Help

[meditatorguy]

Hey guys.

Dating a borderline for 8 months.

Love her so much.

I have some cognitive impairment and likely codependent.

We broke up and got back together so many times.

So in love with each other though.

She would never stop talking to her ex.

After one breakup she kept telling me I should date other women and I got confused.  Eventually she talked me into it.  Then I did it and she was furious.  I think she was testing me but I got confused.

After that she was super mean so I dated more women to try and move on.  But I didn’t really want to because I still loved her.  Like after hooking up with a new girl I cried thinking about her.

At this point she called her ex to rekindle. He started buying a house to let her live in rent free even though he has a girlfriend.

She told me she was busy working a lot but she was lying and working on this house with him.  She stopped calling me and later told me she was calling him.  We had gotten back together and she said she was more in love with me than she had ever been with anyone else.  I’m only her second partner.  Then while we were together she went to dinner with him.

I told her I wasn’t ok with it and it made me want to kill myself but she didn’t care.

Then she stopped calling and months later admitted she was taking to him instead of me.

Instead of pursuing her and finding out what was going on I stupidly gave her space.

So she was doing this while still my girlfriend.  Then she broke up with me again for she me bullPLEASE READ reasons and worked on getting this house set up.

I dated some other women since my therapist encouraged me to.  But she’s mad I did that.

She still loves me and I’m still the only one she’s sleeping with but she refuses to give up on that house and move into the house I rented for us to live in together.

It’s killing me, I’m close to shooting myself.  I was the happiest person you’d ever meet before I met her.  She ruined my life.

I’m getting help from family and therapists and suicide hotlines and crisis teams.  I’m attractive and many other women like me but it’s just not the same with other girls, they’re so boring and her and I are still in love.

This is driving me insane, please help me!

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family!  You've been through a lot and I'm so sorry you're stuck on this rollercoaster.  Hopefully we can help you find a better mindset to navigate these next few days.

First, let's start with BPD and the vicious cycles it presents.  Nobody compares to your ex because when you first started dating, she liked everything you liked and subconsciously tried to be your perfect partner.  It was all about pleasing you and placing you on a pedestal. 

Over time though, something happened...it could have been the smallest, most insignificant thing...and she became worried that you weren't the man she placed on that pedestal.  So she started self sabotaging the relationship and looked for reasons to run.  This was her own emotions working against her and causing chaos in her mind, which led to chaos in the relationship. 

So you heard things like, "Let's date other people...why did you date other people!?!"  These statements made sense to her in the moment, even though it's not what she wanted or needed.  That's the BPD spiral and its devastating to everyone involved.

Meanwhile, she was likely putting the new guy on a pedestal...until she realized he wasn't perfect either...so she came running back and the cycle restarted.  More great memories, more chaos, more confusion.  It's a clear pattern and honestly, it has nothing to do with you.  This is about mental health and not being stable.

So what do you do right now?  First, get some real help.  You can't comprehend what's happening because it's just too unbelievable.  How can this possibly happen?  Again, it's mental health and it's not your fault.  She doesn't understand it either, even though this happens in every relationship in her life.

You posted in detaching, so the advice you'll receive is to help you move on from this relationship.  But regardless if you give it another try or not, step one is to get immediate help.  Maybe that means a brief hospital stay, just long enough for you to come to terms with this.  If that's not possible, then stay with a family member or close friend.  You desperately need that support right now.

Step two is to get busy doing anything that makes you feel like you.  Maybe that's old hobbies, side work, travel, exercise....whatever.  Get around friends and get busy.  Do not stay home alone right now since that will work against you.

Surely you have some questions- please ask away and tell us how we can help.

[jaded7]

Hi Mediatorguy....

What you've described here is very, very hurtful and confusing. Pook did a good job of explaining some of what's going on.

These relationships are extremely difficult to navigate, with the push pull and the obvious untruths...and testing. She seems to do a lot
of testing. A person with a good heart and trying to do the right thing will fail these tests, then the partner blames us for failing the
test and then does something that hurts us for failing the test we couldn't pass in the first place.

Testing is a manipulation, and is disrespectful and abusive. You cannot read someone's mind, and a healthy person does not
test and expect you to read their mind. You were trying to do the right thing, the thing she told you to do, for the relationship.

I just want to tell you that you aren't stupid. You aren't stupid for giving her space. She was not honoring you or the relationship by talking
to this other guy, and ALL the other things she was doing. Giving her space so you could take care of yourself is a perfectly normal
and fine thing to do in the face of all this confusion and hurtful behavior.

Please DO use the hotlines whenever you feel like you need to. That's why they are there! The fine people who staff these lines
WANT to help others, that's why they do it. I myself called them and it was helpful to me.

And really good job posting on the board here. Everyone here has experienced some form of what you are describing. We get this, and
we help each other out....especially on those bad days.


Can you do a little research today on how you might be able to get more intensive assistance? Can you call the hotline if you are feeling really bad?

[try2heal]

I've been trying to figure out why these relationships feel sooooo good so early, and this infographic on "Love Bombing" in abusive relationships came across my desk. I think it's helpful and it's a reminder that BPD relationships are often abusive or can easily become so. https://gbvlearningnetwork.ca/our-work/infographics/love-bombing/Love-Bombing-Infographic.pdf

[ParentingThruIt]

It will take space from her to grieve this relationship and make other connections. it will be hard and painful, the pain is real even though the issues were real too. The feelings of attachment to her will take time to resolve, but you can choose to hold the boundary and reduce/end contact with her. (she may not like it and it may take work to hold that boundary.)

You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it for her.  But you can take care of yourself.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[meditatorguy]

Thanks for All the kind words and support everyone.  Yes I’ve been calling the hotlines a lot.

Last time I saw her she said she was my girlfriend again and wanted me to get her pregnant.  Then she flaked on coming over two days in a row which she promised she wouldn’t do.

She’s supposed to bring my parking pass tomorrow, no idea what to expect.

I think she’s going to either totally stop talking to me or want to sleep with me and the ex husband at the same time or maybe still just with me.  I really have no idea.

I miss her and am not doing great but feel better now but then get hit by waves of pain and crying.  Meditating is good, I meditated two hours this morning plus hiked 7 miles, did therapy, called the hotline, talked to my mom a bunch.

My mom is a therapist and wants me to do an intensive outpatient program.

[meditatorguy]

I think the hardest part is I feel like she called her ex because I slept with someone else when we broke up.  My mom and uncle said I didn’t do anything wrong but she says that’s why she’s not calling me now.  But she really hurt my feelings when she told me to date other women but no kissing or sex but then. Got so mad when I went on one innocent coffee date where nothing happened she said she didn’t like me and didn’t want me and hung up on me.

I thought we’d never talk again and I was hurting so much so I thought it was ok to get to know someone else, but then she started texting me that she missed me a week later!  That was when we got back together that time, but she had already called her ex and he had floated the idea of buying her a house.

It’s so confusing with all the breakups and lying and talking to her ex while we’re still together.

[jaded7]

I think the hardest part is I feel like she called her ex because I slept with someone else when we broke up.  My mom and uncle said I didn’t do anything wrong but she says that’s why she’s not calling me now.  But she really hurt my feelings when she told me to date other women but no kissing or sex but then. Got so mad when I went on one innocent coffee date where nothing happened she said she didn’t like me and didn’t want me and hung up on me.

I thought we’d never talk again and I was hurting so much so I thought it was ok to get to know someone else, but then she started texting me that she missed me a week later!  That was when we got back together that time, but she had already called her ex and he had floated the idea of buying her a house.

It’s so confusing with all the breakups and lying and talking to her ex while we’re still together.

It's really, really good what you are doing. I especially love the long, long hikes. There is good research out there that shows
how important exercise is, especially when done in nature. Something about being in nature alone is good for mental health
and stress reduction. And exercise is VERY good for reducing the stress response and healing the brain. Meditating as well.

You feel like you did something wrong, but as you can see she is sending confusing messages. Our partners very often send
confusing messages, and then try to make it look like we caused the issue or problem. It is super, super common. And then we feel
that we did something to cause them to go away from us, and they want us to feel that way. It's part of the overall dynamics of it all.

How great that your mom is a therapist! I would take her advice. She knows you, loves you, and is trained in mental health.

The waves of pain and crying are not unusual Mediatorguy. I've experienced them myself. And many others here. Not fun, I know, but
you can begin to recognize they are waves that will come and go. Not permanent. Not forever.

These tests she puts your though are the person's way of maintaining power and control. So is, by the way, hanging up on someone.
pwBPD will very often need to control things through manipulations and gaslighting and...yes...hanging up on someone. Plus many more ways. This seems to be their way of maintaining equilibrium in their minds. It's hard to understand, but it is common.

[meditatorguy]

Thanks jaded7 for the very kind and understanding and validating reply.  I really appreciate it.  Ya I didn’t lie or cheat so nothing to feel bad about, true. I’m very ethical and I’m proud of that despite this crazy relationship where it would have been easier to lie.  But I’m proud I didn’t.  She sure did.

I still see her.  It’s confusing as hell.  But she’s interested in her ex and says she has two men, so I need to keep dating and move on since this is not healthy.

Thanks.

[jaded7]

Thanks jaded7 for the very kind and understanding and validating reply.  I really appreciate it.  Ya I didn’t lie or cheat so nothing to feel bad about, true. I’m very ethical and I’m proud of that despite this crazy relationship where it would have been easier to lie.  But I’m proud I didn’t.  She sure did.

I still see her.  It’s confusing as hell.  But she’s interested in her ex and says she has two men, so I need to keep dating and move on since this is not healthy.

Thanks.

Happy to be here. Know what you're going through. I'm also proud myself that I didn't do things that I would regret now, or beat myself up for. Isn't it funny that
THEY don't seem to beat themselves up for things they did? A clue there to these relationships....they love people like us with morals and ethics and caring hearts, because we often have few boundaries and are easily guilted and manipulated. That me, for sure.

The things I could tell you Mediatorguy about what she called me and manipulations she did. WHOAH. But I never yelled at her, never called her names, never even
raised my voice. I'm proud of myself for that. She, on the other hand, has to push it all away deep inside in order to not feel it.

What do you think about the intensive outpatient? Have you thought more about it?

[meditatorguy]

Thanks.  I think I’m a bit better since I went back on my full dose of a sleeping pill that is also an antidepressant.  But I saw her this weekend and we had an amazing time but when she left I felt really used and had to call the hotline again.  But then I had a breakthrough in my professional life that helped.

She says if I have more money she’ll stop taking to her ex and be with me 100%, and with the recent breakthrough it might happen.  My mom says I can’t trust her though, so I don’t know what to do.  She said she’d be exclusive with me and not sleep with the ex which I think is progress.  She never did but threatened to once but now she says she won’t.

The push pull does my head in.

[seekingtheway]

Oh gosh, love that is so conditional on you having or doing certain things is a painful love indeed.

I understand the feeling of wanting to be close to your ex when all you're feeling is pain and confusion, like they are the only one who can ease that pain you're feeling. But there's a lot of grief in this process regardless, including the fact that you're not being chosen for exactly who you are in this moment in time.

I just wanted to reach out and say I feel for you, it's clear how difficult this is for you. When you're in an addicted state, it's not as simple as walking away. I get that. So it's baby steps, keep doing things for you that feel good and are not tied to your ex. Try and keep sight of yourself and your worth. I'm sorry that she doesn't treat you the way you deserve.

[meditatorguy]

thanks.  my therapist said I should try active listening.  she was saying she's never going to stop seeing her ex alone one on one even if we're married.  she had said she probably wanted to get married, and she invited me to a trip in a few months, and she said she loved me more and was in love with me.  she said she told her ex she had a boyfriend and wouldn't sleep with him.

and I was being sweet to her, trying to joke with her and be lighthearted and make her laugh.  then out of the blue she was so angry, like a completely different person I didn't recognize, and she said leave me alone, we're done, I'm going to sleep with other men and I want to see how much it hurts you.

that's pure evil, I mean she is being sociopathic, literally wanting to hurt me to get off on it.

[HealthTeacher]

Whoa, dude... it honestly sounds like she has antisocial personality disorder (APD).

https://www.grouporttherapy.com/blog/borderline-personality-disorder-vs-antisocial-personality-disorder#:~:text=A%20significant%20difference%20lies%20in,their%20actions%20that%20harm%20others.

Excerpt:
Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder

Some common symptoms of ASPD include:

Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
Being callous, cynical, and disrespectful of others
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
Arrogance, a sense of superiority, and being extremely opinionated
Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression, or violence

My father has APD... and because of that, he is essentially irredeemable. He's in his early 60s and has ruined every relationship in his life... no friends... no family... alcoholism... and it's honestly very sad.


Another excerpt:
Remorse for Harmful Behavior
A significant difference lies in the capacity for remorse. Those with BPD often feel guilt or shame for their actions, significantly if they harm others. In contrast, individuals with ASPD are typically unremorseful about their actions that harm others.

Obviously, we are not here to diagnose, as that is beyond the scope of practice... but what you are describing DOES sound evil.

When my mom was leaving my dad and experiencing the very pain that everyone in here experiences... he was cheating... He told my mom that the woman he was cheating with had a child with neurodevelopmental disabilities and that the kid annoyed him, so he told her he would see if that ended up being a deal-breaker for him, and if it was, he would come back to her. The very nerve of someone unapologetically telling another person they are nothing but an option... and that they expect you to wait for them... with no respect or remorse. Typical APD. Also typical of the APD to want to see you squirm... like your ex.

I am so sorry... I know second-hand how this feels. I have never been romantically involved with a person with APD but through the experience of my mother... it's some of the most painful torture that exists.