His friend contacted me

[shatra]

My ex (it has been almost a year since the breakup out of the blue) has a close friend who lives in another area.  The only connection the friend and I have is my ex (I am not really friends with this guy)... .the friend left me a voicemail saying he'll be in our city in 2 weeks to see my ex and the friend wants to see me... .

    I know triangulating often involves the pwBPD bringing in a romantic interest into the relationship, but is this (involving a friend) also triangulation? Or something else? Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

[Invictus01]

You are busy that day... .right? :D

[zeus123]

triangulation or not just stay away!

[Turkish]

Do you feel that your ex is deliberately involving his friend to connect with you?

The drama triangle involves 3 roles: Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. It can be two people, often switching roles. It can also involve another person entering the triangle, though not always. A good example would be a child (victim) asking Mommy for something. She says no (becoming Persecutor). Child goes to ask Daddy (Rescuer). How all three participants handle the situation at this point determines if the triangle tightens like a noose, or dissolves. F Daddy tells the child, "your mother has good judgement; I trust her decision," he may temporarily become Persecutor in the child's mind (who may accept it, or go into his room to have an extinction burst). He has, however, stepped out of the triangle. If either parent feels guilt (say FOG), and steps into the Rescuer role ("sure you can have the ice cream while you're playing with matches) the dysfunction triangle is complete. A boundary being asserted, by not stepoing into the conflict, disengages the person who's being asked to step into the triangle.

It could be that this request is an attempt to start drama. It could also be a buddy worried about his friend and he wants to talk. Nit all triangulation is necessarily bad, especially if a healthy outcome is achieved. The boundaries, however, lie with you, under your ownership. Whatever his friend's motivation, or that of your ex (and you can only guess), you have a right as an independent entity to either engage, or BIFF it: "No."

A No-SET response is up to you  

[shatra]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure if I'm going to stay away.

Turkish wrote

It could be that this request is an attempt to start drama. It could also be a buddy worried about his friend and he wants to talk. Nit all triangulation is necessarily bad, especially if a healthy outcome is achieved. The boundaries, however, lie with you, under your ownership. Whatever his friend's motivation, or that of your ex (and you can only guess), you have a right as an independent entity to either engage, or BIFF it: "No."

A No-SET response is up to you

---Yes it could be a drama attempt. I don't think the friend (Scott) is worried about my ex---if he is, there are many friends he and my ex share who he would turn to. 

   Again, I am not really friends with Scott, the only connection we share is my ex, so I don't think it's a random, casual outreach.  I didnt' realize that all triangulations involve those 3 roles, I thought there could be other roles (i.e. jealous person, new replacement being triangulated in, parent substitute, coordinator of interactions, etc.).  But with those roles, I could be seen as the persecutor and my ex as the victim (or vice versa).

  Can you explain the language a bit---not sure what BIFF is? ANd I know what SET is, but what is a "no SET response"---not giving SET I assume?

[Fox Mulder]

I don't understand why you want to see this guy. You're not friends with him, and he's messaged you out of the blue to tell you he wants to hang out since he'll be in town to visit your ex. That just seems dangerous to me. But if you want to make a random decision to see him, best of luck.

[shatra]

FoxMulder wrote

You're not friends with him, and he's messaged you out of the blue to tell you he wants to hang out since he'll be in town to visit your ex. That just seems dangerous to me

====That's just it, I am not friends with him he is close friends with my ex. Which is where I see the connection.  Dangerous how?  Do u mean emotionally? We would all be playing tennis in a public tennis court

[Turkish]

A no SET is merely T, "no." BIFF is Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. Though good for divorcees and co-parents, this is good for many here, not as drastic and possibly triggering of drama as cold NC:

TOOLS: Responding to hostile email

It's asserting boindaries, politely, but firmly.

[shatra]

Thanks for clarifying the terms, Turkish... .I hear that people are saying don't meet with the ex's friend... .still not clear on whether this sounds like triagulation, or using a 3rd party to contact me or something else... .

[Turkish]

Let's simplify: you feel uncomfortable and you have a right not to be so.  

[Skip]

Triangulation? 

Triangulation is an often misunderstood term on this site.  Triangulation as coined by Murray Bowen MD is the “process whereby a two-party relationship that is experiencing tension will naturally involve a third party to reduce tension” (Bobes & Rothman, 2002).

Simply put, when a two-person relationship becomes unstable the individuals will tolerate only a small amount of tension before they involve a third person. The resulting triangle can hold much more tension because the tension can shift around the three relationships.

Bowen's observations are incredible.  We all do this.  Triangles often help us cope.

Sometimes, however, triangulation can cause more turmoil in the relationship, causing further communication difficulties and conflict. According to Bowen''s Theory, a triangle creates an ‘odd man out,’ which is a very difficult position for individuals to tolerate. Anxiety generated by anticipating or being the odd one out is a huge force in triangles.

In calm periods, two people become comfortably close "insiders" and the third person is an uncomfortable "outsider." If tensions increase, insiders more actively exclude the outsider and/or the outsider may work to get closer to one of the insiders. If the tension is too much for one triangle to contain, it spreads to a series of "interlocking" triangles.

A classic example of triangulation is a mother telling her son that his father is treating her badly, rather than facing her husband directly and resolving the conflict. And while this may initially solve the mothers anxiety, the triangulation may create issues in the relationship between the son and the father where the mother takes sides - in effect, there are now two conflicts being triangulated among the parties.

According to Bowen, these three part relationships (triangles) have at least four possible outcomes which are as follows - 2 are good and 2 are bad:

(1) A stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;

(2) a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);

(3) an unstable pair can be stabilized by the addition of a third person (an example would be a conflictual marriage becoming more harmonious after the birth of a child; and

(4) an unstable pair being stabilized by the removal of a third person (an example would be conflict is reduced by the removal of a third person who takes sides).

The triangulation concept is one of eight parts of Bowen's family systems theory: www.thebowencenter.org/pages/concepttri.html.  Bowen's point is that triangulation is occurring all the time - we are all involved in triangles - some good, some bad.

Getting Out  For the purpose of conflict resolution, it's helpful to understand triangulation and to avoid it.  Generally speaking, the first step for getting out of the triangle once you are in it is to identify the original source of the tension or problem and deal with it and not get all caught up the additional issues created by the triangulation.

The way to avoid creating triangles is to be self aware and not be lured by the immediate gratification that they offer. 

The Karpman Triangle further explained the conflict dynamics that can develop in triangulations.  Karpman identified that polarized roles of the participants emerge as one person assumes the role of victim.  He also explained that the roles often shift around in time increasing the conflict among the 3 parties. Staying out of the drama generally means not reacting in kind to the polarized view of the victim or embracing the polarized role in which you are cast. Stay centered. Karpman is explained here: Karpman Triangle. 

Misconceptions  Some members think of "triangulation" as a dysfunctional BPD behavior perpetrated on them by a person with BPD - and why not - this is how we see triangles when we are in them and the '"odd man out" . Seeing it this way is exactly the opposite of what we want to do to end the drama.

Triangles are all around us. This was Bowen's point.  And while it is true that some triangulation can be dysfunctional - triangulation is most often functional or benign.

[Skip]

My ex (it has been almost a year since the breakup out of the blue) has a close friend who lives in another area.  The only connection the friend and I have is my ex (I am not really friends with this guy)... .the friend left me a voicemail saying he'll be in our city in 2 weeks to see my ex and the friend wants to see me... .

Maybe he wants to sell you insurance... .or maybe he just wants to have things to do at night while he is in town... .or maybe your ex had a face transplant and this is your ex 

You're a year out, you should on solid ground to field a call, be open, see what is interest, and decide.

[Fr4nz]

My ex (it has been almost a year since the breakup out of the blue) has a close friend who lives in another area.  The only connection the friend and I have is my ex (I am not really friends with this guy)... .the friend left me a voicemail saying he'll be in our city in 2 weeks to see my ex and the friend wants to see me... .

Maybe he wants to sell you insurance... .or maybe he just wants to have things to do at night while he is in town... .or maybe your ex had a face transplant and this is your ex  

You're a year out, you should on solid ground to field a call, be open, see what is interest, and decide.

I agree with skip... .for what is related to me, I'd be curious to see what is going on. Obviously you have to feel "detached", since you would not be vulnerable from that position.

Your call

[shatra]

Skip wrote

Maybe he wants to sell you insurance... .or maybe he just wants to have things to do at night while he is in town... .or maybe your ex had a face transplant and this is your ex

-----He doesn't sell anything, he has a job out of town.  While he is in town there are lots of other people he knows who he can see, and he will only be here for a short time.  My only connection to him is through my ex and he will be staying with my ex, and any get together may involve my ex... .this is not a "mutual friend" this is a friend of my ex's

[C.Stein]

Perhaps instead of wondering what is going on why not just ask the guy why he wants to see you. 

[shatra]

C Stein wrote

Perhaps instead of wondering what is going on why not just ask the guy why he wants to see you.

---- I wouldn't want to be impolite to him.  Also, because of the details I described above, it is likely a connection to my ex, so his friend wouldn't come out and tell me

[enlighten me]

My gut instinct is that he wants to tell you something or wants to ask you something.

If he's not a close friend then I cant see any other reasonable explanation. If this is the case then do you want to hear it? If its information about your ex and something she did or said then will it set you back? If its about your relationship do you want to discuss it? Will it give you closure or set you back?

Maybe call him back and tell him its nice to hear from him and you where surprised that he contacted you and that your curious as to why he looked you up. He may say he wants to talk about your ex and if that's the case then you can decide whether you want to or whether to tell him that its past history and you don't want to go there.

[shatra]

Enlighten me wrote---

My gut instinct is that he wants to tell you something or wants to ask you something.  If he's not a close friend then I cant see any other reasonable explanation. If this is the case then do you want to hear it? If its information about your ex and something she did or said then will it set you back? If its about your relationship do you want to discuss it? Will it give you closure or set you back?

-----Yes it's possible that he wants to tell me or ask me something. He 2might also want to be pulling me into a game of tennis with my ex---another reasonable explanation.  If he wants to tell me things/ask about my relationship with my ex I might discuss it.  He (my ex) might be there too though (which could be the plan overall).

---When you say closure do u mean having more info on the relationship and the ex?

[enlighten me]

Like I said its just my gut feeling on what you said. As you say it could be a number of other things.

By closure I mean it could answer some of the unanswered questions you still have. I doubt you will get the closure of a complete answer to everything and a heartfelt apology from your ex.

[Skip]

Have you called him back?

[Newton]

I agree with C Stein and Skip... .if someone has reached out to you... .in what way is it impolite to ask "why"?... .(perhaps SET language rather than a direct "why?"  ...

The speculation will drive you nuts... .and the friend is the only one who knows their motivation... .

[shatra]

Elighten me wrote--

By closure I mean it could answer some of the unanswered questions you still have. I doubt you will get the closure of a complete answer to everything and a heartfelt apology from your ex.

---- True.  I would love to know why he suddenly dropped me after 7 years without explanation... .whether he was with someone else while I was with him... .what the reaction of his 3 kids was to the breakup... .other questions... .

Skip wrote

Have u called him back yet?

-----Not yet, I was reaching out to the board for insight and support---plan to call him back this week.

Newton wrote

In what way is it impolite to ask why?

-----Well, if I asked someone to meet up and they asked why? I would feel hurt and insulted... .I personally would think it's an impolite response.  Scott reaching out is more complicated, as he will be staying with my ex, and is primarily his friend, so there is some connection there.

[Newton]

I'm not so concerned about how people perceive me these days... . ... .I'd like to think I treat people kindly... .balanced with maintaining my boundaries and emotional well being... .so sounding out another about their motives/intentions is part of that initial negotiation with them... .and self so I can make an informed decision about what to do next... .

I appreciate his direct connection with your ex, hence your internal conflict and post here... .surely if he is someone who has your best interests at heart... .he will appreciate your reservations and respect your boundaries... .if he feels hurt, so be it... .that is about him.


ps... .your boundary may look like "I will not associate with people connected to my ex"... .that is just fine too 

[thisworld]

Well, if I asked someone to meet up and they asked why? I would feel hurt and insulted... .I personally would think it's an impolite response.  Scott reaching out is more complicated, as he will be staying with my ex, and is primarily his friend, so there is some connection there.

This is very true for some of us. At the same time, the people we ask to meet up usually know why we may be wanting to meet them because there is a mutually recognized context. Once that's there, someone asking "why" may really sound impolite. But here, you don't know the context - this call has surprised you- so I don't think asking politely would be impolite. I don't know if this would apply to our case but sometimes people try to manipulate by "proxy." Learning about this man's intentions may empower you and prepare you better for anything that may come. When I find myself in this situation, it's usually about how much my ex loves me, how sad he is without me etc and I bet my responses are carried to him.

Good luck with this Shatra. 

[shatra]

Yes, Newton I was putting Scott (the friend's) feelings ahead of mine... .I would like to focus less on how people perceive me (as you wrote you are able to do)

This world wrote\

I don't know if this would apply to our case but sometimes people try to manipulate by "proxy." Learning about this man's intentions may empower you and prepare you better for anything that may come. When I find myself in this situation, it's usually about how much my ex loves me, how sad he is without me etc and I bet my responses are carried to him.

----Manipulate by proxy... .does that mean the ex may be trying to manipulate by proxy (thru the 3rd party)?

----When you find yourself in this situation it's about how sad your ex is without you... .I understand that... .when you wrote "I bet my responses are carried to him" I am unsure what that means?

[thisworld]

Shatra hi,

Yes, sometimes people try to manipulate others through a third party. This is usually a family member, a relative or a close friend. Sometimes the two talk about it openly (not saying manipulation I suppose) but they talk like "Let's do this and see how she reacts", with an openly discussed motive. Sometimes friends do this unknowingly because they are affected by their friend's feelings so they decide to contact us (they themselves were manipulated). When I split up with my ex, I got contacted more than once by a very good-hearted male friend of ours (he didn't know my ex much though) and I heard about how my ex was so sad without me, that we seemed like such a good couple, maybe I should give him another chance etc. (This wasn't the only truth of my ex at that time though, he was busy with women etc). To avoid future trouble from my ex, I didn't discuss anything with our friend, gave polite answers without context and told him that I was a bit inward nowadays and asked him to understand me. If I reacted in any other way I believe my ex would use this to approach me (to recycle or to blame).

By carrying I mean that these friends usually tell our partners the content of our talks word by word. They talk about our emotional reactions etc.

Have a good day,