I need more practice

[Rockylove]

   

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!  There all over me! 

Ok, so seriously.  I've been under attack for well over a month now and it's gotten to the point that I'm losing strength.  I'm not sure if I need a vacation away from him or just a good shrink!  I know intellectually when I'm about to be attacked... .   it's like he mentally draws a bulls eye on my forehead and I've no way of escaping it~~and he does it when I'm tired and I've not got the strength to shut it down before it escalates.  I fall right into the trap... .   then I'm seriously JADEing and he's sitting there with a smug smile on his face and I end up shutting up and going to bed feeling deflated and he's won another battle.  I'm tired of it... .   I know what to do to stop engaging in the battles, yet I'm falling into the trap he sets anyway!  Grrrrr!

Yesterday, I took his hands in mine and looked him in the eye (for all of two seconds because he couldn't look at me once I started to speak) and told him that I love him and because we've had such a difficult and stressful time lately that I don't think we've been effectively communicating.  I also said that I know he hasn't felt that I've been listening to him and that I'd like the opportunity to sit and listen and have him listen to me as well.  He agreed.  He said "five more days"... .     The last of the "company" will be leaving on Tuesday.  Whew! 

I started tiling the backsplash in the kitchen and he said he wanted to go to Home Depot.  I was going to stay home and work on my little project, but he said he would like me to go with him to pick out the flooring.  I agreed (he's color deficient and doesn't like to have to choose anything significant that involves color) and we left.  The day went along beautifully.  We took a drive (about 1 1/2 hrs) to the closest Home Depot to get a hot water heater and the flooring for the kitchen and a few other items we needed.  We were having a lovely time together.  When we came home, it was late afternoon~~about 3:30ish.  We unloaded the truck and I went back to working on the backsplash.  I worked until about 8:30 and called it quits.  We (the 3 of us) sat in the living room and ate.  Then the fun began!  He started in on me about right and wrong and I fell for it.  He misquoted me (like that was ever the first time) and I headed straight into JADE.  Then he equated that to good and evil and when he said "I know which one YOU are" I finally said "stop" (about 7 times before he actually did) but by then I was angry.   

I know I need to say stop before things escalate, yet I didn't.  Grrrrr!  I need lots more practice! 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Oh, Rockylove, don't beat yourself up! 

It's hard when we're tired or have been constantly under attack for a long time. From what I've read you've mostly done really well! I'm struggling with the same thing as you at the moment, disconnecting before things turn bad, and getting sucked in because my dBPDbf has been so aggressive the last month.

I've come to the conclusion that I must make more time for myself to recharge. And when he gets going my new mantra will now be "I'm helping myself by staying calm!". Or maybe "Stay healthy, stay calm!". Or "In charge, healthy, calm!" Hmmm, I need to work on this a little 

We'll get there!

[yeeter]

Hi Rocky!

'life is a series of lessons.  If you don't learn that lesson the first time around, don't worry, you will get that lesson again'

This was told to me by a friend many years ago, and I have always remembered it.

You are learning though.  You are aware of yourself and just what you can do to make things go better next time.  That's a huge part of it, so now all you have to do is practice... .   (which you have plenty of opportunity to do)

I also find that I have more patience and energy for it if I take care of myself with sleep, exercise, regular connection with healthy friends, etc.

[Rockylove]

It's hard when we're tired or have been constantly under attack for a long time.

I've come to the conclusion that I must make more time for myself to recharge. And when he gets going my new mantra will now be "I'm helping myself by staying calm!". Or maybe "Stay healthy, stay calm!". Or "In charge, healthy, calm!"

We'll get there!

Indeed, Scarlet!  The past 2 months have been so very difficult~~more difficult than the past 2 years combined!  I was really feeling stronger and more in control of my "reactions"~~making better choices and not engaging in arguments.  He seems to think all the problems will just disappear once we're alone in the house again.  I'm usually the optimist, but I'm not delusional! 

I like your idea of the mantras... .   I usually have positive affirmations stuck to my computer and places where I'll see them often... .   but saying the mantra "stay healthy, stay calm" over and again seems like the best thing to do for myself right now.

Thank you! 

[allibaba]

Its ok Rockylove.  I cried all the way to work this morning.  I have been under so much pressure from my husband for weeks now.  I am so incredibly tired of it. Taking the high road all the time is exhausting.

Last night I came home and made us an excellent dinner and my husband went off his head because I had rinsed all the dishes that I had used to make dinner and had put them next to the sink instead of in the dishwasher (thought it was clean and full -- because when I do dishes I run a load in the morning before I head off to work).  Recently he won't let me do the dishes because he wants to (COOL) but now if anything is even remotely out of place he goes nuts.

This morning he told me that I have been abusing him for 10 yrs because he has simple requests and I can't follow them.  Out of the blue he wanted coffee so I made him a pot.  He said that he has been asking every day for a month (seriously is he on drugs?) and why can't he make coffee.  Is he disabled - he doesn't work - why can't he make his own coffee?

He also said that I am the laziest person in the world and that his whole family thinks that I am an angel but that I do NOTHING for him.  He starts another job soon where he'll leave at 5am and he said that he is going to stop doing housework (in my head I'm like that's ok man.  You don't do any anyway!).

And the final beauty was that he told me that next time that he finds something of mine out of place he will just destroy it.  HE LEAVES HIS STUFF EVERYWHERE.

God grant me the serenity not to lose it.  I'm feeling very weak this morning.

[Cloudy Days]

I think it happens to the best of us. There has been so many times my husband has said, You did... .   Whatever it was he thought I did and I immediatly say "No I didn't" because I didn't. It doesn't occour to me until after I say it that he is just finding something to gripe about and I took the bait.

Although I have to say, it makes me so happy when he accuses me of something or says that I did something and I am able to prove him wrong. It doesn't happen often, but it happens. The other day he swore I did something with his belt. Got so mad at me because I move his stuff so he can't find it. Turns out he took it off and threw it on the floor and it got coverd up by his clothing that he also took off and threw on the floor 

Allibaba sounds like you need a hug   Sometimes they just want to yell so they find anything.

[Rockylove]

God grant me the serenity not to lose it.  I'm feeling very weak this morning.

 

I'm right here with you!  We'll rewrite the serenity prayer together!

[Rockylove]

Although I have to say, it makes me so happy when he accuses me of something or says that I did something and I am able to prove him wrong.

I can never prove him wrong.  He twists my words so I've no defense.  I have to throw my hands up and surrender.  Is it better to be kind than to be right?  *sigh*

[yeeter]

I have heard the question from more than one T:

Do you want to be 'right'?

Or do you want to be in a relaxationship?


It wasn't always directed at me, more often directed at my wife. But the inference is that in order to be in a relationship. Any relationship. You have to let go of the urge to be 'right'

[Rockylove]

But the inference is that in order to be in a relationship. Any relationship. You have to let go of the urge to be 'right'

I understand this intellectually.  I get it.  It makes sense.  I still struggle. 

I spent many years trying to prove myself.  I didn't grow up in a very validating home.  There wasn't much anyone could do "right" except my mother!  I developed some unhealthy skills for emotional survival and it's difficult to break old habits, but I'm continually working on it.  Certain things will strike that nerve and return me to my childhood.  I've learned some valuable tools and skills to stay focused on the present, but I've still got my moments of weakness and when he pushes that button... .  

The hot button here is the discussion of "right" and "wrong."  I will maintain my position that I believe it's too subjective a concept to have a universal consensus.  His black and white thinking won't accept that.  I have to practice saying "this is my belief~~let's just agree to disagree" and let it go. 

[zaqsert]

Good point, Yeeter.  My problem or hot button has been being accused of being dishonest, uncaring, a liar.  My father was possibly uNPD and turned out to be a con artist, as I learned in my teens.  I only saw him when visiting over vacations a couple of times a year, but he still had a strong negative influence on my life.  I react when accused of anything that resembles him.

To a lesser extent, I react to being accused of having feelings that are totally different from what I actually feel or, ironically, when accused of always having to be right (which I know not to be true).

Realizing where the accusations are coming from is helping me to react less, but I still need to get better about not JADEing.  And RockyLove, I also need to get better at stopping these conversations sooner.  Sometimes I feel good about not having taken the bait.  Other times I don't realize I took bait and then don't stop it until it devolved too far.

I hope I learn the lessons the next time around, or sometime soon. 

[sad but wiser]

It is okay to have battle fatigue.  This is a battle and it is weird that you have to fight the person to get them to let you stay with them. (Does that make sense?)  In a way, you are pushing a car up a hill, thinking you have at least a little help from your partner, only to look up an notice that they are on the other end of the car pushing it back down the hill.  You are just tired.  Who wouldn't be?

Deep breath.  Maybe another one.  And another... .  

The verbal traps are very familiar to me.  It was the same with my husband.  He would make a statement misquoting me or quoting out of context, interpret for me and then say, "Either you are lying or need therapy."  I ended up wondering where that one came from.  If I tried to correct the misquote or remind him of the context, he might even say okay and agree.  But within a day or two he would bring up the same thing all over again in a very redundant way making me fight that same battle over and over and over until I was so worn down I was crying tired.  I didn't know about BPD and I was very isolated, so at least you have us to help you not feel so crazy! 

  Polling.  The other verbal battle trick he had was polling.   He would make a statement and then offer either A or B as the interpretation of solution to the problem.  It felt like he just wanted to force the lesser of the two untrue evils, because it usually led to him validating something he wanted to do or not do.  If I offered a third solution or interpretation, he would either keep talking until I would agree to anything to get him to stop talking or cut the conversation short and refuse to discuss that.

  It was very, very frustrating.  You are not alone!

[bruceli]

But there needs to be a balancing point at sometime.

I have heard the question from more than one T:

Do you want to be 'right'?

Or do you want to be in a relaxationship?


It wasn't always directed at me, more often directed at my wife. But the inference is that in order to be in a relationship. Any relationship. You have to let go of the urge to be 'right'

[NonnyMouse]

Does anyone reward themselves when they manage to not JADE? Like, hey, I'll have a piece of chocolate, or a gin & tonic,... .   or rather something that doesn't come with its own problems!

[yeeter]

Ya.  It's an intellectual comment I think.  I think the inference is that just because you 'are' right, doesnt always mean it's productive to try to convince your partner of it.

[Rockylove]

I think the inference is that just because you 'are' right, doesnt always mean it's productive to try to convince your partner of it.

Yeeter... .   very astute.  As I've said, I know this intellectually and yet fall into the trap over and again.  There has only been one subject I've made clear that I will not discuss with my bf and now I'm seeing that my boundary has to expand to include more.  I've always found it rather stimulating to have philosophical discussions (or debates) with intelligent people, but I'm recognizing the benefit of not having these types of discussions with him.  He's admitted that he brings things up to goad me... .   He says it's to make me think.  Is it really to make me think or to make me think like him?

Thank you all for your responses... .   it's really is helpful for me to hear that it happens to others too. 

[yeeter]

I enjoy a friendly intellectual/philisophical conversation as well. 

But I had to give up trying with my wife, it doesn't work.  She needs to 'solve' it, and most of the good philosophical topics have no one specific solution.

Then she needs to take a strong position on what's she has determined is the 'right' answer.  Part of the need to categorize and the comfort of clear black/white order of things.

I save my philosophical conversations for other friends... .  

[waitaminute]

I've not read many of these "staying" posts. I spent more time on the 'leaving' board. But I'm trying to walk the tightrope of being a longdistance friend of my ex. So I'm reading now.

I know these situations that you guys are describing. They make no sense. That's what you have to remember. It's more likely (it seems to me) to be a pre-emptive defence built from a projected guilt. That plus your partners have probed a little into your own psyche and have come up with some things to say that they know you will respond to. And thus they pre-empt any attack on them. (even if you never would criticize them)

My dilemma is this. If I believe that what they say makes no sense and that I should just blow it off, when do I take serious what they say? I mean you can't build understanding with another human whose spoken words are 100% BS. So you have to pick the words that are coming from a place of truth. But how?

[TigerEye]

when do I take serious what they say?

For me there's a simple answer to this, when actions match the words! I love the moments of clarity when they come, but often that's all it is, a moment. Until such time as my SO can act on the revelations shes had, they're only words.

I have built up quite a range of 'no go' subjects, when I see them coming, I disengage. Like Yeeter says, it's best to keep certain conversations for those who can debate with a degree of logic and those who can be open to others views.

For those with BPD there is only one reality and that can not be questioned by us nons.

[Rockylove]

when do I take serious what they say?

For me there's a simple answer to this, when actions match the words! I love the moments of clarity when they come, but often that's all it is, a moment. Until such time as my SO can act on the revelations shes had, they're only words.

Funny you should say that... .   my bf says that nothing anyone says is real until he sees it with his own eyes.  He believes no one.  They have to prove themselves to him.  I was astounded!  During his rages he tells me that I'm a liar and nothing I say can be trusted because I NEVER do what I've said I'll do.  The 2 things that he hinges this belief on were things that were out of my control yet he blames me.  I can't to or say anything to change his mind on this.  He doesn't want to see that they were things that he himself should have been taking care of because the failure to produce would have fallen on him~~not me. 

Knowledge is power yet I feel so powerless in this instance.  I know all the reasons it happens, yet I feel powerless to do anything about it except walk away.  There is no resolution.  I will forever be called a liar and I have difficulties accepting that.  I don't know whether it's just in the moment of anger that he feels I'm a liar or if it's all the time with everything... .   I don't want to ask the question because it just stirs up the pot. 

[KateCat]

Could it be that he really doesn't trust you, specifically? That he regards you as a sneaky, homeless golddigger, attempting to land him for financial security? (He kind of keeps repeating this view, doesn't he?)

It's a truly sad situation, it seems. Almost anything you try to do for him can be interpreted as yet more evidence of your deviousness.

[yeeter]

I will forever be called a liar and I have difficulties accepting that. 

This is a huge statement (at least it was for me).  Its an attack on our fundamental character, and every ounce of energy in our body is naturally triggered to defend our core sense of who we are as a person.

BUT - as you point out, its hopeless to try to convince him that his reality is not reality.

I was advised to quit focusing (or obsessing even) on it, and to live my life and WALK THE WALK.  Part of the detachment is to learn to not take these comments personally (from a person that holds a special place in your life - so again it goes against the grain).  But instead surround yourself with other healthy and positive people and relationships, to where you know yourself and feel good about your own behavior and actions, and your partners perception holds less value (YOU know what is, and is not the reality of the situation).  Its tricky because often times there is an element of truth with a bunch of misrepresented elements attached to them.  You have to recognize this and filter the 'valid' feedback from the misrepresentations.  Unfortunately our own personalities can often cause us to err on the side of owning more than we should.  And of course our partner is owning less than they should.  Only one side of this dynamic do you have control of, and thats what you own and how to internalize the comments made by an emotionally disordered person... .  

[Rockylove]

Only one side of this dynamic do you have control of, and thats what you own and how to internalize the comments made by an emotionally disordered person... .  

The sad truth.  :'(