Are there different 'levels' of BPD ?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi Folks,
I've been reading through the forums wonderful pages and there are so many stories that relate to my situation at the moment. 
I had been in a relationship  with my amazing fiance'e for more than  5 years and in general we have had the best of times, we co habit, as in  generally stay together at her house but I have my own place where I stay to benefit my son (from a previous relationship) due to his school location, different counties although only five miles apart. It's  four nights with her and three with my son,the plan was to get married and stay together in the coming years.
We had/have the most idyllic relationship 95% of the time, best friends, soulmates so close and very much in love however..... every now and again, ranging from six months to almost a year on one occasion, boom, I say something  and it apparently is very upsetting to the point, according  to her, that we cannot be together, she needs space and wants to split up. She will go total NC, block social media everything . This can happen in an instance.

I get the silent treatment for varying periods, days to up three weeks as it stands and although any contact we do have is not abusive her comments are hurtful and it feels like to a point that someone else is sending the messages as they are completely out of character for her. These normally end with me reluctantly accepting the rs is over, then .... boom... again she's at my door in tears, questioning herself over what's just happened, asking herself what's wrong with her and basically totally broken.

Normally we just cuddle it out then things are good again for weeks, months or until something upsets her, she's walked out of work on a couple of occasions because of what someone's said to her then this has ended up with us parting even though I had nothing to do with the whole situation, she really seems to struggle with any form of conflict or criticism.
My main reason for posting to all you guy's who seem to have been in or are in similar situations is for advice, she's uBPD, (I'm no psychologist, but the symptoms of BPD could have been written based on her) recognises after the episodes that there's something wrong however I'm not sure whether to continue with this. I could walk away but the good times far outweigh the bad and we are so close normally.She has mentioned when she comes back that she has a fear that I will leave her then convinces herself she'd be better getting out first, she's often said that she convinces herself that whatever I done to upset her was done on purpose and that I am not the person she thought I was (splitting ?) then suddenly, in her words, it's like a switch is flicked and she wonders what she has done then gets upset again about her actions.

I'd support her in whatever she/we need to do however how do you help someone who wont speak to you, at this point in time I've just returned from collecting my belongings from her place, left in her car, and it looks like she's had the door locks changed on the house, I would never have considered entering her house in this situation, why on earth would she even considered that I would have, I feel like I've been demonised.
My main frustration is what will I do this time if/when she comes back, love her to pieces but I dont want 95% of a good relationship.   

 I'm far from perfect but it's hard being in a relationship with someone with some sort of issues
                 

[Lost Farmer]

Hi Folks,
I've been reading through the forums wonderful pages and there are so many stories that relate to my situation at the moment. 
I had been in a relationship  with my amazing fiance'e for more than  5 years and in general we have had the best of times, we co habit, as in  generally stay together at her house but I have my own place where I stay to benefit my son (from a previous relationship) due to his school location, different counties although only five miles apart. It's  four nights with her and three with my son,the plan was to get married and stay together in the coming years.
We had/have the most idyllic relationship 95% of the time, best friends, soulmates so close and very much in love however..... every now and again, ranging from six months to almost a year on one occasion, boom, I say something  and it apparently is very upsetting to the point, according  to her, that we cannot be together, she needs space and wants to split up. She will go total NC, block social media everything . This can happen in an instance.

I get the silent treatment for varying periods, days to up three weeks as it stands and although any contact we do have is not abusive her comments are hurtful and it feels like to a point that someone else is sending the messages as they are completely out of character for her. These normally end with me reluctantly accepting the rs is over, then .... boom... again she's at my door in tears, questioning herself over what's just happened, asking herself what's wrong with her and basically totally broken.

Normally we just cuddle it out then things are good again for weeks, months or until something upsets her, she's walked out of work on a couple of occasions because of what someone's said to her then this has ended up with us parting even though I had nothing to do with the whole situation, she really seems to struggle with any form of conflict or criticism.
My main reason for posting to all you guy's who seem to have been in or are in similar situations is for advice, she's uBPD, (I'm no psychologist, but the symptoms of BPD could have been written based on her) recognises after the episodes that there's something wrong however I'm not sure whether to continue with this. I could walk away but the good times far outweigh the bad and we are so close normally.She has mentioned when she comes back that she has a fear that I will leave her then convinces herself she'd be better getting out first, she's often said that she convinces herself that whatever I done to upset her was done on purpose and that I am not the person she thought I was (splitting ?) then suddenly, in her words, it's like a switch is flicked and she wonders what she has done then gets upset again about her actions.

I'd support her in whatever she/we need to do however how do you help someone who wont speak to you, at this point in time I've just returned from collecting my belongings from her place, left in her car, and it looks like she's had the door locks changed on the house, I would never have considered entering her house in this situation, why on earth would she even considered that I would have, I feel like I've been demonised.
My main frustration is what will I do this time if/when she comes back, love her to pieces but I dont want 95% of a good relationship.   

 I'm far from perfect but it's hard being in a relationship with someone with some sort of issues
                 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ChooseHappiness]

I'd support her in whatever she/we need to do however how do you help someone who wont speak to you, at this point in time I've just returned from collecting my belongings from her place, left in her car, and it looks like she's had the door locks changed on the house, I would never have considered entering her house in this situation, why on earth would she even considered that I would have, I feel like I've been demonised.
My main frustration is what will I do this time if/when she comes back, love her to pieces but I dont want 95% of a good relationship.                   

Maybe she has some level of BPD, maybe it's something else. It's hard to really know without an official diagnosis. It's the pattern that should matter to you. You suggest that the on/off relationship you have right now is not acceptable to you. (And it seems a reasonable observation given what you've described here.) So the real question is whether or not you think she can change in the future and develop more positive coping and communication skills. If so, is it worth going through these on/off cycles until this hypothetical scenario happens? If not, well, you've already suggested the relationship you have now is not what you want.

Remember, the whole point of a relationship is to improve your life. Is this doing that?

[Lost Farmer]

Thank you for taking the time to reply,

I understand my post may seem confusing in as much as what I want out the relationship, ultimately I want to have her the way she is most of the time however I am convinced she has uBPD or some other disorder which stops this happening.

Our relationship is generally amazing, no arguments, no bickering and a bond so strong.... then something happens which can be unrelated to me and I'm ghosted, abandoned. This is the most extreme episode she has had, I got a text saying that she is leaving work and when I went to collect my belongings which were left in her car it would appear that she has actually changed the door locks on her house, why she would do that I have no idea.I'm a well balanced person, don't do threats or abuse and would certainly never enter someones house in this situation.

My main concern at this point is for her actual health, I have gone from being her life partner to it would appear being demonised literally overnight, because I made a quip she didnt like. nothing personal or demeaning to her. There was no argument or falling out she just switched of and asked me to leave, refuses to speak to me and now has ended the relationship with no explanation of why or her reasons. As I mentioned before there is no abuse from her just hurtful messages stating that we are over and thats it. I havent been bombarding her with contact just a message every couple of days to say I'm thinking of her.
It's so confusing to think that someone you were so close to could do this, as I have said it feels like I am dealing with a different person altogether when this happens, I really just want to help my best friend (her) in the times when she needs it but it would appear in her mind that i am the actual cause of her pain, I dont actually know if this is correct as she refuses to talk.

I'm reaching out for advice on whether this is a common reaction in BPD, what happens with our relationship going forward is very much in our hands. I struggle to understand what to do, if I just walk away what could the implications be for her, would I confirm what she has said before in as much she fears being abandoned by me which of course is the last thing i actually want to do.

I suppose right now my main concern should be myself   
             

[ChooseHappiness]

I understand my post may seem confusing in as much as what I want out the relationship, ultimately I want to have her the way she is most of the time however I am convinced she has uBPD or some other disorder which stops this happening.

I think everyone on these boards has at one point or another wanted their partner to be like they used to be or to be happy instead of disordered, etc. We want to help them because most of us are problem solvers or fixers -- and that is often why people with personality disorders are attracted to us. They are hoping we can fix their problems. But if they aren't willing to fix themselves or even recognize the problem is within them, then there's ultimately little we can do. And when our partners realize we aren't removing the chaos within them, then we become the problem to them.

My main concern at this point is for her actual health.

I hope your primary concern is for your actual health. It's very easy to be drawn into caretaker mode for a person with a personality disorder -- and to lose sight of your own physical and mental health as a result. Many people in such relationships end up with health problems, anxiety, depression, etc. Their own lives end up suffering because they are so focused on trying to fix the lives of others -- and this is often a futile attempt. I recommend reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. I found it very helpful in understanding personality disorders and the effect that caretaking someone with a BPD had on my own well-being.

It's so confusing to think that someone you were so close to could do this, as I have said it feels like I am dealing with a different person altogether when this happens, I really just want to help my best friend (her) in the times when she needs it but it would appear in her mind that i am the actual cause of her pain, I dont actually know if this is correct as she refuses to talk.

Do any of your other friends treat you this way?

I'm reaching out for advice on whether this is a common reaction in BPD

It certainly sounds like a classic case of splitting, but a trained therapist could provide a better answer.

I struggle to understand what to do, if I just walk away what could the implications be for her, would I confirm what she has said before in as much she fears being abandoned by me which of course is the last thing i actually want to do.

I suppose right now my main concern should be myself

   

It sounds like you are putting her feelings first, which is admirable in relationships when it's for short periods of time. We all need to support our partners and make sacrifices for them from time to time. When we are doing it all the time, we are in an unhealthy relationship and will ultimately pay the price. And there's a difference between abandoning someone and being driven away by them.

On one of the other boards there is a discussion about accepting people for who they are. That often means accepting they are not going to change because they are unwilling to change or incapable of it. When you realize someone is not going to change, it's actually very liberating because it takes the pressure off to "fix" them and allows you to prioritize yourself again. It was a pivotal moment for me in my relationship with my ex to finally realize she was never going to change no matter what I did for her, and that the only person whose life I could improve was my own.

I think you are correct: your main concern should be yourself. Work on yourself and let the relationship be whatever it will be. You can't control the relationship but you can control your own life.

I wish you the best with it.

[once removed]

breakup threats are destructive to a relationship over time.

in my relationship, i was the one that made them.

ideally, this is something where you want to build trust, and nip it in the bud. that will take some doing.

i imagine the two of you have spoken about the breakup threats? what does she say? what do you say?

[Lost Farmer]

I think everyone on these boards has at one point or another wanted their partner to be like they used to be or to be happy instead of disordered, etc. We want to help them because most of us are problem solvers or fixers -- and that is often why people with personality disorders are attracted to us. They are hoping we can fix their problems. But if they aren't willing to fix themselves or even recognize the problem is within them, then there's ultimately little we can do. And when our partners realize we aren't removing the chaos within them, then we become the problem to them.

This is very valid, on previous occasions when this has happened, I have just been so happy to have an apology and get back to the 'normal us' I have just let things go instead of addressing the matter, she has said many time's afterwards ' what is wrong with me'. On reflection I should have suggested some form of counselling for both of us initially     

I hope your primary concern is for your actual health. It's very easy to be drawn into caretaker mode for a person with a personality disorder -- and to lose sight of your own physical and mental health as a result. Many people in such relationships end up with health problems, anxiety, depression, etc. Their own lives end up suffering because they are so focused on trying to fix the lives of others -- and this is often a futile attempt. I recommend reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. I found it very helpful in understanding personality disorders and the effect that caretaking someone with a BPD had on my own well-being.

Do any of your other friends treat you this way?

A loaded question 
This has certainly made me think ... In normal day to day life I don't take much BS from anyone, if I don't like you, I don't like you, I move on and if your lucky I wont actually tell you  why. I'm very laid back to a point and have the view that I'd rather just not get involved than give myself any grief I do not need.    

It sounds like you are putting her feelings first, which is admirable in relationships when it's for short periods of time. We all need to support our partners and make sacrifices for them from time to time. When we are doing it all the time, we are in an unhealthy relationship and will ultimately pay the price. And there's a difference between abandoning someone and being driven away by them.

I've accepted that and already called her out on it in a brief email, which she has accepted and acknowledged, I'm really in control of my own emotions most of the time, the part I struggle with is the no explanation aspect and her just closing down, five year relationship apparently gone with no reason. WTF, (apologies)   

On one of the other boards there is a discussion about accepting people for who they are. That often means accepting they are not going to change because they are unwilling to change or incapable of it. When you realize someone is not going to change, it's actually very liberating because it takes the pressure off to "fix" them and allows you to prioritize yourself again. It was a pivotal moment for me in my relationship with my ex to finally realize she was never going to change no matter what I did for her, and that the only person whose life I could improve was my own.

This is frustrating, for me and her, I think she would welcome help if she asked at the right time (after an episode) however we've always just moved on, as you say it's not my job/place to fix her but I could have possibly pushed her in the right direction as maybe she was just needing someone to "suggest it" for her.   

I think you are correct: your main concern should be yourself. Work on yourself and let the relationship be whatever it will be. You can't control the relationship but you can control your own life.
100 % correct, change what you can change, accept what you cant and know the difference !
Thanks everyone, much appreciated   

I wish you the best with it.

[Notwendy]

To answer your question about levels, I think it's more like a spectrum and is variable. There are diagnostic criteria and common patterns but a person is still an individual. There can be variation in function- some people can be employed, some are low functioning and can't manage daily tasks. There can be additional issues such as substance abuse, or eating disorders or additonal mental illnesses. There can be overlap with the other PD's.

Posters can start here with "how to improve the relationship" and then reassess. I think with the milder behavioral issues - this may be more of a workable situation than more serious ones. It also depends on the behaviors and the willingness for the partner to tolerate them. Some partners may be more willing to work with some situations than others. I think many people want to try improvement first and see if that helps.

A person with BPD still has free will. They are generally considered to be legally competent to make their own decision. If they want to leave a relationship- they have that choice. I think some people think that because a person has BPD- they aren't capable of making that decision and something else needs to be done to get them to see that they are wrong, but we can not control someone else's feelings or thoughts and this includes people with BPD. It's confusing when their feelings change quickly but their feelings are their own to decide on.

It's hurtful to be "split"- sometimes it's temporary and some people choose to wait it out and sometimes, they do end relationships. As much as closure and understanding would be nice- sometimes it's hard to make sense of it or know why.

I think taking care of yourself during this difficult time is the right direction. She will do what she chooses to do.

[overwhelmed2]

I'm hardly an expert and my pwBPD is undiagnosed, so take w/ grain of salt, but IMHO, I agree with folks who view it as a 'spectrum' type of thing (like say Autism is viewed that way) and that there is variability.

I think my uBPDw is 'high functioning', for example, I think. And we have managed to stay married a long time.

But unfortunately, with a few major life changes (relocation, kids moving out); the relationship has actually gotten much more difficult and she directs a lot more accusations/splits at me and the rate of conflict between us is spiraling out of control.

She would exhibit a lot of BPDisms before; but now they are almost always directed at me and are threatening the relationship...

So, I would not necessarily take it as a given that someone's 'position' on that spectrum is fixed.

[ChooseHappiness]

So, I would not necessarily take it as a given that someone's 'position' on that spectrum is fixed.

Yes, this is a good observation. I was married to my ex for more than two decades, but it was only once we had kids that she really started to go off the rails. The older she got, the worse it became. She went from being very high-functioning and social to getting fired from her job and becoming estranged from everyone in her life in a few short years. So her position on the spectrum definitely shifted and continues to do so.

Plus, people with BPD are just people, too, and will go through the same life changes as everyone else. So it can make it hard to determine what is actually causing erratic behaviour.

[Lost Farmer]

All the comments above are very useful.

One of the reasons I asked is that for long periods months and months, we almost got to a year one time  , she is a wonderful person, I forgot to say she also suffers from depression but got meds which really help her. I have never suspected her of having any traits of  lying and cheating, I'd be really shocked but again never suspected her of it, that element never came in to our relationship, one thing i would say is that if I'm away with work and don't keep in touch, a quick text etc she can be a  bit "off" at times.
In the main I'd say more than 95% of the time we have an amazing relationship and are/were very close

This period of no contact/ghosting has been the worst yet and longest period, I should also say that we work for the same company so I have seen her at times over the last couple of weeks however..... she will not speak to me or even make eye contact and would appear to be very angry with me. This all began over a flippant remark I made on an evening out not aimed at her however she deemed it offensive and hasn't spoken since. I had belongings to collect from her and she initially suggested that she would bring them into work for me, I asked her not to do me the indignity of giving me my belongings in front of our colleagues then went and collected them, she had left them in her car. The little contact we have is by text.

Reading over this board has given me a lot to think about and I know what I "should" do however the only thing that I keep thinking is that I would regret forever leaving without her/us addressing this issue she has without us reaching out for help. As I have said before after previous episodes she has openly said "what is wrong with me ?". She speaks openly and explains how she felt during these episodes, she's convinced herself that she's doing the right thing that I was going to leave her so she was getting out first, that something I have said or done was intentional to upset her. She admits she takes to her bed when I'm not there and just ruminates which makes things worse.She will explain that she thinks she's not good enough for me and I deserve better as she is ruining my life and will continue to do so. Then, as she explains it a switch flicks in her head then she starts thinking OMG what I  have I actually done.

She has said she and her mother (who has passed) did not have a good relationship and I think there was an element of abuse involved, physical and verbal, she was also bullied quite badly at school (now in her late 40's), but she never actually relates it to her episodes or blames as such

I have read and watched many things regarding BPD over the last couple of weeks and am beginning to kind of understand elements. I'm struggling to get my head round whether she does it for a sort of narcisitic reason or it's just the BPD element kicking in that she really cant control. It's hard to understand how someone your so close with can do this to us then suddenly change back to their old self and be so remorseful and open about it.

I'm ready to consider moving on and although it hurts, it's probably the right thing to do but without giving some form of councelling a try first I would feel like I'm abandoning my best friend and soulmate when she really needed me most,if she had a broken leg I wouldn't leave her lying in the street, however I get that a broken leg could be fixed relatively easily.   I understand that this might not be the case and she's really just gone now which is something I can deal with but there's the frustrating element of "no closure" as right now she refuses to speak.

I'm strong enough to walk away and probably will do, with lots of wonderful memories in the main but would always wonder if it could have been made better with help.   

 
           

[Notwendy]

Yes, you want to understand but---

Our ability to understand this disorder is limited- we think one way and a person with BPD's thinking is disordered. We try to make sense of their actions and behavior through our own lenses. You want to understand why she "ghosted" you because it doesn't make sense to you why she'd choose to do this over one comment. There's no way to absolutely do that because we can not know what someone else is thinking.

"Borderline" is just that. If someone were psychotic- we'd see they are dissociated from reality. However, someone with BPD seems to us to have one foot in reality and one foot in their own thinking. It's confusing to us because we often can't tell which "foot" their thinking is at because it appears to be in line with our perception.

Relating to my BPD mother feels like one of those boxes of chocolates that you can't tell what is in the middle and there isn't a guide to them. One day, you get the ones with the good stuff in the middle and another day- the yukky ones. As much as you try to figure out a strategy to only get the good ones, you can't, and you can't just pick only them out of the box- a person is the entire box. So yes, they are good times and good qualities to them. Few people are all good or all bad.

You can't just fix a person to make them only the good parts. And by deciding they need to be fixed, or helped- you are in a sense, deciding there is something wrong with them and they need your help. For them to be receptive to help- they need to decide that for themselves. One difficult aspect of BPD is that there's a tendency to projection and denial. You see issues about them. They don't.

Although she has BPD, your ex seems to be a functional person. She is able to be employed. If she wants to speak to you, she can make that choice. If she feels she needs help- she likely knows how to schedule a counseling appointment. If she wants your help- she can ask for that too.

It's understandable to want some sort of closure but sometimes it's not an understandable situation.

[Lost Farmer]

Thank you Notwendy,

Everything you have said helps my understanding a little more.

Although there has been little contact, (I've never been initiated any) she has been in touch a few times and still appears to be dysregulated at the moment. I received a text message to say she is leaving work this week and she just wanted me to know so I wouldn't be shocked when I heard !, why would it matter when I heard whether it be before the event or at the same times as others .... this seems an impulsive move as she has a very well paid job that she is very good at and enoys. I just wished her all the best and said I hoped she had made a good choice with her new position. She then replied saying she jut needed a fresh start somewhere else and that she had other things going on....just throwing little things in there, of course I asked  and I probably shouldn't have, it appears during a health check at work last week her blood pressure was so high that the clinician called her doctor straight away. This had lead to her wearing some form of heart monitor for a week and had got some alarming results when it was checked.
The results are  kind of not surprising in the current situation however I would be almost certain she wont have told the Doc about what's happened recently. In my somewhat rational mind I wonder why would you change job when you have health issues, the company we work for has a full health benefits package and are very good at looking after employees in these situations. I did ask if she was leaving because of us and her reply was "no, I just need a fresh start somewhere else.... so that to me says yes, it is because of us.

Another text about some money she owed as I payed for some home repairs for her a few months back and did i want it back all at once or could she pay it over a few months as her new job doesn't pay as much as her current one, I just replied to do whatever way she wanted I'm fine either way.
My daughter told me she is going through stages of deleting social media then reinstating it the next day, she messaged my daughter to say that she would like to stay in touch with her if she wanted but before my daughter read it fully she deleted it !
Strange thing is last week she deleted my family from FB however when I checked she hadn't deleted me ! She appears to be very mixed up right now.

I've watched some Coach Ken stuff over the weekend and it's really helped, what I'm getting at with my ramblings above is that what she is doing is kind of classic BPD to me, in previous break up's I would have been all over her, telling her I love her, chasing her, it would be more than likely we have been back together right now however I realised after watching the videos I was as guilty in the cycle as her. She would come back and appear all remorseful and sorry then things would be great again for months and months until.. boom, of we go again.

Although I'm clear in what I need to do and still hurting,I miss the "good" her, I still find myself asking questions that will never be answered. Is she conscious of what she's doing/done in as much as does she kind of have a plan or is it just BPD taking over ?
The love she said she had for me was it real ?, it felt real. She, in general life, is such a nice person (or would appear so).

I'm taking Coach Ken's advice and projecting strength and  I'm getting stronger each day, the mornings are the worst.  This isn't with view a view to winning her back now  in fact I kind of dread the day she ever appears, that is when I would need real strength to turn away the person I love so much.

Hang in there everyone it's not easy.