I need to get her filth out of my house, mind, and past.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Last night was really a shocker.  I realized something really awful.  This is pretty emotional reaction.

I'm 10 months out and making a new life.  But as many here, there lingers the emotional scar of a BP relationship.  I work hard on that scar - pushing - making progress - step by step.  I have thought I was at the end of it all at several junctions  (total understanding and emotional peace) - but then there is a little something else.

Reading others posts this week, I came to a really sad realization about my own situation.  One I had not factored in before.

The x (in my case) loved me for sure - especially in the beginning (2 years).  I've always looked at the erosion of the relationship as standard BP madness: "taking me for granted", "conflicted heart", struggling with the intimacy... . we struggled, she acted out... . I stayed constant for boys... .etc.

But I never realized that in the last 12-18 months the realtionship crossed over into something else - A period of time where she kept me around for what I could provide... I was just being "used"... .this level of ugliness never ever crossed my mind - even this week, I believed in her more than to do that - but in hindsight - I can see it clarly.  And its indisputable.

And it really angers me.  Somehow I could accept her BP antics as immaturity and searching for an unrealistic dream.  Internal struggle - misguided, impossible, over reacting, painful, just trying to survive... all of it.  

But she actually took it one step further.  She realized the relationship was dead and said - well, lets see what I can get out of it.  This period was not characterized by the drama and internal strife.  She was cool.

First time I've been angry.  First time, I really see her as trash.  

I'm not sure how this little "reality" passed me by for so long.  I saw her use someone else - basically having a "low level" relationship for the purpose of getting specific material goods (car repairs).  The guy was pretty sorry himself - and I never saw myself in such a role.  And she let her husband work 2 jobs to put her through school (he didn't want her to work and compromise her staudies)- all the while she was planning to leave him after graduation.

As far as I've come in my recovery, I realized this week that I'm still not functioning at "total reality".  Its is so darn elusive!   AHHHH!

I can see it in others, so I've been very conscientious about working it, and I've been driving in face of it for months... .I keep thinking I am there, and then this week, I realize I am still not totally there.

No wonder it is so hard to operate in OZ - reality go far far away - you forget what it ever looked like.

So how do I feel?

I had placed the touching and intimate momento's of our relationship in a box many months ago, sealed it up, and placed in the storage area of the garage. I always looked at it as a memorial to a really sad story... sad for her and for me... .an unfortuante love lost.  A relationship that failed her and that failed me.

At this moment, that box sits in my front yard, partially crushed from where I stomped on it, waiting for the trash collection.

What a piece of sht, dirtball, human being.  What kind of animal does this to a former love, a mentor to her children, a loyal friend.  This part was not about her internal conflict... .this is about no character - scum.

I have always talked about her beauty (the one you love is beautiful - even in failure) - I don't see it anymore... .and I never will again.

I'm signing off now to go out there and kick that box some more... . I need to get her filth out of my house, mind, past.

Skippy

PS. Bruce - it was your thread.  I was think that if my x did anything like yours - I would hate her.  Then I realized - she did!

[Skippy]

Last night was really a shocker.  I realized something really awful.  This is pretty emotional reaction.

I'm 10 months out and making a new life.  But as many here, there lingers the emotional scar of a BP relationship.  I work hard on that scar - pushing - making progress - step by step.  I have thought I was at the end of it all at several junctions  (total understanding and emotional peace) - but then there is a little something else.

Reading others posts this week, I came to a really sad realization about my own situation.  One I had not factored in before.

The x (in my case) loved me for sure - especially in the beginning (2 years).  I've always looked at the erosion of the relationship as standard BP madness: "taking me for granted", "conflicted heart", struggling with the intimacy... . we struggled, she acted out... . I stayed constant for boys... .etc.

But I never realized that in the last 12-18 months the realtionship crossed over into something else - A period of time where she kept me around for what I could provide... I was just being "used"... .this level of ugliness never ever crossed my mind - even this week, I believed in her more than to do that - but in hindsight - I can see it clarly.  And its indisputable.

And it really angers me.  Somehow I could accept her BP antics as immaturity and searching for an unrealistic dream.  Internal struggle - misguided, impossible, over reacting, painful, just trying to survive... all of it.  

But she actually took it one step further.  She realized the relationship was dead and said - well, lets see what I can get out of it.  This period was not characterized by the drama and internal strife.  She was cool.

First time I've been angry.  First time, I really see her as trash.  

I'm not sure how this little "reality" passed me by for so long.  I saw her use someone else - basically having a "low level" relationship for the purpose of getting specific material goods (car repairs).  The guy was pretty sorry himself - and I never saw myself in such a role.  And she let her husband work 2 jobs to put her through school (he didn't want her to work and compromise her staudies)- all the while she was planning to leave him after graduation.

As far as I've come in my recovery, I realized this week that I'm still not functioning at "total reality".  Its is so darn elusive!   AHHHH!

I can see it in others, so I've been very conscientious about working it, and I've been driving in face of it for months... .I keep thinking I am there, and then this week, I realize I am still not totally there.

No wonder it is so hard to operate in OZ - reality go far far away - you forget what it ever looked like.

So how do I feel?

I had placed the touching and intimate momento's of our relationship in a box many months ago, sealed it up, and placed in the storage area of the garage. I always looked at it as a memorial to a really sad story... sad for her and for me... .an unfortuante love lost.  A relationship that failed her and that failed me.

At this moment, that box sits in my front yard, partially crushed from where I stomped on it, waiting for the trash collection.

What a piece of sht, dirtball, human being.  What kind of animal does this to a former love, a mentor to her children, a loyal friend.  This part was not about her internal conflict... .this is about no character - scum.

I have always talked about her beauty (the one you love is beautiful - even in failure) - I don't see it anymore... .and I never will again.

I'm signing off now to go out there and kick that box some more... . I need to get her filth out of my house, mind, past.

Skippy

PS. Bruce - it was your thread.  I was think that if my x did anything like yours - I would hate her.  Then I realized - she did!

[macman]

Hang in there.  The healing will take time and each little bit you realize gets you closer to the truth.

[lennic]

What a piece of sht, dirtball, human being.  What kind of animal does this to a former love, a mentor to her children, a loyal friend.  This part was not about her internal conflict... .this is about no character - scum.

The list of adjectives is endless Skip for describing aspects of the behaviors we tolerated. But no matter the circumstance, when you strip away the hurt so poorly described by words, all that remains is profound mental illness.

Seeing anything for what it really is can be jaw dropping especially the extremes of humanity. There was an article in our newspaper here in Charleston the other day about this 20 something man caught in the act of raping an 82 year old wonderfull neighborhood Lady he had helped with taking her groceries home. He had been raping her for 10 hours straight. The incomprehensible aspects of this event spread through all my poors for the last two days.

Seeing the darkest capacites of man are the most troubling realites I face. And sometimes, for many reasons, I turn away. But sooner or later I peek... .and it remains.

The savior to all this are the wonderful people like you and many others here, in churches, schools, fire and police stations, armed forces,  and hospitols who somehow face those troubling realites, grab someones hand,,and move on.

It's OK Skip, it's our hearts that distinguish us, and yours beats strongly.

Lenny

[Corrine]

Hi Skip,

I don't post much anymore but saw your thread and felt inclined to reply.

But I never realized that in the last 12-18 months the realtionship crossed over into something else - A period of time where she kept me around for what I could provide... I was just being "used"... .this level of ugliness never ever crossed my mind - even this week, I believed in her more than to do that - but in hindsight - I can see it clarly.

I can certainly relate this this awful realization.   Long story short, after a year of NC with my exbpbf, there was a short-lived period of contact between us, including meeting again.  I thought he honestly wanted to take another stab at the relationship but it became apparent, based on little hints he gave out, that he wasn't there for that.  He knew that things were over.  He was there to see what he could get from me especially since he had been unemployed for a year and was now living with relatives.   The renewed contact was very brief, and I ended things due to his bp antics starting up all over again, but it took me some time to realize the truth and for it to sink in.  I let go a lot more momentos after that as well. 

Hang in there, it does get better.  ((Skip))

[brucey]

Skip, I'm sorry for you, and happy for you.  Sorry that you had to realize what I did, what I am crying about right now as I write this, the realization that the person you loved so very much, that you cared for and treated like an angel, that that person was using you, conning you, deceiving you, and then would discard you without one iota of care for your feelings.  Wow.  But, Skip, I am also happy for you that you can see the truth about her deception, her manipulation, her mental illness, and you can disengage, stop thinking of her as someone desirable and honorable, but as scum (I say "trailer trash" for my ex because she grew up in a trailer, her first boyfriend lived with her in a trailer, and she absolutely HATED that term -- so I used it for her in my own mind).

I'm sorry you hurt.  But, of course you hurt.  Any normal person would hurt to know that their heart, their dreams, their ultimate desires, their soul, had been conned and stolen, tricked and abused, then discarded.  It is their sickness, their need for supply, their learned behavior, their way of dealing with their own demons, their lack of self esteem, their pathetic manipulation of others.

My recent experience has made me sad, but also has rubbed it in more than ever that my ex is not who she presented herself to be, that she is not the person I thought she was, that she did not love me, that I was just a source of supply for her, that she is not the true love and soulmate that I had thought and hoped.  So, maybe you, too, will be helped by this recent event in your saga.  I hope so.

Best, Brucey

[blade]

Yes Skip, I have that same box of stuff in my closet. I can relate brother... .After a year and change of make ups and break-ups of a seriously commited three year relationship, I have allowed myself to become her Friend with Benefits.

A couple of weeks ago we went on a five day exotic trip that I paid for. We had some good times, sex and partying, (of course I deluded myself into thinking it would be more than just good screwing) But lots of BPD drama but a major damper on what could have been a beautiful trip, even if we were now just sex pals.

I have also realized that she will forever keep pushing me away, only to see if she can reel me back in with one more romp in the sac... .Just so she can act out with her abuse, screwing of other men, withholding, degrading, etc... .She wants to see if she can kill me a little more while I am still breathing.

Now the question for me is... .When do I take reponse-ability and end all contact with her for good.

[Skippy]

All's fair in love and war... .

This I accept.  But even in war, there are some rules of human decency.  This one, now that I've realized it, is way over my "zone".  I've figured it out two days ago... .have tried to temper my feelings, put it in perspective, not react now (its over - no point)... .but, for some reason in my mind, this is a level of human injustice far lower than anything of the things that fall into my category of "BP madness".

I walked away and painfully preserved respect for this person. I forgave her for her actions and accepted it (not excused) as a function of her disorder.  If she was suffering and she took those emotions out on me (cheating, raging, etc) so be it. This is mental illness.

But in a time of calm, to have so little respect for me as to use me as a source of money and services... .that's not a human in distress... .that's a human void of character.

Like everyone here, I wanted to get past it... .and I was making great progress of just accepting it as a lost love... .we had some good times, and some bad... .I was 90% of the way to the finish line... .

This pegs it at 100%... .but the legacy changes... .  I didn't want this to happen... .I didn't want to disparage her character... .write her off... .see her as the same "class" of person you describe above, Lenny... .a sociopath.

I may have let her step over a lot of boundaries... .but never this one (I just didn't see it) and now that I do, I won't give her 2 more minutes of my mind ever... .or feel 1 quantum of remorse that it failed.

Corrine - your story is awful.  After all the damage he did to you, he came back to use you as "firewood"... .expecting that you would extend him this courtesy because you were suffering from a lost love... .vulnerable.  I do believe you know what I am feeling.

Bruce - thanks for the very warm sentiments... .I was very moved by your recent hurt too, as you know.  Its good to have friends.   

I have always felt sad about this loss as you know... .and I worked  very hard to let go without a lot of collateral damage; preserving my respect (tempered) for her and myself, maintaining family contact, and phasing things out with dignity.   I rarely say anything derogatory and its usually in a clinical sense.  Today I don't feel sad... .I feel fed-up.  Disgusted.  Done.   I'm glad you can see the progress in that, as pathetic as it is.

I don't know how exactly to describe it Bruce.  I have young kids in the neighborhood and they jump all over my Golden Retriever (sometimes it hurts her)... .but they kids, they get excited, don't know any better, Skip's pup is still happy to see them, and I want them to think of us as their friend.  But if one day, one of them went in the garage, calmly searched out a baseball bat, called the dog over and smashed her head... .every thing would change.  I wouldn't make one excuse for that child. 

Its the same thing for the BP  now.  I think Corrine felt it too.  You and I read a lot of BP stories here, and lots can be "written off" to BP madness, but at some point, it even goes over that line.  This all became obvious to me in thinking about why you didn't have this reaction to your x. 

I knew  the truth would ultimately set me free.  But just when I thought the truth couldn't get any uglier - it did. 

But nonetheless, it still sets me free.

Skippy

PS.  Blade,  Do you ever think your emotional involvement (not physical) with her  keeps you from finding the "real" love? 

It's not about time and benefits... .its about how open your heart is and how motivated you are to  search for love.  Maybe you should focus your emotion  on this and not worry too much about you involvement  (too much or too little) with "Friend with Benefits". 

Once you get some traction on your search for a new love, you interest in  "Friend with Benefits" will likely wane.  After all, it is a dead-end street that won't look very favorable when compared to a healthy available "real" person.

[Skippy]

The list of adjectives is endless Skip for describing aspects of the behaviors we tolerated. But no matter the circumstance, when you strip away the hurt so poorly described by words, all that remains is profound mental illness. - Lenny

Lenny, thanks for the tempered words... .profound mental illness.  Much better.

And I apologize to anyone I've offended with my outrageous vocabulary today.  600 posts, many in deep pain and hurt, and you won't find one of these words in any of them... .

There is something so violating about what I've just learned... .these are the words that spurted out from my soul... .uncensored.  Thanks mods for not locking this one this one down and just letting me get it out.  I'm exhausted.

I really see her as trash.  

that's a human void of character.

What a piece of sht, dirtball, human being.

This is about no character - scum.

a sociopath.

I feel fed-up.  Disgusted.  Done. 

as pathetic as this is

I need to get her filth out of my house, mind, past.

[blade]

Yeah Skip, I had as much as seven weeks of NC with my xuBPDgf... .I was doing some light dating, but I had not met anyone who I clicked with. My X contacted me when I was having one of my weak nights. I felt I had distanced myself enough emotionally to see her and her daughter as more friends. I was wrong. It was her idea to add some "just sex" to it. But I realize I am not wired to just have sex with her and no feelings. Anyway, we technically broke up over a year ago, and I have taken most of my life back since... .Music, sports, friends, exercise, etc. Today I was thinking/feeling how I have lost most (not all) of my sexual/addicted attraction to her... .Must be all of those Anti-Psychic Vampire incantations and rituals I have been performing nightly with crystals! (That was a joke for Lenny)

[Krakatoa]

Skip, it's really hard to decipher where normality ends and a disorder begins, the lines are so,so blurred, so intermittant,so unique to one's own experience that the reality one actually lived and the reality that you imagined and strived for become fractured, cracked and ultimately a facade.Yet we scaffold,we nut and bolt all the more desperately in order for that movie set to become real.

It's no way to live. We run out of nuts, then bolts, then spanners and all available tools.

Our resources run dry... .The whole darn town collapses.

False reality... .falsely reinforced time and time again.

One sees the need for construction and durability, the other sees the need for destruction and immediate renewal regardless of the consequences.

It's called bad development.

No wonder you're angry , no wonder you're pissed.

Stamp on that box my friend as it represents a whole world that you were only ever in it as a bit part player. She told you that you had the starring role, but all stars eventually burn out and they make oh so sure that your light dwindles to a mere flicker in order to feed their own internal flame.

They take, we give and give some more but we cannot give enough.

Giving is pleasurable, but it ultimately demands reciprocation. When none is forthcoming then one begins  to question ones motives. As soon as that happens BOTH parties are affected, the status quo is rocked. The dynamics you had are immutably altered.

You're a very clever man Skip.

You know what's best for you .You need to be angry and you'll need to grieve. You were horribly betrayed and cheated upon. How else is anyone expected to react ?

All support

K

[JMR]

But I never realized that in the last 12-18 months the realtionship crossed over into something else - A period of time where she kept me around for what I could provide... I was just being "used"... .this level of ugliness never ever crossed my mind - even this week, I believed in her more than to do that - but in hindsight - I can see it clarly.  And its indisputable.

Everyone here who's had a BPD relationship of any duration, and been away from it a bit, knows exactly what you mean, Skip. It sickens the heart. It's brought tears to me many times, crying not over her, or over the relationship or the loss as such, but crying that such experiences happen at all, that life is that way. Most recently, it was apparent when my x "came back" to me after dumping me and quickly taking up with someone else.  After a couple of months, she indicated she made a mistake with him, wanted me back.  But I didn't feel anything from her.  She seemed to sit there interviewing me, figuring out exactly what she would get through the course of action. I couldn't decide whether it was a dream come true or a nightmare, at first.  Then, a day later, she changed her mind.  Guess I didn't quite measure up.

Thank God you're feeling the anger.  I've felt lots of that, but even worse at times I've vaguely felt I deserved such treatment, which makes something deep in me quake.

I too initially felt there was a point where "the relationship crossed over into something else," but since then I've wondered if it wasn't always a mixture, but a shifting mixture.  It seems there was both love and exploitive using, but for a time the love was much more pronounced and the exploitation smaller, and then the balanced shifted.  At other dark moments, I wonder if I only imagined the love was greater once. . . .

In any event, it's an experience that's got to be felt to be understood.  Sorry to know that you understand.

[stayingstrong]

I'm sorry you hurt.  But, of course you hurt.  Any normal person would hurt to know that their heart, their dreams, their ultimate desires, their soul, had been conned and stolen, tricked and abused, then discarded.  It is their sickness, their need for supply, their learned behavior, their way of dealing with their own demons, their lack of self esteem, their pathetic manipulation of others.

My recent experience has made me sad, but also has rubbed it in more than ever that my ex is not who she presented herself to be, that she is not the person I thought she was, that she did not love me, that I was just a source of supply for her, that she is not the true love and soulmate that I had thought and hoped.  So, maybe you, too, will be helped by this recent event in your saga.  I hope so.

Best, Brucey

Well, it must be wake-up week. Skip, I'm so sorry you're having to go through this pain. I'm with you, bud. I just found out today that in addition to all the lies I KNOW I was told, my BPD lied about intimacy with others before we were together, and that since we've been apart (only 3 weeks) he's had several others. well, great. Now I am in the totally embarrasing and horrifying place of having to get tested for everything.

They lie, abuse, use others, and when we finally quit them, they move on to other victims. I feel like a naive idiot for ever believing a word. I don't want to just stomp on that box, I want to run my car over it and blow the freaking thing to smithereens.

The only good  news in all of this is as you said. It gets you to 100% OVER IT. Be angry. You deserve to be. I'm done with feeling sorry for them.

Bruce, I'm feeling just what you said and I believe Skip does, too. Conned. Used. Their supplier. Manipulated.

I tell you what, this is a rude awakening. Ruder than I ever thought I was in for.

[JMR]

I don't want to just stomp on that box, I want to run my car over it and blow the freaking thing to smithereens.

Some of us have done it.  I once bought a ring for my x, and when she was incredibly cruel, shortly before I gave it to her, I smashed it with a hammer and ran over it.  I kept it as a reminder of how I felt at that moment, lest I ever forget.  Of course I did.  Funny, when we "made up" some time later, she saw it at my apt. and asked what it was. . . and I told her.  A few days later I noticed it had disappeared.  She admitted she had taken it and thrown it away.  Guess she was afraid it might work.

[kathy45]

Hi Skip

I just popped in to see how you have been doing and read your post. 

It sure hurts to think someone had so little concern for us as human beings... .We can call them sick or as a friend of mine says it ... she's a mean woman and a nasty butt that uses and controls you... .but I'm nice and I like who I am and everything I did I did out of love because its who I am,,and the things you  did are who you  are, done in good faith... .she is the bad one, you can move on (hopefully we can anyway) but she never can,,she is stuck in her badness... .

As far as I've come in my recovery, I realized this week that I'm still not functioning at "total reality".  Its is so darn elusive!   AHHHH!

I can see it in others, so I've been very conscientious about working it, and I've been driving in face of it for months... .I keep thinking I am there, and then this week, I realize I am still not totally there.

will we ever really be the same... maybe not ,,probably not... but perhaps we can be even more real and alert to those that might want to harm us... It's like biting into the apple and seeing evil... .

First time I've been angry.  First time, I really see her as trash.

My counsellor always tells me that anger can be a healthy emotion we should feel angry if someone is treating us poorly ,,the anger should keep us away... my problem was I was to quick to forgive... .

i'm glad your angry Skip... .Because that

piece of sht, dirtball, human being.

treated you in a way you  didn't deserve, she had no right to make you  feel the way she has and she deserves well... .she doesn't deserve you  ... your to good for her.////

Take care

Love ya

Kathy

[brucey]

I've told this story before, but it's been a while and there are many here who have not heard it.  It fits my feelings elicited by this thread.

Years ago my best friend fell in love with a borderline woman.  She lied, cheated, and led him on in the most egregious way.  He couldn't take it any more and killed himself.  His parents were devastated.  I became their best friend and helped them deal with the loss of their beloved son and hatred for the woman.  When I was with my ex, we often had dinner with my best friend's parents, and my ex came to "love" the mother.  They were our closest friends.  A year of that and then my ex discarded me for a man she had seduced at work.  She told the mother that we didn't fit together.  A month later the mother saw my ex with her new soulmate in a grocery store.  She said hi.  My ex simply stared at her like a Stepford wife, then rushed out of the store.  For my ex, worlds had collided.  The next week she brought her boyfriend to the coffee shop where the father hung out.  She purposely sat where he would see her.  Mind you, my friend, the father, had suffered the loss of his son to suicide because of a similar woman.  My ex knew that.  Still, she purposely positioned herself, in leather miniskirt, with her new boyfriend in order to purposely hurt the father.  He told me that he hurried home, but didn't make it, he threw up before he got there.  He called me and said, "Bruce, she is evil, she is pure evil.  I looked into her eyes and I saw a psychopath, a pure psychopath."  This was the woman I was engaged to, who had proposed to me, who had told everyone I was her soulmate and true love, who claimed to want to help people and be compassionate, who wrote to me that she could not live without me, that she would/could never be unfaithful.  She purposely showed her new boyfriend to our friend -- rubbing it in.  She knew where he would be.  We were friends.  So I thought.  She is an evil SOB.

[Skippy]

Years ago my best friend fell in love with a borderline woman.  She lied, cheated, and led him on in the most egregious way.  He couldn't take it any more and killed himself. 

I looked into her eyes and I saw a psychopath... .

Death.  I am sorry we have stories of death to share.

In my case it was the x husband.  He killed himself 2 years into my relationship, in a closet, a few feet away from his beloved boys bedrooms.  They came home from school, never opened the closet door, and headed out for after school activities.  It was the largest caliber of handgun.

In the days that followed, sBP told  me she thought it was because of her.  They had been married 10 years when she walked out , leaving him to raise two (8 and 10 year old) little boys while she became the "hot little blond" dating no less than 6 different MDs - 5 of which were married, one,  22 years her senior (a victim still, today). 

She was a medical assistant, an education her husband worked 2 full time jobs to fund, only to have her leave weeks after graduation.  He rebounded into another marriage - understandably - he wanted a family to raise two young boys.  They were his life.

With us, she made a point of showing her X how well she had done.  Bragging about my accomplishments.  Bragging about our relationship and the fact that I was the only one that ever really reached her heart.

And her boys loved me.  Skip had a cool boat to spend the weekends on, a great home in the city, a fun car, a big happy dog to cuddle.  Skip took them to parks and ballgames and treated them like men, equals. Skip had the easy part. 

Skip spent time with dad when one of the boys was hospitalized... .dad liked Skip too... .boys were surprised.  Dad was an OK guy.

But for dad, his boys were coming home every other weekend all excited about the time with Mom and Skip... .and then his reality was taking them to the doctor, driving them to school, discipline, teenage squabbles, paying the bills, and a not so rewarding rebound marriage. They couldn't wait for that every other weekend trip to the city.  Dad was meeting with his attorney and sister for weeks, making arrangements, setting up new accounts, directing the inheritance he had stashed away for the boys college.

I'm the one that found out about the suicide first.  I went to her office to tell her.  She knew it was because of her.  He had talked to her about it - transferred some funds in her name.

In the weeks/months that followed she became angry.  Angry that he did this to HER.  Ripped her out of her happy "occasional mom" , single life, best restaurants in town and forced her to finish raising 2 boys in the far suburbs.

Skip did everything he could to father these boys... .setting up a house in 24 hours, 50 miles away in their school district, changing his entire life to "boys first", and  most of all, loving them as my own.  Helping them understand that their father deeply loved them... .and that Skip could love them too and there be no conflict in any of it.  Skip really loved these little boys.  Skip loved these boys, totally.

When Skip lost the boys... .Skip realized what the X had really going gone through.  Unfortunately, Dad didn't know about BPD.  He couldn't go for therapy (he was too manly for it), he didn't have a computer, he was not one to read, he just had a world twisted, and an internal pain that he could never quiet, until that fateful Monday morning.  Skip slide very far down that rope after being rejected too... .  but Skip survived.

In Greek mythology, the SEIRENES were three sea Daimones (spirits) who lured passing sailors to their death with their bewitching siren-song.

I think everyone here knows that bewitching song.

[brucey]

Skip, that is a terrible story.  So sad.

Every time I tell people the story of my best friend they tell me a similar story.  Apparently it is far too common.

Yes, I heard the siren song.  I am sick about it.  I am sick to think that I was so in love and dedicated and that it was all an ephemeral trick, a ghost, a fun little game.  Then she's off to the next one.  For a long, long time it absolutely killed me inside to think of her with another man, and I certainly might have killed myself, too, except that I did not have a good method.  Today I am cynical about life and people; deeply chagrined that such stories are so common, that there are so many people who are so coldly calloused.  My best friend shot himself in a coffee shop with his borderline girlfriend sitting across from him, her hand on the gun that was in his mouth when he pulled the trigger.  His head hit the floor so hard that it broke the tile.  The next day, the coffee shop owner told us, the girlfriend casually came into the same coffee shop and ordered her morning brew.  It didn't bother her at all, in fact she was likely getting some good supply by being there and thinking about how she was desired so much and had such a profound effect on my friend.

[Skippy]

We're standing Bruce.  We survived.

I've been fighting to find the full, unvarnished reality and look it square in the eyes for months; Rejecting the self sympathy, fighting against rationalization. 

I know the truth, of it all... .me, her, everyone involved.  Beautiful, ugly, painful,  wonderful, naive, honest, desperate, cold hearted... .every piece, where one started and another left off. 

This last dose of reality was very significant... .

Two days ago, the little tiny remnants of the song went silent for me.

             

                  I think it is finally over.

[Sapphire]

Skip & Brucey, those are two of the saddest stories that I think I've ever read here at bpdfamily. Not just YOUR stories, but also the stories you both told... :'(

I thought I saw it all, having to deal w/ Jigsaw, and watching Ace having to deal w/ his ex...

How can these people live w/ themselves?

Do they have a conscience? Do they have any morals or standards? Do they have any feelings at all? Do they even have a soul?

I just don't understand... .

Skip, I'm so sorry that you are having to experience this ultimate betrayal. It hurts, and it angers you: God, how I know that feeling. It boggles the mind. But, if it's any consolation, at least now you KNOW. And as painful as it is, it is also a relief. Because once you pass this barrier, you will take your life back, and you'll be free. Free to move on, and free to experience a whole new life. Your life will never be the same again, but with your newfound knowledge, you will never be hurt like this again... .

It will only get better from here: I promise you...

Peace be with you,

~SD~

[brucey]

No, I don't believe that my ex has a conscience.  She was telling me how much she loved me, needed me, couldn't live without me, telling her family that she never believed in soulmates until she met me, that I was perfect for her, she told my family that we would be married in a small town nearby, she wrote me deep love letters, she showered me with affection and sex, and, at the same time, while she was leading me on, had proposed to me, accepted a new, expensive house, car, diamond ring, trips, etc., was seducing men at work, lining one up to go live with, planned to be with him, AT THE SAME TIME SHE WAS TELLING ME THAT I WAS HER SOULMATE, TRUE LOVE, KING, AND PLANNING OUR WEDDING.  I didn't really figure out all of this until she was gone.  She never admitted to it.  I asked her if she loved me, and she said yes.  I asked if she was in love with me, and she said yes.  So, I asked how she could then cheat on me, and she said she hadn't cheated.  She was lying.  She claimed to have a dream of visiting Amsterdam and Paris, so I started to plan a trip.  I asked when she finished her semester at University and she told me late August.  That meant we couldn't go. Later, after she left, I was suspicious and looked up when her semester ended.  It was early August.  She had lied so we couldn't go to Europe.  She gave up that trip so she could continue her secret affair. She probably knew she wouldn't be with me.  Yet, she continued to give me cards, letters, and gifts telling me that she "relished" marrying me, wanted to take my last name (she had been married before and kept her name), that I was everything she wanted.  She accepted a new car from me at that time, when she was lining up another man and planning to go live with him.  I found out all this stuff after she left.  She kept leading me on until the night before she left.  On a Tuesday night she told me how much she loved me and needed me, how much fun we were going to have on a trip to San Francisco the next weekend, and talked about our future plans.  The next day she called me at work and said she had to break up with me.  She moved in with the new guy.  I never talked to her again.  I later learned that she has done the same thing to other men.  In fact, she is no longer with the guy she moved in with.  She's not even with the next guy I saw her with.  She has no conscience.  She showed herself and her new boyfriend to our best friend, the guy whose son had killed himself because of a similar woman.  I'm sure she got lots of supply from that.  I was totally conned.  She is an expert at it.  A psychopath.

My experiences online and in talking to people about my ex have taught me that there are many, many such people.  They are everywhere.  They have no conscience.  Psychiatrists say that 4% of the public has antisocial personality disorder.  But there are many more than that who do not meet the diagnosis because they don't commit crimes.  They are people of the lie.  They are users.  It is a high percentage.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least 10% of the public.  One out of ten people will use you, abuse you, con you, trick you, and discard you without any conscience or regret.  My ex is out there now doing it to more men.  The woman who my best friend was in love with is out there too.  Skip's ex is out there too.  Using people.

My big problem now is that I will forever be unable to trust anyone.  Maybe that is good.  I see characteristics of my ex in everyone I meet.  I am the world's biggest cynic now.  I see psychopaths in government, industry, education, religion, everywhere.  Users.  It is sad.

[Pookzilla]

Skip,

If you are the man that your posts have portrayed you to be, you'll learn a lot about yourself & grow in stature.  Either that or you'll allow her to develop in yourself, traits that are as lowly as the ones you see in her.  You can rise above this experience, share what you've learned with others in a way that helps both of you.  Or you can choose to allow the ways of a disordered person, lead you into becoming less of a man.  You've got what it takes to be all that you can be, don't waste it.  Remember, the best revenge is success.

Pookie

[Sapphire]

Brucey, everytime I read your words I want to cry. You are still in so much  pain over what she did to you, and it breaks my heart. I can understand how you're feeling about being so cynical, b/c the world has become an evil place. There is so much of it out there; you see it every day. And it's sad, it truly is. I see it too, and I want to scream sometimes. I especially saw it after Hurricane Rita blew through, and I witnessed all the greed & insanity of the people who took advantage of the situation. It was so dispairing. But Brucey, there has always been evil, and there always will be. Your ex opened your eyes to it, and took your "innocence" away; just like Jigsaw took my innocence away, and so many others were "conned" too. It will never change: Satan is out there... .always was, always will be. But there IS good out there also. You just have to look for it. It will never be easy, because it's so hard to find, but it IS there. If you let what your ex did to you ruin you, then SHE wins... .EVIL wins. I know the world sucks, Brucey, and I know how depressing it is to watch it all go to hell. But we're only here for a short time, and it's up to us to make the best of it, ya know? Just b/c your ex refuses to see the error of her ways... .well I know it pi$$es you off, but it's her problem, not yours. Please don't let what she does ruin you. There IS good out there, too... .

As Pookie pointed out, the best revenge is success. You & Skip & everyone else can beat this. The world is a ___ed up place, but it's up to you to NOT let it ___ you up, too. You have to make the best of what God gave you...

Sorry if I hijacked your thread, Skippy... :-\

~SD~

[Skippy]

My big problem now is that I will forever be unable to trust anyone.  Maybe that is good.  I see characteristics of my ex in everyone I meet.  I am the world's biggest cynic now.  I see psychopaths in government, industry, education, religion, everywhere.  Users.  It is sad.

A misery is not to be measured from the nature of the evil, but from the temper of the sufferer. - Joseph Addison

Hey King!

As much as the stories above, it breaks my heart to read about you (Bruce) having the life sucked out of you because of this experience.

There is a book, Search for Happiness, written in the 50's by philosopher Bertrand Russell.  It's an educated read (not a self help book), but well worth the time. He talks about all the components of happiness (social, personal, professional) and how they work together.  He points out how the "cynical" and the "unhappy" actually live in a world that feeds it... .a world that can be adjusted or changed. Some of it is very simple - for example, scientists are generally happier than musicians:

- most people are in awe of the scientists work; failure is an accepted part of the discovery process

- everybody is a music critic and only a small percent of people like any particular music style; failure is the norm.

He also talks about the difference between mental illness and normal traits - my take being we all (more or less) have the traits of a BPD, we just don't have them to the extent that make us pathologic.  Same is trues for narcissism, et. al. 

Bruce, be careful how you read these symtoms in others... .heart burn and a heart attack have the same symtoms.  I too thought everyone had BPD after breaking out (even Skippy's loyal dog, "Hamburger"... .its just an initial over reaction we have.

In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying. -Bertrand Russell

Bruce, PM me your work address and I will send you my personal copy (not a copy)... .It would be a great gift to me to put my book in your house.  I mean that.


Skip

King?  I never got to "King" 



www.quotationspage.com/subjects/suffering/

[deeplyaffected]

Skip- I really hope this helps you in your healing process. There have been so many times where i would just wish I could get so angry at the ex. I just can't. I know he is a scumbag, but the love isn't gone- that's all I still see. I am proud of you though. If there ever is a re-engagement, anger is a good way to avoid getting sucked back it. Just don't let it succumb you. Please don't think all people are like that.

[Skippy]

(1) Skip- I really hope this helps you in your healing process. Just don't let it succumb you. Please don't think all people are like that.

(2) There have been so many times where i would just wish I could get so angry at the ex. I just can't. I know he is a scumbag, but the love isn't gone- that's all I still see. I am proud of you though. If there ever is a re-engagement, anger is a good way to avoid getting sucked back it.

Thanks for the support Deep, Shattered, Pook, Bruce.  Some thoughts, Deep... .

(1) I had come to peace without the anger - I then realized something bad... .and it made me see her in a much darker light... .but I was fine before.  I was at peace with it being over and without disparaging her, or getting angry.  Kinda wish it could have stayed that way - but if you keep searching for the truth, you have to deal with it when you find it. 

As to being cynical - I'm not negative in the slightest - I've always been an optimist - I am just looking in the rear view mirror a little more these days - and trying to do it without making the passengers nervous.  Balance is everything 

(2) I used to think the same thing - anger would make it easier - but false anger is a harmful thing in my mind.  If you love him, its really OK.  Accept it with comfort. Spend your efforts understanding how you live your life feeling that.  It's very doable.

I love her kids and, although its a little harder to say after what I realized, I probably still love her too.  More importantly, I know how to go forward, live my life, have this feeling , and not suffer.  I accept, for example, that the most loving thing I can do for her sons is not contact them (for reasons I can't cover here- but are in other posts).  This doesn't effect my love - but it does affect how I act... .what I expect.

Getting in touch with the reality is so hard... .but its freeing and you can deal with it.  If you love him, accept it.  If he's an s-bag accept that.  You need a life, accept that.  Look at it all and find some thread that ties it together so you can live.

This was an incredible life experience.  I believe I am a better man for it.  Although, if I had a choice, this is one experience I could have forgone.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Incredibly trite and wornout statement - but there is some truth to it.

Skippy

[brucey]

Thanks, Shattered Dreams, very kind of you, as always.

Skip, a very nice offer, but you keep your copy, I will find one for me.  I like Bertrand Russell.  Wittgenstein too.

Anyway, my problem is my problem.  There is no solution to it.  So be it.  My ex taught me a lesson that no one should have to learn.  I was much better off when I had the illusion that things could work out.  Maybe.

I know that it is too late for me, unless a time machine becomes available.  Even then. . . . . . .

[Sapphire]

Anyway, my problem is my problem.  There is no solution to it.  So be it.  My ex taught me a lesson that no one should have to learn.  I was much better off when I had the illusion that things could work out.  Maybe.

I know that it is too late for me, unless a time machine becomes available.  Even then. . . . . . .

Brucey, it breaks my heart to see you feel this way: it truly does. Your ex took your life away, too... just like your friend's ex took HIS life away. Maybe you didn't commit suicide like he did, but it still amounts to the same thing, almost. She sucked the life out of you... .she won.

I don't know what to say anymore. I am so sorry... :'(

~SD~

Skip, I tried to open the link to that suffering quotes thing that you posted, but to no avail. Is there another way to get to it?

Thanks,

~SD~