Should I ask for a psychological evaluation?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I finally got in touch with my lawyer. She's writing a new divorce petition to re-file for divorce. I told her I wanted some changes to the one that was "accidentally" served to my H a month before I was ready. My H spent the first week or two after that reading it over and over again and getting outraged about various points in there.

This weekend I'm going to go through the petition point by point and then let her know what I want to keep and what I want to take out (which is what I intended to do before she filed it the first time).

Some of the things in there H was angry about are things I also want taken out, like ordering him to vacate the house. That's unnecessary now that I've moved out and taken most of my stuff, so I asked the lawyer to remove that part.

There were also a lot of things that he was blowing out of proportion. He seemed to think that he's going to be forced to sell the house AND all of his possessions and then split the money with me. I told him that if that was the norm when people get divorced, we'd probably have heard about it before. He also seemed to think that giving me the right to "designate the primary residence of the child" means I could take D4 and move to another state, or even another country. Apparently he doesn't know about geographic restrictions.

So I'm leaving those things in there, because eventually he'll find out they're not as bad as he thinks they are (of course when I tried to explain it to him, he didn't believe me, because he's an expert on everything and I never know what I'm talking about), or they're things that he still won't like, but too bad, because that's what I want (like me getting primary custody of D4).

But there's one thing in there that he was extremely offended by that I'm not sure if I should leave in or not, and that's a request for a psychological evaluation.

He thinks that means that he'll be put through this evaluation, probably by some unqualified hack the court appoints, and then if he doesn't follow their stupid recommendations and probably take some kind of powerful drugs, he'll be forbidden from ever seeing D4 again. And of course that's completely ridiculous because he has no history of mental illness and there's absolutely nothing wrong with his mental health, and he's an excellent father and should never be kept from D4.

Now, on the other hand, when I told my therapist about this, she said "that doesn't sound like a bad idea." She then added that I'll probably have to have one too, but she said that should be no problem for me.

One worry I have is that he'd do the psych eval, and they'd find that there's nothing wrong with him. I know people with PD's can be good at acting normal when they need to. Then maybe I'd look bad for even asking for one to begin with, and he'd probably use it as definitive proof that he's absolutely fine and there's nothing wrong with him (because to him, experts never know what they're talking about, unless they agree with him, and then that's proof that he's right). Then maybe that would make things even worse than if I hadn't asked for it.

Also, I guess I need to think about what's the point of doing the psych eval anyway. My lawyer said it's in case he seeks primary custody of D4. I was thinking maybe the better strategy for that is to somehow prove that I've been the primary caretaker of D4 her whole life, therefore it would be in her best interests for me to be primary conservator, rather than trying to accuse H of being mentally ill or a bad parent.

And another thing I'm worried about is that he might try to accuse me of being the mentally ill one so he gets primary custody instead (or at least 50/50). In the past he has accused me of being autistic, or a psychopath, or having clinical depression. I remember a couple of times he even told me he was afraid that I'd "drown [D4] in the bathtub like Andrea Yates." The night he was first served, I said something about him fighting in front of her all the time, and how bad that is for her, and he shouted, "YOU BEAT HER! I'M GOING TO TELL THE COURTS THAT YOU BEAT HER!" (Though, he's also told me several times that when he's angry he says stuff he doesn't mean, and I shouldn't pay attention to any of it. Since then I've even brought up that he accused me of beating her, and he says he doesn't remember saying that.)

Since I moved out he's been texting me and emailing me saying to need to get my depression treated rather than divorcing him. So maybe if I get him to do a psych eval, and then he requests that I take one too, that would be a good thing? My therapist is sure I would pass, and then that would get rid of any accusations of mental illness he might try to throw at me.

Also, if H does a psych eval, and doesn't pass, what happens then? I seriously doubt it would be as bad for him as he says it is, but I really don't know what would happen.

So do any of you have experience with this? Was it worth it? Did it help your case any? Did it make things worse?

[Gerda]

I finally got in touch with my lawyer. She's writing a new divorce petition to re-file for divorce. I told her I wanted some changes to the one that was "accidentally" served to my H a month before I was ready. My H spent the first week or two after that reading it over and over again and getting outraged about various points in there.

This weekend I'm going to go through the petition point by point and then let her know what I want to keep and what I want to take out (which is what I intended to do before she filed it the first time).

Some of the things in there H was angry about are things I also want taken out, like ordering him to vacate the house. That's unnecessary now that I've moved out and taken most of my stuff, so I asked the lawyer to remove that part.

There were also a lot of things that he was blowing out of proportion. He seemed to think that he's going to be forced to sell the house AND all of his possessions and then split the money with me. I told him that if that was the norm when people get divorced, we'd probably have heard about it before. He also seemed to think that giving me the right to "designate the primary residence of the child" means I could take D4 and move to another state, or even another country. Apparently he doesn't know about geographic restrictions.

So I'm leaving those things in there, because eventually he'll find out they're not as bad as he thinks they are (of course when I tried to explain it to him, he didn't believe me, because he's an expert on everything and I never know what I'm talking about), or they're things that he still won't like, but too bad, because that's what I want (like me getting primary custody of D4).

But there's one thing in there that he was extremely offended by that I'm not sure if I should leave in or not, and that's a request for a psychological evaluation.

He thinks that means that he'll be put through this evaluation, probably by some unqualified hack the court appoints, and then if he doesn't follow their stupid recommendations and probably take some kind of powerful drugs, he'll be forbidden from ever seeing D4 again. And of course that's completely ridiculous because he has no history of mental illness and there's absolutely nothing wrong with his mental health, and he's an excellent father and should never be kept from D4.

Now, on the other hand, when I told my therapist about this, she said "that doesn't sound like a bad idea." She then added that I'll probably have to have one too, but she said that should be no problem for me.

One worry I have is that he'd do the psych eval, and they'd find that there's nothing wrong with him. I know people with PD's can be good at acting normal when they need to. Then maybe I'd look bad for even asking for one to begin with, and he'd probably use it as definitive proof that he's absolutely fine and there's nothing wrong with him (because to him, experts never know what they're talking about, unless they agree with him, and then that's proof that he's right). Then maybe that would make things even worse than if I hadn't asked for it.

Also, I guess I need to think about what's the point of doing the psych eval anyway. My lawyer said it's in case he seeks primary custody of D4. I was thinking maybe the better strategy for that is to somehow prove that I've been the primary caretaker of D4 her whole life, therefore it would be in her best interests for me to be primary conservator, rather than trying to accuse H of being mentally ill or a bad parent.

And another thing I'm worried about is that he might try to accuse me of being the mentally ill one so he gets primary custody instead (or at least 50/50). In the past he has accused me of being autistic, or a psychopath, or having clinical depression. I remember a couple of times he even told me he was afraid that I'd "drown [D4] in the bathtub like Andrea Yates." The night he was first served, I said something about him fighting in front of her all the time, and how bad that is for her, and he shouted, "YOU BEAT HER! I'M GOING TO TELL THE COURTS THAT YOU BEAT HER!" (Though, he's also told me several times that when he's angry he says stuff he doesn't mean, and I shouldn't pay attention to any of it. Since then I've even brought up that he accused me of beating her, and he says he doesn't remember saying that.)

Since I moved out he's been texting me and emailing me saying to need to get my depression treated rather than divorcing him. So maybe if I get him to do a psych eval, and then he requests that I take one too, that would be a good thing? My therapist is sure I would pass, and then that would get rid of any accusations of mental illness he might try to throw at me.

Also, if H does a psych eval, and doesn't pass, what happens then? I seriously doubt it would be as bad for him as he says it is, but I really don't know what would happen.

So do any of you have experience with this? Was it worth it? Did it help your case any? Did it make things worse?

[AskingWhy]

BPD partners often allege the non-BPD partner of being crazy.

Either we enter the relationship already depressed and vulnerable, or the relationship makes us depressed.  Sometimes physical illness will set in, as it did with me.

After nearly 30 years with my uBPD H, I'm finally seriously contemplating divorce.  Our medical insurance, which has excellent coverage, is what we're using for healthcare.  In a fit of rage this week, he treatened divorce (as he has done since the year we married), saying he'd strip me of health insurance.

He's still enmeshed from his younger uNPD D, a married mother of small children, and estranged from his older uBPD daughter who lives across the country (history of suicide attempts, promiscuity, quitting jobs, etc.) 

My health is suffering from the latest round of rejecting me.   If I file for divorce, he might start begging me not to leave or, conversely, escalate the verbal and psychological abuse to physical.   Earlier this week he kicked in a kitchen cabinet door off its hinges.

I know he's BPD.  My own therapist cautioned me against "diagnosing" him, insisting that only a trained therapist can diagnose people.  She's invalidating what I know and patronizing  me. I diagnosed my own grandchild's ASD and his older daughter's BPD and drug addiction. Some therapists are useless.

[ParentingThruIt]

I am wresting with the same question presently so I can't give you a long term perspective. If you search for my thread on Guardian Ad Litem you'll see some answers there.

I have asked for a psych eval but didn't get one court ordered. I asked for a Guardian ad Litem and it sounds like I will get one. That is an eval from the kids' perspective of what is best for them. It seems like my only avenue to get some of his issues documented. Like you, I am not sure if it will work. On the other hand, he tends to blow up about certain sensitive issues, and responds the way your ex has to the court documents I file. In the docs I try hard to be truthful but also to leave a trail of facts to refer to and to refer to prior docs, like police reports.

Even though they didn't order a psych eval for him, I think it's had a positive impact that my message has been consistent -- I am not trying to estrange him from the kids, I am trying to make sure he's a safe parent; recent behavior prior to my having him vacated was not totally safe. Asking for a psych eval - even if you don't get one - is a way to communicate your concerns clearly to the judge. And if something of concern happens in the future it will support your credibility in anticipating the risk and looking out for your daughter.

The advice I've gotten is to stay as consistent as you can. The book Splitting is also helpful - it's a good listen on Audible and you can skip ahead to the most relevant info.

Best of luck.

[ForeverDad]

IMHO ... a psych eval is of limited benefit.  Nothing wrong with requesting it but you just can't expect too much from it.  One of the reasons is that it probably won't address how well or poorly the individual can or would parent.

The divorce would separate the parents' lives - the marriage would be of course eventually be ended - but what would continue in most circumstances is custody and parenting, an entirely separate issue which a few hours in a psych eval don't even attempt to address.

I've written extensively about my experience and observations so I'll post some excerpts for you to ponder.

Psych Evals are a quick overview of a person.  Mine said I had "anxiety".   However, if there are children involved then the psych eval is too quick a summary to give a clear picture how well her parenting is.  That's the domain of a Custody Evaluation if custody and parenting time is contested.  That's expensive and usually take months or more.  Though her medical records may give the court an indication.  Be aware that if the court agrees to require the other's medical records, it may require yours too.

Early in my separation we were both ordered to get a Psych Eval.  I spent an hour or so filling out forms and a test plus a brief interview by a college grad student.  My result was "anxiety".  Hers?  I never found out.  For all I know she never even complied with the order.  That was it, the lawyers simply moved on.

We had a court order psych evals early in our case for both of us.  That started as a good thing but I flubbed it.  The risk with such orders is three-fold.  First, if only you get ordered to comply then you are typically seen as the accused and the other as the victim, not good.  You need the other parent to be scrutinized too!  If any order could cast you as the perp or let the other parent avoid being scrutinized, then if at all possible, get any ordered evaluations applied to both of you.  Second, these are only an overview of a person's mental state and don't even try to assess the impact on parenting and the children.  Third, the other spouse may not comply.  That's what happened to me.

During my separation in 2005-2006 we both were ordered to submit to psych evals and provide our results to the court and lawyers.  I complied.  (The quickie eval concluded I had "anxiety".)  Then silence.  Where was then-stbEx's eval?  To this day I still haven't seen it nor do I know whether she even got a psych eval at all...

My conclusion:  Any order, deal or process where both of you have to do something and provide it to the court and lawyers, you cannot risk complying first.  There is real risk the other side will simply not comply and not even be held accountable.  So I advocate this in such situations:  Tell your lawyer you have complied, maybe even provide the results to your lawyer but then instruct your lawyer to hold it (sort of as is done in escrow) until the other party is ready to exchange the results.

What I did was ask for an in-depth Custody Evaluation and fortunately we chose a respected child psychologist as the custody evaluator.  That was important, too many possible evaluators could be rookie lawyers.  Often real experts don't want to bother with complicated cases that could take many months to complete.  Be forewarned that a CE is expensive.

My divorce process spanned some two years, longer than most reported here but certainly not unheard of in our sort of cases.  My then-stbEx had a very favorable temp order - which no one except me thought it needed adjustments, after all it was on "temporary" - so she delayed the case whenever she could.  So we slogged through every possible requirement, plus a few continuances she requested.  The list: brief temp order hearing, parenting classes, mediation attempts, parenting investigation*, custody evaluation, settlement conference attempt and finally trial.  My ex settled at the last possible moment, "on the court house steps" as I arrived on Trial Day.

* I recall now that I wasn't the one to ask for a Custody Evaluation, the court's parenting investigator (counselor) did.  She stated her licensing by the state did not permit her to make recommendations regarding custody.