Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
October 30, 2020, 11:36:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Former BPDFamily Administrator Dies:
More information here

  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 3.04 | Domestic violence [for men]  (Read 35957 times)
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8348


« on: August 24, 2007, 05:28:00 PM »

One fact to be remembered is that men can be victims of DV, too. They can be victims of an aggressive municipal policing policies. And 450 men are killed each year (compared to 1,200 women) in domestic abuse conflicts.
 
The risk of false criminal arrest is daunting.  The well intended efforts to reduce 1,000-2,000 DV homicides and 500,000 DV hospital treated injuries by Attorneys General across the US has created a significant unintended outcome - a huge increase in false arrests.  Why is this?
 
Incentives for women to make false DV claims - a broad range of services and legal benefits:
 
  • Sole use and possession of the residence
  • Child custody
  • Reimbursement for counseling, medical care, and even attorney’s fees
  • Priority in receiving Title VIII low-cost housing and eligibility for other welfare services

Ease of having someone arrested - The Violence Against Women Act of 1994 explicitly endorsed a mandatory arrest policy—a watershed by traditional law enforcement standards that has increased arrest rates by 200%-400% in participating jurisdictions. As of 2007, the following 21 jurisdictions had established mandatory arrest policies - if the police come out, someone goes to jail.  Now, about one million persons are arrested annually under criminal law for intimate partner violence. Seventy-seven percent of these suspects are male.
-------------------------------------
Alaska
Arizona
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Iowa
Kansas
-------------------------------------
Louisiana
Maine
Mississippi
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
-------------------------------------
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Utah
Virginia
Washington

This workshop is to talk about:
 
For our safety (and the children) what is the best course of action to take if our parter is becoming physical?  What are things we want to be sure to avoid?
 
What types of scenarios are the highest risk for false DV claims? What types of things can we do to lower the risk that your partner will make a false claim of DV?  What types of things (that we do) will increase our risk?
 
When the police have been called out, what should we do?  What should we not do?

 
Note: This tread is not for discussions of fairness of the legal system or mens advocacy, how to defend a DV charges.  There are other threads for these topics.
Logged

 


BPDFamily
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 231



WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 07:28:07 PM »

To learn the bpdfamily DV protocol, click green cross that is displayed at the bottom of almost every page on the website:
 

Borderline Personality Disorder and Physical Abuse


 
Read article
Logged

StayingAfloat
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 607



« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 06:43:43 PM »

As a man, I find it extremely difficult to talk about physical abuse with anyone.  My wife included.  She doesn't see how it can be called "abuse" or thinks I'm overreacting when I lay down such firm boundaries around it.

It's also very easy to question myself "well, she didn't leave marks on me... .or, ahem, the marks went away after only 2 days... . or, it wasn't on purpose... .or, I'm twice as strong as she is and should be able to take it... ." etc. etc. etc.  

And then there's the risk that, if it gets bad and I actually call the authorities, all the suspicion will fall on me.  I'd be the one in jail for the night.
Logged
PDQuick
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Happily living with myself
Posts: 2828


Don't look outside for the answers within.


« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 08:32:44 AM »

I was arrested for DV once in our relationship, very bogus, and very made up. She tried to have me arrested several times throughout our relationship for DV. She had me arrested a second time for tresspassing and harrassing phone calls, which got dismissed, because of contrary evidence. She was actually guilty of that. The police officers got really familiar with her, very quickly.

There was a time when I wanted her arrested, after she took a 4 cell maglight, and hit me so hard in the face that the checked texture of the handle of the flashlight was still visible in my cheek an hour later. The police didnt do a thing. I had a swollen cheek, thinking at the time was fractured, and a visible imprint of the flashlight. Nothing, they did nothing.

After we split, she got married 3 months later. The first sherriff call on that relationship came on the night of the wedding. He was arrested 3 times in less than a year, causing him to lose his Coast Guard career of 19 years. Her first husband was arrested several times on domestic abuse, and there have been other men arrested that were in her path as well. I have never even had an argument with a woman before, or since her.
Logged


notmyproblem

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 38


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 01:17:54 AM »

Although abuse is abuse and everyone deserves to be treated equally, the fact is that if you are a man it is an uphill climb, the system is set up to protect women from abusive men and the courts are more likely to side with women (or men that know HOW to play the victim role).

I have learned that since I am a woman, if I just act like I am stupid, keep my logical side hidden and just let everyone make assumptions, I have a chance, but the minute I try to play fair and be reasonable, I get totally screwed... our system is set up to reward complainers, manipulators and professional victims, we reward passive aggressive behavior and punish people who dare to be assertive.  

Recognizing that there are problems unique to male abuse does not diminish what is experienced in traditional abuse and it needs to be dealt with.

Logged
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 12:49:14 PM »

For our safety (and the children) what is the best course of action to take if our partner is becoming physical?

I think the key is to nip it in the bud - deal with it when it's "becoming physical" - don't wait til there has already been violence.

If you have reasons to be concerned about violence or false accusations, be ready.  An overnight bag in the trunk of your car;  your wallet and keys or purse handy;  and a good idea where you can spend the night if needed.  The idea is to be ready to walk out the door quickly and go somewhere for a few hours or overnight.

(This is more complicated if there are kids involved of course!)

You don't need to "win" the argument, or defend your turf.  You need to separate yourself from the person who might get physical or who might claim that you did.

Once there has been some violence, it's very hard to avoid some unpleasant fallout, even if nobody got hurt badly.  Much better to see it coming and take action to keep it from getting bad, and then figure out where to go from there.
Logged

Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8348


« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 01:13:20 PM »

If there ever is a time to have a values/boundary chat, it's when there is escalating arguments in a relationship.

Wait for an up time in the relationship and have a sit down about what you both value in a relationship.  Be sure it is a dialog, not a lecture.  Guide the discussion to the value of feeling safe and secure in you relationship/home - get some agreement on this.  Don't be accusatory - make it a "we" conversation - be patient.

Maybe a few days later - again wait for an uptime and make it a "we" conversation - open a discussion about how to protect the "safe and secure" value.  Talk about how things escalate, how to recognize it early, and how to take a time out.  Agree on what both need to do when it happens - make a plan together as much as you can. 

Be patient, be willing to let the discussion take place over multiple days - try to get as much by  in as possible.

Your partner may not be able to hold up their end of the deal when things get tight, but when you hold up your end, your actions will hopefully be understood as protecting the relationship, not attacking or manipulating the partner.

This will help more than you expect.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged

 
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 01:27:35 PM »

If there every is a time to have a values/boundary chat, it's when there is escalating arguments in a relationship.

Wait for an up time in the relationship and have a sit down about what you both value in a relationship.  Be sure it is a dialog, not a lecture... .

Skip, are you thinking this works well just one-on-one, with a partner who may have BPDish issues?

Or best with a third party, like a couples counselor?

I noticed that bad things usually happened within the first 60 seconds of getting home from work (or my wife getting home).  If we got through those 60 seconds OK, things would be OK the rest of the evening.  Never understood the why of that pattern, but noticing patterns like that might help... .
Logged

Unreal
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 01:41:59 PM »

I think a description of how police identify who to arrest in these situations would be very helpful.  My understanding is they are trained to identify a "primary aggressor". 

The primary aggressor is not the person that starts the fight, and is not the person that first uses physical violence.  Instead, they are trained to decide the primary aggressor is the person that used the strongest level of force.  So if your BPD partner gets physical, and you use force to stop them, usually when the guy is defending himself he uses more force than a female attacker.  It's the nature of things because the guy is bigger and stronger.  So the cops then identify him as the "primary aggressor" and arrest him.  Mostly, it's not the cops being anti-male.  It's just the way the law is written, so it's what they do. 

Understanding that, I think, is crucial to avoiding being arrested. 
Logged
mrbluesky
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: separated pending divorce
Posts: 254


WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 03:09:39 PM »

As a man, I find it extremely difficult to talk about physical abuse with anyone.  My wife included... .

I must say amen and thanks for having the guts to post that.  I could have written it but it wouldn't have sounded as eloquent.  All the same stuff in my case.  Its quite a stigma so we never say anything to anyone.  
Logged
robbanks123
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 795


« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 03:33:10 PM »

This is a really interesting thread. So many points have really helped me examine my own thinking  Thanks to everyone who participated, I found it helpful.  
Logged


Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 08:26:22 AM »

I think a description of how police identify who to arrest in these situations would be very helpful.  My understanding is they are trained to identify a "primary aggressor".  The primary aggressor is not the person that starts the fight, and is not the person that first uses physical violence.  Instead, they are trained to decide the primary aggressor is the person that used the strongest level of force.  So if your BPD partner gets physical, and you use force to stop them, usually when the guy is defending himself he uses more force than a female attacker.  It's the nature of things because the guy is bigger and stronger.  So the cops then identify him as the "primary aggressor" and arrest him.  Mostly, it's not the cops being anti-male.  It's just the way the law is written, so it's what they do.  Understanding that, I think, is crucial to avoiding being arrested.  

In my state - or at least in the county where I was arrested - standard procedure is to arrest the man, because they assume that if he is removed, the risk of someone getting hurt will be low.  (I'm not saying that's correct or that I agree with it, but it's what I was told.)

I've heard that even when the man calls the police, he is arrested more than three-quarters of the time;  they only arrest the woman if there is some big reason, like if it's super-clear that she hurt the man or if she acts really bad when the police are there.

I don't think the police usually focus too much on figuring everything out and placing the blame.  Their main focus is to prevent someone from getting hurt.  So if their procedure says they should arrest the man, that's what they'll do.  And then it's up to a judge from there.

Waddams, to your point - "Understanding that is crucial to avoid being arrested." - I think you're exactly right.  A man who is involved with a DVish situation - real or a false accusation - is at high risk to be arrested, no matter what really happened.

To avoid being arrested, a man should avoid being in a DVish situation - which I think is why Skip wrote, "... .if our partner is becoming physical" not "... .if our partner has already become physical."
Logged

JoannaK
DSA Recipient
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married to long-term 9-year partner (also a non)
Posts: 22837



« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 09:31:11 AM »

I would also add to men:  :)on't deal with the stress of an escalating situation by drinking or using drugs.  This is true for all, of course, but if the man appears out of control, he is going to be the one who is arrested.  Also, if he is drinking, he might do something stupid, even if not directly violent.  This could cause him to get tossed out on a restraining order.

My exh's situation is a case in point:  After I filed for divorce, we were still in the home together.  I had no grounds for any kind of d.v. charge or a restraining order.  But he was obviously very upset and he started drinking more heavily than he had been.  (Actually, he hadn't been drinking for several months before I filed.)  He would start to be all night berating me.  I would leave the house and drive around, hoping he would fall asleep.  On several occasions I came home to find out that he had accessed my computer and deleted stuff.  One time he deleted the operating system.  He was also throwing stuff around and, though he wasn't threatening me directly, on a few occasions he stood over me at very close range when he was obviously very angry.  

Because of the threatening posture, the drinking, and the destruction to property, I was able to get a restraining order and get him out of the house.
Logged

Mollyd
Distinguished Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1327

It's a strange game when the only move .... is not


« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 01:46:54 PM »

there is also the risk of false criminal arrests.  The well intended efforts to reduce 1,000-2,000 DV homicides and 500,000 DV hospital treated injuries has created a significant unintended outcome - a huge rise in false arrests.

I agree, and am glad there's strategies in this thread to begin to address that.  My perspective is that police depts. in my metro area, are much more aware of the false allegation thing toward men by violating women than they used to be. But, that hasn't prevented one of the men I worked with from being arrested and detained (recently).  I think going to the police ahead of time, as in reporting abuse happening to you, before the false allegation comes your way is wise, but most don't seem to do that.  

There's reasons we get ourselves in these relationships, and even more reasons that we stay after one experience of abuse.  I'm certainly not trying to blame any victim, only stating the real power we each have is preventative.

A final note - regarding the drinking/using thing.  It is statistically true that of the domestic violence incidents that land in the legal system, most of them occured when people were using drugs/alcohol.  Therefore, one effective strategy is not to hang around as your partner gets wasted, if you know they have a tendency toward violence.

Molly
Logged

Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8348


« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 10:38:08 AM »

I'm certainly not trying to blame any victim, only stating the real power we each have is preventative.

Don't keep this in the closet.

Studies of DV show it as a progression of escalating events. Knowing this is powerful as we can start looking at ways to avoid getting it to that stage as Molly says.  Derail the progression.

Visibility is a great tool. Get it in the open.

While a man's inclination might be to keep these things quiet, it is better to make it increasingly visible.  We might start with a joint meeting with the T or a clergy member (confidential) or a DV counselor. If things continue we can involve a brother, then maybe parents... .and if the progression continues, the courts or law enforcement.

Start early - increase visibility in a stepwise progression.

Before you call the police, do some basic homework, as Waddams and Matt imply.  Talk to the local DV people and/or a lawyer.  Remember, once the police make an arrest, they are not obligated to drop the case even if both parties say "forget it".  This is entirely the district attorney's call and they will often delay resolution (making it expensive) and/or seek a contingent (e.g., community service, fine, classwork) deferred adjudication - and sometimes they prosecute.
Logged

 
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 12:11:03 PM »

Before you call the police, do some basic homework, as Waddams and Matt imply.  Talk to the local DV people and/or a lawyer.  Remember, once the police make an arrest, they are not obligated to drop the case even if both parties say "forget it".  This is entirely the district attorney's call and they will often delay resolution (making it expensive) and/or seek a contingent (e.g., community service, fine, classwork) deferred adjudication - and sometimes they prosecute.

This is an important point, because there are some things we think we know - maybe because of TV! - that I found out the hard way just aren't true.

One is, "If I didn't break any laws then I have nothing to worry about."  Once the police are called, as has been discussed here, it's almost certain they will make an arrest, and that means criminal charges.  And once charges are filed, it can be hard to get them dropped, because the prosecutor (unlike on "Law And Order" is not paid to drop the charges, or even to find the truth - she's paid to get convictions, especially in DV cases.

So once you are arrested and charged with something, there will be a lot of pressure - maybe even from your own attorney - to take a plea agreement, which means admitting to something illegal.  It may take months and thousands of dollars to get the charges dropped, and if the prosecutor decides not to drop them, you'll go to trial.  And if the accuser takes the stand and says you did something wrong - and if she cries! - there is a high you could be convicted, even if the evidence isn't there.

And we might believe that the other party will "come to her senses" and tell the truth about what happened, or forgive us if we did something wrong.  But to the prosecutor, that's not relevant;  once you are charged with a crime, even if the "victim" says you didn't do it, the prosecutor will assume the accuser might be under pressure, so the charges probably won't be dropped anyway.  Remember, the charges are filed by the police, not the accuser, and moved forward by the prosecutor.  So the idea that the accuser might "drop the charges" isn't how things really work - only the prosecutor or the judge can do that, and it's not likely.

All of which makes it super-important to avoid being charged in the first place... .which means you need to avoid the DVish situation in the first place... .
Logged

Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8348


« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2009, 12:59:55 PM »

I have learned that since I am a woman, if I just act like I am stupid, keep my logical side hidden and just let everyone make assumptions, I have a chance, but the minute I try to play fair and be reasonable, I get totally screwed... our system is set up to reward complainers, manipulators and professional victims, we reward passive aggressive behavior and punish people who dare to be assertive. 

It's important to know when we are situationally at risk for false DV reporting by an SO - and the time of greatest risk is when our partner decides to end the relationship.  25% of all divorces include claims of domestic abuse.
 
Why?
 
Restraining orders are great tools for women to use as they have profound benefits and little risk. They:
 
  • Require the man to immediately vacate the house.
  • Prohibit the man from communicating with children.
  • Bar the man who works in the military or law enforcement from carrying a weapon, may result in loss of a security clearance, thus harming the person’s career opportunities.
  • Impose substantial legal defense costs.

I'm not suggesting that there are not many cases where a women is justified and needs the protection of a restraining order.  There are.  What I am saying is that this tool is abused.
 
An estimated 2-3 million restraining orders are issued each year and it is estimated that about 60% are unnecessary or false.  In most cases, a judge issues a temporary order to the “petitioner” (or “claimant”) on an emergency ex parte basis. As a result, the accused (the “respondent”), unaware that the charge has been made, is not afforded the opportunity to contest or refute the accusations. The effect on the unsuspecting partner has been described by the Rutgers Law Review this way: “In ten days, the hypothetical husband has gone from having a normal life with a wife, children and home to being a social pariah, homeless, poor, and alone, trapped in a nightmare.” 
 
Restraining orders are easy to obtain because state laws now define domestic violence broadly, judges seldom require proof of abuse, and statutes invoke a “preponderance of evidence” standard.
 
False allegations are seen in both criminal and civil law cases.
 
Under criminal law, about one million persons are arrested each year for intimate partner violence. But only 33% of arrests for domestic violence result in a conviction, revealing that many persons are being wrongfully accused and incarcerated.
 
Under civil law, false allegations are even more widespread. One analysis of restraining orders concluded 80% were unnecessary or false.  Indeed, physical violence was not even alleged in half of all petitions for restraining orders, according to a Massachusetts Trial Court study.
 
So be warned - if the relationship is coming to an end and there is property or kids involved, you need to be proactive and prepared for this.  And be sure not to set yourself up in the waning days of the relationship.
 
Data Source: Stop Abusive and Violent Environment, Rockville, MD 20849
Logged

 
PDQuick
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Happily living with myself
Posts: 2828


Don't look outside for the answers within.


« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2009, 06:31:23 AM »

If you are in a physically violent situation with a woman, and she is abusing you (or you are abusing her), get out of it now, because nothing good will come of it, and you might just find yourself downtown for a 2 day hiatus, getting 3 hots and a cot.

The truth of the matter is this. Men have a vastly higher potential to inflict physical harm upon women without weapons. Bring weapons into the mix, men are actually more able and willing to use them than women. It is fact. Men are more violent than women because of a substance called testosterone. It is wired into us.

Yes, there are women out there that will harm a man. The percentages are small as compared to men. The hard truth is, if you were assaulted more than once by a woman, you gave up the right to btch about it because you went back. You aren't the victim anymore, but a willing participant in the situation. Men have this mental image that they can handle anything a woman throws at them regarding physical altercations. That maybe true, and in my case it was, but, if I have a woman that is violent, and I think I can handle it, do I really expect my opinions toward her actions to be validated because she blows up again?

The divide is two fold. Women aren't as aggressive as men, and when they are, men can usually handle the abuse handed out. I realize this isnt true in all cases, but in most they are. But, when a man decides to use physical violence towards a woman, he usually can overpower her, and harm her significantly. That is why the laws are so stringent towards men.

All of the information for battered women suggest that they leave the situation immediately, and never return. Change all the he's to she's and all the his's to hers's and read it guys.  
Logged


hopethereishope
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 205


« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2009, 07:13:16 AM »

We allow the violence and hurt if we do not recognise it for what it is... .
Logged
PDQuick
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Happily living with myself
Posts: 2828


Don't look outside for the answers within.


« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2009, 07:23:36 AM »

One thing is sure, if you are in a violent situation, you dont have enough self respect to remove yourself after the first occurance. I mean really, are we that deprived in life that we actually settle for a person that abuses us? Is this really what we have to accept? The answer is a resounding no, but in our minds at the time, we dont want to let it go, for fear of never loving again. Looking back, I was the dumbest man on the planet at the time. Fear of the unknown and future is more powerful than the fear I currently sit in? Puhleeze.
Logged


Unreal
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2009, 07:49:14 AM »

One thing is sure, if you are in a violent situation, you dont have enough self respect to remove yourself after the first occurance. I mean really, are we that deprived in life that we actually settle for a person that abuses us? Is this really what we have to accept? The answer is a resounding no, but in our minds at the time, we dont want to let it go, for fear of never loving again. Looking back, I was the dumbest man on the planet at the time. Fear of the unknown and future is more powerful than the fear I currently sit in? Puhleeze.

Yes, but was that really the thought process?  Fear of never loving again?  I know I had those thoughts once I decided it was over.  However, through much of the relationship, I think my awareness level was low.  I'm not sure how best to explain this.  I didn't consider leaving.  I didn't think, I bet I could find someone better and I didn't think, I bet no one else would take me.  I think for a long time I tried to ignore it.  I had so many other things going on (graduate school, music, reading novels, etc. . .).  I had already made the decision to marry her.  I didn't know anyone who had gone through a divorce.  Though my ex-wife often threatened me with divorce (over dishes, bathroom cleanliness, looking at her funny, breathing, etc. . .), I didn't consider that because we were married and divorce wasn't an option that was in my response considerations.  So, I think what I did is a form of dissociation.  I kind of endured the nonsense, and then went on about my business.  I remember thinking of her as two different people, good exwife and bad exwife.  I saw the good exwife as the real her, and because of that, I actually thought of our marriage as a good one for, probably most of it.  I saw the bad exwife as the product of various stressors and my own misbehavior.  I was optimistic that once things became more settled that it would get better.  More settled to me was a full-time job (we were both graduate students), a house, and money.  So, it was sort of a deferred happiness allotment I had created.  As in, things aren't the greatest now, we argue a lot, she's unreasonable, but that's understandable afterall we're dealing with being poor (lived in a converted hotel at one point. . . given that both of us came from upper middle class backgrounds, this was a substantial change in lifestyle. . . felt like a waystation not life) and being graduate students.  However, that conceptualization was very, very wrong.  People here have talked about physical violence once or a few times, or seven times.  I can't count the number of times I was physically attacked.  It numbers in the 100s.  The number of times I've been called various vulgarities numbers in the 1000s.  And, as Matt stated, I wouldn't have traded all of that for one call to the police and a false accusation.  

I have a friend who goes through similar issues.  He's a very successful, works hard, alpha man's man type of guy.  His wife has called the cops on him.  But, the dude knows how to talk.  The cops go away.  Nothing happens.  He feels invincible, I think.  But, I digress.  I see similar excuses.  "Wife has a reason to be angry with me.  I was a jerk.  I said I would pick up the detergent and I didn't," or "Wife has a reason to be stressed out.  She's been dealing with a lot crap lately," etc. . . Excusing and rationalizing the behavior.  That's what I did.  It wasn't a thought process of I deserve to be abused or I can't find anything better.  It was something different.  And, insidious.  A wrong cognitive set.  Too much benefit of the doubt.  Too much empathy.  Too little awareness.  Too little understanding of the big picture.  Shame.        
Logged


PDQuick
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Happily living with myself
Posts: 2828


Don't look outside for the answers within.


« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2009, 08:04:59 AM »

So, I think what I did is a form of dissociation.  I kind of endured the nonsense, and then went on about my business.  I remember thinking of her as two different people, good exwife and bad exwife.  I saw the good exwife as the real her, and because of that, I actually thought of our marriage as a good one for, probably most of it.  I saw the bad exwife as the product of various stressors and my own misbehavior.  I was optimistic that once things became more settled that it would get better. 

This is our own, ignorant, twisted thinking at play, and part of the reason we endured what we did. I was guilty of it as well. I thought of her as two people also, and thought I could control, or manipulate the situation (via money, house, horses, giving her everything she ever wanted including my soul) to keep the bad person in the wings, and the good person on the stage. Shame on me, you are right.

I have learned that people are vast, and very complicated, and I now accept them as they are, not what I want them to be. I dont 'split" them into two people, the good and the bad, I just see them as one, and take them as they show me, good, and bad. If the bad doesnt fit in my life, I must let go of the good, to get rid of the bad.

I know now that I cant control people, but I am very aware that my actions bring about reactions with people. I can control those, and I do. The biggest thing is that I now realize that I am worth what I command, and I will not settle for a half rotten hamburger, just because I am hungry. There are lines in my life that if you cross, I will revoke your ticket into my life. Violence is one of those lines. Even violence towards others, because if you do it to another, I am not so stupid to think that you wont turn that and focus it on me one day. My ignorance is gone, and it is my responsibility to myself to see the past, learn from it, and apply the lessons to the future.

If I hadnt been falsely accused of DV and jailed, I wouldnt have this opinion or epiphany. I am actually glad for it, because I learned a valuable lesson from it. I saw her lie about others, and have them arrested, so why noy me next? Duh!
Logged


Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2009, 11:45:23 AM »

One thing is sure, if you are in a violent situation, you dont have enough self respect to remove yourself after the first occurance. I mean really, are we that deprived in life that we actually settle for a person that abuses us? Is this really what we have to accept? The answer is a resounding no, but in our minds at the time, we dont want to let it go, for fear of never loving again. Looking back, I was the dumbest man on the planet at the time. Fear of the unknown and future is more powerful than the fear I currently sit in? Puhleeze.

I'm sure this is exactly the case for many - maybe most - of us who stayed in an abusive situation.  There is another big issue:  If there are kids involved, and you believe (as I do) that kids do much better with at least one stable parent in the home, and that boys especially need a dad, then you're between a rock and a hard place.  Not saying that you don't have options, but there may be no really good options if the other party is not willing to change.  So you do the best you can, try to manage the situation, and hope for the best.  In my case, I changed that philosophy in jail.  If it hadn't got to that point I might still be in the relationship.
Logged

TCarlisle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1775


« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2009, 03:56:39 PM »

If it looks like the relationship is over, it might be good to go on the offensive and file a civil complaint... .

My own experience... .first let me go over "the system" as it applies to me. I live in a state that I would say is "somewhat" modernized on current DV issues. My observation is that the right laws are in place, and although those laws were first put in place in a sexually biased manner (favoring women), the state has done a good job updating the laws to make them non gender biased.

In my state, civil DV cases are heard in Superior court in the county where the offense took place. Civil DV cases are things like restraining orders. You go to the court house and report an individual has committed DV against you and you are in risk of being victimized again and request legal protection. They hear your complaint, and verify that your story does constitute DV under state law, and that the circumstances (such as that you co-reside) are such that you are likely to be abused again, and if so they issue a temporary restraining order (TRO). This is called an ex-parte hearing, because the person you are accusing is not present, doesn't know it is happening, and doesn't get to tell their "side". Some states issue an RO on an ex-parte basis, some don't.

When you are granted the TRO, it is NOT a finding by the court that the person did what you allege. It is simply the court acknowledging that the circumstances are dire enough that IF you are telling the truth you deserve protection, and the court provides that protection for a short period of time until another hearing where the court hears both sides and makes a finding to either dismiss the TRO or make it final/permanent or whatever your state calls it.

When a TRO is issued, the alleged abuser is served with the order by the police. The order typically is such that the alleged abuser has to leave the residence, cannot come back, cannot contact the alleged victim, etc. A temp custody order is included giving the alleged victim custody.

When the TRO is made final, the provisions of the order that the abuser can't come back to the home, can't contact the victim, etc are preserved, but the custody order is typically changed to a temporary order of joint-legal. Also, although the RO gets the abusive spouse out of the home physically, it does NOT handle the issue of legal ownership of the real property. The abusive spouse still has whatever ownership they have until a divorce case settles that.

But the net affect is that by leveraging the civil law system, a victim of DV can get an abusive spouse out of the house. And in my state and my experience, the civil system does this in a non-gender biased manner. The Superior court tossed my wife right out of the house on her ear, and finalized it. And through the whole process I was never made to feel like the deck was stacked against me.

Now, contrast that to what happens at the municipal level of my same state, and at the law enforcement level. There are a couple of "systemic issues" at play that explain the difference I am about to describe. First, DV is a pretty new set of "Crimes" and the idea of DV being a crime against a man is a fairly new idea in the legal/law enforcement world. Second, the municipal judges and police seem to be stuck in the "old school" thought of woman = victim, man = abuser. Because for most of their career that formula proved to be true.

The situation I describe above of the civil system that was painless and made me proud of the legal system, was how I finally found a way "out" of my situation. But it wasn't my first attempt. My first attempts to get some sort of legal relief was by dialing 911 while my wife was in the process of raging, after she had kicked, slapped, scratched me, etc. I couldn't just walk out for my own safety and leave this raving lunatic with a 1 year old child, so calling 911 seems like the right thing to do.

Oh my, no. Just like so many men's stories, the police came and arrested me. A woman police officer, if it matters. They arrested both of us. That is their modus operandi. Neither of us were direly injured, only I had marks, and they were just light scratches and red patches. Very vague and not "convincingly" signs of assault. So it was my word against her. I told what she did, and they went to place her under arrest based on my verbal complaint. Then she said I did some stuff, which got me arrested to, and we both walked out with mutual charges for assaulting the other.

When you report DV and the police respond, they determine if probable cause exists that a crime has occurred, and in the case of DV the err very much on the side of caution and write a criminal complaint. Basically, if someone says you so much as breathed to close to them, the cops write a criminal DV complaint and issue a summons. That is there MO. And when both spouses are cross complaining, they arrest and issue summons to both, and let the court figure it out. I know this, because after 3 years and several of these types of incidents, they actually told me this.

When you report DV, the cops also explain to you your rights to seek a civil restraining order (that is the peachy process I discussed first -- the "good deal". If they determined probable cause existed to support your allegations and issued an arrest against the alleged victim, they tell you that you can request an RO right now and they will help you. If they don't determine probable cause and therefore no arrest, they still explain you have a right to go to the county courthouse and request a civil RO (the "good deal".

For me, for some reason, even though they explain it to me, it never sunk in to me the simple fact that I was going through the wrong system. The local police system is there to keep people from killing each other, and they are good at that. They are not there to handle a wife that physically abuses her husband in a non-life threatening manner, and they are not good at that. That is just how it is.

So getting back to the incident where we both got arrested and charged, neither of us requested a TRO on that incident, so at that point in time I didn't know how the municipal court would work. Fast forward to another instance about a year later, same basic situation except this time I have a big bite mark on my upper tricep supporting my claim of simple assault, and she was arrested for that. But she alleged I pushed her, so guess what? Arrested and charged.

This time when they asked if I wanted an RO, I said yes. So they draw up the paperwork on that. In the meantime, in the next room they are now explaining to her that I am requesting an RO... .oh, and by the way do you want to request one too? Of course she says yes in order to level the playing field.

So now, both arrested, both asking for RO's, and it is on a weekend and court is closed, so by state law the municipal judge makes the call. I know now, but didn't know then, that also under state law, the municipal judge is supposed to swear in both parties on the phone, hear them both, and decide. But guess what? That didn't happen. I wasn't heard at all. Even though there was physical evidence to support my allegation, and in her statement to the police she admitted having bitten me, I lost and got a TRO against me, out of the house, etc.

I can quote the state law, handed down from the supreme court of my state, that was violated by the police and/or judge in handling this after-hours cross TRO request. But it doesn't matter. When you are just a person and not a lawyer or haven't researched it, you don't know and you are at the mercy of the people that administer the system.

I will never know if the municipal court judge broke process or if it was the police. I really doubt it was the judge, and suspect that the police "failed" to tell him that I was requesting an RO also and that I had evidence of assault to me, etc. Or maybe they did and the judge didn't feel like hitting pause on his Tivo and just followed the formula he has used ever since DV laws came into existence early in his career -- get the man out of the house.

So, I protested with the police on the decision, and they basically said I would have to take it up in family court tomorrow during duty hours. So I went to court the next day, and I got my TRO against her. But, it didn't "reverse" her TRO and get me back in the house, and her out. Apparently the first person that gets the RO gets that... .

So, after a few times trying to get some assistance from "the system", and only getting hurt in the process, one day it hit me. Well, actually she did DV again, and as she did that at 10:30pm I was just completely lost as to what to do. If I go to the police, I know how that movie ends. I went to the police to talk to them. I actually asked to just talk to someone off the record, not making complaints. And they did. The basically told me I was right. If they are called to respond, we are both getting arrested, etc and the whole sequence plays out again. They said my matter was a civil matter, not a criminal matter, and said I need to "just get a divorce, man".

And do what? Live with her as the divorce plays out? I had no where to go. My closest relatives were 8 hours away, and to seek refuge there I would have had to quite my job. And I couldn't take the kids, so I was leaving the kids with the monster. It wasn't fair!

So the next day, I got the idea... .the court is open today. I go down to court and get a TRO. She doesn't know I am doing it, she gets blind-sided and doesn't have the opportunity to make up a story. So that is what I did, and that is where "the good deal" explained above starts. It was all good from there. Good because family court knows how to handle this type of stuff, it is completely out of the hands of the local police and municipal judge, and on top of it all it has the element of surprise! Unlike all the other criminal complaints where the BP knew they were coming and was able to bake up a story quickly to level the playing field, in this instance the BP was taken completely by surprise and lost the element of timing to effectively make any cross complaint.

So I got the BP out the house by order of the court. That is all I ever wanted. She had 8 relatives all living within 20 minutes of our house, and had plenty of places to go. I had no where. Leaving meant losing my job. I never wanted her jailed, I just wanted her gone. Civil court is where you can get that done, not criminal court.

Now, my advice to any male victim of DV is simply this -- if your life is in danger, of course call 911. That is rarely the case though, right? Otherwise, just bear it and wait until the next morning and report to family court and request the RO. If you call the police, there is a very strong chance you will get charged. That is just how it works.

But if you go to family court, and even if they deny it, you still walk out a free man. And in my state, they don;t notify the person you accused, so there is no risk of recourse. On the other hand, when you tell the cops, they tell her, and right there she enters self-preservation mode and starts lying up a story to get you charged.

And if family court issues a TRO, she is served, so she does find out. But then it is too late. You already got the first TRO, so even if she gets one too by saying "well yesterday he hit me" it doesn't matter. The person with the first TRO gets the upper hand. when the final hearing comes, you will show that the timing of her allegations show them to be retaliatory, so she won't win a final RO.

Lastly, once you get the TRO, commit to making it final. If you don't, you screw yourself in many ways. Basically, you can show up at the final hearing and tell the judge you opt to dismiss. This usually happens because the BP re-engagements the person back. If you do this, several things happen. First, the BP will abuse you again, so you didn't solve anything you just delayed your fate. Second, the BP know by virtue of being at the receiving end of this "good deal" system, will now know how to prevent you from ever using it again. Or worse, the BP will realize how to use the same system to royally screw you over.

This is a dangerous weapon, and when you decide to aim it at the BP you better be prepared to follow through, otherwise in the future the BP will turn that same weapon on you.  Anyone that took the time to read this certainly can see how a BP that is "in the know" on all this process could really screw over a non. Don't let that be you.
Logged
TCarlisle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1775


« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2009, 01:53:43 PM »

I failed to mention the most compelling difference between civil and criminal -- the burden of proof is much lower for civil cases.

When a spouse assaults the other spouse, if the police are called, that is going down the "criminal law path". The officer determines if probable cause exists for criminal charges,. and if so writes the criminal complaint and/or arrests the alleged offender. The probable cause means the officer has collected evidence to support a court finding guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The officer may respond and determine probable cause does not exist for proof beyond reasonable doubt.

When a spouse assaults the other spouse, and teh victim goes to civil court (family court), the burden of proof is merely "by preponderance of the evidence". This simply means once all evidence is presented, testimony given, etc. the judge determines if it is more likely that assault took place, then the judge finds that assault took place.

This is important, because under criminal law the police may find that there is not probable cause to arrest, but that does not mean there is no chance in civil court to get relief (restraining order, etc). In criminal court, circumstantial evidence is fine.
Logged
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 02:14:40 PM »

Not to get into the fine points - and I'm no lawyer - but in my state (AZ) one thing you said is different:  Probable cause is a very, very low standard - nowhere near proof beyond reasonable doubt.  Basically you can be arrested - and probably will be - just because there is a complaint, even if (as in my case) the officers gathered enough evidence to be sure the complaint wasn't true.

The reason is that they are supposed to end the situation so no further harm is done.  If they don't make an arrest, and somebody gets hurt, they can be blamed.  So they make an arrest (in my case they arrested us both) to make sure nobody gets hurt at that time.  When you are released (in my case after a night in jail) there are "conditions of release" which can keep you away from the other party til the case is settled - not an Order Of Protection or Restraining Order but it works almost the same.  All to minimize risk that someone will be hurt.

I'm not disputing the idea that the civil approach may be much better, at least in some states.  I'm just pointing out that to be arrested in AZ does not require "proof beyond reasonable doubt" - quite the contrary.  (But I don't know if the police would act the same way if the man made the complaint.)

Matt
Logged

shefiled
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 24Yrs, slowly beginning divorce
Posts: 63


« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2009, 11:48:19 PM »

I am so thankful that I understand BPD.  Living with a BPD spouse, I very much understand how domestic violence could occur. The BPD's expertise in hurting you to the core, their irrational accusations and their willingness to escalate an argument to limitless levels can cause anyone to claim temporay insanity as a vaild defense for losing their cool with a BPD. Being well educated about BPD makes such a huge difference. We all have an obligation to enlighten others who might be "walking on eggshells" in order to manage the emotional terrorism of BPD. I'm hoping that people involved in managing domestic violence are being well educated on BPD so that they can properly help people on either side of the DV problem. I feel Randi Kreger's "Family Survival Guide" is a must-read for all professionals in the family court system.
Logged
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4331



« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2013, 04:01:54 PM »

All of which makes it super-important to avoid being charged in the first place... .  which means you need to avoid the DVish situation in the first place... .  

This could be gender-less.  And it seems, aside from the functional things like communication (SET, Validation... .  ) before it gets to this point, is also about learning how to deal with the emotional part of being in a relationship like this in a more "healthful" way personally.

For our safety (and the children) what is the best course of action to take if our parter is becoming physical?  What are things we want to be sure to avoid?

Addressing issues with a therapist or counselor,  like the lack of value based-boundaries, codependency, fears, choices etc, that are perpetuating the cycle of violence seems like a good place to start individually.
Logged

martillo
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 28 yrs; staying for now
Posts: 172



« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2013, 04:13:01 PM »

For our safety (and the children) what is the best course of action to take if our partner is becoming physical?

If you have reasons to be concerned about violence or false accusations, be ready.  An overnight bag in the trunk of your car;  your wallet and keys or purse handy;  and a good idea where you can spend the night if needed.  The idea is to be ready to walk out the door quickly and go somewhere for a few hours or overnight.

(This is more complicated if there are kids involved of course!)

availability and use of a voice or video recording device
Logged
GreenMango
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4331



« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2013, 01:21:18 PM »

There are probono legal aid resources for victims of dv.  I don't know how much of it is available for men.  But of you can't afford representation it doesn't hurt to ask the dv shelter or community center for resource.

www.probono.net/dv/

Logged

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Links and Information
CLINICAL INFORMATION
The Big Picture
5 Dimensions of Personality
BPD? How can I know?
Get Someone into Therapy
Treatment of BPD
Full Clinical Definition
Top 50 Questions

EDITORIAL DEPARTMENTS
My Child has BPD
My Parent/Sibling has BPD
My Significant Other has BPD
Recovering a Breakup
My Failing Romance
Endorsed Books
Archived Articles

RELATIONSHIP TOOLS
How to Stop Reacting
Ending Cycle of Conflict
Listen with Empathy
Don't Be Invalidating
Values and Boundaries
On-Line CBT Program
>> More Tools

MESSAGEBOARD GENERAL
Membership Eligibility
Messageboard Guidelines
Directory
Suicidal Ideation
Domestic Violence
ABOUT US
Mission
Policy and Disclaimers
Professional Endorsements
Wikipedia
Facebook

BPDFamily.org

Your Account
Settings

Moderation Appeal
Become a Sponsor
Sponsorship Account


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!