She says she's giving up on me and D2

[zaqsert]

This is my need to vent (and a very long vent at that!), since I can do so safely here, and I'm not sure what advice to ask for.

My uBPDw, our D2, and I took a long-weekend vacation this past week and weekend.  We generally had a good time.  D2 loved it.

Once or twice a day my wife would throw in a remark that felt like she either couldn't stand me or despised me.  They were not direct, so I chose to ignore them.  My wife had D2 sit next to her for most meals, but otherwise I spent more of the time walking with, caring for, or keeping our D2 entertained.  When we would get back to the hotel, my wife would almost immediately start browsing online or read a book, again leaving me to D2.  (I love my time with D2.  It's just that this behavior is consistent even at home.)  Most families would not put up with a lot of these things, but aside from that, things were pretty good.

On our last day, my wife went through several small dysregulations.  She was visibly angry at me from right after we got off the plane, although I still do not know what triggered that.

Then we got home.  She put her feet up to watch TV.  I got D2 ready for bed.  My wife joined part way through the process.  At one point, I left the room to go get something.  When I came back, my wife was leaving the room and said "She's all yours, she told me to leave."  I asked "Literally?"  She said "Yes" and kept walking.  I went into D2's room.  Less than a minute later, my wife yells out that it would have been nice if I had said something, and that she would always say something if D2 were rude to me.  Then she slammed the door.

I did say something to D2.  But I did it in my way, quietly, and my wife did not to hear any of it.  I did happen to bring it up after my wife stormed off, but that was my choice of timing, and I comfortably stick by it.  And from having witnessed many of these interactions in the past, I can't really say whether D2 asked her to leave, or my wife offered it up to D2 (baiting, actually) and D2 simply said yes.

After I had D2 in bed, I went to check on my wife.  Non judgmentally, I acknowledged that it felt really crappy, asked what happened, and offered to talk.  She did not want to talk.  I told her I love her, I'm here whenever we can talk, and left her alone as she requested.  I did not try to discuss it (in the past even stating that I did say something to D2 would likely set my wife off, as it probably invalidates her perception of reality).  Maybe I should have mentioned it.  But in the past saying something about it was as good as JADEing.

Last night and this morning she said she does not want to take D2 to preschool.  When she confirmed it again in the morning, I got D2 ready and took her.  On our way out, I took D2 to say bye to mommy, and my wife was stone cold towards D2, barely looking at her, and not even offering a hug.

I checked in on my wife periodically today.  She did not want to talk, so I told her again that I love her and left her alone as requested.

On the last time, she said we should put D2 in preschool all 5 days a week.  I said ok and asked if she would check with the school on space availability.  Soon after, she let out her anger, saying she blames me for all of our daughter's lack of discipline (she's actually pretty good for a 2 year old), that I let her get away with anything (I am not quite as strict as my wife and try to resort to anger as rarely as possible, but I am quite firm with boundaries on what is acceptable), that she's "had it" with us, that she does not want to take care of D2 anymore, and then went back to more blaming.

I started trying to validate.  But when it shifted so clearly to blame and accusations, I tried to state that I see she feels that I don't care about her, that I do want to talk about her feelings and wants, that I can't deal with this right now, and that I want to pick it up again when things are calm.  I could barely fit a word in edgewise.  In fact, I had to restart and gradually get through it because she kept interrupting me with accusations.  In the end, I did get it all out, told her I love her, and left.

I don't know what of all this she will follow through on.  She normally doesn't.  I don't know how long this phase will last.  Recently, after I've been using the tools I learned here, episodes tend not to last more than hours to maybe a day or so.  But when she's gone this far, in the past it has lasted up to weeks or months.

But this time:

• I feel much more confident in that I am doing what is best for my D2.
  
  



• 
  
  I feel I handled myself better with my wife.  Perhaps I should have stopped the snide remarks on vacation, gotten her more involved in my talk with D2 after she apparently asked my wife to leave, handled interactions with my wife better last night and today, and walked away from the accusations sooner.  But overall, I feel I did reasonably well in those particular situations.
  
  



• 
  
  I feel confident in that if I am to blame for any of my daughter's behaviors, it is for a very small portion of it.  I feel my wife largely brings it on herself because of the way she interacts with D2.  And it really doesn't help that a 2 year-old can be very invalidating, and this really sets off my wife.
  
  



• 
  
  I feel a lot more comfortable in that most of this is my wife's "stuff", not mine, and I can't make her feel any different and I can't "fix" it for her.
  
  



• 
  
  For the first time I feel that regardless of what my wife chooses to do, I can't make her do anything (they are her choices to make), and I will figure out how to be ok.
  
  



• 
  
  Whatever she chooses to do, only time will tell.  Meanwhile, I know I need to take care of myself and my D2 (which of course is a whole area of dysregulation triggering!).
  
  



• 
  
  But, all that said, it still sucks and feels pretty bad.  I feel that knot in my stomach, and although I should be focusing on a lot of work that I need to get done, I am quite distracted today. 
  
  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[united for now]

You did good.

Change does feel uncomfortable at first. Your old unhealthy habits are pushing on you.

How do you think this impacts your D?

[briefcase]

Well done!  This is what we mean when we say this work isn't easy.  And it's not easy.  It's disruptive and triggering for our spouses.  Stay strong and remain consistent.  You are doing what is right for you, your daughter, and even your wife (although she doesn't see it that way).

Keep us updated.

[motherof1yearold]

I don't know how this hasn't been pointed out already, but your wife was dealing with some rejection from you guys' daughter. Causing her to withdraw, and say she doesn't want to take part anymore with her.

[Mono No Aware]

But, all that said, it still sucks and feels pretty bad.  I feel that knot in my stomach, and although I should be focusing on a lot of work that I need to get done, I am quite distracted today. 

Hang in there man. She's not getting any better but I think you are not making it worse. Keep up the good work, although no good deed goes unpunished in our world. You gotta find some music or a long walk or something to recharge your drained emotional batteries.

FWIW, I am in a similiar situation but a few years down the road. My 8 year old son avoids Mommy when she's "grumpy", and the rejection keeps the borderline cycle churning.

[zaqsert]

Many thanks to all of you.  It really helps to have some sane validation.

How do you think this impacts your D?

I worry that her mom's push/pull, inconsistent rules, invalidation, and frequent dysregulation will affect her.  I try to be as supportive, validating, consistent, and stable as possible for her so that at least she has one such parent.  I give her hugs and tell her I love her very often.  She has gotten quite snuggly.  My wife claims that she is not, but I think it's just that my wife rarely goes for hugs.

I feel that at some level it is working.  She has had far fewer and shorter tantrums and seems to come to me more when her mom is dysregulated.  She also recently started talking about how she felt while doing some things (e.g., happy, scared, mad).

I don't know how this hasn't been pointed out already, but your wife was dealing with some rejection from you guys' daughter. Causing her to withdraw, and say she doesn't want to take part anymore with her.

I'm sure you're right.

I told my wife that I can't pick up D2 from preschool because I have to work.  She reluctantly agreed to pick her up.  They sounded like they had at least an ok time at home after school.  So maybe my wife has un-split my daughter, but I'm still split black.

Hang in there man. She's not getting any better but I think you are not making it worse. Keep up the good work, although no good deed goes unpunished in our world. You gotta find some music or a long walk or something to recharge your drained emotional batteries.

Thanks.  I do need to keep recharging.

[zaqsert]

You are doing what is right for [... . ]  even your wife (although she doesn't see it that way).

I suppose it helps to remember this too.

Keep us updated.

Will do.

[george2]

Very well done.  I only wish I had the strength you exhibit.  I see many similarities in what I am going through with my dBPDW and our d3.  It is a constant balance between meeting the needs of d3 and then paying the price for being so close to d3 or vice versa... . your post has inspired me to brush up on the tools again, it has been quite a while since I have posted.  Again, congratulations on your strength and bravery!

[zaqsert]

Thanks.  Not that long ago I was right where you seem to be and remember it well.  Of the things that really helped me, the main ones that come to mind have been:

Some understanding of BPD, probably because I tend to be a logical thinker (although strong emotions can certainly get in the way).  The books SWOE and Loving Someone with BPD, and this website were extremely helpful.

Practicing and internalizing the lessons and tools available here.

Great support from wonderful people here.

Using the lessons and tools one situation at a time.  Put one foot in front of the other, as slowly as you need to.  Next thing you know, at some point you look back and realize that you're walking.  Then at some point you notice that you walked right through an episode and came out the other side alive.

It's a good cycle that has gradually helped me build up my confidence.  As has happened to me quite a few times in therapy, I often do not realize that I have really made a change until after the fact, when I see that I actually did it.

As united for now, briefcase, and others have pointed out, it's not easy and it will be uncomfortable.

To start doing all this, I also needed a strong motivator.  My motivators were realizing that I had become very ineffective at work (and realistically worried that I could lose my job) and seeing the negative effects that my wife's behavior and our home environment were having on D2.

D2 seems to be doing better.  It's amazing how my lack of confidence at home carried through to practically every other aspect of my life (I guess I can't split as well as my uBPDw can).  Recently I've noticed my confidence at work going back up too, which helps me do a better job.

Wishing you all the best.  Focus on your health and your needs.  Try the lessons and tools bit by bit.  And post here as often as you want.

[shatra]

Hi

Maybe she was jealous of the attention your kid got? ALso, did the vacation itself trigger this (a change, a loss of stable routine?)

Shatra

[zaqsert]

Maybe she was jealous of the attention your kid got? ALso, did the vacation itself trigger this (a change, a loss of stable routine?)

Probably both.

[zaqsert]

After a couple of weeks, I'm just following up on this thread with a nice little note on my D2 and (here comes the self-serving part) a little pat on the back for myself (at least I think so). 

I started this thread after our D2 told her mom / my wife that she wanted mom to leave her room when we were putting D2 in bed.  I had left the room to go get something, and they both knew that I was about to come back within a few seconds.  My wife dysregulated, split our DD black, left the room, slammed the door to our room, then promptly followed up splitting me black too.

Fast forward to two weeks later.  We're putting our DD in bed (well, actually, I do most of the routine with DD because my wife just wants to watch TV instead, and she joins towards the end).  Practically at the end of the routine, DD calmly says she wants me to go and mommy to stay.  I asked for confirmation to make sure I was getting it right.  She confirmed.  I said ok, gave her some kisses, told her I love her, wished her goodnight and sweet dreams, and walked out.

Seconds after I leave the room, DD says she wants daddy to come back.  So I do.  I smile and say "Oh, I thought you wanted me to leave, I'm happy to come back!"  DD smiled, sort of a comfortable smile, not at all a devious one.  She sat up in bed, and gave me a huge hug. 

It felt as though she was testing, just to see what the response would be.

As to my wife saying that she is giving up on me and our D2, that rhetoric ended within several days, and things are mostly back to the way they were before.

[waverider]

As to my wife saying that she is giving up on me and our D2, that rhetoric ended within several days, and things are mostly back to the way they were before.

This is a good example of when you stay calm and apply consistent and reasonable measures, rather than being reactionary, the push back response usually settles fairly quickly and all the bluff and bluster fades away.

As you see this more often the threats bother you less, and become just obviously disordered behavior that is no big deal at the end of the day.

We would all love our partners to be "cured", but for most that wont happen but it is still possible to manage it to a level where you can still have a happy life.

All good work

[zaqsert]

Thanks, Waverider!

It is starting to feel more comfortable to "stay calm and apply consistent and reasonable measures".  And this feels good.

BTW, I'm starting to think that your name here ("waverider" may be related to how you've learned to ride the waves with your pwBPD, rather than getting pummeled under them. 

[zaqsert]

Well, here we are, back from one more vacation, and my wife split my D2 and me black again.  This trip was with my family (FOO), which tends to be a trigger.  She was going to skip the trip altogether, but then one week before the trip she decided she wanted to go.

There were a few crises during the week.  This time, at least one or two people in my FOO caught wind of some craziness.  Then on our way back home, D2 was very tired and grumpy at one point and pushed my wife away.  She had done the same to me.  But my wife took it as "yet another sign" that D2 wants nothing to do with my wife.  My wife has been cold to D2 since then.

D2 actually tried to approach my wife and get close to her several times, but my wife claims that all of them were because of my prompting.  Only one was, and I admitted it.  All the rest were not, and I told her so, but she does not believe me.  I feel sad and angry for my D2 that her own mother does not trust her good intentions in these times.

One day after we got back, my wife ignores both D2 and me as much as possible.  At least she was civil in the morning.  By the afternoon, she's clearly angry at both of us.  I walked away from a conversation that was starting to go bad.

She then put a one-way flight on hold for herself to leave in a few days.  Who knows if she will follow through.

She says D2 wants nothing to do with her (not true in my opinion).  Says it's all my fault for consistently undermining her for the past 6-12 months.  I did a few things earlier this year, and after we discussed them I do believe I stopped, except in very few occasions where I felt the need to distract or deflect when my wife was really getting bad with D2.  Today she can't give me any specific examples of undermining.  I don't think they are there, but I realize that she believes what she is saying.

After the 1-hour time out that I gave myself, I checked back in with her.  I tried SET several times.  It started to escalate again, so I gave myself another time out.  She followed me and told me she is going to actively undermine me with D2 so I can "see how that feels".  I ignored her.  She came back a couple more times, so I closed the door.

Once again, I have no idea how long this will last.  If it's like last time, within a few days she will decide to try again with D2.  Eventually she will back off from splitting me completely black.  I understand that it is the nature of BPD, and there is nothing I can do about it other than control my own behavior and be the solid support that my daughter needs.

But this time again (maybe more so this time), I wonder if my wife will really follow through with any of her threats, and I wonder if I should start a thread on the legal board.

Ugh.  BPD can really suck.  I realize I'm throwing myself a little pity party here.  At least, each time around the cycle I feel a bit stronger.  Many thanks to all of you for being there and for your support.  And maybe I do need to start putting together a plan, just in case it does all go to crap on one of these cycles.

Still "staying", but unfortunately less optimistic at the moment.

[123Phoebe]

Zaqsert,   and here's a big one for your daughter, too

I have to admit that your story triggers me.  Your wife behaves so much like my mother.  Jealous and paranoid and putting adult expectations on a 2 years old child, her own daughter, while she (your wife) behaves like a brat.

I'm not saying this to alarm you or judge what's going on, it's more of an observation and linking it to what went on in my own family.

I won't go into many details, as you already know them, you're living them.

I have an older sister and she got the brunt of mother's wrath.  Dad adored sis and tried to protect her psyche to the point of enabling later on, when she turned to drugs and all kinds of other things.  Mother sat back in judgment, blaming dad for everything under the sun.  It was his fault that her kids turned out the way they did.  She told me he didn't think I was his, to draw a wedge between us-- 'Look at how he treats sis so much better than you'... 'Your sister never liked you'... . 'It's always been us against them'.  And on it would go... .

Divide and Conquer crap to the max.  Just plain old dysfunctional.  And dad couldn't deal.  He was no match for the twisted logic spewed by his wife, the mother of his children.  And he never said one mean word about her!

Your wife is sick and may not recover.  This might be as good as it gets.  My heart breaks for your daughter.

I'm sorry to not have a brighter happier note to leave you with... .   Trying to find logic in an adult making accusations against a 2 year old just sends me over the edge because it's nonsensical.  Adults are to protect children.  Mother's protect their children.  Father's protect their children. 

I haven't checked to see if you posted a thread on the legal board, but think it would be a really good idea to get other's feedback.  What your daughter is experiencing is BPD in the making stuff.  Her little psyche is being damaged, her development grossly askewed. 

It's not a good situation at all for anyone to be in.

Take good care of yourself and your daughter   I wish your wife the best, too.  This might be a glimpse of what she endured while growing up and it just keeps on happening :'(

[zaqsert]

Phoebe, thanks for the hugs.  I really needed those.

Thanks too for sharing your story.  I worry about the effect on my daughter.  I think you're right about this being a glimpse of what my wife went through growing up. 

My T suggested that the first 3 years, and even up to the first 5 years, are particularly important for children.  She said that if I can be present and very stable for my daughter during those years, it can drastically reduce the chances of her developing a personality disorder.  There may still be plenty of stuff for her to work out in therapy, but she will be off to a better start.

So I feel like I'm "staying" until she is 5 and will then reevaluate the situation.  If my wife and I ever do divorce, I will do everything I can to get as much time as possible with my daughter.  But the uncertainty of the legal outcome is a risk that I am unwilling to take right now.  Hey, I'm not exactly adding any bright and happy notes here either.

Interestingly... .   A little over an hour after I closed the door so that I wouldn't have to put up with my wife's threats of undermining me in front of our daughter, it was time to wake up our daughter so that she wouldn't nap too late into the afternoon.  I asked my wife if she wanted to join me.  She accepted.  Then she proceeded to be really nice, reasonable, motherly and loving to D2 for the rest of the afternoon and evening.  Well, at least until she was too tired and had to go to bed (she's been taking something to help her sleep), at which point she bailed from most of D2's bedtime routine.  D2 loved her time with her mom (my wife), as I would have expected.

I can only venture guesses as to what drove her to act this way tonight.  I wish I could hope that it would last, but it seems more likely that my wife will continue to cycle with D2 as she has with me over the past few years.  I hate that my 2 year-old daughter has to go through all this push/pull cycling.

[123Phoebe]

Yea, I understand and want to apologize for being so grim.  You have a good sense of what's going on and have your daughter's best interest at heart  

Hone up on the Lessons and tools and keep on keeping on... .

[zaqsert]

Yea, I understand and want to apologize for being so grim.  You have a good sense of what's going on and have your daughter's best interest at heart  

I understand, but no need to apologize.  I appreciated what feels more like a realistic view at this point.

Hone up on the Lessons and tools and keep on keeping on... .

Will do.  Thanks again!

[waverider]

BTW, I'm starting to think that your name here ("waverider" may be related to how you've learned to ride the waves with your pwBPD, rather than getting pummeled under them. 

That's exactly where it came from

and my peaceful escape is:



Beats locking yourself in the bathroom !

[zaqsert]

That's exactly where it came from

and my peaceful escape is:

[... . ]

Beats locking yourself in the bathroom !

Very nice!  It sure does beat locking yourself in the bathroom! 

[waverider]

I thnk a realistic approach as adviced by 123phoebe is important, in particular looking at realistic options in case it all goes sour. Not that I am saying leave, but if it comes to it, having a plan helps. Also knowing it is there reduces the feeling of being trapped.

Maybe your wife will always be like this, or at least there will be no quick fix, and a quick fix is what will be required to avoid it affecting your daughter.

You seem to be doing a reasonable job so far. There is limit to what you can do physically. It is more a case of not letting it get to you inside your head. Mental separation if you like.

Being consitent with your D along with lots of hugs, kisses and affirmations will go a long way towards protecting her. Many who grow up in dysfunctionality can cope as long as there is one strong stable parent. It is when the dysfuntional one dominates and cowers the other that reall damage is done.

[Blazing Star]

Hi Zaqsert!

I just wanted to affirm that you are doing so well being a stable, and loving base for your daughter. I know it must be so heartbreaking at times. My D4 still struggles, and is able to verbalise it a little more now, which is helpful. My T recommended doing some Mindfulness stuff with her regarding her conflicting feelings about her father eg "a part of me wants him to go away, and another part of me loves him and wants him to stay" that we are made up of ever changing parts etc.

My T does play therapy so I am going to take D4 along next session.

We do what we can, and I think the concern is always there, as 123phoebe experienced, of our partners effecting our children more than we realise. 

Love Blazing Star

[zaqsert]

Thanks, Waverider.  I think you're right about looking at realistic options.  Even just starting to think about the options is helping me feel a bit less trapped.

It is more a case of not letting it get to you inside your head. Mental separation if you like.

Not letting it get to me inside my head is something I still need to work on.  It feels easier than it used to, but I'm still working on this part.  Actually, feeling a bit less trapped seems to be helping with this too.

Being consitent with your D along with lots of hugs, kisses and affirmations will go a long way towards protecting her. Many who grow up in dysfunctionality can cope as long as there is one strong stable parent. It is when the dysfuntional one dominates and cowers the other that reall damage is done.

Most definitely.  My wife has said that I coddle our daughter too much.  I'm ok with that.

It's interesting... .   I noticed recently that I give our daughter hugs and kisses all the time, while my wife asks our D to give hugs to her (my wife) periodically, sometimes apparently prompted by seeing me hug our D.  Then my wife complains that I get more affection from our D than she does, when in fact I'm the one who is giving it.  It's just that she does not see it that way.  Ever since I started noticing this, it feels like I can't stop noticing it.  I suppose it may be some combination of entitlement, control, or self-centeredness.  In any case, interesting.

I just wanted to affirm that you are doing so well being a stable, and loving base for your daughter.

Thanks, Blazing Star!

My D4 still struggles, and is able to verbalise it a little more now, which is helpful. My T recommended doing some Mindfulness stuff with her regarding her conflicting feelings about her father eg "a part of me wants him to go away, and another part of me loves him and wants him to stay" that we are made up of ever changing parts etc.

My T does play therapy so I am going to take D4 along next session.

The mindfulness stuff with your D4 sounds like a great idea, as does play therapy.

I'll have to find out at what age I could start getting some therapy for D2 (soon to be D3).  I know we've talked about this before -- any leg up for her would be great.  Paraphrasing Waverider, to help give her some more stability among the dysfunction.

[waverider]

Do you find that when your wife is in a generous and caring mode it is not about caring or giving, there is an underlying agenda about receiving approval or praise? In other words its not about the receiver it is really is about her getting her needs met

As  a result gestures are high profile/visible with maximum praise per effort, and at a time that suits her. As opposed to quietly putting a lot of effort in at a time that suits the receiver, regardless of whether convenient for her.

When I saw this behavior for what it was it was a ight bulb moment that explained what seemed to be a contradiction, between apparent generosity and at other times selfishness. It's not selfless giving, it is buying approval when they need it.

[123Phoebe]

It's interesting... .  I noticed recently that I give our daughter hugs and kisses all the time, while my wife asks our D to give hugs to her (my wife) periodically, sometimes apparently prompted by seeing me hug our D.  Then my wife complains that I get more affection from our D than she does, when in fact I'm the one who is giving it.  It's just that she does not see it that way.  Ever since I started noticing this, it feels like I can't stop noticing it.  I suppose it may be some combination of entitlement, control, or self-centeredness.  In any case, interesting.

Unrelated, but in the same vein... .

My mom is like this with a lot of things.  She expects people to come to her, yet doesn't reach out to them. Then gets really mad and black-lists them if they don't reach out to her in the amount of time she deems appropriate, threatens to cut off future gifts and goodies, because how dare they!  Now mind you, she hasn't lifted a finger to make any sort of contact or get to really know these people/family members/gift recipients (other than life dramas) and has in fact insulted them on numerous occasions... .

A lot of the time, the gifts she gives are actually things that she likes.  She has purchased things that are unique to my interests (nice!), when I talk about these interests though... .  She shows zero interest and may in fact make fun of them, usually when it's least expected, because the focus isn't on her.  By gifting me something, the focus is on her.

This is the sort of thing that as a younger unaware person, I really let get to me; it was so confusing!  It looked like she was interested, but it sure didn't feel like it.  Then guilt would set in that I would even question anything about my mother who MUST love me.  I lost my sense of self and direction, because if my own mom wasn't showing an active interest in my life, then I must be a weirdo doing something wrong and I'd lose interest in my own interests   If I got more love and attention by focusing on her and her needs, by god I was going to get that love any way I could!  I was scared to death to have it snatched away.  After all, she really does have it harder than I do... .   And in rolled the fog... .

Fear  Obligation  Guilt

My sister on the other hand, fought her and fought her HARD!  No way was mom putting up with any of that defiance; she fought back harder and eventually broke my sister down.  There was no winning that fight.  It was a battle of broken and underdeveloped wills.  Everyone in the family lost.

These are issues that might need to be eased and quelled within your daughter over time... .

[waverider]

It's interesting... .  I noticed recently that I give our daughter hugs and kisses all the time, while my wife asks our D to give hugs to her (my wife) periodically, sometimes apparently prompted by seeing me hug our D.  Then my wife complains that I get more affection from our D than she does, when in fact I'm the one who is giving it.  It's just that she does not see it that way.  Ever since I started noticing this, it feels like I can't stop noticing it.  I suppose it may be some combination of entitlement, control, or self-centeredness.  In any case, interesting.

Unrelated, but in the same vein... .

My mom is like this with a lot of things.  She expects people to come to her, yet doesn't reach out to them. Then gets really mad and black-lists them if they don't reach out to her in the amount of time she deems appropriate, threatens to cut off future gifts and goodies, because how dare they!  Now mind you, she hasn't lifted a finger to make any sort of contact or get to really know these people/family members/gift recipients (other than life dramas) and has in fact insulted them on numerous occasions... .

A lot of the time, the gifts she gives are actually things that she likes.  She has purchased things that are unique to my interests (nice!), when I talk about these interests though... .  She shows zero interest and may in fact make fun of them, usually when it's least expected, because the focus isn't on her.  By gifting me something, the focus is on her.

This is the sort of thing that as a younger unaware person, I really let get to me; it was so confusing!  It looked like she was interested, but it sure didn't feel like it.  Then guilt would set in that I would even question anything about my mother who MUST love me.  I lost my sense of self and direction, because if my own mom wasn't showing an active interest in my life, then I must be a weirdo doing something wrong and I'd lose interest in my own interests   If I got more love and attention by focusing on her and her needs, by god I was going to get that love any way I could!  I was scared to death to have it snatched away.  After all, she really does have it harder than I do... .   And in rolled the fog... .

Fear  Obligation  Guilt

My sister on the other hand, fought her and fought her HARD!  No way was mom putting up with any of that defiance; she fought back harder and eventually broke my sister down.  There was no winning that fight.  It was a battle of broken and underdeveloped wills.  Everyone lost.

These are issues that might need to be eased and quelled within your daughter over time... .

Your mum sounds like my partners family

Even with breast cancer, have they been to visit no, and they all live in same city. But they keep asking her to visit their family gatherings. They are the ones who are high functioning mobile not my partner.

They paint me white "for what I have to put up with". Her mum went out and bought me an expensive present on behalf of the family, something I was going to buy for myself anyway, in appreciation. Did it get my respect? No, as I see it as throwing money at me to get approval, and also to out source her duty of care. If the family really cared how tough i am doing it with BPD and Cancer then they would get off their butt and share some of that care and give me respite. But then whipping out the credit card with a whole lot of fanfare and buying a dose of approval without personal effort is easier.

So it is clear to me there is a degree of PD in the family background.

[123Phoebe]

Even with breast cancer, have they been to visit no, and they all live in same city. But they keep asking her to visit their family gatherings.

Yea, it's just so wrong and backwards.  And I would imagine it puts a huge strain on your partner; conflicting feelings = CONFLICT.  It has to be expressed in some way.  If her own family doesn't care then why should she

That is the huge difference between choosing to be in relationship and one where a child has no choice, or voice way too often.

Zaqsert, you have 3 roles to attend to... .  

You are choosing to be with your wife.  Your daughter didn't choose this turmoil, though she naturally loves you and her mother.  And you need to take really super duper good care of yourself through all of this... .

Stay strong!

[waverider]

Yea, it's just so wrong and backwards.  And I would imagine it puts a huge strain on your partner; conflicting feelings = CONFLICT.  It has to be expressed in some way.  If her own family doesn't care then why should she

Yes, and as in your case the child can think this is normal and develop unhealthy coping mechanisms, and as you have reminded Zaqsert, looking after himself to make sure he is safe and grounded is the only way a child can know the difference and not take dysfunctionality as a role model.

It took my partner until only recently, and she is now 50, that in fact her family are not the "perfect" family they portray to be. I think this is because they are all damaged in some way, yet high functioning. My partner is low functioning and as such is the weak link in a damaged chain, so took all the strain

[123Phoebe]

It took my partner until only recently, and she is now 50, that in fact her family are not the "perfect" family they portray to be. I think this is because they are all damaged in some way, yet high functioning. My partner is low functioning and as such is the weak link in a damaged chain, so took all the strain

Oh sure, so did the focus go primarily on your partner, to take the focus off of the rest of the family?

My mom made my sister the focus.  Instigated.  Then blamed dad for 'spoiling' her (protecting).  Would rant that sister ran the household, it's all about her and would tell me "Just watch how dad panders to her.  She has him wrapped around her little finger".

I could see the discrepancies, would try to soothe my mom's emotions, my thoughts would get shot down and eventually I caved.  I needed to believe in something.  I needed to get some needs met!

When sis eventually turned to drugs, it was a free for all!  Man, all the family issues could be directed right towards her!