Multiple breakups during a year

[Michail]

She was the one who chased me for over a year. Then I fell for her, but she said, "OOO! It's not easy; I have a boyfriend of 8 years." WTF! She broke up with him. Everything was great, passion, limerence, we tried to have kids together right from the start. Then she began breaking up with me:

1st -> no contact, came back the next day;
2nd -> no contact, came back after a week;
3rd -> no contact 1 month , she went back to her ex, got engaged, broke up with him, and came back to me. "I wish you could be my husband one day!"

Then another 3 months -> breakup for the 4th time -> this time with contact -> came back after 2 weeks. And the current 5th time: she broke up with me, the next day wanted to see me. Great casual meeting, no serious talk, good emotions. She called me the whole week like nothing happened. She proposed a meeting, which didn't work out. So I asked the next day. Switched off - "NO," but she kept breadcrumbing me.

I was losing respect for myself. I ended it with a rather unpleasant message, 'I've had enough; this time it's really over...' No reply, and we've had no contact for a month.

I didn't want to leave it on bad terms, at least for my own sake. I texted her, 'I hope you're doing well?' Then she called me and came to see me. It was a casual meeting but no emotions. She said, 'I'm alone; I finally have time for myself.' No contact for another month. Any thoughts?

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[EyesUp]

Hello, and welcome.

The situation you describe is familiar to many here - recycles are a part of the BPD playbook. 

Thoughts - she's not here, so let's focus on you:

You clearly see the pattern and dynamic, and you clearly identify how you feel about it:

I was losing respect for myself. I ended it with a rather unpleasant message, 'I've had enough; this time it's really over...'

"unpleasant message" suggests that you feel about how you ended it - Don't. It's good to be direct and to the point. Of course it's unpleasant - but sugar-coating the situation is usually counterproductive, even in healthy relationships.

Questions back to you:

Why did you participate in these cycles - even before she suggested marriage?

Since you highlighted the comment re: marriage - I imagine that this felt good to hear, albeit not in the way we'd hope, i.e., it occurred in a breakup cycle, and in contrast to a competing partner - vs. in a healthy/stable relationship and for your own intrinsic merit. Does this sound about right? 

Do you think that you can build a healthy/stable relationship on this foundation? Do you feel that her desire for marriage is sincere, or is she expressing a feeling/wish for a romantic ideal that's not truly connected to you and your relationship as you know it?

Getting back together again might feel great, as it probably did in the past - but where do you go from there?  What do you want to make happen?  After the immediate dopamine hit, how will you move toward stability and avoid further recycles?  Are you prepared to retract your "really over" statement? How do your friends and family feel about her? If hasn't been a part of your extended community for whatever reason, how would you feel about introducing her at this point?

Going back to the beginning - why did it take a year of chasing before you fell for her? What were your reservations or reasons for not jumping in sooner?

It sounds like she likes the chase, and likes to know that she can get your attention when/if she wants it. But that she's not really prepared to commit. The way she pursued you while conducting another relationship says a lot... and it's reinforced by the reunion with her x after cycle #3, too.  i.e., you're not the only one experiencing this dynamic...

Since you've posted on the "reversing" board, it seems like you've already decided that you want to dive back in for another cycle.  My guess is that you haven't heard from her in a month because she's occupied elsewhere - with the ex, a new interest, or maybe she's truly working on herself. But given the persistent pattern of cycles, I expect you'll hear from her again sooner or later.

In my case, I also had a relationship like this with a few recycles. I broke up with her, dated other people, etc. She called a year later - I did the nice guy thing and agreed to catch up - she said all the things:  I miss you, no one is as good as you, I want to be with you...  we ended up getting married and had three kids. 14 years into the marriage I discovered that she was having an affair - that's what it took to finally break the cycles.  As I went through the divorce I discovered that the there was another affair a few years earlier - it and coincided with a rough patch that she always blamed on me.

The thing about BPD (or NPD or BPD with N tendencies) is that the need for validation can be bottomless - so there's always a chance that a BPD partner will attract and accept attention elsewhere - and then blame the situation on you. 

As you navigate your next steps, keep this in mind:  accusations are confessions.  If you speak with her again, listen carefully to what she has to say... let her do most of the talking.

I hope this is helpful in some way.

[Michail]

Hey EyesUp, thank you for your input. I really appreciate it!

I know it's not logical to want her back, but feelings aren't built on logic.

Why did it take a year?

I wasn't that interested in her at the beginning and wasn't looking for a relationship at the time. I was still not over my ex and didn't want to meet her without clear intentions, as I always knew she wanted something more from me. But at some point, I started to like her and didn't want to refuse her for the 100th time. Then we began seeing each other, and I liked her more and more. We always had a great time together. She is a very warm, intelligent, and empathetic person, always positive with great life energy. I enjoyed talking with her. It hit me that she is exactly like me—or maybe it was the mirroring effect.

When I learned that she had a boyfriend, I stepped back. I didn't want to be in such a situation, and I always knew that an eight-year relationship couldn't dissolve easily. But she then broke up with him.

Everything was great, very intense. She wanted to see me every day, we made plans, we tried to have kids together, I met her family... We had a really great time and a deep connection. That's why it's hard for me to get over it, especially when it's so hard to understand.

Then the breakups began.

Every breakup happened out of the blue, right after our best moments. The next day, sometimes even hours after passionate sex. I explained to myself that it was because of her previous relationship, that it was very hard for her to break that connection. But I didn't know about her extreme instability.

When she broke off her engagement for me (I didn't ask for it! When I learned about it I said to her: "It was nice to meet you, goodbye"), I thought there must be a really strong connection.

She acts like she never talks about the problems. When she feels her BPD emotions, she cannot deal with them and needs to get out to feel safe. Then we can talk—sometimes after no contact, sometimes right after, after a couple of hours or the next day. And then we talk (I always accepted breakups, never begged or forced her, just talked with her warmly). And then everything is immediately good. But of course, nothing worked long-term.

It's hard to deal with it...

[Michail]

She never was and never could be alone.
Whenever she broke up with me, she always came back almost immediately, within a day or two, very emotionally.

When it took longer, it turned out that the reason was she was trying to rebuild her 8-year relationship with her ex.
But that didn't work either; first, she came back to me after just a week, although emotionally she was still between him and me. She broke up with me a month later, immediately going back to him and getting engaged to him. And right after that, she came back to me. Within just a month, she got engaged to him and then told him to move out again. She told me many bad things about that relationship, things that repulsed her about that guy, that it was a bad relationship and that she no longer loved him.

Maybe she was lying to me the whole time and was bouncing back and forth between him and me. It's hard for me to imagine, especially since our relationship seemed very close and emotional. We were trying to have children together, we had plans. But if that were the case, then why did she come back to me immediately after another breakup? And why the last time did we almost get back together right away if she had plans to return to him?

On the other hand, it’s already been three months since the breakup and there’s complete silence. And that makes me wonder. Maybe she went back to him and that's the reason. Or maybe she’s finally matured to the point that after the 5th or 6th breakup, she will now stick to her decision. Maybe it's too much to try for the seventh time, or maybe my reaction, that it's over, confirmed her in that decision.
I'm surprised that I even fell so low as to consider this. Normally, I would have kicked such a girl to the curb. But with her after all that relanshionship... unbelievable.

[kells76]

Hi Michail;

Unstable relationships -- whether from one relationship to another, or instability within one relationship -- are a feature, not an exception, if BPD is in play. So it isn't surprising to me to read this:

Maybe she was lying to me the whole time and was bouncing back and forth between him and me. It's hard for me to imagine, especially since our relationship seemed very close and emotional. We were trying to have children together, we had plans. But if that were the case, then why did she come back to me immediately after another breakup? And why the last time did we almost get back together right away if she had plans to return to him?

Given that BPD is a real and serious mental illness, then if it is what's contributing to this situation, I'm not sure that the vocabulary of "lying" and "plans" are really accurate. BPD is less about the pwBPD conniving and planning to manipulate the relationship partner, and is much more about intense needs to manage out-of-control emotions on a moment-to-moment basis. Not a lot of room for plotting there -- though that doesn't mean that their choices don't hurt us. Our thread on "BPD. What is it? How can I tell?" has a good discussion on how instability in relationships (and what that implies, such as an inability to be alone) is a core feature.

On the other hand, it’s already been three months since the breakup and there’s complete silence. And that makes me wonder. Maybe she went back to him and that's the reason. Or maybe she’s finally matured to the point that after the 5th or 6th breakup, she will now stick to her decision. Maybe it's too much to try for the seventh time, or maybe my reaction, that it's over, confirmed her in that decision.
I'm surprised that I even fell so low as to consider this. Normally, I would have kicked such a girl to the curb. But with her after all that relanshionship... unbelievable.

There could be any number of things going on with her; it's hard to tell. It would be good for everyone if she hit her own "rock bottom" and decided to work on herself. It's good for us to hit our own rock bottom and work on ourselves, too!

What is under your control to know is why you were attracted to that dynamic and what you want to choose, moving forward. We're on the "Bettering a relationship" board which is a place to dig into ourselves and do the work to build more mature tools and skills for having a more effective relationship -- we know that members stay in, and return to, BPD relationships for any number of personal reasons, and we respect that.

As you reflect on yourself and what you want, where would you say you're at? If you want to try again, there are worse and better ways to go about that, and we're here to help. It's also OK to decide to close the door on the relationship. Only you can decide for your own life.

[Michail]

Thank you for your input kells76 ! I appreciate any kind of help very much.

Our relationship seemed to be very good. There was a strong attraction, both intimate and emotional. However, in the last 2-3 weeks, I've noticed a decline. I don't know what happened. She broke up with me many times, typically when things seemed at their best.

This last time, she seemed very unsure and we almost got back together instantly. Why did she do this if she still had feelings? Did she have constant doubts during the relationship and gradually convince herself that it wasn't right because she kept feeling these emotions repeatedly? Maybe she hit her rock bottom and is trying to work on herself. But she was never alone and could never be. She still had strong feelings for me, and the two months of silence since our last meeting have really bothered me.

I agree with you, most of the time it seemed it's really about these "out-of-control emotions".

I would like to give it another shot, but if the reason is that she's back with her ex again, obviously, I would not accept her back anymore.

But... What can I do? What should I do?

[kells76]

I would like to give it another shot, but if the reason is that she's back with her ex again, obviously, I would not accept her back anymore.

But... What can I do? What should I do?

Am I tracking with you that if you find out that the person she's currently in a relationship with is her ex, then that would be a permanent deal breaker for you?

...

Wanting to reconnect with an ex who is currently in a relationship is a pretty difficult position to be in. It also sounds like whoever she's in a relationship with, it's a newer/fresher relationship.

Imagine if you were in a relationship for a few months -- things were just getting off the ground, it was new and exciting, there were a lot of good feelings going on. And then, an ex from your past got in touch and tried to reconnect. There would be little to nothing that that ex could do or say that would convince you to exit your current relationship and return to the ex. And if your ex hadn't really changed, you might be thinking "well, we ended for a reason, and my ex isn't bringing anything new to the table now anyway".

The most win-win approach I can think of, given what you say you'd like (reconnecting at some point as long as her current partner is not her ex), is taking this time -- however long it is -- to turn the spotlight back on yourself. Dig deep, maybe through starting to see a counselor/therapist, into who you are, and what past experiences have contributed to why you do relationships the way you do. Have that counselor/therapist help you pull back the layers to see your relational style and impairments, and maybe shine some light on your contributions (was there neediness you weren't aware of, were you inadvertently making things worse, etc).

Whatever was going on, something about your previous relational dynamic between you and her didn't work.

She isn't here asking for help and you can't control her anyway, so what you're left with is what is actually 100% under your control... working on you, learning about you, and getting help for you, so that no matter who you partner with in the future (her or someone else), you aren't repeating failed relational dynamics.

Lots of food for thought... what's your take?

[Michail]

Youre point is offcourse right.

I'm working on myself. I try to do my things, working at the gym, I'm seeing other women. It reminds me that, I'm an attractive guy. But then I come home feeling down - this just isn’t it. I miss her, especially that this pattern of coming back makes me wait and hoping for it.

I don't know her current situation.

I've been reflecting on the dynamics of her coming back:

1) I accepted the breakup but suggested, "If you want, we can go for a walk tomorrow." She called me the next day -> Oh, she wants to talk." I started the topic, but she said she wants the breakup. But I'm talking, talking, kissing her -> she's happy

2) She reached out after a week. She cautiosly start talking about getting back together - suggesting it in a indirect way, but I act like I'm okay with the breakup. She continues and continues suggesting. I agreed -> she cried "Oh, I was so afraid you wouldn’t answer my calls anymore."

3) I texted her month later asking for an explanation. The next day, she showed up at my place, crying and nervous, and told me she had gotten engaged to her ex. I told her, "Okay, then go to him." She left in tears but an hour later texted me, thanking me and saying, "Who knows what the future holds. Maybe we’ll meet again someday." Three days later, she called me, crying uncontrollably, "I miss you so much!"

4) I called her the same day wanting to talk after she left. She said "I'm decided" but we talk and she changes her behaviour. Like joking at the end smiling "Oh I dont know, maybe I will call you, maybe not". A few days later, I sent her some message, and she replied,
"Thank you for sending this. I wrote a (loving indeed) letter to you but was too afraid to send it."

5) We both reached out to each other, and things went well until she suddenly changed her mind. This time, I said I had enough, that it was over for good. She didn’t respond, confirm, or say a final goodbye. After a month, not wanting to end things on a harsh note, I reached out with, "I hope you're okay?" Then she called, asking to meet in person, but we both acted as if we were moving on.


I see a pattern here. She never really closes the door and always seems to care about maintaining a good connection. She tends to be afraid of reaching out, fearing rejection, like she wants to be chased—to have me put in the effort. It seems she has some insecurities.
This time, I felt like I needed to teach her a lesson, but I didn’t expect her to stay silent for so long. And I obviously don't know whats the reason of that.


It's been 4 months. Maybe I should stick to NC. As the bpd she can by typically driven by two conflicting compulsions: 1 of them tells her I'm the man for her until she has me and then the other pushes her away. And then at some point starts the anxiety compulsion thats maybe she did wrong and I'm gone for good. Then she reaches out. Now because she's been back and forth with me enough part of her is already convinced if she wants to come back she can get it, so it's difficult for the strong fear of losing. Unless she's with someone else...

[kells76]

I'm working on myself. I try to do my things, working at the gym, I'm seeing other women. It reminds me that, I'm an attractive guy.

Good to hear you're focusing on yourself. In addition to going to the gym, what are some of your hobbies and interests? Music? Reading? Hiking/camping?

But then I come home feeling down - this just isn’t it. I miss her, especially that this pattern of coming back makes me wait and hoping for it.

...

I see a pattern here. She never really closes the door and always seems to care about maintaining a good connection. She tends to be afraid of reaching out, fearing rejection, like she wants to be chased—to have me put in the effort. It seems she has some insecurities.
This time, I felt like I needed to teach her a lesson, but I didn’t expect her to stay silent for so long. And I obviously don't know whats the reason of that.

You see some of her pattern.

What's your pattern?

You are also contributing to the relational instability. If you want a chance for things to improve, you have to turn that spotlight off of her (what's her pattern, how is she feeling, what does she want, how is she insecure, why is she silent) and turn it on to you.

Continuing to focus on her contributions will not improve the chances of reversing the breakup -- if that's even what you want.

Maybe it's hard to hear -- but this is the "Bettering a relationship/reversing a breakup" board and hard questions plus self focus are what we do here 

It's been 4 months. Maybe I should stick to NC. As the bpd she can by typically driven by two conflicting compulsions: 1 of them tells her I'm the man for her until she has me and then the other pushes her away. And then at some point starts the anxiety compulsion thats maybe she did wrong and I'm gone for good. Then she reaches out. Now because she's been back and forth with me enough part of her is already convinced if she wants to come back she can get it, so it's difficult for the strong fear of losing. Unless she's with someone else...

Again, direct question: if you want to reconnect and/or reverse the breakup, why would you be in no contact with her? NC is not a relationship-building tool and it's not a switch to flip to get results.

One of the best things you can do for you (and her) is to be clear with yourself about what you want. I don't see a functional game plan right now -- I see a lot of reacting to her, following her lead, focusing on her, and wondering about her feelings. There can be some fear about fully committing to either trying to repair, or choosing to end things -- but the worst of all possible worlds is trying to reconnect intermittently without new skills/approaches. It just repeats the patterns (both of your patterns) that contributed to things falling apart originally.

Let's shine the light on you -- it might be difficult, but it's under your control and can give you a new, clearer path forward.

What do you think? Any of that on target? My intent isn't to "be angry with you" or blame, so I hope it isn't coming across that way. Really working to understand if you want to give it another chance or if you're done, because the paths forward are very different, and mixing the approaches doesn't help anyone.

[Michail]

Hey Kells,
How are you doing? Thank you for your posts!

Here are my answers to your questions:

1) Yes I do focus too much on her. I've never been in such extreme dynamics with anyone. I try to understand. I think I could never make it work with her without understanding the nature of issues.

What are my hobbies and interests?

2) Many things. Books, music, sport, dance, board games. I'm quite a busy person actually

My pattern?

3) I think I have secure attachment style. But experiencing this breakup-dynamics once I got attached I became insecure. One week she was extremely passionate with me, then another distant. Once she talks about future plans, kids, moving in toghether, then on another day she avoids the topics. You know, it made me worry. It costs me stress sometimes. Then I tried too much. I was too much focused on her, somehow forgot about my things, lost some life energy.. became complacent? There are some things to improve for sure.

4) Yes, I do want her back.

NC?

5) I will reach out to her. Whatever happens I think it's right.
Maybe this breakup was just another bpd (this is "my diagnosis") episode. Maybe instead of confirming the breakup and going silent I should be more patient with her and try to stay in touch and support her - "I hate you, please don't leave me" - BTW how you handle it?

But... She asked for breakup and not for suppport and I'm not used to be knocking on the closed door. But I feel like I just want to say hello, how are you doing to her.