pwBPD's ability to compromise

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Just wondering if this is a BPD thing... .

It seems my uBPDw is unable to compromise on most things.

So for instance we've discussed our Christmas plans, and we're going to stick around our house "open house" style.

A little background, it's both our second marriages, my w had kids, most her siblings didn't, so this is basically the way she celebrated Christmas before we got married.  My sister would usually 'host' Christmas (after our parents couldn't do it).  So our Christmas would be to open family gifts in the morning and then head to her house after lunch for the rest of the day.

First few years we'd spend most the time at our house.  Her side would show up but at some point we'd head over to spend some time at my sisters.  Each year it would be less time, but we'd get over there for part of the day.  Our kids are now older, my w's siblings don't do big crowds well so this year we've said we'll stay home.

Except she brings it up as a topic of conversation 3-4 times a week... .It takes 10-15 minutes before we can get to the point where she says she's bringing it up because she feels guilty about it.  It's usually 30 seconds later she'll start to get angry with me because I would rather "be with your family instead of with me".  Once we get here it's downhill, since SET doesn't seem to quiet her much.

It comes up in a lot of different situations... .in the non-BPD world I'd describe it as unable to agree to dis-agree or more severely - control freaky (talking and agreeing on a compromise isn't acceptable... .I have to want what she wants me to want).

It doesn't seem to fit BPD totally, but the need to express & 'fix' any and all negative feelings is certainly at the core.

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[maxsterling]

I think this goes along with black and white thinking.  A compromise is when two or more parties in a conflict come together and give up a little for the purpose of a mutual positive gain.  If you think only in black and white, giving up anything is a loss.   

I can't think of a single time my W and I have truly compromised in a healthy way on anything significant.  If anything results from a conflict, it usually involves one of us proposing something that the other agrees with.  There's never been an "I will agree to this if you agree to that" type of situation.  Any time anything resembling a compromise occurs, she brings it up again, either claiming she is cowering to me, that I am controlling, or using my part of the decision to blame me entirely.

For example, our wedding.  Many decisions were mutual, but none were true compromises.  If something went wrong (and it did) it was my fault because she claimed I made the wrong decision.  My wife also has extreme difficulties in making decisions of any kind (including what to order at a restaurant), and I think it is because she doesn't want to take ownership of her role should things not work out.  When we hired a caterer for the wedding, W became frustrated and took it out on the caterer who eventually backed out on us.  W tried to claim that was in part on me not being "assertive" enough, or not making decisions about food.  I was then tasked with finding a new caterer.  I frantically called around, got someone to meet with us, we met together, both decided he would work for us, and yet when he didn't return our email within 24 hours, W was mad claiming that she asked me to find a new caterer and I had found the wrong one.   

One thing that I have found helps in reaching decisions with her is to not offer her unlimited options.  Give her A and B, and ask what she likes better.  If I ask "where do you want to eat", she gets frustrated and then asks me to pick some place.  I get a better response by asking, "I was thinking about eating either at A or B, how does that sound to you?"

[TheRealJongoBong]

Except she brings it up as a topic of conversation 3-4 times a week... .It takes 10-15 minutes before we can get to the point where she says she's bringing it up because she feels guilty about it.  It's usually 30 seconds later she'll start to get angry with me because I would rather "be with your family instead of with me".  Once we get here it's downhill, since SET doesn't seem to quiet her much.

She starts out being upset and doesn't know why. After a while she figures out why she's upset - that she feels guilty. It then takes approximately 30 seconds to project that guilt onto you because she can't deal with it.

Compromise takes acceptance that you can't get everything you want and that the compromise usually goes against your feelings. BPD seems to have problems with both of these.

[hope2727]

Mine told me "I don't believe in compromise. That is just one person not getting their way!" 

Umm think in black and white much? 

He also couldn't comprehend having mixed feelings. To him it was either A or B. Very tough to live with. Very immature.

[formflier]

 I have to want what she wants me to want).  

       There is a big picture to focus on here.  And "gently" but firmly stand your ground that your feelings are different than hers.  If your measurement of success is that she is ok with it, it's not going to work.  If your measurement is that you continue to have your own separate feelings/decisions, then you can succeed.    My wife and I have compromised some on things that happen "right now".  ":)eals" have been disastrous (where is Grey Kitty to chuckle at me when I need it, ) if I don't get my part first.  We'll do this now (which wife wants) and then do my stuff next week usually falls apart because "circumstances" change.  Mysteriously my wife seems to be a puppet master to make the circumstances change, or she tells kids they can do something that conflicts and then claims she "forgot".  This puts kids in position of having to "give up" their thing to do mine.  If only Daddy were more understanding,     Truely it has been getting better, as I don't make deals with my part in the future anymore.    If it is something important to you, set a deadline.  "If we haven't reached a mutually satisfying agreement by Friday on what roof color to go with, I will proceed with the project."  Or something like that.        

FF

[waverider]

We always had this nightmare until we found a work around. Each year now we go away for the week before xmas and come back on boxing day. xmas day is just us on our own somewhere quiet. I get up at dawn, go fishing and hopefully come back with fish for two for xmas lunch. Helps xmas is in summer in Aus.

Cuts out all the last minute shopping too. Everywhere is quiet as everyone else is at home stressing over xmas. We then have post xmas catch ups once we get back

Her FOO didn't like it at first as it broke with family protocol, but they got over it

[waverider]

If it is something important to you, set a deadline.  "If we haven't reached a mutually satisfying agreement by Friday on what roof color to go with, I will proceed with the project."

This is a useful tool, make specific actions or decision a default, so if there are no real objections somethings happens, otherwise you end up living in "pending decison" mode and nothing happens

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

If it is something important to you, set a deadline.  "If we haven't reached a mutually satisfying agreement by Friday on what roof color to go with, I will proceed with the project."

This is a useful tool, make specific actions or decision a default, so if there are no real objections somethings happens, otherwise you end up living in "pending decison" mode and nothing happens

This has worked at times (unless worked=peace... .then it's another ball game).

I just have to work on walking away afterwards when she complains I'm treating her like a child, or not like a wife, or not as good as my ex, or all the other buttons she tries to push afterwards.

[flourdust]

If it is something important to you, set a deadline.  "If we haven't reached a mutually satisfying agreement by Friday on what roof color to go with, I will proceed with the project."

This is a useful tool, make specific actions or decision a default, so if there are no real objections somethings happens, otherwise you end up living in "pending decison" mode and nothing happens

This is exactly what I do. My BPDw often can't make decisions. Worse yet, when we do meet to talk about decisions, she'll frequently derail the conversation to various criticisms of me or just dysregulate. This happens even with simple stuff like planning what we're going to have for dinner during the week.

I give her a chance to contribute to the decision-making, and then I go ahead and do it myself. She hates it and says we never plan and never communicate ... .and she's not incorrect. But, while we may not plan or communicate, at least we eat.

[TheRealJongoBong]

This is exactly what I do. My BPDw often can't make decisions. Worse yet, when we do meet to talk about decisions, she'll frequently derail the conversation to various criticisms of me or just dysregulate. This happens even with simple stuff like planning what we're going to have for dinner during the week.

This reminds me of my experience with getting a new range for our kitchen.  Our range has had a broken cook top for several years. I initiated the process of trying to get a new one for about two years. At first when I brought up the topic it made her anxiety go way up, not because of the money - because of the new. About six months ago she finally decided that the range was getting to bad as two burners didn't work, and asked if I would take care of the whole thing. I did my research and picked a range, but because I'm not a fool I told her about my selection process and the range I chose. This milestone caused another bout of anxiety so she decided to go look at ranges herself (even though I'm "supposed" to pick the thing out). In a couple of weeks this slowly morphed into her and I going to several appliance stores and looking at many many ranges. I let her have complete control over what she wanted and still she would make no decision. Finally after we had cut the choices down to three she got the idea that we would make it one of my birthday presents so that I could make the final decision. I picked one of the three (probably a little to quickly as it did make her more nervous) and we finally bought one last week.

The same thing happened when I was supposed to buy "my" car, but that's another story.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Reminds me of the 3 month search for new address numbers for our house... .in the end I put up the old numbers.

I have to bite my tongue when she says we should build a new house, with all the decisions that comes with that.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I think the real problem with the ability to compromise is that it requires vulnerability. You have to be vulnerable when you compromise because if something goes wrong you will have to share in the responsibility. My uBPD wife, and probably other pwBPD, have a lot of trouble accepting responsibility. Accepting responsibility means accepting the chance of failure and failure means abandonment.

This idea came up with my wife and I during MC when we were discussing making decisions.  When my wife wants to do something she will typically ask me ":)o you want to do X?" as opposed to "I want to do X, would you like to do that?" As we were working through this she came to the revelation that her question ":)o you want to do X?" places her in a less vulnerable position than the other. If I say yes then she wins. If I say no, she still wins because she can paint me the bad guy for not wanting to do it.

[Icthelight]

This idea came up with my wife and I during MC when we were discussing making decisions.  When my wife wants to do something she will typically ask me ":)o you want to do X?" as opposed to "I want to do X, would you like to do that?" As we were working through this she came to the revelation that her question ":)o you want to do X?" places her in a less vulnerable position than the other. If I say yes then she wins. If I say no, she still wins because she can paint me the bad guy for not wanting to do it.

This is very interesting. I never looked at it this way.

This may also explain why my uBPDw gets upset or irritated with me when I come back with "but what do you want to do?" My response isn't to try to be blameless or worrying about being wrong, I ask her what she wants, to be polite. I didn't understand what the big deal was in me asking and why she got upset or irritated. When I did this, I recall her saying something to the effect of, I want you to make decisions. As the head of the family, I want you to make decisions for us. For big decisions, I understand. However, for trivial things, I never understood what the big deal was.

[maxsterling]

I think the real problem with the ability to compromise is that it requires vulnerability. You have to be vulnerable when you compromise because if something goes wrong you will have to share in the responsibility. My uBPD wife, and probably other pwBPD, have a lot of trouble accepting responsibility. Accepting responsibility means accepting the chance of failure and failure means abandonment.

This idea came up with my wife and I during MC when we were discussing making decisions.  When my wife wants to do something she will typically ask me ":)o you want to do X?" as opposed to "I want to do X, would you like to do that?" As we were working through this she came to the revelation that her question ":)o you want to do X?" places her in a less vulnerable position than the other. If I say yes then she wins. If I say no, she still wins because she can paint me the bad guy for not wanting to do it.

I cannot agree more with this assessment.  My wife defers to me to make nearly every decision.  She rarely states what she wants before asking me what I want, no matter how trivial the decision.  My conclusion is exactly the same as yours - she does not want to be vulnerable if I disagree, nor does she want to take ownership for a decision that may not work out.  If she suggests a restaurant and it's bad, it's on her.  If she asks me and she agrees with me and the restaurant is bad, the blame is on me.  In the 3 years I have been with her, I can't think of too many times where she has stated what she wants and gone about doing it.  I'd love it if she came to me one Saturday and said, "I want to go to the museum today.  Do you want to come with me?"  Instead, I get, "what do you want to do today?" If I tell her of all the chores I need to finish, she gets dejected and blames me for her having a boring life.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

My wife can do the same thing... .I try and explain the way to communicate is to each say what they would like, then come up with some sort of solution that both agree to... .

She wants to get all the information before stating what she would like... .Actually, if I say I like restaurant X and she doesn't like it, then we do a whole dance where she tells me everything wrong with restaurant X (but not that she'd rather go to restaurant Y). 

It's a whole process to guide me to the "right" decision... .