Is the BPD really the problem?

[Peace4us]

Bob

I have never lessened the consequences of my actions.  I have not ignored the role I played in the mess of my previous marriage.  I have accepted my responsibility of my life and the role I do play in the lives of my children.

Was BPD a problem?  Absolutely, no one deserved the abuse I sustained

Was codependency a problem Absolutely, it created the environment for the abuse to exist to the level it did.

Was our familiy backgrounds a problem?  Yes, as was family of origin issues.

Does it matter what came first the chicken or the egg?  Not really, all aspects contributed to a horrible situation and placing blame on any one thng is fruitless in my case.

I have no control on anyone but me, so I made the effort to work on me.  I am responsible for what I was teaching my kids, so I left the abuse and created a healthy environment for my children.  I sought help with a truly qualified therapist who allowed me to focus forward.

This all said I also do not alleviate the mess created by the existence of BPD in my life

Peace4us

[ImOk]

I know i shouldn't take i personally,,but I am so emotionally involved I do... I'm trying to distance myself... and i appreciate all the encouraging words I can get... .

Kathy,

    Extricating yourself from this relationship physically and emotionally is a daunting task. Huge. You have to break it down into a series of small, manageable steps that will ultimately lead out.

    How would you eat an elephant? You wouldn't  try to swallow it whole, you'd do it one bite at a time.

Anything, no matter how large it looms or how difficult it seems can be overcome this way... .just start moving in the "out' direction and don't look back... .one small step at a time. Hang in there.

[Bob58]

Bob

I have never lessened the consequences of my actions.  I have not ignored the role I played in the mess of my previous marriage.  I have accepted my responsibility of my life and the role I do play in the lives of my children.

Was BPD a problem?  Absolutely, no one deserved the abuse I sustained

Was codependency a problem Absolutely, it created the environment for the abuse to exist to the level it did.

Was our familiy backgrounds a problem?  Yes, as was family of origin issues.

Does it matter what came first the chicken or the egg?  Not really, all aspects contributed to a horrible situation and placing blame on any one thng is fruitless in my case.

I have no control on anyone but me, so I made the effort to work on me.  I am responsible for what I was teaching my kids, so I left the abuse and created a healthy environment for my children.  I sought help with a truly qualified therapist who allowed me to focus forward.

This all said I also do not alleviate the mess created by the existence of BPD in my life

Peace4us

Peace,

In many ways you've just summed up the points I've been trying to make.

[Skippy]

I just have to be a little tougher...

I'm trying... .Kathyu45

I just have to be a little tougher [TRY: motivated to survive]... .

I can't but feel in reading your post that you are feeling defeated, humiliated, beaten... .these are not the ingredients of "survivor", these are the ingredients of "victim".   I don't think this is about toughness... .its about your "will to survive"... .I crawled to safety on my belly... .you remember my darkest days... .I bled through it all.  Tough?  Hardly. Motivated, yes.

It's 3+ years that you have been saying pretty much the same thing all this time... .always during an abuse cycle.  You whisper "I'll try". 

You then disappear again during the reward cycle.  I can remember 7-8 of these cycles myself.  You will disappear this time when she snaps her fingers again and plays nice.

It's time to get some intensive help, Kathy.  There are programs for this... some one to be by your side 24 hours a day during the first 6 weeks... .some one to remind you every time you want to turn back... .

Look at it as camp for "nons"   CampKathy  8)

If you're motivated you will grab onto anything and everything that works and use it to pull yourself out.  Anything. Everything

(Notice the word try does not appear anywhere in this sentence)

EXAMPLE www.rogershospital.org/symptoms_co-dependency.php

Skippy

[Peace4us]

Bob

I figured we were on the same page.  Trying to figure all of this out and make sense of it often is harder than we think.  Thanks for starting a thought evoking thread. Its threads like this that I think help us to unravel the insanity and look at our role, and distribute the cause and effect among all participants.

This relates to chosen relationships. For those who are unchosen they played no roll in it(BPD) being in their lives and that point I think is important to make.

I fall into both categories as my mother was an uBPD.(see that family of origin thing?)

Peace4us

[Bob58]

This relates to chosen relationships. For those who are unchosen they played no roll in it(BPD) being in their lives and that point I think is important to make.

I fall into both categories as my mother was an uBPD.(see that family of origin thing?)

Peace4us

I definitely agree.  My only BP frame of reference if from the "Chosen" side. 

"Unchosen" is a whole different , and much more complicated, ball of wax!  And, from my perspective, you're doing beautifully with it.

*ps... .This is actually Skippy's thread. I've just monopolized it. 

[kathy45]

Skip.

thanks for your recomendations... .I know you  think i'm codependent... .My therapist does not think that and neither do I ... .Perhaps it does come across that way here... .I do have some issues but being attached to someone is not one of them... .I am in counselling, as you  know... .

Co-dependency stems from feelings of personal inadequacy and relationship dependency, often established by unhealthy family patterns or accompanied by other underlying issues. Characterized by poor communication, unrealistic expectations, and low self-esteem, it can easily erode healthy interpersonal relationships and interfere with professional, social and family life.

this is not me at all... .not at all... .I do think we should be careful about diagnosing people we talk to on bpdfamily... .

I blame no one but myself for what has gone on in my life and in no way want pity from anyone... .I am not saying poor me... .I am bewildered by the meaness that exists in the borderline... .i don't think i will ever get over that... .but its there... .and I know it... .

And yeh I am serious about being out of the relationship... I am ... .and yes it hurts very much... .

Skip thank you  for always showing me concern ,,I do appreciate it  and i'm going to read back over your messages to gain strength when it is hurting... .its not the walking away from her that hurts me ,I look forward to it, but the pain of knowing soemone purposely tried to hurt and damage me ( and she won';t say she's sorry),,that anger is going to be with me for a long time... and yeh I am angry... .

[Skippy]

thanks for your recomendations... .I know you  think i'm codependent... .My therapist does not think that and neither do I ... .Perhaps it does come across that way here... .I do have some issues but being attached to someone is not one of them... .

Kath'... thanks for the kind comments.  I wish you well in all of this.

Please don't get sidetracked on a label - there is an unhealthy bind in this relationship - there are no children or financial/household reasons holding you in... .its purely in your mental/emotional make-up 

The rehab programs I've sent you, and there are many, are simply an opportunity to physically force something you cannot seem to "will".  An intensive NC.  I spoke to a director at one clinic 6 months ago... .they take people in your situation.

But my point is not how to do, or what to call it... .its only that its not about her anymore.  Its about you.

Skippy

[kathy45]

Yes ,,its about me ,,your absolutely right... .

What and where was the clinic that you  were talking about Skip...

[LAnn]

Maybe neither the BPD or the Non is a problem.  Maybe it is larger than a problem; maybe it is a process: life, growth, and becoming more fully human, for both.

I think that BPDs select partners, like everyone does, according to natural inclinations.  For example, a high-functioning BPD looks for love in people who are basically high functioning, successful individuals.  I don't think they look for weaknesses, but rather strength in personality and lifestyle.   As for nons, I think that people who have open, translucent, relating styles are attractive to BPDs because they are receptive and supportive in nature.  They give love; and BPDs if anything, seek love... .even if they are unable to sustain it. 

I wonder if nons' relationship skills might be actually above average?  Certainly, as problems arise and increase, and become clearly unsustainable, nons have much self-relfection and self-growth to pursue.  But I still think it is over-simplistic to throw the entire weight of responsibility to the non as a negative.   It rather can be seen as an opportunity to develop even greater relationship knowledge.  Just imagine all the people who have not had such fortune (misfortune if you like)  in life to love so much and to experience such depths of their BPD's alienation from intimacy, as well as the non's own depth of insights -- into compassion and comprehension of another human being's suffering in struggling to love?

Really.  Do you think, even after all the devastation, you are less of a person for experiencing this struggle of humanity, or more?

[kathy45]

LAnn

You  have avery positive ways of looking at it and I tend to look at it that was as well... .It has allowed me to expose my shortcomings to myself and therefore I can work on them,,Although,i would far rather have just gone on in life and not be challenged to the point that I have been... but its to late to change whats happened... bur rather just go form this point... .I agree that the high functioning BP looks for successful people, my BP is very critical of those that she does not consider up to her level... .I always did feel she looked up to me and my opinions.

Do you think, even after all the devastation, you are less of a person for experiencing this struggle of humanity, or more?

If I can really come out of this I will be a much wiser person... although i have lost alot in the process... .

[LAnn]

Hi Kathy45,

I am now able to look at things more objectively because of the stage of healing I am in, having progressed to two years.  I will own that in the early stages of healing much of my attention was not on my personal work, but rather on salving my wounds.  This involved a lot of looking at how I was wronged.  Gradually I released enough of the pain to begin looking at me.    (And perhaps this is what Skip is saying:  that ultimately the attention returns to oneself to find renewed strength and growth.)

I think that everyone at some point in their life experiences suffering (beyond the little and big disappointments  of normal living.)  I certainly see most of our experiences here as involving deep and anguished suffering.  I think it is natural to want to think we could have avoided it if we had just been more perfect, and consequently to feel less for the losses in self.  I certainly felt less.  I felt completely broken.  Yet, we come to each experience as we are, with the knowledge we have.  And we do the best we can.  As you say, I think we do become wiser,  and we improve the ability to guide our lives away from rocky shores. 

For a time, at first, the "problem" is BPD.  And for a time, the "problem" is me and my desired growth.  And now maybe I'm in transition to looking at life as a process of unfolding, no longer defining my experiences as a problem that I shouldn't have had (with its self-judgment?)  --  and moving into accepting "what is" and what I am learning?