her perspective on it - this is what I am attempting to share. 

Even this, targeted comment, where I listed, at length, on how I felt I was being supportive by stating a list of facts, contrary to her statement of feeling was very triggering for her [the above scenario is an actual response example I did for a kitchen complaint, last year].  When I did this, I presented the truth, which she actually knew was true, as those items just had been done, and she watched me do them.  However, she still felt, albeit irrationally, that I just called her a liar.  At the time she had not been introduced to the DBT equivalent of the fact checking tool where she should have been able to discern that this is not true - I first observed her using this tool in January of this year in a dysregulation with our daughter. 

This is the conundrum of being a borderline where her feelings do not match the facts which in turn creates difficult feelings (cognitive dissonance) where the feeling of anger that has no basis in facts is then directed at the person causing these feelings.

If this were to happen now [very rarely now as my wife has cleaned her side of the street too and has minimal complaints here, except when she is really being triggered], I would say, "[Wife], Thank you for letting me know I have not cleaned enough.  Am I correct in assuming that pans that are currently soaking by the sink that I have seemed to have forgotten about needs to be finished?  If not, is there anything else I can do to help you out?"  More often than not, she will take the initiative and do the remaining things that irritate her by herself so they're done correctly.

Much to my wife's credit, on her remission/recovery will now say something along the lines "I would very much like it if someone were to wash the dishes." in a pleasant tone, without assigning who, what, when, where or why.  Now she will more often than not, also help out with cleaning the kitchen instead of making multiple demands of entitlement - previously I would be expected to do everything without any reciprocity, even though she works predominately at home on a part-time basis and has plenty of time to do these things.  She has worked her side of the street too, and I am very proud of her, and there is very little conflict except when HALT [Hungry, Angry, Lonely, & Tired] creeps in at the end of some days here and there when she has had a lot of stressors, predominately at work, - that seems to be the final area where she still needs to do some work on as of today.

My wife seems to be happy that I did the dishes, or whatever else she hinted at that she wants done without any statements of demanding of her entitlements.  Is generally much happier, and if I miss something (I do on occasion), she will do it herself, and I will often jump in when she starts and we do it together.  So it is much different, and so much better than it was two years ago.  For the most part, she is no longer critical, and will not throw a hissy fit, or temper tantrum if things are left undone = huge progress on her part.  Therapy works.

Skip, if it was a general statement that I didn't do anything in the example you have given, I can very easily see your point.  However, I nearly always targeted my seemingly contradictory statements to the specific complaint my wife had in that particular moment.  She used to say 'everything,' to which I would have a much longer list of how I would support her, now she is more specific, like the 'kitchen' example which would have a shorter list.  Now that I no longer focus on the factual list of ways that I supported with specific examples of support, which was invalidating to her as it irrationally contradicted her feelings - cognitive dissonance.  She likes validation much better, as she perceives that I am hearing her issues better when I am focusing on validating her feelings on the matter so we can continue to move forward in our relationship together.

In writing S + E and rethinking the situation it may become clear that her frustration was more specific. For example, she may have been reacting because he doesn't help clean the kitchen after she cooks meals. She may have expressed that as "you never do anything".

If the triggering issue was about cleaning the kitchen, listing all the thing he does (other than help in the kitchen) makes no sense as a Truth Statement.

Skip, I hear you, that might have been the case in October/November of 2022 when I really didn't know how to apply it; however, as I indicated above I worked with my iT on making it better, and it was I who suggested to my iT to shift it to just validating, as I had learned that from some relevant training I had taken as the progress we had seemed to have stalled.  When shifting to a different tool which also has S & E elements in it, of validation, which has several workshops here at the 'family' of which have additional links:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=124001.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=191788.0;all

Maybe the truth statement should be...

"We both do a lot of things and its important that we share the load together. I am happy to help clean the kitchen with you after dinner."

This is how set works.S+E makes us rethink the transaction and the speak to it more effectively.

While not using your specific words, that is what this has morphed into, as my wife cleaned up her side of the street, as I have also cleaned up my side of the street, and this kind of conflict has largely been eliminated, except when it is the children's turn to do dishes, and we are managing like any other house with children in that aspect.

The whole point of me starting this thread was to share the irrational thought processes of a pwBPD as the pwBPD was able to articulate them, when it comes to some of the tools on this site when faced with truthful statements that conflict (cognitive dissonance) with their beliefs based almost exclusively on her feelings rather than what is factual where her beliefs did not line up with what actually was going on.

This dialog on this subject, has also allowed me to explain my own personal growth process of learning how to use SET to be supportive and then use a different tool of validation which was much more effective.  Without guidance from a professional, some of these tools on this site (and others too) can be difficult to learn as it is often recommended to do in the books I have read on the subject.

It took me more than a year to figure out my wife's thought process on this, where I had to shift to the tool of validation instead.  As a result of this conversation with my wife, her ability to articulate it, I feel as though there may have been too much emphasis placed on SET communication by our couple's therapist at the time, this site, and other resources, and other tools should be emphasized over SET. 

SET communication is effective with the target of your communication is rational - I use it effectively with both of our children.  However, when a pwBPD is triggered into an emotional crisis, a different set of tools needs to be used.

[Notwendy]

Yes, I agree SD and also know that others read these threads- so if any information doesn't apply to you, hopefully it will be helpful to others. It was a realization on my part to see that when I thought I was being helpful with advice that it wasn't received as helpful- it was felt as invalidating. Prior to that I felt hurt at the response to my attempts to be helpful but seeing it this way helped me to not react out of hurt feelings- because that only added to the drama. Admittedly, I don't live with my BPD mother and the relationship is different but I think there are common patterns. Someone in a relationship with a person with BPD may have intentions to help and are surprised when the intention isn't received.

I think in some situations, a pwBPD's "truth" could be damaging- especially if others are brought into it and are convinced of it. How to set the record straight can be challenging. I also wouldn't want to continue with a therapist who was giving poor advice based on untrue information.

I think the tools have a place. Most people who come here to these boards want to feel they tried what they can do and the first step is to reduce drama by changing how we react. Learning what is effective and what isn't may be a bit of trial and error. But we can't "cure" a mental illness. Still, the tools are good skills for all relationships really so they are worth learning.