Can't be together until you have a plan to change...

[usagi]

Hello forum,

Yesterday I went to visit my partner in the evening to just walk the dogs and catch up.  Her mom had been visiting and I haven't been spending much time with her lately.  We had a nice walk just chatting about the fun things that she'd been doing with her mom and son.  Just before I left for home she said that she didn't want to see me again until I had a plan for not saying hurtful things and "improving my communication".  This came completely out of the blue.  The last relationship conversation we had was about how she was disappointed that I didn't have more to say about my one on one with the couples therapist.  She said I looked surprised and that she didn't understand why I didn't remember the request.

We've been here before.  She's said that she doesn't want to see me until I start making changes.  Then she'll invite herself over to spend time together.  So I'm trying to figure out a good response to this request.  I honestly don't know what to do at this point.  Our problems are way deeper than communication issues.  I feel like all I can say is that I need to take responsibility for the things that I say and offer a sincere apology.  What I can't do is promise that nothing I say will "hurt her".  There's no plan for that.

What hurts her is when I want to talk about anything that hurts me.  It's so offensive to her.  That's what happened last weekend.

She's probably going to want to spend time anyway but I feel bad that I don't have a good response for her.

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[kells76]

Just before I left for home she said that she didn't want to see me again until I had a plan for not saying hurtful things and "improving my communication".

...

We've been here before.  She's said that she doesn't want to see me until I start making changes.  Then she'll invite herself over to spend time together. So I'm trying to figure out a good response to this request. 

...

She's probably going to want to spend time anyway but I feel bad that I don't have a good response for her.

In a "generally normal" relationship, partners might remember when one partner says something that hard-hitting ("you need to improve your communication and have a plan to stop being hurtful"), and then follow up on it in a verbal conversation where clarity and consensus are reached. And they might wait to spend time together, until after having that kind of conversation.

It doesn't sound like you're in a "generally normal" relationship. Verbal followup and conversations to gain clarity and responding to the literal words seem to make things worse.

I guess I'm wondering why you have to have a good response for her, if it won't help?

I wonder if you can focus on "doing" the relationship instead of "talking about the relationship" -- yes, OK, it would be better if she could have coherence between what she says and what she does, but it looks like despite what she's saying, she does choose to spend time with you. Is there a downside to not engaging with the wild stuff she says, and focusing on when you do spend time together, cultivating neutral to positive experiences?

The only exception I can think of is during the physical times you spend together, if she on her own brings up what she had said ("remember how I told you you needed to do XYZ"), consider finding a way to validate that that's important to her and that you'll talk about it with the T/encourage her to bring it up with the T/follow the plan or HW the T has for you in that area, etc. Something to say "Yes, AND" to her, maybe.

[usagi]

Thanks kells,

I suppose "good" is pretty subjective.  Her request is to come up with a way to not get into a 3 hour argument because I hurt her feelings.

To me, doing the relationship means making space to have quality time with my partner.  Maybe dinner out or some other activity like a nice walk or going to the lake.  And not discussing all the water under the bridge, for the umpteenth time.

I am reacting to her request that I have a plan before she spends time with me again.  This is where I don't want to be.  Knocked back on my heels trying to recover from something she says or demands.

[waverider]

Everything is your fault, that is the way it will always be, and you will be slow boiled into thinking thi sis the way it is.

Do what you think is appropriate based on your norms. Don't bend yourself to fit her perception of "norms".  If you have to confess and renounce imaginary sins to get her to come over then its not worth it. If she wants to see you she will, if she doesn't then she wont. Live with that. Its a dangerous drug be careful of the dependance that can come with it. You can loose who you are, and you wont know it until its too late

[usagi]

Thanks waverider,

This did not turn out the way I expected.  I had a good friend visiting from out of town this weekend.  Yesterday I was hanging out with him in the early afternoon and trying to coordinate when I'd be with my partner in the evening.  I asked her when she'd be free over text but then didn't hear from her for a bit.  I planned a short hike with my friend when she finally texted back and said how about 3.  I wrote back and said could we make it 4 because my friend and I was just about to head out.  She said sure.

Before I left town she asked if I could pick up some fish to cook for when I came.  "Sure no problem!"

Well, the hike took a little longer than expected.  My friend and I ended up getting back into town around 4:10.  I texted my partner that I was going to be late but very excited to see her.  I said I could maybe make it by 4:20 or 4:30.  She texted that I should bring my swimsuit so we could hit the pool when I got there.  Sure thing.

On the way to her place she texted that this was really bad.  She said she wasn't going to wait and would go swim by herself.  When I got there I had missed her heading to the pool.  So I took our dog, the fish I bought, and walked to the closest pool on the property.  Not there.  Went back to the apartment.  She sometimes leaves a key in the garage so I check.  No key.  Hop in the car and drive to the other pool.  Leave the dog and the fish in the car with the AC running and go check.  She's there.

When I walk up to her I hold my arms out and say I'm so so sorry I'm late but am excited to see you.  She just sort of repeated that this wasn't good.  We hadn't had time to ourselves for a while.  Her mom had been visiting from out of town and her son was with her.  Today she starts her job full time and was dreading it.  So she really wanted to see me to get "filled up."  She said "I can't see you now.  You didn't do what you said you would."  I tried to convince her to change her mind but she said no again.  I started walking away and she said "are you leaving?"  I said yes and that I had to take care of our dog and the fish because it was hot out.  She goes back to swimming and I go sit in the car.

I was hoping she'd finish up swimming quickly and I could meet her at the apartment.  When that didn't happen I left for home (a 5 minute drive away).  I knew this wouldn't be good for her but needed to take care of the food and dog.  On the way home she calls and says in a frantic voice "where are you?"  She asked me to come back so we could talk.

When I got there she wanted to talk about why I didn't make her a priority that day.  I tried to explain that I just misjudged how long the hike would take and was very sorry I hurt her feelings.  We spent the next half hour going around in circled on that topic.  She then asked for my friend's contact information.  I said "why do you want that".  She just repeated her request so I gave it to her.  I said maybe I should go on a walk to give us some space.  She agreed so I took one of the dogs and left.

While I was gone my friend said that she had called him.  I asked about what they talked about and he said it was her story to tell.  He's a therapist and generally tried to protect peoples privacy.  I walked the dog for a bit and then headed back.  When I got there we talked some more about the same subject.  She feels that I haven't made her a priority for the last year.  She's also upset that I didn't confess all my relationship sins to the therapist when I had my one on one.  So she said she won't go to see our couples counselor until I meet with her and talk through all the details of what has happened over the past year.  This really broke my heart but I agreed I could try to get in before her Tuesday appointment.

Last night she called and we talked more about what happened.  Basically the same conversation rehashed.  She said she hadn't eaten all all day and didn't think she could sleep.  We finally said our good nights and ended the call.  I went to sleep but saw that she called my phone four times and tried a couple of Facetimes around midnight.

I'll reach out to the therapist today to see what I can do with our schedule.  My partner texted last night that she doesn't want to see me outside of therapy right now.  It's just too painful for us to spend time together.  I always put other things ahead of her.

Feeling pretty worn out this morning.  I didn't sleep at all last night.  It's extremely frustrating that the margin for error is so small with her.  I realize that I can't avoid hurting her feelings but when they are hurt now it's a major life event that threatens to end our relationship.  That's a lot to bear.

I did a good job yesterday not getting angry or lashing out.  I tried to offer support and be empathetic.  I owned my mistake and recognized how it hurt her.  I tried to talk about how I was looking forward to spending time with her.  She just kept going around in a circle about how I put others ahead of her.

Just looking for some support this morning but of course any advice is always welcome.

Thank you forum...

[kells76]

Given past relationship history, what do you think are the next few things that are likely to happen?

[usagi]

Hi kells,

I think it is likely that she'll want to see me again pretty soon.  It's hard for her to see me if she thinks she'll be triggered but I'm sure it will want to get back together.  Once she gets through this first full day at work and gets some rest, I think she'll be in a better place.  Yesterday was a big whammy for her with her mom going back home and her son going back to his dad's place.  She was overwhelmed and completely couldn't handle my being late.

I did get a hold of the couples therapist this morning.  She's available for me to talk on the phone and explain more of the details of what's been happening in our relationship.  So I'll be able to get that done soon and hopefully she'll still go tomorrow evening.

[usagi]

Hi forum,

Yesterday while I was talking with my partner, she asked to have my friend's contact information.  The one who was visiting me.  I agreed and texted it to her.

She did call him and talk for a bit about what was going on.  She said that I was the cause of all her pain.  She also said that as my friend maybe he could convince me to break up with her.

I think that she's just overwhelmed by her pain and wants out.  She said she'll go to therapy tomorrow but I'm not holding out any hope of change at the moment.  I feel like I'm somehow dragging this out under the false hope that she can make any changes.

I spoke with the couples therapist this afternoon just the two of us.  At the end of the call she said that my partner will not change.  In her opinion, we can attend couples therapy together until I've had enough and call it quits.  At that point the relationship will end.

It sounds all hopeless.

[kells76]

I spoke with the couples therapist this afternoon just the two of us.  At the end of the call she said that my partner will not change.  In her opinion, we can attend couples therapy together until I've had enough and call it quits.  At that point the relationship will end.

You've done 2-3 appointments with this new CT, correct?

What do you think about the CT's assessment?

Did the CT think you were still contributing to the dynamic? Do you think you are?

[usagi]

Thanks kells,

We have do one session together (the initial one), I've done a one on one, I've had a one on one phone call, and my partner has a one on one this evening.

I think the CT is trying to be realistic and give me advice based on her experience.  She's seen lots of couples with this situation.  She basically laid out three scenarios.

1.  I give up on holding my boundaries in exchange for a smoother relationship and I stay with her.
2.  I continue to hold my boundaries and have a more explosive relationship with my partner.
3.  End the relationship.

The CT is saying that she recommends that we both keep attending therapy even though the outcome is likely not what I'd like.  She says that I'll definitely learn some things about myself and how to conduct my self in a relationship which would be a benefit to me.  She didn't say much about the benefit to my partner.

The CT also said that she would make an effort to start to challenge my partner after they've developed a rapport, but in a gentle way.

The CT did not comment on how I was contributing to the dynamic.  I think she's still really in just the intake mode at the moment.

So my friend finally told me what he discussed with my partner on Sunday.  Apparently she was trying to convince my friend to encourage me to break up with her.  And just yesterday she texted me that she's trying to get her friends to help her stay away from me for good.  She said that she's never been in so much pain.

I feel like this is a step up in the language she's used before.  It sounds like I'm torturing her.

The CT said that it's obvious that my partner adores me.  But the emotional pain she experiences when she doesn't get what she wants from the relationship is overwhelming.