She is still at home and I don't want her to go.

[Depression_or_bpd]

Hi All,

My wife has been recently diagnosed with PTSD, anxeity and depression. I knew about depression for a long time, even before we got married and I believe she has BPD. I know labels don’t matter as there is a lot similarities.

Last Sunday, Feb 24th, we had a small argument which ended up with me telling her to leave the house as soon as he finds the job and we will get separated.

This is what led to the argument. We woke up around 9AM and I wanted to watch a soccer game which started at 8:30AM. So I told her that I am going to watch the game and it will finish by 10:15AM, by the time we freshen up and have breakfast. I always make our breakfast.

She got upset that I told her and didn't ask her that "is it ok with you if I watch the game"? Her argument is since there is only 1 TV and she would also want to watch something else. Also, she said that I didn't think about what will she do during that time and we only get a weekend to spend sometime. I told her that if she wants to watch something else then just let me know, I can watch the game on my phone or laptop. Then she continued saying that "after marriage its US not me that matters and that I am selfish and to me a game is more important than my wife". She didnt stop and kept on saying things like that " you think you are the leader of this house and you only want a slave who keeps her mouth shut". and continued saying the mean things. I guess I lost it at the point and told her if she thinks I am that bad then why not leave each other. I just went out as she requested. So that was sunday, Feb 24th.

Nothing happened on Monday, feb 25th, she went to her therapist and I messaged her to ask how was it but she didn't reply. On Tuesday, Feb 26th, while I was at work (she doesn;t work and looking for a job), around 9:30AM she started sending me text msgs that "I am the worst husband one can ask for, that I am unsupportive and heartless stone. I will go to hell and god will punish me. she will pray to god that I will get some disease and there will be on one to take care of me and that I will die alone." This and much more continued till 5:30PM.When I couldnt take it anymore,  I told her again to leave the house asap and never try to contact me. We are over.

She is still at home and I don't want her to go. I have apologized for telling her to leave.She gets really depressed after our fights and I cannot see her cry. We haven't been talking since then. But I feel really bad about everything and tried talking to her by sending trivial msgs like "if she wants to go out for dinner or a movie" or "how was her appt with her T". No replies from her side. No even a single word.

I am not sure what to do here. She seems ok for last couple of days and have been focusing of her health and studies. But I know she is hurting inside like I am. Its always me who fixes up things by apologizing. Will I be enabling her by apologizing for wanting to watch a game? Do you think she will realize how her behavior impacts me?

I just feel like curling up on my sofa (my bed for last 6 days) and cry. I am not able to detach from her emotionally and its been terrible. I love her so much and I know we can have a wonderful life together only if she understands that both of us are suffering not just her.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[briefcase]

Hello, and welcome!

I know you are in a lot of pain over the problems in your marriage, I can hear it in your posts.  We've all been there. We know what it's like. 

I might suggest a good place to start is by reading our Lessons.  There is a lot of information in there that can help you get started right away. 

It's so easy to get caught up in all the emotion and drama of the moment in these relationships--and that sometimes causes us to react when we aren't really feeling centered.  For now, when you start to feel like the emotional temperature is rising, it might be better to step back and let things cool. Getting angry and saying things you don't really mean (like trying to kick her out) will only make things worse. 

Hang around, read the Lessons, and keep posting!

[Depression_or_bpd]

Thanks Briefcase,

I have been trying to implement the lessons like validate her feelings. But what do you do when she doesn't stop the verbal abuse even when you tell her to stop more than once. The first time I asked her to leave is when I was getting ready to go out of the house and she kept following me to every room just to say mean things. At times I find it just funny.

Is saying "if I am that bad why dont you leave"? Is it equally bad:)

[Rockylove]

I have been trying to implement the lessons like validate her feelings.

  Off to a great start! 

But what do you do when she doesn't stop the verbal abuse even when you tell her to stop more than once?

You tell her that you are going out for a walk (or a drive or whatever) until things cool down.  No threats, no anger.  And then you go out for a while. 

It's something that I'm working on myself.  It's difficult to get blasted and not say a word, but I've learned that the less I say the quicker the dust settles.  briefcase is absolutely right~~getting angry and saying things you don't mean makes it worse.  It's a sad fact, but you have to lower your expectations a bit.  She isn't going to stop just because you ask her to.  You have to be the one to remove yourself from the situation and give her time to self soothe. 

[tuli]

Thanks Briefcase,

I have been trying to implement the lessons like validate her feelings. But what do you do when she doesn't stop the verbal abuse even when you tell her to stop more than once. The first time I asked her to leave is when I was getting ready to go out of the house and she kept following me to every room just to say mean things. At times I find it just funny.

Is saying "if I am that bad why dont you leave"? Is it equally bad:) 

It sounds like you have a very healthy sense of boundaries already, particularly in how you were able to negotiate with her complaint around tv sharing.  So you should be able to put an end to this kind of "you don't care about me/bad husband" talk that can tear down a marriage very quickly.

What is happening now is you do not have a clear idea of how much is appropriate for you as a husband to give to her, so she is taking advantage of this to try to get you to give emotionally more to her than is healthy or appropriate.   And since we never get taught what our everyday role actually is in a relationship, pretty much anyone can take advantage of us until we get very clear on it. 

I am just going to start with the game watching.  Subject matter here is how to divide time on the weekends into personal time and shared time.  It is appropriate, healthy and necessary for all spouses to have personal time during the weekend and you can let her know this, even after the fact if you decide to revisit this issue with her. 

She needs to be told if she feels that you are taking too much personal time, that you will be more than happy to sit down with her and negotiate how much each of you should take on the weekends so that both of your needs are met.  And that is proper respectful wife treatment.  Any other kind of approach on that or similar subjects she should be gently told is inappropriate.

So important points:  You have a right to personal time.  No therapist would ever go along with the idea that taking personal time on the weekends makes you a bad husband. 

Moving on to the area of any kind of verbal accusation on your character.  To clarify your own boundaries, you need to clarify for yourself that the role of a husband and wife in a marriage is to support the other person.  This means that there is no place in a marriage for a spouse to say or act like the partner is a bad person, ever. 

She may say that one of your behaviors is bad, but whenever the line gets crossed to where she is inferring in any way that you are a bad person, particularly a bad husband, she is moving outside of the marriage agreement. 

So she needs to be told clearly that if there is any behavior that you have done that she thinks is bad, she is to sit down and discuss it with you respectfully and that you will negotiate so that both of your needs are met.  You need to let her know that this is the only appropriate way you will accept her complaints.  You can just say this calmly to her over and over, even if she is following you.

It is very important for her that she apologizes each time she says anything denigrating to you.  This can be done later, maybe the next day when the emotions have died down.  You would tell her that when she said X (you are selfish, or you don't care about the marriage) although you accept that she was not feeling good about your behavior, the way it came out sounded like she was saying you were a bad person, and you would like her to apologize for it coming out that way. 

Important points:  It is extreme "bad wife" behavior to ever act like you are not a good person or put you down or ever try to make you feel bad about yourself.  There is no situation in any marriage where this is appropriate.  We all make mistakes and anything can happen during the heat of the moment, so there is no reason to act like they are evil when they do this, but this has to be apologized for every time in order to re-enter the appropriate boundaries of a marriage.

[Somewhere]

Mine seems to (at least pretend) the wacky events never happened.

Too bad yours texted the nut-job stuff.  Hard to pretend it did not happen.

Probably yours did not want to say the things -- they just get the crazy stuff rolling around in their head and it comes out.  They seem to mean it AT THE TIME, but then the Brain Chemistry shifts, and they are sort of confused about how it all happened.

If you want to go tell her Forgive and Forget -- those Magic Eraser minds will just write a new story and be happy with it.  Really strange but we are living it here.  She just told me that "You (me) seem to remember conversations that never happened."  Twilight Zone.

[Depression_or_bpd]

Thanks tuli, Rockylove  & Somewhere!

I so want her to focus on her hobbies as well. I have tried so many times to discuss what she enjoy doing. But sometime it comes back to bite me. She would say "your view of marriage is we both do things separately". Its just so hard to explain that there has to be a balance. Since I have a job and she doesn't (she is looking), she thinks I get to have my time anyways.

One of the other topic she is been getting really upset about is that I am wanting her to take some responsibility of household chores (I have been doing pretty much everything for last 4 years). I told her that it will only help her to do something productive. She cannot study and look for job whole day (she hardly studies or looks for a job). And I even told her to do only as much as she can but do it with good heart. Its her house as well after all. She comes back with this "that You (me) only want a slave who cooks and keeps quiet and let you (me) do whatever you (me) want".

She doesn't understand her role in marriage but has unexpectedly high expectation from me.

@tuli, she cannot apologize. Just cannot. But she generalizes everything about me. A small nudge from my side and she starts questioning my character. Funny thing is, she doesn't leave my parents and sister out. She would start saying horrible things about the kind of people they are. She has only spent 20 days with them in last 4 years. I am very close to my parents. I guess she feels threatened by it.

@somewhere, I have faced a similar situations where she would blame me for saying something that my mind cannot even think of.  I guess she has a parallel conversation going on in her mind and may be in that conversation, she hears me say something. Needless to say, that parallel universe is reality for her.

@rockylove, how much time is enough for self soothe. I have been receiving silent treatment since Tuesday. I have tried talking but no response. Should I try more or give it some more time?

Its just hard to live like a roommate.

Thanks again everyone!

[Chosen]

Hi Depression_or_BPD,

Good to see you here again!  Although of course, I'm sorry you have gone through all this and have to be here.  The lesson on the right are useful and definitely read through them if you haven't had the chance yet.

Just to share my own experience:

- My H would be like your W, saying I'm a horrible person and will be judged by God, etc.  I have asked him before "If I'm so bad why don't you leave".  His answer is something like "You are bad but I stay because I love you.  I'm not like you, leaving just because you don't like something".  You see?  It's all about the pwBPD.  H victimised himself and at the same time presented himself to be the hero.  I have stopped playing this game.  (I have told him I am staying because this is my choice, he has his choice to make and if he thinks I'm so horrible and he doesn't want to be with he he can choose to leave but don't blame his choice on me.)

- When H verbally abused me I would stick around for it, even at work.  He would keep calling and I would be there to pick up the phone and stuff.  It is still hard for me to leave if I'm at home (home is small, leaving triggers horrible abandonment fears), and this verbal stuff has become much, much milder now, but if I'm at work and I can see him getting agitated (it's gotta be before the abuse starts), I just listen a little, then say I really want to listen to him but boss is calling/ I have a meeting/ etc., so at least I get some peace... .  

[tuli]

You are doing a great job as a partner, and if she wasn't borderline you would be in great shape.  But you cannot treat her as you would a normal partner. 

You are very accurate and perceptive in your statement:  "She doesn't understand her role in marriage but has unexpectedly high expectation from me."


This is true in all borderline marriages.  This is the essence of your problem but it is also your solution.  She doesn't understand her role in marriage, and you need to educate her.  I am really very serious about this.  You need to clear up her misconceptions every time, kindly and patiently. 

How do you expect to be in a marriage with someone who won't apologize?  That's an essential part of being in a marriage.  She needs to be educated about this, patiently, gently.  Tell her you need this apology, and part of being a good spouse is the ability to apologize. 

It is clear that you two have not come to a mutual agreement about how to divide the household chores.  Why have you not sat down with her and listened to her views of who should do what?  Why would you expect to make any progress if you haven't made a dual decision that you both agree to.  How are you going to enforce an agreement that has never been made?  Otherwise she is going to feel controlled.  It's not fair to ask someone to do something they haven't agreed to.

You need to tell her that your family is very important to you and it's not okay for her to say bad things about them, even if it's around the back door comments.  She needs to be reminded every time that it's not okay to talk badly about a spouse's family.  Once you have made this very clear, you can ask for an apology each time she does it. 

Educate, educate, educate.  It's going to take a long time, but every time she behaves in an unwifely way, gently let her know that's not appropriate wife behavior and tell her how a good wife behaves.  Shift the focus away from you being the bad husband to what being a good and bad wife is (stay patient, calm, non-blaming).

Good luck.  You are doing a good job.