Honesty, values, and boundaries

[mugsydublin]

I have a question regarding boundaries.

On the page about setting values-based boundaries, one of suggested values is "I am totally honest in all of my dealings with others."

I am not totally honest.

I have set up a storage locker secretly to keep my possessions safe.
I have not told my wife about a medical issue I have because I do not have the stamina for her interference.
I have not told my wife that I suspect (know) that she has BPD and that I am educating myself about how to respond to it.
I have not told my wife that I am speaking to a lawyer about how to secure assets so that she does not take them.
I have not told my wife that I am back in therapy.
I have not told my wife that I am utterly miserable.

I feel like I am living a double life.

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[Tangled mangled]

I have a question regarding boundaries.

On the page about setting values-based boundaries, one of suggested values is "I am totally honest in all of my dealings with others."

I am not totally honest.

I have set up a storage locker secretly to keep my possessions safe.
I have not told my wife about a medical issue I have because I do not have the stamina for her interference.
I have not told my wife that I suspect (know) that she has BPD and that I am educating myself about how to respond to it.
I have not told my wife that I am speaking to a lawyer about how to secure assets so that she does not take them.
I have not told my wife that I am back in therapy.
I have not told my wife that I am utterly miserable.

I feel like I am living a double life.

Just here to say it’s not about living a double life but more about self preservation.
As you already know, you have had to keep all that you to yourself because the alternative will cause far more distress than it’s worth.
I’ve read your other threads and you are doing all the right things.
One thing that helped me maintain my dignity and sanity while I was dealing with my pwbpd at close range was learning that I had to cease all sincere communication with the insincere. … that’s a quote from Richard Grannon, a YouTuber.
Take care of yourself

[Notwendy]

I think it is uncomfortable to "hide" things- but consider- are we completely open and honest with people who are not trustworthy? When a telephone scammer asks me personal information- do I feel dishonest if I don't give it?

We aren't supposed to be dishonest, and outright lie- but to keep personal information to ourselves is about boundaries. I don't give a burglar the key to my house.

So why do you feel uncomfortable with these boundaries? Because our BPD mothers do not like boundaries and we don't feel comfortable having them. She expected us to be "open books" but she isn't.

I also feel uncomfortable hiding information from her. This is from growing up with her where it was not OK to do that.

In an ideal situation, you would not have to do this to keep your personal belongings safe or secure your assets- but this isn't an ideal situation- it's not a safe situation. Your personal mental and physical health is your business. You don't have to share it with someone who would not be supportive of you.

[waverider]

Honesty does not mean reporting on every single thing you do, or think. You have only been conditioned to think this is being dishonest. Nobody else completely owns us. We share ourselves, and it is up to us to decide how much, and what, we share.

One thing I do know is that a borderline partner hides more from us that we do from them. It is their own, often devious way of thinking that is their normal. Therefore they assume everyone else is the same. Call it projection if you like, but that's why they never trust anyone and always interrogate us and make us feel guilty. They do it out of choice we do it out of self preservation.

We make diplomatic decisions which are aimed at avoiding escalation out of necessity

Most important thing is stay honest to yourself, and avoid self delusion

[Notwendy]

Most important thing is stay honest to yourself, and avoid self delusion

This!
It's difficult to live with someone and not buy into their perspective. It may take some effort to hold on to yours. It's easy to be lulled into complacency and just go along with it.

My BPD mother doesn't put all her cards on the table- while also expecting complete transparency from her family. It gives her a sense of feeling in control.

[kells76]

An important area to get clarity for yourself is in the beliefs (tacit or explicit) underpinning those choices (because our degree of disclosure is a choice, not "something forced upon us").

It's one thing to have the perspective of: "having a successful BPD relationship means you have to live a double life and walk on eggshells and be really careful not to set off my partner, so I'm actually improving (or preserving) my relationship by lying, misrepresenting, and withholding". I'm not saying anyone here is doing that -- just an example.

It's another thing to have the perspective of: "I find myself twisting the truth when I'm with my BPDw. I'm afraid of how she'll respond if she found out about actions I'm taking that will be creating some distance between us. I'm living in the worst of both worlds because I'm not really sure I want to stay in the relationship, but I'm still in it"

It's yet another thing to have the perspective: "I'm in charge of what I share with my W. I also know and accept that she has profound emotional limitations that impact many areas of her life. I get to choose what I disclose and I do that in line with my values of trying to be a loving spouse (not putting intense things on her and then expecting her to respond "normally"). If there is something I don't want to share, I get to say that I am not ready to talk about it. Nobody makes me a liar except for me, and I can build skills to preserve trust in our relationship while having the strength not to say Yes to every disclosure."

So there are a variety of beliefs that could be behind lying, withholding, twisting the truth, not disclosing, etc.

Like waverider and Notwendy have articulated, by definition none of us shares every last detail of everything that happened with our spouses. It actually isn't possible in reality! Seriously, at some level, we all tacitly accept that when our spouse asks us "so what did you do at work today", we don't say "I went in the door, then I breathed in, then I breathed out, then I blinked, and that was as I was taking approximately 12 steps towards the lunch room, when I turned my head to the left..." because we understand the actual question being communicated with those words, and we are in touch with our own intentionality.

There is no necessary correlation between level of detail shared, and truthful intentionality. It's like a dot-to-dot picture. You can show most of the dots that are in the original -- you aren't moving any dot positions -- but by artfully withholding some dots, it looks like a totally different picture. A person can share many accurate details with the intentionality of obscuring the truth. Lots of movie and book plots move forward because of that.

So -- back to your original thought.

I have a question regarding boundaries.

On the page about setting values-based boundaries, one of suggested values is "I am totally honest in all of my dealings with others."

I am not totally honest.

...

I feel like I am living a double life.

The values listed on that page are examples. You may have different values, that's OK.

Do you want to be totally honest (recall, no necessary correlation to level of detail -- but an important correlation to your intentionality) -- would you like that to be one of your core values? To me, that's the first step -- identifying and clarifying who you want to be.

Then, getting clarity on whether you want to stay in/improve your relationship vs feeling conflicted about staying in it could be the next step.

The worst of both worlds is staying in a relationship without "working the program" to learn and apply the tools and skills here. It's miserable for her, for you, and for the relationship.

Do you think you can get clarity on whether you're "in it" or conflicted? Where do you think you're at right now?

I think a lot will fall into place when you take a clear look at if you want to be in the relationship.

[jaded7]

An important area to get clarity for yourself is in the beliefs (tacit or explicit) underpinning those choices (because our degree of disclosure is a choice, not "something forced upon us").

It's one thing to have the perspective of: "having a successful BPD relationship means you have to live a double life and walk on eggshells and be really careful not to set off my partner, so I'm actually improving (or preserving) my relationship by lying, misrepresenting, and withholding". I'm not saying anyone here is doing that -- just an example.

It's another thing to have the perspective of: "I find myself twisting the truth when I'm with my BPDw. I'm afraid of how she'll respond if she found out about actions I'm taking that will be creating some distance between us. I'm living in the worst of both worlds because I'm not really sure I want to stay in the relationship, but I'm still in it"

It's yet another thing to have the perspective: "I'm in charge of what I share with my W. I also know and accept that she has profound emotional limitations that impact many areas of her life. I get to choose what I disclose and I do that in line with my values of trying to be a loving spouse (not putting intense things on her and then expecting her to respond "normally"). If there is something I don't want to share, I get to say that I am not ready to talk about it. Nobody makes me a liar except for me, and I can build skills to preserve trust in our relationship while having the strength not to say Yes to every disclosure."

So there are a variety of beliefs that could be behind lying, withholding, twisting the truth, not disclosing, etc.

Like waverider and Notwendy have articulated, by definition none of us shares every last detail of everything that happened with our spouses. It actually isn't possible in reality! Seriously, at some level, we all tacitly accept that when our spouse asks us "so what did you do at work today", we don't say "I went in the door, then I breathed in, then I breathed out, then I blinked, and that was as I was taking approximately 12 steps towards the lunch room, when I turned my head to the left..." because we understand the actual question being communicated with those words, and we are in touch with our own intentionality.

There is no necessary correlation between level of detail shared, and truthful intentionality. It's like a dot-to-dot picture. You can show most of the dots that are in the original -- you aren't moving any dot positions -- but by artfully withholding some dots, it looks like a totally different picture. A person can share many accurate details with the intentionality of obscuring the truth. Lots of movie and book plots move forward because of that.

So -- back to your original thought.

The values listed on that page are examples. You may have different values, that's OK.

Do you want to be totally honest (recall, no necessary correlation to level of detail -- but an important correlation to your intentionality) -- would you like that to be one of your core values? To me, that's the first step -- identifying and clarifying who you want to be.

Then, getting clarity on whether you want to stay in/improve your relationship vs feeling conflicted about staying in it could be the next step.

The worst of both worlds is staying in a relationship without "working the program" to learn and apply the tools and skills here. It's miserable for her, for you, and for the relationship.

Do you think you can get clarity on whether you're "in it" or conflicted? Where do you think you're at right now?

I think a lot will fall into place when you take a clear look at if you want to be in the relationship.

As usual, really good Kells.

I'll add that we may have experienced our partners not being fully open and truthful with us. Evading, plausible deniability, weird short answers to questions that don't answer the question, not responding for days but acting like nothing happened. These are all forms of disconnection and untruthfulness. And we definitely don't want to be doing that.

I can see why the OP is worried, we want to be truthful and sincere. But in this case, the person has made it clear that they are emotionally dangerous and, in my mind, that negates any need for 'full' truth if we are doing it to protect ourselves from their abuse.

We might also be worried they'll find out, and then there will be hell to pay. Which is part of the abuse when it's been done in the absence of our intention to deceive.