Fed Up and Planning Ahead

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I was hoping to get some input here regarding my situation (and to get my own thoughts straight through a little bit of venting).  

I have been married to my wife for almost a decade after a brief period of dating.  At the time, it seemed like the perfect match.  While dating, there were some signs of instability, but we were young, and she had been relatively sheltered; I assumed she would mature with age.  

Unfortunately, that has not happened.  Soon after our wedding I began to notice more and more erratic, impulsive and selfish behavior.  The examples are familiar:  holidays, anniversaries and birthdays could never be drama-free; perceived slights from me, her family, my family, her friends, her coworkers, etc. would be blown way out of proportion; she would shift her interests and goals every few months, throwing herself into something entirely only to regret it later. Now, even after multiple children, she is the same and worse, raging at and demeaning me, and regularly threatening divorce and/or suicide. 

My patience has been worn out.  I am now weighing if and when to pursue a divorce.  She has already had some personal therapy and we have worked with a couples therapist (who confided that he thought she may have a personality disorder), but none of it seems to have resolved any of my wife's issues.
 
Looking ahead at a potential divorce, the biggest issues seem to be spousal support and custody.  
I have a demanding but well paying career with good prospects. Although a divorce would of course be a significant financial setback, I think within five years things would be the same as or better than they are today. I at least would not be spending every spare dime trying to appease my wife.  

In contrast, my wife has flipped back and forth between working and staying at home, and was fired from the last full-time job she had (as well as each of her previous full-time jobs).  I think it will be difficult for her to find a high-paying job without having to go back to school for a professional degree, not to mention keeping the job and balancing the demands of children, etc. She would certainly experience a decline in her living standards, which would be a big shock for her.

I imagine the court would initially favor her in a custody dispute.  She presents well and, because she only works part-time, has a more flexible schedule.  That said, she doesn't like taking care of the kids and seems to think having a full-time job would solve all of her problems.  

I already do probably 40%+ of the childcare right now (weekends plus getting them ready for the day and putting them to bed, most of their laundry--basically, if I'm in the house, I am caring for the kids and she is in her own world).  Her family is aware of her behavior and believes she has a personality disorder. They are supportive of me, as is my family, and I expect they would "take my side" in a custody dispute.  Moreover, I have years of recordings and contemporaneous notes showing her pattern of outbursts.  I am hopeful these factors would help me in a potential custody dispute.  

I am finishing up Bill Eddy's book Splitting and getting my ducks in a row to talk to lawyers.  Is there anything else I should do, weaknesses in my thinking or other advice or words of wisdom?  Am I perhaps being too dismissive of her ability to change?

It is very sad that things have come to this point, and I have been feeling pretty foolish for letting this go on this long. 

[Pretty Foolish]

I was hoping to get some input here regarding my situation (and to get my own thoughts straight through a little bit of venting).  

I have been married to my wife for almost a decade after a brief period of dating.  At the time, it seemed like the perfect match.  While dating, there were some signs of instability, but we were young, and she had been relatively sheltered; I assumed she would mature with age.  

Unfortunately, that has not happened.  Soon after our wedding I began to notice more and more erratic, impulsive and selfish behavior.  The examples are familiar:  holidays, anniversaries and birthdays could never be drama-free; perceived slights from me, her family, my family, her friends, her coworkers, etc. would be blown way out of proportion; she would shift her interests and goals every few months, throwing herself into something entirely only to regret it later. Now, even after multiple children, she is the same and worse, raging at and demeaning me, and regularly threatening divorce and/or suicide. 

My patience has been worn out.  I am now weighing if and when to pursue a divorce.  She has already had some personal therapy and we have worked with a couples therapist (who confided that he thought she may have a personality disorder), but none of it seems to have resolved any of my wife's issues.
 
Looking ahead at a potential divorce, the biggest issues seem to be spousal support and custody.  
I have a demanding but well paying career with good prospects. Although a divorce would of course be a significant financial setback, I think within five years things would be the same as or better than they are today. I at least would not be spending every spare dime trying to appease my wife.  

In contrast, my wife has flipped back and forth between working and staying at home, and was fired from the last full-time job she had (as well as each of her previous full-time jobs).  I think it will be difficult for her to find a high-paying job without having to go back to school for a professional degree, not to mention keeping the job and balancing the demands of children, etc. She would certainly experience a decline in her living standards, which would be a big shock for her.

I imagine the court would initially favor her in a custody dispute.  She presents well and, because she only works part-time, has a more flexible schedule.  That said, she doesn't like taking care of the kids and seems to think having a full-time job would solve all of her problems.  

I already do probably 40%+ of the childcare right now (weekends plus getting them ready for the day and putting them to bed, most of their laundry--basically, if I'm in the house, I am caring for the kids and she is in her own world).  Her family is aware of her behavior and believes she has a personality disorder. They are supportive of me, as is my family, and I expect they would "take my side" in a custody dispute.  Moreover, I have years of recordings and contemporaneous notes showing her pattern of outbursts.  I am hopeful these factors would help me in a potential custody dispute.  

I am finishing up Bill Eddy's book Splitting and getting my ducks in a row to talk to lawyers.  Is there anything else I should do, weaknesses in my thinking or other advice or words of wisdom?  Am I perhaps being too dismissive of her ability to change?

It is very sad that things have come to this point, and I have been feeling pretty foolish for letting this go on this long. 

[Tangled mangled]

I’m currently going through divorce, with a male bpd although I’m close to final stages ,  there’s no end in sight after almost 2 years of filing.
I’m not in the US so my court system is different.

I’ve heard men on this site describe the nightmare they have experienced.
In between, you are not being dismissive at all, you have been patient enough to explore therapy and counselling , that’s a lot of work put in already.

I’m wasn’t as wise as you have already been but my 2 cents are:

 Be prepared for things to escalate when she finds out that you are planning to leave. She will also be very sensitive to your pulling away from the relationship so be careful not to make any big changes in your behaviour until it’s safe to inform her. Is also possible that you can approach the divorce with the support of your marriage counsellor?

Continue to protect yourself and the children by gathering video and recorded evidence- false claims of DV are quite common.

Self doubt is your enemy and it makes you vulnerable to further manipulation and abuse. After years of this difficult relationship and being falsely accused and called names despite your efforts, it’s not unusual to doubt yourself and making decisions can be difficult.

There are similar threads going on at the moment such as that by a member here , Cravingpeace. Lots of useful information and an example of what can happen once she finds out about your intentions to divorce.

At this stage you must be careful not to react or to give her any reasons to accuse of DV.

50/50 custody is quite common so seek advice from your lawyers and make them aware your wife is a high conflict personality.

I’m fully separated from my husband, what I find is that my income is not much higher than it was when we were together but I’m able to live more comfortably without the need for full time work.

[livednlearned]

It's tough that you're going through this. Reading Splitting is a good start and so is reaching out for support, wherever you can find it.

It may seem odd to suggest this but the skills recommended for bettering a marriage are really helpful in a divorce. You'll use them in different ways but in general they'll help with co-parenting, even if they won't "fix" the problem.

Eddy wrote a book called Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent has BPD/NPD and there are others that also focus on common issues that show up in our divorces, both during and beyond.

As far as your plan, do you anticipate your wife will be high-conflict? Does she recruit negative advocates? Do you think she'll make false allegations?

If so, you may want to identify the most aggressive lawyers and do a consult just to rule them out. They won't be able to work with your wife if there's a conflict of interest, which there will be if you do a consult. It's also generally a good idea to talk to several lawyers and get a sense of what they would do given goals you identify.

From there you'll get a good sense how things work where you live and can outline how to move forward. For me, I ran some numbers and figured out how to increase my hours at work to get health care and meet some savings goals. I documented things and protected nostalgic items and had several plans in place depending on how far sideways things might. go.

If your wife is suicidal, I would also get a safety plan together. Talk to therapists about what's best for your situation.

Based on how you describe your wife, it's possible that even if she were to get a custody agreement in her favor, you would probably end up with the kids more. This happened with my ex. He would fight for more time in court while asking me to take extra days with our son, never insisting on swapping time.

Are your kids in therapy? That might also be something you set up now rather than later. Our families are special needs. Most of our kids need some kind of therapy if they can.

 

[ForeverDad]

I find that one of our best qualities - fairness - can impel us to sabotage ourselves when dealing with an acting-out spouse.  We tend to try to be overly-fair and then we get stomped on.  Ouch!  So it's time for you to do all your planning, actions and reactions without the "I want to be fair to my spouse" feelings.  You will find the family courts don't care how nice or fair you are, sorry you get no extra points.  Of course, don't be nasty, but otherwise just take care of yourself and especially the kids.

[Pretty Foolish]

Thank you for the replies. 

The kids started school, and it turns out she has already pegged a teacher as a pedophile.  While the teacher is a bit too familiar with the students for my taste, nothing has been done that clearly crosses the line. She was fixated on this for weeks and then made a report to the school without telling me, which of course escalated the situation and resulted in a big meeting with the principal.  I knew she had been anxious, but did not know she had made a report.  Of course, it was very embarrassing to learn about this in a meeting with the principal when I am trying to smooth things over.

I had told her to settle down weeks ago but she continued to focus on her perceived threat and acted out on it.  She claims that she did not intend to escalate the matter and that she wasn't trying to hide it from me, but it is hard not to suspect she knew I would have stopped her and so went around me.

We need this school to work out (my wife has already created a bad impression at the best alternative school).  I am considering telling the principal and teacher that my wife has been under a lot of stress and let her anxiety get the better of her, and that they should feel free to communicate directly with me if a similar situation arises.  I don't want to throw her under the bus but her emotions and impulsivity are risking the education and development of our children.  I suppose this may also be something that comes up in a potential custody dispute if things proceed that far. 

Is there a good way to telegraph to third parties that my wife acts out on her own and that issues raised by her should be confirmed with me?   

[ForeverDad]

While I was still in divorce my ex got herself (and hence us) booted from the pediatrician's practice.  After the divorce was final she got herself (and hence us) booted from two daycares, one even filed harassment with the court.  It was no fun getting notices of "withdrawal of services".

While the above instances were based on her conflicts with me still being a parent, I do recall ex had suspicions about anyone and everyone as either abusers or women as competition.  She had been abused in her childhood and her perceptions were skewed toward negatives everywhere.  If your spouse is not in meaningful therapy and applying the insight diligently in her life and perceptions, then she won't stop.  (Sorry, she's not likely to truly listen to you because she can't/won't get past the emotional baggage of the relationship.  That's an aspect of the disorder, BPD is a dysfunction most evident in close relationships.)

Yes, you'll have to separately ask the professionals to contact you in the event of your spouse causing incidents.  Whether they will do so is up to them.

This is a heads-up that you'll have to deal with this issue in family court when the time comes.  Court will assume the litigants are both reasonably normal parents and it will take time for the court to realize that one parent is causing problems and the other parent (you) is proposing solutions.  Despite that resistance, do try to get the best ("least bad") temp order possible from the very start.  (When I divorced nearly two decades ago my court process had default preference for mothers and it took quite a while before that got fixed.)

[ForeverDad]

Looking ahead at a potential divorce, the biggest issues seem to be spousal support and custody.

Spousal support (during divorce) and alimony (after divorce) may be two different things.  In my divorce many years ago I did not pay spousal support but did pay alimony after the divorce.  Typically alimony is never more than half the length of the marriage and usually less.  Our attorneys agreed to settle alimony for 1/6 the marriage length, or 3 years, far less than half.

If in the USA, laws recently changed and be forewarned that some or all of ordered support may not be considered tax deductible expenses.

Around here the most complicated aspect is custody and the parenting schedule.  The most common reason is that - especially at the start of the divorce - the disordered person is simply too entitled and controlling, almost as though the children are viewed as extensions of the spouse.  (If your spouse is not overly obsessed with the kids, then the divorce process may not be sabotaged overmuch.  Maybe.)

In contrast, my wife has flipped back and forth between working and staying at home, and was fired from the last full-time job she had (as well as each of her previous full-time jobs).  I think it will be difficult for her to find a high-paying job without having to go back to school for a professional degree, not to mention keeping the job and balancing the demands of children, etc. She would certainly experience a decline in her living standards, which would be a big shock for her.

I imagine the court would initially favor her in a custody dispute.  She presents well and, because she only works part-time, has a more flexible schedule.  That said, she doesn't like taking care of the kids and seems to think having a full-time job would solve all of her problems.

Do try to get the "least bad" initial temp order, our cases can take much longer than most divorces... you don't want to be locked into a lousy temp order for all that time.

Are you using a daycare or the  before and after services?  If you have that in place then your stbEx (soon-to-be-ex) will not be credibly able to claim "I have to care for the kids" as an excuse not to do full time work.

I am finishing up Bill Eddy's book Splitting and getting my ducks in a row to talk to lawyers.  Is there anything else I should do, weaknesses in my thinking or other advice or words of wisdom?  Am I perhaps being too dismissive of her ability to change?

Beware that one of our admirable qualities - a sense of fairness or niceness - can easily sabotage you.  As long as you're not nasty or nefarious, don't try to be fair or nice in the custody or parenting time negotiations.  Court won't care one bit how nice or fair or generous you try to be.  And your ex will likely still demand even more, so curb your natural "Nice Guy" traits that won't be appreciated.

Yes, it's possible the ongoing therapy may improve your spouse.  But it would be an uphill climb and no one can predict whether or how much she might improve.  What has been commented before is that if she does recover mental stability then at a later date you can decide whether to remarry or not.

Only time will tell whether he is sincere and committed to making last improvements.  You get to decide how much more time, if any, you allow for him to prove himself.  After all, you've had many years with him and evidently during all your interactions over all those years there hasn't much if any long term positive response, right?

However, be fully aware that there is a vast difference between words and promises versus lasting actions and real progress toward improvement and recovery.  Promises are easy to make, real lasting improvements are so very difficult.

Do not feel pressured overmuch about your feelings, obligations and second-guessing yourself.

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  She wrote that if persons do work to attain some recovery from BPD then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive or be restarted, one or both had changed that much.

[PeteWitsend]

...

I am finishing up Bill Eddy's book Splitting and getting my ducks in a row to talk to lawyers.  Is there anything else I should do, weaknesses in my thinking or other advice or words of wisdom?  Am I perhaps being too dismissive of her ability to change?

It is very sad that things have come to this point, and I have been feeling pretty foolish for letting this go on this long. 

One of the things they'll tell you to do are "find an attorney experienced in BPD issues/high conflict divorce."

Easier said than done... maybe there is someone who has and through word of mouth you can get a verify their experience here and get a referral, but also: 1) every family law attorney will tell you they have experience with this "issue"; and 2) even if they have experience, whether they took the right lessons from that experience and will be able to help you navigate this path differently than in a normal divorce is doubtful.

Family law practice is maybe not the "bottom of the barrel" of the legal profession, but it's pretty far from the top.  Most of the people going into it aren't the best. 

I think the best you can do is get a basically competent attorney here who won't waste your time and money, and STAY ON THEM and stay involved in the process.  You may have to be your own advocate at times, if/when others are pushing to settle issues on terms that would be fine if your ex did not have a personality disorder, but could go on to provide endless conflict if they do. 

If your kids are a little older (in my state its age 12) the court can consider their testimony in terms of who they want to live with.  So that's something to consider. 

Also note that all states basically have some default rules and assumptions of child custody and property division, and absent a showing of abuse or neglect, or other criminal issues, courts will try to force your situation into that, and expect that one parent will end up with primary custody, and you'll both work things out.  Courts do not care about your kids in any sort of deeper way; if one parent can basically clothe, feed, and get them to school without physically abusing them... that's good enough.  It doesn't matter if that parent is also borderline, constantly bad mouthing you and stirring the proverbial sh__ all the time. 

So this is why I say you have to be your own advocate, even if your own attorney is pushing you to settle something.

Note that my kids therapist warned me that after a divorce, things typically stay stable-ish for about 2 years, and then some major change happens that renders negotiated settlements and custody unworkable, and you either have to take it, or go back to court. 

In my case, sure enough, my ex moved to the literal edge of the county, in a very rural area, to put as much distance between us as possible, and this made it extremely difficult to pick my daughter up after school, get her to school, and participate in events and such on the weekends with her (about a 30 mile drive each way). 

In our state, the default geographic restriction is by county, even though counties can be very large and diverse. 

We had been living in a more suburban area with great schools; BPDxw moved to a very rural part of the county with lousy schools, and there wasn't anything I could do because it was within the bounds of the decree!

What I wish I would have done is fight for more restrictive boundaries, and - this is key - stress that stability at home and school is important for the kids, and keeping both parents involved is as well, and so to this end, our boundaries had to be more narrowly defined.  And ALWAYS say you're doing something for the kids.  It has to be framed that way.  Courts will not care at all if you say "this gives me shorter drives and more time with the kids"...

I have more advice, I'll share later.  I haven't been through the legal wringer as much as ForeverDad, but have had plenty of issues post-divorce that in hindsight, I wish I had addressed up front, although it's impossible to fix everything in a divorce decree, especially when dealing with a pwBPD who looks for ways to create conflict.

[Pretty Foolish]

The saga continues...

I've been conflicted about the path ahead.  My wife did start seeing a therapist more regularly--maybe three times a month--but it hasn't shown much lasting effect.  She just doesn't seem to recognize her own contributions to her issues.  Maybe there is a chance it "takes" with more frequent and more regular sessions.  Her family is pushing medication, but from everything I've read it seems like that is as much a shot in the dark as therapy. 

As you'd expect, the holidays are a stressful time.  While Thanksgiving was fine, she blew up at several family members afterwards over a perceived slight.  She was very depressed and angry about all of that yesterday, so much so that she delayed making dinner for an hour and a half and then slapped our four year old for bringing a book to the table.  It was a light slap but totally uncalled-for and horrifying to witness.  I stepped in and spent about an hour calming her down, but that wasn't enough.  When I said I had to do other things she freaked out, following me into another room with spoons and drumming them on furniture to the beat of "Tequila".  After her attempts to engage me failed, she left me alone with threats of divorce and allusions to potential infidelity.  After a few minutes, she returned, turned around, pulled down her leggings and "mooned" me, telling me that I can't control her.  The whole thing was so absurd that I couldn't help but laugh, which at least seemed to cut through moment. 

I hate the thought of breaking apart the family, but I can see that our children are stressed out and confused.  There has been almost no progress on my wife's part, and I don't have much hope that there will be progress. Fortunately, I have the support of her (and my) family and I expect to have enough saved up by the end of the year to relieve some of the financial stress of a separation.  Still, it is such a hard decision.

[EyesUp]

So many echoes of my own experience.

re: infidelity and divorce threats...  in my case, accusations were confessions, and the divorce threats proved to be a sign of splitting when she was getting attention elsewhere.

If your wife is anything like my ex, the mooning - obviously a provocation - could get twisted/distorted.  My ex would ignore all other context and conclude that she showed me her goods and I didn't use the opportunity to initiate sex - so obviously I don't care / I'm not interested / and therefore she's entitled to seek attention elsewhere.

Your situation might be very different, but I would not be surprised if your wife arrives at a similar conclusion when/if you're not easily provoked in a particular way:  he doesn't care / he's not interested - which she then uses to justify... anything and everything.

There's already a lot of good advice in this thread re: how to approach the situation, and what to read.

I'll add this:  If I could do the whole thing over again, I wish I could have been more decisive instead of reactive.  Things had to get really bad before I accepted that divorce was necessary.

I would have interviewed attorneys earlier to identify the best one - someone who truly understands high conflict cases - rather than waiting until things were in crisis and making a choice under pressure.

I would have waited until my ex was working fulltime, which would have shifted the child support calc a bit more evenly.  Like your wife, my ex cycled through several jobs and was working pt at the time of the D.  She went back to work ft after the D, and we've yet to recalc CS largely because it'll be a huge conflict when it happens (and possibly because I'm guilty of excessive fairness as noted above).

Start keeping a concise journal of all activity with the kids, every doctor appointment, school meeting or even, everything.  A full year of activity that shows you're equally engaged in providing care will go a long way.  Focus on your kids and take every possible moment to be with them.  Document it.  Establishing status quo - and then maintaining it - will go far when creating a parenting plan.

Don't worry about your wife's degree or education - if you get divorced, it's up to her to chart a path.  My ex has a master's degree, but was working pt in a bookshop at the time of the D.  Nothing wrong with working in a bookshop, but she was objectively under employed. CS is typically calc'ed on current income - not past income or earning potential.  So I pay more.  And continue to pay more.

Lots more practical advice, but this drifts into D strategy...   Is that helpful?  Let us know how we can best support you.

Hang in there - many of us know exactly where you're coming from re: holiday drama...  the next few weeks could get spicy. 

[ForeverDad]

I'll add this:  If I could do the whole thing over again, I wish I could have been more decisive instead of reactive.  Things had to get really bad before I accepted that divorce was necessary.

I would have... interviewed attorneys earlier * to identify the best one - someone who truly understands high conflict cases - rather than waiting until things were in crisis and making a choice under pressure.

I would have...

I can echo this.  I knew my marriage was becoming more and more troubled yet hoped in vain that after each incident that this time it might be the last.  So, so, very sadly, all too soon there was another, then another.  I could not imagine that my marriage could fail, yet I watched my slow motion train wreck looming ever closer until I had no choice but to separate.  And when my spouse still refused to change course, I also filed  for divorce.

* What should you share with your spouse?  If you're trying to repair the relationship and restore trust, then you do share information.  However, if you have concluded that the marriage/relationship is failing or has failed then there is a paradigm shift in your approach.  You shift from restoration to damage control and "least bad" long term outcome.  If you share more than needed financial and parenting information, then you risk being sabotaged.

To expand on that... You have a right to privacy and confidentiality.  Many here, myself included, experienced repeated late night "we will fix this tonight" interrogations.  I repeat, you have a right to privacy and confidentiality.  About what?  At a minimum, your decision to inform yourself about your legal standing in any unwinding of your marriage, to interview family law attorneys, etc.

This is where we have a conflict... within ourselves.  We here are proud of our sense of fairness.  (To some extent that's how and why we stayed so long in dysfunctional situations.)  What could be more fair than sharing our information with our (more oppositional) spouses?  The problem?  Wouldn't that open us up obstruction and sabotage by a spouse who is unconcerned about reciprocating similarly with fairness.

[Pretty Foolish]

Thank you for the comments and commiseration. 

Christmas was fine (surprisingly), but my wife blew up on me after visiting with my family.  I told her she was being ungracious, and she settled down and was very apologetic the next day, even suggesting extending our trip for another day (I didn't take her up on that). 

However, on the trip home, something put her into a black mood, and when I wouldn't play 20 questions with her over a desired home renovation, she blew up at me--yelling and cursing at me in front of the children, threatening to call the police and tell them I was abusing her and had stolen the car, etc. My only response was that she was being inappropriate and I couldn't participate in a conversation with her in this state.

The tirade continued after we got home. It culminated in her sending a video message to my best friend for 20+ years announcing our divorce and calling me a terrible husband.  When that didn't get a rise from me, she tried to physically attack me. I was in bed and she tried to grab my genitals through the blankets.  I was able to turn away from her and told her to stop and that she was acting in a disturbing way.  She called me a coward.  That seemed to exhaust her and we went to bed.  She was semi-apologetic in the morning, but couldn't seem to take responsibility for her actions.

I spoke to an attorney before the holidays.  She recommended trying to do an "intervention" first to see if medication could even out the extreme behavior.  At this point, I think such an effort, though unlikely to be successful, is necessary.
 Has anyone had any experience with this?  How was the demand framed so that it was not an ultimatum? Was it successful?

[EyesUp]

It sounds like you found a somewhat rare attorney - the suggestion to try something else before proceeding with divorce is uncommon.

In regard to the intervention idea...  The upside is that this may give you conviction to proceed one way or the other. 

In my experience, couples therapy and other attempts to bring a neutral third party into the discussion were not successful.  My uBPDxw dragged her feet, and when we finally started she had an array of defenses, including the best one:  A good offense...  entirely new accusations came out in therapy that I hadn't heard before. And when the counselor didn't immediately take her side, the counselor was painted black.

In order for an intervention to succeed in this situation, your wife has to initiate it.  It must be her idea.  Otherwise, she'll resist it - or play along for a while and then resent it later...

Since your wife is already attempting to weaponize your relationship with a friend (triangulation), it's clear that she's operating well outside of "normal" boundaries.  Can you think of anyway to call her attention to this in a non-confrontational way in which she might take responsibility or show signs of self-awareness?

Hang in there. 

[Pretty Foolish]

She and I have been seeing the same therapist to address these issues but it hasn't helped.  She is inconsistent about keeping appointments and even when she does attend, she either resents it or focuses on any sliver of affirmation from the therapist, while avoiding any reflection on her own conduct.  The therapist is pretty well aware of her but has been moving very slowly.

She will never initiate an intervention that affects her.  She believes she is being persecuted without reason by me, by my family, by her family, by her friends, by her employers--by everyone.  Her family has been pushing a serious intervention potentially involving in-patient treatment. So far I've told them not to do that, believing that it is more likely to alienate her than achieve anything.

It was probably too confrontational, but I did tell her yesterday that I loved her but that I couldn't keep living like this, and that she needed to get some help to learn to control herself.  That afternoon she texted an apology to my friend and emailed the therapist a 200+ word email framing me as the problem (she claims that I am a "covert narcissist" and physically abusive--talk about projection). 

So I expect an intervention won't work.  Still, it's worth a shot before moving onto separation and/or divorce. I would like to maximize the chance of it working.

[re_search1901]

Please tread carefully here. The threat of involving the police ups the ante significantly. I think it is common here that once that threat is made, it happens somewhere down the line. You need to protect yourself. I was accused of domestic violence and stalking and arrested and it has cost me no less than $20k so far. Start recording the tantrums, outbursts and physical altercations.

[ForeverDad]

Please tread carefully here. The threat of involving the police ups the ante significantly. I think it is common here that once that threat is made, it happens somewhere down the line. You need to protect yourself... Start recording the tantrums, outbursts and physical altercations.

I agree.  I learned a truism long ago here... If it has been threatened or even contemplated, it will happen, given enough time.

Let's do a thought experiment.  Imagine that during one of these abuse incidents - call it what it is - you call the emergency services and the police respond.  You tell what happened.  By then your ex, knowing they were coming, has calmed herself down and she claims she didn't do it and counter claims that instead you were the abuser.  (It happened to me, my then-spouse tried to make me look worse than her.)

In such a situation, as my lawyer enlightened me about his past LEO years, officialdom always defaults to viewing the women as victims, not men.  (No surprise, in the USA there is a law named "Violence Against Women Act".  Sorry, there is no such thing as a "Violence Against Men Act".)

My story nearly 20 years ago, just before I registered here... So when I called and two officers arrived at my home, one brought the canine dogs, we were briefly interviewed separately and my then-spouse surely claimed I was the problem person because one officer told me to hand my quietly sobbing preschooler over to his mother and "step away".

My child was in my arms and shrieked and clung tighter to me when I tried to comply.  What kid won't go to his mother?  The officer pondered for a moment and said, "Work it out" and they left.  (My lawyer was surprised I wasn't carted off since the standard policy is to separate the parties after a dispute incident.)

I should add that she got a DV booklet but I didn't.  Yep. I had been the default perp and she the default victim.  What turned the tables was that I had a digital recorder.  Actually, I had three since the batteries were always dying and the devices getting full.  That was all I had then, no cell phones.

I couldn't play the incident for them since the speaker didn't work.  In the days after the incident I finally managed to download it and played it for another officer.  Finally they knew the truth of what really happened.

But by then the incident was days in the past.  While she was charged with Threat of DV, later dismissed since she didn't have a weapon in her hands, the "intervention" to start a hospital observation/assessment hold never happened.

In later years I bought an advanced audio recorder that was so much better, an Olympus model that could record for hundreds of hours.  By then I had separated and divorced but that's another story.

My point is that you need witnesses to the actual events, or some sort of recordings for your own protection.  In other words, independent documentation, not hearsay such as "he said" vs "she said".  Probably do so on the down low, don't wave it around in case that would trigger even more incidents.  Hopefully you won't need recordings but they can rescue you out of serious legal trouble.  In my case I made backups (and kept them where my spouse had no physical or electronic access) so I had proof I wasn't the one acting aggressively.

[PeteWitsend]

...
I spoke to an attorney before the holidays.  She recommended trying to do an "intervention" first to see if medication could even out the extreme behavior.  At this point, I think such an effort, though unlikely to be successful, is necessary.
 Has anyone had any experience with this?  How was the demand framed so that it was not an ultimatum? Was it successful?

I'm actually a little concerned with this; your attorney clearly doesn't understand the nature of BPD or personality orders in general if she thinks this can be treated like that. 

She probably doesn't understand what you've actually gone through, including the actual violent, or borderline violent conduct from your wife.  Or that you've gone through counseling with your wife & it's just an exercise in futility.  I might actually put it that way to her, i.e. "if the situation was reversed: I was screaming at my wife & aggressively jumping on her and grabbing her crotch when she refused to respond, would you tell her to try an intervention first, or would you be advising her to get a protective order and get out?"  Her response will tell you whether she "gets it" or you should keep looking for an attorney.

[PeteWitsend]

also, re: the threats to call the police... start recording her.  Either get a voice recorder (they're around $50 at best buy), or use your phone. 

Regarding the use of an iphone to record someone, practice with it first.  Make sure the ringer is off, and make sure the volume is turned all the way down, or it will give off tell-tale beeps that it's recording.  Maybe this isn't so bad... sometimes, they freak out and calm way down and leave you alone when they know they're being recorded.  Their paranoia takes over and they worry what else you've caught them doing.  Or the opposite could happen... it causes them to escalate further.  But either way, at least you're getting evidence of them doing it.

Maybe even come up with a solution to email the recordings to yourself or your attorney to preserve them if your BPDw deletes them or demands you do. 

[PeteWitsend]

if you have an android phone, same advice, although I'm not as familiar with those & their functionality.

[Pretty Foolish]

Fortunately I have numerous audio recordings going back several years, including a recording of her recent threat to call the police and her attack on me.  They are backed up and ready.  I was going through them again this morning and found one from an old Christmas, where, in a fit of rage, she screamed that she wanted to "shoot [my] mother in the head". 

I also saw that on the night of the New Years Eve fight, she had been texting a friend of hers that she was in danger and that if she ever was believed to have committed suicide, that the friend should suspect I had actually done it.  Reading that was a real "WTF moment" for me--I knew she was off but not that sick/delusional.  Looking back, I can't believe I've let all of this go on for so long.

She has already scheduled a joint therapy session with a counselor we/she has been seeing. I plan to raise these issues in the session.  If she does explode, which seems likely, at least there will be a witness present and the kids will be safe elsewhere.

[ForeverDad]

It is good you've been proactive but what surprised me in family court was that the officials are not concerned with incidents over 6 months before the legal case was filed.  I was testifying about my stbEx's behavior and the magistrate stopped me when I worked my way backward in time past 6 months.

To illustrate, if you called emergency services and said, "My garage was on fire last year" (or "My spouse was raging and threatening to {whatever} last year") the response would probably be, "This isn't an emergency.  Call back when you have a recent or ongoing emergency."

Technically, I suspect older incidents ought to be valid for documenting a pattern of poor behavior but I never experienced my court being concerned about poor patterns.  It was more concerned with what IS, not what has been,

So be sure to focus on the more recent incidents.  Also, who the target of the abuse/negativity is can determine how actionable it will be viewed.  If your spouse makes you the target, the authorities will lean toward assuming you can take care of yourself.  But incidents almost surely may be more actionable if the children as minors are targeted (or exposed to it, depending on local policies).