I know I ask a lot of questions... but

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I am trying to make sense of some things.  I guess the fog is lifting.  When my dBPDexgf said to that she couldn't forgive me for x, y, and z.  What she really meant was she couldn't forgive herself? Is that right?  Or when she said she didn't trust me not to cheat or to leave the relationship, was it that she could't trust herself.  I just feel mixed up and I'm trying to make sense of things that she said.  And how about the blame? But she would only blame me.  She never took responsibility for anything.  I was just wondering. 

[WhoMe51]

I am trying to make sense of some things.  I guess the fog is lifting.  When my dBPDexgf said to that she couldn't forgive me for x, y, and z.  What she really meant was she couldn't forgive herself? Is that right?  Or when she said she didn't trust me not to cheat or to leave the relationship, was it that she could't trust herself.  I just feel mixed up and I'm trying to make sense of things that she said.  And how about the blame? But she would only blame me.  She never took responsibility for anything.  I was just wondering. 

[Elpis]

My uBPDh of many decades doesn't take responsibility for things either--maybe on the rare occasion, and then he regrets it! When I told him I left because of what he did, he told me that it was my previous trauma that made him do the stuff he did. Such fun thinking!

I don't know if we can ever really know what they meant by stuff, since i'm pretty sure they are sure either. It's true though that the pwBPD can often project their feelings onto others, and it's also important to remember that their biggest driving force is self-protection at the cost of all else really (including relationships, unfortunately) so they're gonna accuse sometimes of things they fear as well as projecting their own feelings onto us. It's pretty complicated!

[DangIthurts]

I think the worst thing you can do is go over what they're saying it can change at any moment and can mean anything because its inside them. Think about the stuff you neglect to mention to a partner for whatever reason, things they wonder but will never know. This is their entire life, you have no idea what's REALLY going on with them.

Now as someone whose far from detached I'm at a point where I'm not going over everything she says because just like the new smiles and perfection of others are fake, its best not to over analyze why, but look and see what and where you want all this to go. Only you can decide.

Personally the thing I hate most is regardless if and when I got painted black I have lots of regret about not finding this site prior, instead of letting my own frustration get the best of me. Which is one reason I'd probably go back, not that I think she's the type to do that. But you really need to look at you and your motivations in life and with this and decide the best course of action. Analyzing her, worrying about what and who she's with serves absolutely no purpose to helping you.

[Infared]

My uBPDh of many decades doesn't take responsibility for things either--maybe on the rare occasion, and then he regrets it! When I told him I left because of what he did, he told me that it was my previous trauma that made him do the stuff he did. Such fun thinking!

I don't know if we can ever really know what they meant by stuff, since i'm pretty sure they are sure either. It's true though that the pwBPD can often project their feelings onto others, and it's also important to remember that their biggest driving force is self-protection at the cost of all else really (including relationships, unfortunately) so they're gonna accuse sometimes of things they fear as well as projecting their own feelings onto us. It's pretty complicated!

Oh yes... .it is quite wonderful blameless thinking and actions on their part... ."it's your fault that I cheated on you"... HUH?... ."I didn't know that this was going to happen"? Oh... .it happened to her... I see... .she was just an innocent victim... .she didn't participate... .oh... .I see? ... .and on and on and on... .

[enlighten me]

Asking questions and finding answers helps in the healing process. We have all been dealing with a totally alien way of thinking and learning to understand this helps with our own sanity.

pwBPD rsrely take responsibility so we always end up being blamed. They are also terrible at explaining what they are feeling so we get the mixed messages and yhe projection. They do wsnt to be honest but are scared that we wont like what they say so we get the veiled confessions where someone else has said or done something or it is put as a question I.e whstwould you do if I did... .

The best thing in my opinion is use your judgement for each. The I dont trust you is one a lot of us have heard. My ooinion is my ex was saying dont trust me as I will hurt you.

Anything they say that is obviously not what you are like is either projection or fear. The fear then becomes fact.

You dont love me is a classic. You know you love them but no matter what you say or do they dont believe you. Their fear that you dont love them becomes fact in their mind.

Its a mess and the more I understand the more I realise that there are somethings that I doubt my ex could even explain.

[Infared]

Asking questions and finding answers helps in the healing process. We have all been dealing with a totally alien way of thinking and learning to understand this helps with our own sanity.

pwBPD rsrely take responsibility so we always end up being blamed. They are also terrible at explaining what they are feeling so we get the mixed messages and yhe projection. They do wsnt to be honest but are scared that we wont like what they say so we get the veiled confessions where someone else has said or done something or it is put as a question I.e whstwould you do if I did... .

The best thing in my opinion is use your judgement for each. The I dont trust you is one a lot of us have heard. My ooinion is my ex was saying dont trust me as I will hurt you.

Anything they say that is obviously not what you are like is either projection or fear. The fear then becomes fact.

You dont love me is a classic. You know you love them but no matter what you say or do they dont believe you. Their fear that you dont love them becomes fact in their mind.

Its a mess and the more I understand the more I realise that there are somethings that I doubt my ex could even explain.

Well enlighten, what you are saying is that I have to be a "mind-reader" to have a chance with a BPD and then it still probably won't work.  Perhaps they could pass us a note when we meet them that states "I have BPD and if you want to date me you will have to read my mind if you want to communicate with me on any significant level".

LOL!  

[enlighten me]

Mind reading would be good. Unfortunately I still think there would be times when you wouldnt have a clue whats going on in such a disordered mind.

[guy4caligirl]

I think the worst thing you can do is go over what they're saying it can change at any moment and can mean anything because its inside them. Think about the stuff you neglect to mention to a partner for whatever reason, things they wonder but will never know. This is their entire life, you have no idea what's REALLY going on with them.

Now as someone whose far from detached I'm at a point where I'm not going over everything she says because just like the new smiles and perfection of others are fake, its best not to over analyze why, but look and see what and where you want all this to go. Only you can decide.

Personally the thing I hate most is regardless if and when I got painted black I have lots of regret about not finding this site prior, instead of letting my own frustration get the best of me. Which is one reason I'd probably go back, not that I think she's the type to do that. But you really need to look at you and your motivations in life and with this and decide the best course of action. Analyzing her, worrying about what and who she's with serves absolutely no purpose to helping you.

Yes indeed !

[enlighten me]

Its a bit different when you have kids together.

The more you understand the better you can protect yourself and more importantly the children.

If you have no attachment then take a leaf out of a friends book and accept she has mental helth issues and walk away at that.

[Elpis]

The bad bit for me is that when we're used to getting so little in terms of truth, relationship, etc. we can easily become thrilled at the smallest things--like I just wrote in my newest thread, after 9 or 10 years of trying to get my uBPDh to put his piles of tools etc away from a section of the unusable front room where i'd get a huge anger tantrum from him over it now that I've been out of the house since February he's just sent me a picture where he's so proud of himself for cleaning that section up. ? It didn't matter while I was there, but now?

The need to understand is a bit different from person to person even. I'm one of those who loves psychology and trying to understand where people's idiosyncrasies come from, so I have to watch out for letting that take me away from taking care of myself. For someone else, knowing as little as possible is the best policy, just beat feet. It has helped me to know that whatever is going on with our pwBPD it's about them. It's about protecting themselves from possible abandonment, it's about making sure they get their needs taken care of. They may never actually feel like they've gotten enough from us, but they'll surely try!

And yup, being linked to them with children (and for me grandchildren too) makes the relationship something a person has to learn how to deal with, especially when the kids are young. 

[WhoMe51]

Thanks for the replies.  I guess I am just trying to make sense of something that can't be understood. 

[seeking balance]

I am trying to make sense of some things.  I guess the fog is lifting. 

Be patient, this takes time and the fog is in layers... .

Questions are good - try to stay focused on the facts of the disorder rather than black/white thinking that many people find themselves doing when they get here too.  This is a spectrum disorder.

When my dBPDexgf said to that she couldn't forgive me for x, y, and z.  What she really meant was she couldn't forgive herself? Is that right? 

without context, this is a guessing game that is going to leave you totally frustrated. 

pwBPD have very intense feelings and these feelings sometimes become facts or reality for them.  A key word to remember is their perception (not reality necessarily). 

The example you give is projection.  This is a maladaptive coping technique induced by shame often.  However, that may or may not be what happened in your example, it could be a perceived abandonment fear that you are not privy to knowing.

Or when she said she didn't trust me not to cheat or to leave the relationship, was it that she could't trust herself. 

Again, maybe this is a projection or maybe it was her very real abandonment fear triggered.  Again, her actions & words are likely based on a perception, not necessarily reality, thus it is very difficult for you to know for sure what is going on... .what you know for sure is that your reality does not match hers and it is making you a bit nuts too ;-)

I just feel mixed up and I'm trying to make sense of things that she said.  And how about the blame? But she would only blame me.  She never took responsibility for anything.  I was just wondering. 

Taking responsibility is a trait that emotionally mature people have - many people that are not BPD are horrible at taking responsibility for the record.

With BPD, shame is intense - all or nothing - black/white thinking.  So what you think is a simple apology, to a pwBPD that apology is like saying "I am all bad and horrible person". 

pwBPD live with emotional chaos that you only are seeing a small part of - it is like an iceberg, a lot more is going on under the surface than you have any idea about.

Keep asking questions, refer to the facts when you get confused - the facts are pretty clear when we are able to take our own emotion out of it.  For the record, by the time you actually understand all this - you will know more than most T's... .sad, but true.  This disorder is still very much misunderstood.

Another tip, read up on DBT, by understanding the treatment, I was able to understand the disorder in much greater detail not to mention those skills are amazing for everyone.

Best,

SB

[DangIthurts]

Thanks for the replies.  I guess I am just trying to make sense of something that can't be understood. 

Like someone told you its not wrong to wanna know heck I'd pay a ton to know the real meanings . I know my comment was just like being able to accept it as a lost cause is something I'm truly grateful for. I'm not worried about replacements, what she's doing, who she's with, or the sporadic comments and their hidden meanings.

I'm mostly distraught over the fact that had I know about this site I could have done things infinitely different and now its too late, and I'll only know if someone tells me that she's hurting. Those things are beating me bad... But I'm grateful to not worry too much about anything else.

[Mutt]

Thanks for the replies.  I guess I am just trying to make sense of something that can't be understood.  

Hi WhoMe51,

You have a wealth of solid advice. Don't apologize for asking questions. Keep asking and probing.

A pwBPD has a distorted belief system. Analyzing this and coming to a conclusive answer for motivations from a person that's mentally ill, from a non-distorted perspective is impossible if you ask me.

It's a guessing game and when I get frustrated trying to decipher words that were said or actions from my ex that baffles me, I think of Churchill and what he said about Russia in WWII.

I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

I let it go when it's complex and unhealthy. BPD is a serious disorder and I cannot forecast or understand a belief system that's distorted. It's speculation.

Understanding the behaviors I think is important as it helps with untangling our confusion. It also helps to depersonalize these behaviors by learning about the disorder. I hope that helps.


--Mutt