First tears since separation back in June

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

A friend of mine invited me to her neighborhood's Halloween party this evening.  She mentioned it a few weeks ago, and I figured it would be a reasonably social thing for me to do on a weekend I don't have the kids.

I was more tired than I really had any excuse to be this afternoon.  Even took a power nap before going to the party since I didn't want to be dragging all evening.  But even once I got to the party, I felt a little "off."

I'm not really close with my friend, but I have known her through a mutual social group for years and have been getting to know her and her partner more since my separation.  They have each been through divorce themselves.  Apparently, my friend likes to dance.  She barely stopped moving during the party... .whether on the dance floor, sitting at a table, or standing off to the side.

uBPDxw was a dancer up through college, and always loved to dance at parties.  I was always content to hang out on the sidelines and appreciate her movement, secure in the knowledge that she was coming home with me.  But tonight, no one was coming home with me.

Tonight, I did what I usually do at parties... .stood off to the side with my drink and watched the crowd.  And realized more with each moment that passed just how alone I am.  I think what pushed me over the edge was when a George Michael song came on (he has always been one of uBPDxw's absolute favorites).  I ended up wandering out of the clubhouse onto the pool deck and taking a lot of deep breaths.  A few tears shook loose, but I still did what a could to stamp down anything more.  I did not want to lose my sh*t and be some kind of drama queen at my friend's party.

After a few minutes, I collected myself, went back inside and made it through the rest of the evening.

I don't know what to make of it all.  I guess it's normal, but I still hate it.

mw

[mama-wolf]

A friend of mine invited me to her neighborhood's Halloween party this evening.  She mentioned it a few weeks ago, and I figured it would be a reasonably social thing for me to do on a weekend I don't have the kids.

I was more tired than I really had any excuse to be this afternoon.  Even took a power nap before going to the party since I didn't want to be dragging all evening.  But even once I got to the party, I felt a little "off."

I'm not really close with my friend, but I have known her through a mutual social group for years and have been getting to know her and her partner more since my separation.  They have each been through divorce themselves.  Apparently, my friend likes to dance.  She barely stopped moving during the party... .whether on the dance floor, sitting at a table, or standing off to the side.

uBPDxw was a dancer up through college, and always loved to dance at parties.  I was always content to hang out on the sidelines and appreciate her movement, secure in the knowledge that she was coming home with me.  But tonight, no one was coming home with me.

Tonight, I did what I usually do at parties... .stood off to the side with my drink and watched the crowd.  And realized more with each moment that passed just how alone I am.  I think what pushed me over the edge was when a George Michael song came on (he has always been one of uBPDxw's absolute favorites).  I ended up wandering out of the clubhouse onto the pool deck and taking a lot of deep breaths.  A few tears shook loose, but I still did what a could to stamp down anything more.  I did not want to lose my sh*t and be some kind of drama queen at my friend's party.

After a few minutes, I collected myself, went back inside and made it through the rest of the evening.

I don't know what to make of it all.  I guess it's normal, but I still hate it.

mw

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi mw,

I’m sorry you are in such pain.  I know it is very uncomfortable feeling these sad emotions, but (and it’s a big but ; ) you are feeling the emotions.  Having a tear is progress, don’t you think?  You knew what you were feeling and you expressed that emotion with a tear.

It sounds like you are working through your feelings and that’s the way you will eventually begin to feel lighter, by letting some of these things that have been so tightly held down come to the surface.

How are you feeling today?

Mustbe

[MeandThee29]

I find that the tears come at odd moments even over a year later. It's OK.

I ran into friends from way back early in our marriage today. I hadn't seen them in 5-6 years. Just seeing them got me teary, thinking about what was in better times. Later on they asked about him. I didn't belabor explaining.

Still sad though.

[Mutt]

Hi mama-wolf,

I don't know what to make of it all. 

I read your post I read a lot of triggers if I were in your shoes I think that I would have the same reaction it's going to take some time before you get to a point where seeing or thinking about her is not going to affect you emotionally. You need more time behind you.

[mama-wolf]

but (and it’s a big but ; ) you are feeling the emotions.  Having a tear is progress, don’t you think? 

Ugh.  Yes, I suppose so... .for what few moments I let it slip out.

How are you feeling today?

I have been doing OK today, thank you for asking Mustbe.  I had planned to make my first visit back to our old church this morning, and still followed through on it despite last night's events.  We were members there for more than five years, but uBPDxw ultimately prompted our departure from that congregation (she split on the leadership there).  While I'm not what I would call very religious, I really liked that community and have missed them since we left.  I especially like the environment for kids to grow up in.

After church, where multiple folks were very kind and welcomed me back, I continued some shopping that I had started on Friday.  I have long wanted to update my wardrobe, but could never prioritize the spending... .especially since we always seemed to be trying to play catch-up from the things uBPDxw wanted to spend our money on.  My work clothes had especially started showing their wear, and with a major work meeting coming up in November I decided I needed to make a point to dress more like the position I hold at the office.

I feel like I spent way too much money, but I would probably still feel that way if I spent half as much as I did this weekend.  At least now, I can hope that I will feel just a little better about myself when I walk into the office tomorrow, and the next day.

I ran into friends from way back early in our marriage today.

Still sad though.

MeandThee29, thank you for sharing this... .it helps to have reinforcement that this is common, even if I don't like it or want it to happen.  I hope you are doing ok now.

I read your post I read a lot of triggers

You need more time behind you.

Mutt, thank you for pointing out triggers.  I have been thinking so much about (and guarding against) triggers for my anxiety and even anger as it pertains to interactions with my ex... .I had not even considered triggers for other things like sadness.  I get that time will help, and that I definitely need more time and space from the separation itself.  This just brings me back around to my other thread about triggers and my frustration over that whole concept (that they are there, that I can be triggered in some way, etc).

I really miss my T.

mw

[Euler2718]

Crying is good for you. And if youre like me you have a lot of sorrow bottled up in there, crying is good. To me, grief is like food poisoning. For a while you're sick and feel really really bad, and puking feels bad too, but you know once it starts that you will feel better afterwards. Crying is like that. It feels bad when it's happening, but its necessary to eradicate the toxins so don't hold it in if you are in a safe place to let it out.

[Turkish]

Do you judge yourself "weak" for crying?

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi again, mw, glad you revisited and felt welcomed by your church community.  That sounds like a really good step.

Good for you for updating your wardrobe.  I get what your saying about spending money on yourself.  I can be that way, too.  But, it's important to take care of yourself.  I bet you will enjoy wearing your new clothes and feel just a little more confident.

I think the best answer to places, people, events that may bring up uncomfortable emotions is to be kind to ourselves.  Just this evening, I rode my bike on some hike and bike trails near my old neighborhood.  I have been so sad about leaving my familiar, comfortable neighborhood.  As I felt sadness, I really just said to myself, yes it is sad, but it's ok.  It's going to be ok and the feeling stayed with me for a moment and then it passed.  

I hope you have a great week.

Mustbe

[mama-wolf]

To me, grief is like food poisoning. For a while you're sick and feel really really bad, and puking feels bad too, but you know once it starts that you will feel better afterwards. Crying is like that.

What a great analogy Euler2718!  I definitely understand that feeling with food poisoning... .the whole, "this is really going to suck, but it will feel much better on the other side."  I'll try to keep that in mind for this whole experience.

Do you judge yourself "weak" for crying?

Actually, no... .I understand crying and its purpose.   Some days I'll be driving along and for just a few seconds I feel hot tears boiling under the surface, but just no way to come out.  It passes, but I'm very aware of it in the moment.

It's more about my discomfort in general with the emotions and difficulty/reluctance in accessing them... .particularly ones that are strong enough to push me to that point of crying.  In some ways I judge myself "weak" for being that sad.  I know this is not true, but that's my internal struggle.  It's that battle on multiple fronts.  Thoughts like, "I chose to leave the marriage, so I don't get to be sad like that"... ."uBPDxw manipulated my emotions enough already, she should't be able to make me sad now"... .and ultimately, "Can't I just be over this already?" 

Plus, it was really inconvenient for it to pop up while I was trying to do something healthy like going out and being social with friends.  I didn't want them to see me upset.

As I felt sadness, I really just said to myself, yes it is sad, but it's ok.  It's going to be ok and the feeling stayed with me for a moment and then it passed.  

I hope you have a great week.

Thanks, Mustbe.  I will say that in those moments of deep breathing and trying to calm myself down, I had some form of this going in the back of my mind.  It was pretty overpowered by my other thoughts, but it was progress at least for me to make any effort to comfort myself at all.

mw

[Euler2718]

It's more about my discomfort in general with the emotions and difficulty/reluctance in accessing them... .particularly ones that are strong enough to push me to that point of crying.  In some ways I judge myself "weak" for being that sad.  I know this is not true, but that's my internal struggle.  It's that battle on multiple fronts.  Thoughts like, "I chose to leave the marriage, so I don't get to be sad like that"... ."uBPDxw manipulated my emotions enough already, she should't be able to make me sad now"... .and ultimately, "Can't I just be over this already?" 

I want to ask you things! First, my T says maybe people who've suffered from long term depression can't do feelings well. I have the feelings face chart (for children, ha ha) and a feelings wheel etc., But I survived my 37 years if depression by ignoring my feelings. Side effect: I can't feel love or joy very well either. Second side effect: women treasured love, and I had it but it was buried and I couldn't access it; they thought I didn't love them. Third side effect: they told me I "wasn't a keeper"  (and other things) and now I feel unloveable because the part of me they need is broke.

As for I chose to leave... .Is that what happened to you? Mine said " maybe we should break up" and I agreed under stress, but it kept getting suggested. I wouldn't have done it on my own, but technically I made the decision. Maybe you had a similar experience. I bet you held in as long as sanity and/or self-respect would permit.

[Euler2718]

Also, I did say I found it hard to access feelings... .but I feel it's especially true if I feel UNSAFE, and with the BPD drama, well, I rarely felt safe.  Also, she asked questions (are you in love with me, tell me about your last girlfriend, is there something wrong with my face, can you not live me because of my butt being too big, etc) -- anyway, the feeling I got was panic: I have to answer, I can't lie, if I answer wrong collapse of the relationship will ensue. I felt unsafe a lot and it came across as aloof. In the end she convinced me that I didn't love her (her beliefs we're very persistent).

[mama-wolf]

First, my T says maybe people who've suffered from long term depression can't do feelings well. I have the feelings face chart (for children, ha ha) and a feelings wheel etc.,

I have never suffered from depression, so I don't think that's it for me.  Granted, I skirted the edge during the separation process, which my T was monitoring closely, but that was as close as I have come to depression (so far).

But I survived my 37 years if depression by ignoring my feelings. Side effect: I can't feel love or joy very well either.

I have definitely gone through life ignoring and neglecting my feelings, and I do think this has resulted in muted experiences of love and joy in addition to protecting myself from the Big Bad negative emotions.  I get all of that, but the ultimate source or reason has been hard to pin down and resolve.  I discussed some abandonment topics in another thread that I am pretty sure are contributors, but it's mostly unknown territory that I won't have a chance to explore in depth until my T comes back from maternity leave.

Second side effect: women treasured love, and I had it but it was buried and I couldn't access it; they thought I didn't love them. Third side effect: they told me I "wasn't a keeper"  (and other things) and now I feel unloveable because the part of me they need is broke.

I'm so sorry, Euler2718.   I can imagine how hard that would be to hear, and I definitely relate to feeling unloveable because something inside seems broken.

As for I chose to leave... .Is that what happened to you? Mine said " maybe we should break up" and I agreed under stress, but it kept getting suggested. I wouldn't have done it on my own, but technically I made the decision. Maybe you had a similar experience. I bet you held in as long as sanity and/or self-respect would permit.

Well, my T would say--and has had to remind me a few times--that although I did ultimately make that choice, it was one forced by the conditions created by my uBPDxw, and it was for the sake of self-preservation and long-term health and happiness for my kids (first) and me (second).  I stayed in it far longer than I should have, but I still feel like The Abandoner, not the abandoned.  My T has tried to help me understand that it was my uBPDxw's devaluation, emotional manipulation/abuse, lack of respect and consideration for any of my needs, and other behaviors that reflect her abandonment of the marriage and me.  I spent all my energy trying to hold it all together and finally ran out.

Also, I did say I found it hard to access feelings... .but I feel it's especially true if I feel UNSAFE, and with the BPD drama, well, I rarely felt safe. 

the feeling I got was panic: I have to answer, I can't lie, if I answer wrong collapse of the relationship will ensue. I felt unsafe a lot and it came across as aloof.

Absolutely.  In the marriage itself, I think it was a gradual thing at first, but ultimately that's exactly where I was... .in this state of constant aloofness (or seemingly so) because it wasn't safe to share any genuine emotion.  And for me, I learned to avoid answering, or to give the most basic answer possible to her prods for reassurance, opinion, etc. so as to avoid provoking her or otherwise starting a discussion that would end up devaluing me and my feelings.

In the end she convinced me that I didn't love her (her beliefs we're very persistent).

Oh, yes... .their beliefs (their reality) are all that matters, and it is extremely persistent, isn't it?  It's hard to find yourself constantly having to battle whatever that reality is.  My T called it crazy-making and I agree.  You start to question your own reality, and it can be a real downhill spiral from there.  It also makes it extremely hard after the fact to piece together what was really going on and remind yourself that really was as bad as you thought it was.

mw

[Euler2718]

In addition to "not a keeper" I also got "a learning experience" and "an infatuation" -- mostly they just want to devalued the relationship so they don't feel like they lost anything (I always hated that Dodge dart, it was always breaking down). Maybe they could have kept it to themselves though! Probably just mad and needed to stab me a bit.

[mama-wolf]

Probably just mad and needed to stab me a bit.

Maybe... .but that doesn’t excuse their hurtful words/behavior.  Our pwBPD do lots of things hat hurt us that can be explained by their pain.  That doesn’t make it OK.  It’s definitely not OK for them to have said that to you.

How are you doing today Euler?

mw

[Euler2718]

I did everything I could (within reason) to get her back but she's with someone else. Sunday I texted her " you are precious to me" and six hours later she texted back "thanks". Sunday night,/ Monday I had obsessive thinking (replaying the last day, where I don't let her go). Hard to sleep, hard to work. Do I finally started to stop chasing her. If god wants her to come home, she'll let me know she wants to. If lack of object permsnence means dhr forgets me, what did I really have anyway? Nothing robust enough to survive life's vicissitudes. I also started talking to other girls (I like girls) but nothing serious or anything -- I'm needy and that would make things sort of one-sided and "unfair" (my weird ethics if dating, perhaps no one else's)

Day 3 if detachment almost over (Halloween). Thanks for asking!

[mama-wolf]

I think I have identified a little more of what got to me at the Halloween party this past weekend, because it came up again last night.

I didn't have the kids with me last night, so at first I was going to just hand out candy at my house.  But then a friend of mine invited me over for dinner with her and a few others.  It was pretty low-key... .we had chili and then sat outside handing out candy.  I knew I was pushing myself a little on the social front, not really feeling up for it but also trying to keep from isolating myself.

It wasn't as intense as at the Halloween party, but I definitely found myself feeling pretty down.  I realized after I got home that in both situations, I met someone new who was nice to me, and that threw me off.  I'm nowhere near thinking about dating anytime soon, if ever, and it's not like they were hitting on me at all.  It was more about them being nice, funny, and generally pleasant to be around, and the reality that I am meeting people socially now as someone who is no longer in a committed relationship.  It's really weird after 15 years.  On top of that, when they were nice to me, I almost didn't like it and in some ways felt like I didn't deserve it.  I know I shouldn't feel that way, so it reminds me there's still a lot of work to be done.

mw

[once removed]

I knew I was pushing myself a little on the social front, not really feeling up for it but also trying to keep from isolating myself.

i think these things are good to do, and its important to push ourselves on some level.

i also know that when we are exhausted, a crowd can be incredibly lonely. sometimes i hurt the most when i was laughing the hardest.

how are you feeling today, mama-wolf?

[Turkish]

I'll give you kudos for reaching out, m-w  I'm a self-isolator. I've struggled with it my whole life but have gotten better.  I keep reminding myself that everyone knows you never go full hermit. 

[babyducks]

My T has tried to help me understand that it was my uBPDxw's devaluation, emotional manipulation/abuse, lack of respect and consideration for any of my needs, and other behaviors that reflect her abandonment of the marriage and me.  I spent all my energy trying to hold it all together and finally ran out.

Thank you.   I really like this and plan to steal a-hem borrow it for further use.


I have never grieved anything like I grieved the end of this relationship.   I am still grieving to tell you the truth.    It's been the most powerful emotional experience I've ever had and so drawfs other experiences that I now consider them some how ~not normal~.

when something intrudes on that grief, it does sometimes startle me.    it feels some how abnormal... .


'ducks

[Mustbeabetterway]

Well, moving forward has lately brought teary moments for me, too.  I'm pretty much settled into living alone and enjoying the peace and independence, yet there is a feeling of something missing.  It reminds me of what I have read about amputees having pain from a missing limb.  It's (he's) not here, but I still feel him.

I'm not much of an isolator, so I have been getting out some with friends.  It feels weird not to be part of a couple when I was with him for so long (married 38 years).  I had some guilt at first when I had fun.  Like 'ducks says, the fun was intruding on my guilt.  My therapist says that's normal after an "oppressive" relationship.  

I became acquaintances with a man whose mom is in the same nursing home as mine.  We are both active people and we ended up exchanging numbers.  He texted and suggested we meet for coffee sometime.  I think I may be ready for that since I am settled on the impossibility of getting back together with my ex who is not getting any help for his problems.

 Like you, mw, I spent all of my energy trying to make things right.  Finally, I was forced to give up.  I had to surrender.  

But, just last night my husband texted that he loves me more than life itself (probably a drunken text at 1:40 am). But still there it is.

I would agree with babyducks, I have never grieved anything like I have grieved the end of my marriage.

You are not alone, mw.  We are right here with you.  Any social plans on the horizon?  I agree with OR, we have to push ourselves gently.  

Peace and many blessings,

Mustbe

[mama-wolf]

i also know that when we are exhausted, a crowd can be incredibly lonely. sometimes i hurt the most when i was laughing the hardest.

Yes, it's a very odd feeling to be so alone in a group of people.  And I don't really feel like I can show any of that truth to the people around me... .

Thank you.   I really like this and plan to steal a-hem borrow it for further use.

'ducks, I'm so glad you found something of value in what I said!  By all means, take whatever you need   It's still hard for me to see and acknowledge this truth about how my ex abandoned me, but I can at least understand the point my T is trying to make.

I have never grieved anything like I grieved the end of this relationship.   

when something intrudes on that grief, it does sometimes startle me.    it feels some how abnormal... .

Thank you for putting the sensation to words!  It's definitely feels abnormal from the perspective of enjoying myself in any small way while in the depths of this experience.

I had some guilt at first when I had fun.  Like 'ducks says, the fun was intruding on my guilt.  My therapist says that's normal after an "oppressive" relationship.  

Yes, I can accept that it's my ongoing guilt that's kicking in to shut down any enjoyment.  That, and I think some significant damage to my self-worth that's showing itself when I grapple with trying to understand why someone else is being nice/kind to me.

You are not alone, mw.  We are right here with you.  Any social plans on the horizon?  I agree with OR, we have to push ourselves gently.  

Well, I just got back from an overnight trip with my kids and my mom.  We went to the next state over to attend my cousin's wedding yesterday (her second husband).  That wasn't very fun for me.  It should have been encouraging to see her find love after leaving her abusive and controlling first husband, but watching my cousin and her new love in the ceremony was pretty uncomfortable.  S5 sat in my lap nearly the whole time, so it helped me to focus on him.  I teared up a bit (I can't honestly claim that they were happy tears for my cousin) but I was able to keep myself from breaking down entirely.

At this point, I'm completely exhausted and am getting ready to leave early tomorrow morning for a business trip to my company's annual meeting.  It is going to be a long week... .

mw

[once removed]

At this point, I'm completely exhausted and am getting ready to leave early tomorrow morning for a business trip to my company's annual meeting.  It is going to be a long week... .

youre gonna need to charge those batteries!

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi mw,

Weddings are difficult.  I can empathize.

Hope your trip goes well.  Enjoy your new work wardrobe.  Let us know how your week goes.

Mustbe

[mama-wolf]

youre gonna need to charge those batteries!

Yes, between the time change on Sunday and the 3-hour time difference between the East Coast and Las Vegas, I was awake at 3am this morning.  I did what I could to sleep longer, but gave up not long after 4am.

At least I like Vegas. Plenty of good food, and I'm seeing a lot of colleagues I haven't seen in a while.  More socializing at a time when that's difficult, but at least there is a little less pressure in the professional setting (established boundaries that I don't have to put a lot of extra energy into).  Plus, we're in one of the nicer hotels on the strip, and I really can't complain about the accommodations!

But I will definitely have to do some self-care both here at the meeting and over the weekend after I get home... .

mw