BPD and Intimacy

[billypilgrim]

My exBPD spoke of intimacy often, and would say that she was more intimate with me than she had ever been before - whatever that means.  But what is intimacy to them?  Is it some abstract concept that they've all heard and read about?  Is it something real that they feel but can't handle it for any extended period of time?  Do they/will they ever experience intimacy in a healthy way? 

Obviously it's not just intercourse since they all seem to give that away almost immediately to whoever is "nice" or "friendly" or whatever.  Obviously it's not emotional intimacy - mine told me multiple times during our relationship that she was "not in love with me" despite our marriage and wanting kids.  So what is it to them?  I guess as a decent follow up since we all seem to be in the same boat, what does healthy intimacy look like for us nons?

[Pingo]

Intimacy, for me, means showing who I really am, being open and vulnerable and trusting.  With this definition I was not truly intimate with my uBPDexh.  I couldn't be totally open, I was afraid to be totally vulnerable and there were trust issues both ways.  Much of what I thought was intimacy was intensity, especially at the beginning.

[Infared]

Intimacy, for me, means showing who I really am, being open and vulnerable and trusting.  With this definition I was not truly intimate with my uBPDexh.  I couldn't be totally open, I was afraid to be totally vulnerable and there were trust issues both ways.  Much of what I thought was intimacy was intensity, especially at the beginning.

Wow... .very well said. My experience was similar... .Now I realize that I only know  how emotionally open I was and how genuine my feelings were. I have no idea what was going on with her as I look back with what I now know. Never will. I do believe that there was much more depth in my commitment, feelings and honesty.

A lot of people have an unclear picture of what the word intimacy means:

in·ti·ma·cy

ˈin(t)əməsē/

noun

1.close familiarity or friendship; closeness.

"the intimacy between a husband and wife"

synonyms:   closeness, togetherness, affinity, rapport, attachment, familiarity, friendliness, friendship, amity, affection, warmth, confidence; informalchumminess

"the sisters reestablished their old intimacy"

2.a private cozy atmosphere.

"the room had a peaceful sense of intimacy about it"

3.an intimate act, especially sexual intercourse.

synonyms:   sexual relations, (sexual) intercourse, sex, lovemaking; datedcarnal knowledge; formalcopulation, (sexual) congress; technicalcoitus

I am discussing definition number 1... .the rest usually falls into place if that is attended to by both individuals. ... .i.e. Intimacy can be important to a close  friendship with someone or a love relationship.  There does not have to be any sex involved. That is the stuff that makes life worth living!

[HappyNihilist]

My exBPD spoke of intimacy often, and would say that she was more intimate with me than she had ever been before - whatever that means. 

My exBPDbf spoke of intimacy a lot, too, and said similar things. It was a very consistent theme for him throughout the r/s, and in comparisons with his past r/s's.

But what is intimacy to them?  Is it some abstract concept that they've all heard and read about?  Is it something real that they feel but can't handle it for any extended period of time?  Do they/will they ever experience intimacy in a healthy way? 

It's so hard to say, and of course there are no universals. Every person is unique. But intimacy is typically a big theme for pwBPD -- they both seek and fear it. Hence the push/pull.

For my ex, it seemed like intimacy was the ability to be vulnerable and let his guard down. He said it was terrifying. He said that it "gave me the power to crush his soul."

This fear, of course, is very triggering.

I guess as a decent follow up since we all seem to be in the same boat, what does healthy intimacy look like for us nons?

I don't think my ex's viewpoint of intimacy (as being yourself, and vulnerable, etc.) is that far off healthy, actually. The problem was in the execution for him and for us as a couple.

I think healthy intimacy definitely requires being emotionally comfortable with someone. One problem is that pwBPD don't have a secure sense of self -- when they drop their coping mechanisms, what are they left with? -- and vulnerability equals weakness and potential emotional death.

Healthy intimacy also is a give-take. You must accept the other person and allow them to feel emotionally comfortable with you. You must allow that person to be him/herself, without wanting to control in some way (rescuing included).

Are pwBPD capable of experiencing healthy intimacy? With treatment and self-awareness, I'm sure it's possible. Otherwise, while I think they may be able to recognize it, I don't think they're capable of achieving or sustaining it.

[harbour]

My ex described intimacy as being intensely near me, close. But he didn't really sense if it was mutual. He could feel intense closeness with me at a distance, when we were apart, and he would text me about it, how wonderful it was to be so near me, so close right now. He often talked about a constant deep yearning or craving for "melting together" with me. Not sexually. It is not uncommon or unhealthy to have that feeling in the love act. But sex was not important to him. He had this constant passion for the two of us to become one. "Melting together" was for him the ultimate intimacy. And that is not intimacy, of course. That is symbiosis. He once, in the very beginning, texted me something that made me shiver: "I think that you are worried that you will be seduced by my adoration, my attention and my gifts, by our mutual enriching talks and being together, so that you eventually don't know what is you and what is me."

I think maybe he is yearning for the healthy intimacy he might never have experienced. That is natural, I think. But all his terror of being abandoned and of being engulfed (push/pull) made it impossible.

We had moments of mutual intimacy. When he was at ease, relaxed and confident. They were very few, but great.

[peiper]

For me healthy intimacy is based on mutual trust. Trust in all aspects of the relationship. She was not up to it, which hurt because I did trust her. Or her facade anyway.

[clydegriffith]

I can't say i was every really "intimate" with the BPDx. It was always just rough crazy sex. On the times we would try to slow things down and be intimate or "make love' or whatever you want to call it, it just seemed so forced.

[HappyNihilist]

I can't say i was every really "intimate" with the BPDx. It was always just rough crazy sex. On the times we would try to slow things down and be intimate or "make love' or whatever you want to call it, it just seemed so forced.

As far as sex goes, my exbf and I were very similar, but I'm not complaining about that. I think rough crazy sex can be just as intimate as "making love" -- it all depends on the people involved. We've been talking more about intimacy overall, as a relationship concept. Bonding, if you will.

Sex is certainly a part of intimacy. But I agree with billypilgrim:

Obviously it's not just intercourse since they all seem to give that away almost immediately to whoever is "nice" or "friendly" or whatever.

Sex for a pwBPD often seems to have more of a transactional quality to it, as opposed to an expression of intimacy. They have sex to repay for attention... .to maintain control... .because they feel it's the only thing they have to offer... .etc. I think some "see" it as an intimate act, a way to connect, but it's problematic in execution. Often it seems like the sex wanes in a long-term relationship as the pwBPD has issues reconciling sex with emotional intimacy (splitting, virgin/___ complex, etc.) and/or fears the vulnerability that sex exposes in them (triggering engulfment/abandonment fears). (Or, for some, because they don't need to use it as a "hook" anymore.)

[billypilgrim]

Sex is certainly a part of intimacy. But I agree with billypilgrim:

Obviously it's not just intercourse since they all seem to give that away almost immediately to whoever is "nice" or "friendly" or whatever.

Sex for a pwBPD often seems to have more of a transactional quality to it, as opposed to an expression of intimacy. They have sex to repay for attention... .to maintain control... .because they feel it's the only thing they have to offer... .etc. I think some "see" it as an intimate act, a way to connect, but it's problematic in execution. Often it seems like the sex wanes in a long-term relationship as the pwBPD has issues reconciling sex with emotional intimacy (splitting, virgin/___ complex, etc.) and/or fears the vulnerability that sex exposes in them (triggering engulfment/abandonment fears). (Or, for some, because they don't need to use it as a "hook" anymore.)

It definitely started off very intense.  I confused the intensity of how she said she "connected with me more than she ever had with anyone else" with actual intimacy.  Cue the "best ever," "best lover," "best best best" comments that I'm sure she's used a hundred times over.  One of the things she said she loved about me was that I was the first guy that didn't view her as some sort of sex object.  The more I think back, the more I realize these little moments of clarity that she had about herself.  It was as if she was aware of certain problems with her behavior but she completely lacks the ability to do anything about it. 

But as you said, sex most definitely began to feel more transactional as the relationship went on.  How in the world could that sort of intensity that we had in the beginning last when no actual bonds are being made?  She would always feel so uncomfortable when we actually tried to make love.  It was always about the temporary release.  Which is exactly how she could be with someone else a month out, it's a transaction to them.  Not actual intimacy.

[Deeno02]

I dont know. Not to be crude, but with her 5 kids running around, I spent more time banging one out in the bathroom. And thats all it was. A bang. Once or twice a month the kids would be with their dad and we could be alone and even then it was me doing all the "giving". So one way it became boring.

[Painterly2014]

Mine thought that intimacy was sex and tried to fill all of his needs that way. He was never able to really connect emotionally.  At the end during one of our talks, he told me that he had never had a deep connection to anyone like what I described to him as missing in our r/s, and the thought of that happening scared him.  He said he wouldn't want someone that close to him and would want them out of his space. He said he preferred to have people at arms length... .except of course when he needed intimacy.   

[Infared]

Mine thought that intimacy was sex and tried to fill all of his needs that way. He was never able to really connect emotionally.  At the end during one of our talks, he told me that he had never had a deep connection to anyone like what I described to him as missing in our r/s, and the thought of that happening scared him.  He said he wouldn't want someone that close to him and would want them out of his space. He said he preferred to have people at arms length... .except of course when he needed intimacy.   

It's just like a dog chasing its tail!