Does this describe a "non"?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I had someone point out something interesting to me today.   Look at this profile (men esp).  Does this profile describe you, more or less?  Is  this a common "non"?

A giver... .it feels good to give to others

A caretaker... .if a person has a problem you will tend to help

Value approval from others... .you say and do things to get the approval of others... .

Avoid conflict... .

You feel you need to hide your perceived flaws, mistakes... .

Seek to do the "right" thing... .

Repress your feelings... .

Try to be different from you father... .

More comfortable with women then men... .

Difficulty making your own needs a priority... .

Your partner is your emotional center... .

[Skippy]

I had someone point out something interesting to me today.   Look at this profile (men esp).  Does this profile describe you, more or less?  Is  this a common "non"?

A giver... .it feels good to give to others

A caretaker... .if a person has a problem you will tend to help

Value approval from others... .you say and do things to get the approval of others... .

Avoid conflict... .

You feel you need to hide your perceived flaws, mistakes... .

Seek to do the "right" thing... .

Repress your feelings... .

Try to be different from you father... .

More comfortable with women then men... .

Difficulty making your own needs a priority... .

Your partner is your emotional center... .

[brucey]

Some of those apply to me, and some don't.  I have a feeling that BPDs will victimize anyone they can; anyone who gives them supply.  I don't think the qualities of a non are relevant, except that a non is someone who pays attention to, adores, listens intently to, puts up with, falls in love with, gets conned and deceived by, believes in, tolerates, tries to understand, and mostly helps create drama with a borderline.  Actually, nearly anyone will do.  A clinical psychologist who treats personality disorders told me that they will attach to a corpse if it gives them a feeling of control, attention, drama, etc.  It simply doesn't matter who it is, he said.

[Monty]

Skip,

At times in my, life I have been all of those things and at others, none. For me, those characteristics of vulnerability are not always present but, instead, surface based on circumstance. For example, when I met my XBPDGF, I was 40 years old and three years out of a 17-year marriage. I was lonely, felt like a failure for the first time in my life, and believed I was unlovable. Consequently, when an extraordinarily beautiful 25 year-old girl walks into my life and tells me, on the third date, that she loves me more than she ever though she could love anyone, I did cartwheels and turned into the stereotypical non. She was able to manipulate my pathetic self anyway she chose and I gladly let her. At no time prior to this was I ever vulnerable to someone like her. In fact, she was just the type of woman I would typically rebuff. But under the circumstances of a midlife divorce, I was easy prey.

I believe Brucey and his psychologist friend are right in that those with BPD will attach to anyone (just as long as they are vulnerable). And, BPDs are expert at spotting and exploiting vulnerability.

So, I believe that the characteristics you list above describe someone who is vulnerable, but that the definition of a “non” is much broader and, perhaps, simpler. A non, to me, is someone who is suseptable to the manipulations of someone with BPD, and that suseptability can be based on the characteristics above or a wide array of other qualities and circumstance.

Monty

[Skippy]

You make some interesting points, Monty. 

I was also vulnerable at the time I met my BPD.  Prior to that, she had a relationship with someone 20 years her senior... .so it sounds like the pattern you describe.  To anyone reading this... .is "vulnerability" a common starting point?

The list I posted above comes from a book for codependents... .its called "No More Mr. Nice Guy".   

At first, I rejected the thought that I might be codependent with respect to relationships.  The list doesn't describe me... .but I do have some of the items (as Bruce say he does too). Howvere,  after thinking about it more carefully, I see some trends throughout my life.  Is this normal?  Do I have issues?  I don't want to miss such an important realization.

Your suggest that the vulnerability is transient.  I would love to believe that. 



I guess my question is, who of us are victims (as Bruce suggests) who are enablers (as the auther suggests), and who were just acutely vulnerable (as you suggest)... .

[Monty]

Thanks for helping me clarify some things Skip. Heres where Im at as a result of this tread:

I believe that we all have behaviors or characteristics that are constant and part of who we are. Some of these can make us vulnerable. For instance, Im trusting, giving, and never mind helping someone in need. But, there have almost always been limitations to how much I will trust, give, or help. So yes, these characteristics make me vulnerable, but only to a certain and safe degree. And, I personally would rather be a little vulnerable than distrustful, stingy, and unwilling to help others.

In my relentless introspection since my BPD break-up, Ive come to the conclusion (for now anyway) that it wasnt my possession of these characteristics that made me susceptible, but my failure to implement limitations on them. After my divorce, I so desperately, needed to prove to myself that I was lovable and capable of sustaining a successful and loving relationship that I had no boundaries or limitations to what I would do to achieve that (how pitiful). Unfortunately, my XBPDGF was able to hone in on my missing boundaries almost immediately, and, in typical BPD fashion, she fully exploited them.

As a result of this entire BPD nightmare, I believe that I am back to being my same vulnerable self with safe and healthy limitations. I am at peace with my divorce, my BPD relationship, and, most importantly, with myself. Consequently, I believe Im no longer on the BPD radar screen (I say with my rabbits foot in pocket and all fingers crossed).?  

Regarding the trends in your life that you are concerned about, it seems that we all have those. Rather than trying to ride ourselves of them, our time might be better spent tempering them with the resolve to maintain healthy and safe limitations on them.

Oh well, thats all the thinking and writing I can do for today. Hope this sparks some thoughts that lead to alleviating some of the pain of your situation.

Monty

[LAnn]

Hi Skip,

I'm replying as a woman to your post.   And it is interesting that yes,  :

I try to be different from my mother!

I am more comfortable with men than with women!

These fit in appropriate reverse to the list you provided.

I have ignored my intuitions, believing my love would make a difference.

Oh, how I have learned that my gut instincts should be honored.

Thank you for this thread.

[hitwithbrick]

Yes, as another female "non", I agree as well.

It seems BPDs have this radar; like drooling, blood-sucking leeches, they seem to have the

uncanny ability to choose a victim with just the right criterion to feed upon.

Well, maybe we all have a bit of a problem too... .I for one, am almost questioning my sanity on a daily basis- LOVE... .ain't it grand; like a falling toaster to the head... .

2 years and still wondering... .darn leeches.

Okay, I was no help at all, but Skip, we all seem to have similar patterns, so yeah, maybe this is a possible clue as to why we end up with people who hurt.

[Rufio24]

I had someone point out something interesting to me today.?  ? Look at this profile (men esp).?  Does this profile describe you, more or less?  Is?  this a common "non"?

A giver... .it feels good to give to others

That's definitely me

A caretaker... .if a person has a problem you will tend to help

Yup, me again

Value approval from others... .you say and do things to get the approval of others... .

No, I say and do as I please

Avoid conflict... .

I think I'm 50/50 on this.  When its something definite I'll speak up, otherwise I'll just turn the other cheek.

You feel you need to hide your perceived flaws, mistakes... .

Nope.

Seek to do the "right" thing... .

Yes, most of the time.

Repress your feelings.

No, I'm an emotional person, I'm always expressing some type of feeling

Try to be different from you father... .

Definitely! As I've grown older I've learned to accept my father for the way he is, its all he knew, its the way he was raised.  I never felt close with him and actually resented him for a long time.  Now I realize that he wants only the best for me and he loves me so much in his own way.  But despite that I plan on being completely different from my father when I have a family.

More comfortable with women then men... .

I'm comfortable around both.

Difficulty making your own needs a priority... .

In my BPD relationship, I almost always put her needs before mine, funny thing is I'm not generally like that.  I think my empathy for her situation made me like that.

Your partner is your emotional center... .

yup, as she went so did I.

Nice post Skip, its always interesting to learn more about yourself through things like this.  I will say this, I completely changed my attitude and way of life for my exgf.  I was a wild, party animal who never let a girl too close to my heart because I didn't want to get hurt.  Little  did I know at the time, that I was in for the biggest amount of bullshyt one could ever ask for.


Sunny

[TaloninTx]

I had someone point out something interesting to me today.?  ? Look at this profile (men esp).?  Does this profile describe you, more or less?  Is?  this a common "non"?

A giver... .it feels good to give to others

A caretaker... .if a person has a problem you will tend to help

Value approval from others... .you say and do things to get the approval of others... .

Avoid conflict... .

You feel you need to hide your perceived flaws, mistakes... .

Seek to do the "right" thing... .

Repress your feelings... .

Try to be different from you father... .

More comfortable with women then men... .

Difficulty making your own needs a priority... .

Your partner is your emotional center... .

I don't mean to make fun of this but this almost totally describes Luke Skywalker.

Some of these things are good traits and some of these are bad but I don't think they necessarily describe a "non" verbatim. I think there are many types of nons out there including people suffering from BPD who are in relationships with abusers. No one on these boards is going to admit to being an abuser (I'll be impressed if you do though.) Remember, BPDs seek out abusers much like they seek out caregivers.

I've bolded out the ones I think are blatantly unhealthy but there are some that can go either way. Anything done to extreme is going to be unhealthy when it becomes detrimental to yourself.

[Skippy]

I don't mean to make fun of this but this almost totally describes Luke Skywalker.

Some of these things are good traits and some of these are bad but I don't think they necessarily describe a "non" verbatim.

The list is not mine, so you are wecomed to make fun.  The list comes from a book written by Glover.  He describes these symptoms as those of "Nice Guy Syndrome".

I'm not sure I'm buying into his theories, or if it pertains to me, but I am seeking answers to my contribution in all that has happened... .so i continue to explore  If I'm an abuser or have any problem, I hope to discover it and deal with it ... .

Glover feels these NG symtoms have no so nice motivations... .such as a "giver" often gives only to receive.  He speaks of covert contracts;  things done to generate a return. A covert contract is where you do something without stating to the other person what you expect in return, yet you expect something specific; like cleaning the kitchen so that the wife would be in a good mood and then maybe sex on Saturday.

Avoiding conflict  is a self serving action/manipulation as part of an ongoing need to solicit constant approval. Etc.

NG rarely draws any cricism (or introspect) and is often admired person... .even admiring himself.

TaloninTx (are you from Texas)... .we all seem to blame the BPD for being dysfunctional... .and while that is comfortable... .I'm not sure it is reality... .but right now I don't know what my reality is.

... .and aren't we always the last to know our own psycologocal weaknesses?  (unless, of course, we are Luke Skywalker).

Thanks for your post and your thoughts.