5.06 | Being "friends" after a break-up

[JoannaK]

This workshop will discuss various issues of leaving a difficult relationship.  It will include links to problems and "forms" of ending difficult relationships, whether the non is the person to leave or whether the BPD moves on.

1.  Disengagement.

Contact with the pwBPD after the breakup:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120426.0;all


2.  Ambiguous loss...

(See below)


3.  Leaving but attempting to be "friends".

This topic comes up over and over.

4.  A link to the No Contact Workshop, a necessary tool for some when attempting to end these relationships.

[JoannaK]

Thanks to Spook120 for the following information:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63304.msg602964

     Ambiguous Loss

« on: September 25, 2007, 06:31:09 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

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     I attended a tramatic brain injury conference at Mayo recently and found the key note speakers topic applicable to the situation some of us are or have been experiencing. Dr. Pauline Boss discussed an aspect of relationships in which a significant other experiences a TBI.  In this situation, the person lives after the trama but is not the same person in a variety of ways.  Most people can deal with loss if it is defined and finite.  With TBI (and dealing with BPD's who leave suddenly) it is neither. 

What is Ambiguous loss?  It is a loss that is unclear, thus confusing, it is a problem that has no answer, no resolution, a loss that has no verification, thus no closure.  Sound familiar?  Due to the ambiguity surrounding the loss, individuals remain confused.  Without comprehension they can't find meaning.  Without meaning they can't find hope to move forward in their lives.  Both the coping and grief process is immobilized.

There are two main typologies of ambiguous loss:  Leaving with out Goodbye, a physical abscence with psychological presence and Goodbye without leaving, a psychological absence with physical presence.  In either situation the outcomes are predictable:  Immobilization of individuals and their relationships, confused decision making processes, a grief process which is frozen, prevention of closure, a helplessness and hopelessness, and emotional exhaustion. 

Boss suggests that there is a process for recovery from ambiguous loss and relates these steps:  1.  Find meaning 2. Temper mastery 3. reconstruct identity 4. normalize ambivalence 5. revise attachment  6. discover hope.   A complete explanation of these are beyound the scope of this post and it is suggested you seek the complete statements from her postings/book.

In summary ambiguous loss is a tramatic loss, but on going and without closure.  It is stress based on ambiguity.  It need not come from physical trama such as a TBI as some of us most graphically know.

Spook.   

 

[JoannaK]

Thoughts and links about being "friends" with a BPD after a relationship is over:



A long thread initiated by artist27:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56888.0

In that thread, a comment by turtle:

    Re: The "friendship" question?

« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 09:45:21 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic  

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Quote from: artist27 on April 25, 2007, 12:49:52 AM

Do I want to be friends with a woman that I can not trust, I can not confide in, I can not let my self truly grow close to as a friend or otherwise, and who I can not count on to be their for me, but who will always expect me to be their for her?  

So we will see…can she be a friend?

Based on this paragraph, I say "no!"   Are you friends with anyone else that you can't trust, can't confide in, can't let yourself grow close to, can't coun't on to be ther for you, but always expects you to be there for them?  

This isn't friendship. And, like many others, my personal experience is that the bp is just not capable of friendship because they are not capable of any kind of close relationships -- period.  It's just too much work to be "friends" with a bp who was a former SO -- IMHO.  I would rather spend my energy cultivating healthy friendships.

Turtle

[JoannaK]

The link to the No/Low contact Workshop:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61980.0;all

Here's a link to a thread about the "Art of Disengagement":

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=101707.0 

[JoannaK]

From an old post:

Many people here try to convince themselves that they can be "friends", they don't need "No Contact", that perhaps people here are being too politically correct in suggesting No Contact.  I only think that we can have contact when we have gotten over the other person... .when we aren't still remembering the sex, the special times, the intimacy.  If all of that has passed, then perhaps we can occasionally be "friends"... .  but I don't know why anyone would want to be friends with someone who treated them like dirt. 

[Up From Here]

There is absolutely no way I, within every fiber of my being, can trust my ex on any level.  I did experience the "sudden departure" with no warning (along with the departure of the home furnishings, cash, and personal effects) and thus was the beginning of our separation.  It has been within that year that I found out about BPD and sought counsel from more than a few professionals before finding my own personal resources.

It was within this counsel that I was advised to observe her behaviors over a period of time to solidify my perceptions and see if they would gel with the guidance I did receive.

Sure enough, they did.

In that my ex was not present in therapy, she was not given a diagnosis by proxy.  My T did however state that he was sure I was married to someone who suffers from what appears to be BPD among other things including NPD, given the accuracy of the information that I gave to him.

I was advised that if I thought that there was a potential for violence and/or personal harm in some way that I go completely NC and to make it very clear to her that this was what I wanted.  Being that, in our history I was assaulted by her and given a situation where I had already stated to her that we were over yet she insisted on web-stalking me and given claims made by her that with former SO's she was violent etc. I had a reason to involve the police and did so.

In retrospect, this was one of the most loving things I could have done for myself.  She is allowed absolutely NO contact with me, at risk of arrest and charges, outside of the legal system and has no cause to contact me within it.

I have no desire to see that level of consequence for her but should I need it I won't hesitate to avail myself of these lawful services.

I cannot imagine why anyone would want to remain friends with a person like her.  She was not the person I married rather who she was, was the person I left... .for good.

Thank you for this workshop.

UFH

[JoannaK]

This Workshop was put together two years ago, but it is a timely topic.

When considering how much contact you will have/wish to have with someone with BPD, please consider the following: 

1.  Do you feel that the relationship is truly over... .or are you hoping that you can reconnect sometime in the future?

2.  If this was a romantic relationship, do you still have strong sexual feelings for the person?

3.  What do you feel that being a "friend" entails:  Going places together?  Talking about important personal issues?  "Hanging out?"  Discussing new men and/or women in your lives?  Someone to count on and help out when something bad happens?

4.  Does being a "friend" with the ex mean that you don't date others... .or that you have no interest in dating others?

5.  Are you considering being a "friend" because you fear that the ex may harm him/herself... .or may harm you?

6.  Does being a friend mean that you rehash the ended relationship?  That you are open to being told of your deficiencies... or that you tell the ex of his/her deficiencies?

7.  Are you leaving the door open to reconnection?

8.  Does one of you want to reconnect while the other wants to move on... .  at least romantically?

[RedRightHand]

My Ex BPD GF actually asked me "I know everyone always says this and it never happens but can we still be best friends?" after she dumped me.

I'll translate what she really meant... ."I still have a few uses for you and want to keep you around as backup, sucker"

[JoannaK]

My Ex BPD GF actually asked me "I know everyone always says this and it never happens but can we still be best friends?" after she dumped me.

I'll translate what she really meant... ."I still have a few uses for you and want to keep you around as backup, sucker"

Many who are trying to work out "friendships" with an ex w/BPD have these same feelings, RRH.  We are often so happy to have the pwBPD in our lives in some capacity, that we don't bother to really consider if the "friendship" means the same to both.