Never asking the right question

[ApChagi1]

I really struggle with how to ask my BPD wife about her feelings.  For example, if I ask, "Are you feeling ok?" her answer is often, "I don't know how to answer that question."  If I ask, "How are you feeling?" she usually replies, "How do you think I'm feeling?"

I can tell she is hurting and upset about something, but I don't know how to ask about it without it becoming the start to a fight, usually about some egregious wrong I have commited, like not knowing she had a bad dream I should have known she had. 

Any suggestions? I'm drowning here . . .

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[DyingLove]

I really struggle with how to ask my BPD wife about her feelings.  For example, if I ask, "Are you feeling ok?" her answer is often, "I don't know how to answer that question."  If I ask, "How are you feeling?" she usually replies, "How do you think I'm feeling?"

I can tell she is hurting and upset about something, but I don't know how to ask about it without it becoming the start to a fight, usually about some egregious wrong I have commited, like not knowing she had a bad dream I should have known she had. 

Any suggestions? I'm drowning here . . .

Hi ApChagi1,

I really feel for you. Until I discovered BPD I was in total confusion most of the time with my significant other. Is it better? I'm not sure,, it is what it is. But I do know for certain that we can go from nice day to whirlwind in about three seconds. Several days ago I asked my significant other how she was feeling, and that triggered her. We went into a never ending circular "question rodeo" that lasted hours. I still haven't figured out the rules when asking something,, because nearly anything, a happy thought or non-happy thought can trigger a BPD episode. Yep, I guess they're hurting somewhere inside, and aside from trying to diagnose and figure it out on our own, we may never be told by them. I know I haven't. Just by asking her how she was triggered a battle. Then, I think the day after, she was having what she called a panic attack, which I remained calm through, it was in the car, and I was there for her. Well wouldn't you know because I didn't ask her how she was or jump to the proper attention mode, another stellar battle began. Remember that saying: damned if you do damned if you don't. It really starts to make a lot of sense when referred to BPD.

Well don't drown! Hold your hand up high, and somebody here will reach out and pull you out of your sinking ship into a dry liferaft. I am playing teeter tottering now: one side she sits on and one side I sit on. When we go up, I try to be there for her and give her as much support and love is I can... .  when we go down, I try to recuperate from the episode of being there for her. It's almost like it all seems to be about them,, or the BPD. I'm not giving up, but I'm always treading water and it's scary because I can't swim. Hang in there and keep talking. Read a lot through these forums and posts, you'll obviously find that you're not alone when it comes to anything.

By the way, I tried something new last week,, I actually wrote questions and statements down to hand her versus talking. I thought maybe the sound of my voice irritated her, but writing it down started something totally new. I thought she was going to swat the pad right out of my hands against the wall. Instead she became hot and initiated meltdown. Just my two cents. HUGS!

[ApChagi1]

Thanks for the input. . .I really am close to giving up.  Deep down inside I know she is a wonderful person, but that has been so buried I don't feel like it will ever show itself again.   

I see my own therapist and psychiatrist because the daily crushing stress of this has made me very depressed. 

There is an attorney in the building next door to me at work who specializes in BPD divorce cases and I have to fight with myself almost daily to not walk over to his office. 

[DyingLove]

Thanks for the input. . .I really am close to giving up.  Deep down inside I know she is a wonderful person, but that has been so buried I don't feel like it will ever show itself again.   

I see my own therapist and psychiatrist because the daily crushing stress of this has made me very depressed. 

There is an attorney in the building next door to me at work who specializes in BPD divorce cases and I have to fight with myself almost daily to not walk over to his office. 

How long have you guys been married? And how do you feel about her, I see you know she's a wonderful person, but how about the love?

I can definitely relate to your depression and stress. It is very very real. Do you get sent back to the point where you find it hard to function on a daily basis? Do you find yourself also spending most of your time walking on eggshells or recovering from how the BPD makes you feel?

I haven't reached a point of no return, but I can hear and understand you are overwhelming frustration. Do you actually have your mind set already as far as divorce goes? In other words what I mean is are you just looking for some feedback that will help you realize you're going in the right direction? That's a big decision you have to make there and I wouldn't even know where to start with the divorce. My significant other is basically just that a significant other/girlfriend. I like to think of her as my wife, although that has its own set of thoughts.

I hope you keep posting, I'm interested to know how everything is going with you, and how you are feeling. Tell me if I'm wrong, you sound angry. I'm not saying that angry is wrong, I'm just asking because it sounds that way. Does your wife have any comments or input on where your marriage is going? Are you at the point where you just have to look out for you because no one else is? Sounds like you need to get away at least for a while,, don't make any rash decisions. Man it sounds like you need people to talk to, and I think it's good that you are here. His a lot of people out here that know a lot of stuff. Even if it's just an ear or a shoulder you need, it's here also. I'm wishing you the best right now, and I hope to hear more from you about what's going on and how you are. Best wishes of course,,

[tuli]

Yes.  I have a suggestion.  I have been through the same thing, and I know what you are going through. 

Our borderline therapist taught me this and it worked for us because it sidesteps the circular blame thing nicely.  You could try saying, "You seem unhappy (sad, upset).  Is there something I can do to help?" 

Of course if she screams, "How am I supposed to know?  You are useless" type thing, then it would be time to schedule a sit down with her to discuss the rules of a healthy relationship and you would need to explain that even though you would like to fix everything for her, it is not healthy and you would be happy to help her identify what she needs from you to make her feel better, and then you'll try to do what she needs if you can, but she has to tell you what she needs. 

She will push at this boundary until she realizes you are solid.  Then she will mercifully stop.  Or at least that was my experience.

[ApChagi1]

Thanks both Tuli and DyingLove.  We have been married almost 6 years.

That is a good suggestion, Tuli, about saying, "You seem . . ."  Do you see a therapist together?  We each see our own separately, hers focuses on DBT and mine mostly helps to vent and learn better ways for me to respond to her behaviors. 

Until recently, my wife would really flip out at me after every time I had my own therapist appointment, telling me how messed up I am and how messed up my family life growing up was.  (For the record,  I had a very stable family environment with two parents growing up where she was raised by a single mother.  I think she does lots of "projecting" on my childhood when really I have nothing but happy memories of it.)  Anyway, I would get home from my therapy visits and tell her about it and get yelled at about how I talked about all the wrong things and I'm not taking it seriously. 

However, her therapist has since said she is no longer to ask me about my sessions.  Which has been WONDERFUL. 

[tuli]

Apchagi:

Yay, it is so wonderful that you guys have a therapist that puts up boundaries!  Good for you.  I have found, strangely, that when I do the work on myself and get clear for me that his behavior is ridiculous and that I am a grown person and that I am taking this person's accusations seriously, that he stops doing the behavior.  I am now convinced that subconciously, he knows exactly how much I will take, and he pushes the behavior according to me, not him. 

I love having the same therapist as my husband.  We have separate sessions and then about once a month see her together.  My husband knows our therapist would never allow him to be abusive to me, and that I would tell her if he tried to pull something like that on me.  It's a great safety net.  Plus I have some PTSD, and she is helping greatly with it.  We are lucky specialized BPD help is now available. 

[waverider]

 

Our borderline therapist taught me this and it worked for us because it sidesteps the circular blame thing nicely.  You could try saying, "You seem unhappy (sad, upset).  Is there something I can do to help?" 

This is good because it at first acknowledges you have noticed without making assumptions. Then you are asking what YOU can do, you are not asking her to do anything.

Her answers then would lead along the lines, of no not really, or yes you could stop doing xyz that is peeing her off. It is harder to respond with a "what do you think?" to that. (not impossible, but not obvious).

Generally best not push for responses, just leave an opening to volunteer something.

Nothing works all of the time though.!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi ApChagi1!

In my experience with my dBPDbf, it's best not to say anything at all. Any kind of question alluding to him being "off" or out of sorts will dysregulate him. It took me quite a while to really get this, because in a more healthy relationship it would be normal to show concern for your partner if you think that she/he is feeling down.

However, my bf finally explained (well, more yelled) that me commenting on or asking anything about his moods makes him feel like there is something wrong with him and that yet again he isn't behaving "like a normal person". So basically he feels I'm attacking him for being weird or "nor normal". Borderline logic popping up there... .  So now I just let him be. If he wants to talk to me about it, he knows where I am.

And to be clear, phrases that would send him off includes any variation of the following:

- What's wrong? (This may be way too hard to answer for pwBPD as they have difficulties pinning down and interpreting their emotions)

- You seem far away. What's on your mind?

- You seem troubled/unhappy/sad... .  (pause for response)

- Is there something troubling/upsetting you/making you sad today?

- It seems to me, and of course I may be completely wrong, that you are troubled/unhappy/sad. If that's the case, what can I do?

- Hey, I just wanted to say that if you're troubled/unhappy/sad and there's anything I can do to, let me know

- You seem to be troubled/unhappy/sad and like you might want some time alone. Am I correct in assuming this?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Just wanna add one thing: It's also much healthier for me not to focus so much on how he's feeling and just detaching from it. It doesn't mean I don't love him or don't care about him. I do care and if he wants to talk I try to validate and be present. But I don't actively try to figure out his moods any more or comment on it or ask about it or change my behaviour to try to make him feel better. Is that something you've thought about? It's not your responsibility to make her feel good.

[DyingLove]

Hi ApChagi1!

In my experience with my dBPDbf, it's best not to say anything at all. Any kind of question alluding to him being "off" or out of sorts will dysregulate him. It took me quite a while to really get this, because in a more healthy relationship it would be normal to show concern for your partner if you think that she/he is feeling down.

However, my bf finally explained (well, more yelled) that me commenting on or asking anything about his moods makes him feel like there is something wrong with him and that yet again he isn't behaving "like a normal person". So basically he feels I'm attacking him for being weird or "nor normal". Borderline logic popping up there... .  So now I just let him be. If he wants to talk to me about it, he knows where I am.

And to be clear, phrases that would send him off includes any variation of the following:

- What's wrong? (This may be way too hard to answer for pwBPD as they have difficulties pinning down and interpreting their emotions)

- You seem far away. What's on your mind?

- You seem troubled/unhappy/sad... .  (pause for response)

- Is there something troubling/upsetting you/making you sad today?

- It seems to me, and of course I may be completely wrong, that you are troubled/unhappy/sad. If that's the case, what can I do?

- Hey, I just wanted to say that if you're troubled/unhappy/sad and there's anything I can do to, let me know

- You seem to be troubled/unhappy/sad and like you might want some time alone. Am I correct in assuming this?

BINGO!  Yep... .  what's wrong sends her into battle mode.  Thank you!

[ApChagi1]

Such great advice!  I really do need to learn how to detach.  It's so hard because I can "feel" her waiting for me to ask something that will light the fuse on the powder keg and justify the explosion it causes. 

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Ah, the wonders of detaching!

It's taken me a long time to get there but it's definitely a better place to be. I'm not successful all the time, sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm needy. I try to be mindful of my own feelings and ask myself why I need to know if he's upset or stressed or sad or tired or angry or purple or a green little man! Mostly it's because I need assurance that he loves me. Probably stemming from my previous life experiences and the emotionally brutal situations I've lived with my dBPDbf. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that it's causing me harm because of my previous experiences ("my stuff".

She might be waiting for you to ask just so she can have an outlet for her anger and someone to blame for it. Or it might be coming from you because you want to "fix" her. Anyway, it comes down to "my stuff", "your stuff". If she needs to went and needs to blame someone that's for her to fix (or not fix and just live with it as is). If you spend your time "feeling" her and being too enmeshed with her, that's your problem and for you to fix.

[almost789]

Whats wrong? Definitly will cause a backlash. They dont know whats wrong and furthermore they take it personal as if theres something wrong with them. They want you to read their mind. Im serious. They want you to be attuned to what they need and want without them expressing it because they cant and they dont even know.  The one thing I ever said to my pwBPD during one of his silent treatments that he seemed to take well. I said, i know i hurt you ( when i left him coldly and not kindly) and i know you are angry with me. He liked this. I think i got that one right.

[briefcase]

Detaching works wonders and Scarlett Phoenix expresses it well.  It's life changing stuff, but takes some effort and practice to achieve.  It helps if you realize that your spouse has a right to their own feelings--even if you can't understand where they come from or what triggered them.  At the same time, you have the same right to your own feelings.  It's not your job to manage their feelings for them--that's their job.  But, you have to be comfortable with them having strong emotions. 

[Pugman]

Ah, the wonders of detaching!

It's taken me a long time to get there but it's definitely a better place to be. I'm not successful all the time, sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm needy. I try to be mindful of my own feelings and ask myself why I need to know if he's upset or stressed or sad or tired or angry or purple or a green little man! Mostly it's because I need assurance that he loves me. Probably stemming from my previous life experiences and the emotionally brutal situations I've lived with my dBPDbf. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that it's causing me harm because of my previous experiences ("my stuff".

She might be waiting for you to ask just so she can have an outlet for her anger and someone to blame for it. Or it might be coming from you because you want to "fix" her. Anyway, it comes down to "my stuff", "your stuff". If she needs to went and needs to blame someone that's for her to fix (or not fix and just live with it as is). If you spend your time "feeling" her and being too enmeshed with her, that's your problem and for you to fix.

This is all great stuff. I am learning from reading these every day. I have a question though, my uBPDw often will get really upset if I don't acknowledge that she is upset. She is probably just looking for an outlet like you say, but when I don't give her that out, it ends up blowing up and causing problems. I guess it is her problem to fix, but any suggestions on how to respond?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

This is all great stuff. I am learning from reading these every day. I have a question though, my uBPDw often will get really upset if I don't acknowledge that she is upset. She is probably just looking for an outlet like you say, but when I don't give her that out, it ends up blowing up and causing problems. I guess it is her problem to fix, but any suggestions on how to respond?

Hi 

Yes, it's for her to learn how to regulate her own emotions. She might never achieve this, or she might realise something's not right and eventually seek out therapy. Most don't.

What you can do, is two things.

1. Start by validating her feelings. "oh, ok, I undertand" "I can see this is really upsetting you" etc. This might calm her down if she feels she is heard. There are great lessons here on validating and invalidating.

2. If she explodes anyway, enforce your boundaries. Your boundaries are for you, not for her. They go hand in hand with your values. For example:

- My value: I don't think it's right to yell at people and call them horrible names and put them down, so I don't do that.

- My boundary: I will not stay in the same room/house with someone who yells at me, calls me names or puts me down.

When that happens, I leave. Eventually he calms down and calls me. Sometimes we talk about what happened, sometimes it's just "I'm calm now. So, are you coming home?"

It's not easy and takes time getting used to - for us and for them! Expect resistance and worse behaviour when you start changing. It will get better over time!