Recurring trigger situations with my b/f ref women

[connect]

Hello,

Am posting on here as have a recurring problem with my b/f and need some advice or at least someone to tell me I am not crazy!

I have had many difficulties with my b/f around other women (not physical affairs but emotional ones/flirtations etc) The history is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=199023.0

Due to all this and my co-dep any mention of other women is seen by him as an instant attack and is met with a rage that evening which we always resolve. In the morning he will wake up and it is now not resolved in his head and he feels attacked again and rages at me. This is usually followed by days of silent treatment and he refuses to see me. Due to his history with getting close to other women (he actually went on holiday with one) I am very sensitive about this subject. I also now find myself scared to bring up any issues in this area to avoid the backlash and silent treatment.

I have been using the tools pretty successfully (as successful as I can be now he is off his antidepressants) and have managed to navigate rages, detach, remove myself from rages, listen to him, validate etc and we have been talking mush better and making progress. He has come off facebook and cut the holiday woman out of his life by his own volition. He has admitted he has problems with depression and his mood swings - he apologises and is looking at himself more and more to make this r/s work.

A situation occurred yesterday where he had to spend time with a woman I work with and dislike (she is a huge flirt, not a nice person and pushed me out of my job into a temporary one) I attempted to express simply to him that I don't like her and could he not be his normal super friendly, flirty self with her please. I also in a co-dep way (bad I know) tried to manage the situation so that he didn't have to spend time with her and he called me on that. Guilty yes, but I know I have co-dep issues and am working on them but I also have huge trust issues with him that I am having to work on too.

The situation was resolved last night and we were 100% fine. He felt attacked  but we navigated that and I asked for him to tell me the best way to approach triggering situations in the future and we made a plan.

This morning however as predicted he raged at me saying the following things:

1) He has tried and tried for months but he is losing the will to carry on with me

2) I attacked him

3) He is scared to go out the house because I wont let him talk to ANY women

4) He doesn't want to meet my female friends as I will have a go at him

5) I look all pretty on the outside but I am a nasty person

6) He can see why I don't get on with people and have conflict with them (this is so untrue its not funny)

7) He can see why my work wants to make me redundant as I am a bad person to work with

8) He can see why they replaced me at work with this other woman

9) He thinks I hate all women

10) He thinks I should go away and sort myself out and then come back when I am better

11) He cares about me so much but doesn't know if he can put up with me attacking him about other women for the rest of his life

12) He wants to go to be with his mates at a festival this weekend if I am like this

13) He doesn't want to be around me anymore

14) He says I am insecure

15) All woman his whole life have tried to tell him what to do and he wont accept that anymore

16) All I want from him is his house, his cats, his lifestyle, his home comforts and that I actually hate him

17) I am crazy (he admitted here that he was crazier)

18) If I am scared to talk to him then he needs to look at himself and maybe leave me as it's not fair on me

19) He will go into my old office and tell this woman that I said he isnt allowed to talk to her because she is a b***h

19) He will take another of my co-workers outside my old office and tell him the same

20) He wont go to the appointment at my old office today and I can explain why and but don't tell them he has killed himself as they might see him around (?  :'( )

In addition I found out this morning that he wants to cancel my birthday present to him on Sunday (sporting tickets) and go to a camping music festival tomorrow with his friends instead (I am not invited) He always instigates rows before he goes away. Always... . If I had known he was planning to go away I would have been on the look out for this. Sadly I only just found out today.

I am feeling really low. I know I have days of silent treatment coming and him justifying his latest trip on my unreasonable behaviour. He acts like we are on  a break when this happens too which terrifies me

I feel like I am starting to believe the things he says about me. I feel like I am the crazy one. I love him and I have put so much into this r/s but can feel it slipping away from me

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[MaybeSo]

Connect, first of all, I know this hurts. I'm sorry.

Here's the deal;

If you dont change something here, you will feel crazy. I spent nearly 3 years doing exactly what you are doing. I felt crazy and terrified.

Stop it.

You have to find a way to let go.

He is who he is, all of it.

He is a flirt, he makes poor judgement calls re: other women ( if he wants a stable committed r/s), he dysregulates and acts on intense emotions that are swinging wildly to and fro... . and he can be a really great partner when he is not doing those things. But he is all that, and will continue to be who he is.

It is not healthy to feel terrified of losing control or losing a relationship. If this can't work out, you will survive. If you have no sense of that, it's time to get some more help to strengthen your own sense of self. If you calibrate or tie  (make dependent-codepend) your wellbeing and sense of self  to a person who is inherently unstable... . you will feel and act crazy and unstable, too.   Stop it. You cannot be codependent with crazy and stay sane!

What can help is distance. Getting distance from his instability can help you to calibrate away from him against "normal" so that you get back in touch with you.

Where are you in terms of radical acceptance that he's just going to be the way he is with women. This is who he is. You are not going to be able to successfully change it for him. Trying to change this is a set up for more craziness. It's an awful feeling, I know it well. The hardest part is letting go... . but it is paradoxically the most peaceful, sane thing to do for yourself.

[connect]

Thanks Maybeso - I was hoping you would answer.

I know you are right. There is no peace here. I am having trouble accepting who he is. It is a struggle. For so long he kept who he was hidden from me. He said this morning that out of our year and a half r/s we have only had two good weeks which we are both hanging on to. This is not true. We have had lots of good times. We have been happy. He cant remember any of it.

Right now I am also having to work out where I am sleeping tonight. I am staying with a friend who needs the house to themselves tonight so am texting my other friends for a bed. No money either. This all really doesn't help. I am feeling pretty sorry for myself right now. I have a boyfriend who is so self absorbed/disregulated  atm that I dont even feel I can ask him for a place to sleep. In February we were practically living together and he was asking me to move in properly and he would support me financially as my job is unstable - how did I end up here? 

[almost789]

And we remember how great it was, and Im not sure they do, which makes it so much easier for them to just drop it without a thought... . idk.

[connect]

Yes they don’t remember the good stuff at all.

The thing that gets me about the rages is that he is using this one to get what he wants. He had a much worse rage over the weekend. It came out of no-where as we were having a great weekend and I was being as kind, loving, generous as I ever could be. It wasn’t about anything in particular and nothing I did or said was the trigger but again a list of my faults were presented to me (Bearing in mind I had been up with his child at 6.30 every morning to allow him a lie in and had cooked and cleaned and had fun with my b/f all day!) I handled this really well, textbook, then I left him to self soothe on his own. When he came back he apologised profusely and said he felt better for “talking to me” (interesting take on a rage!)  and he and I discussed ways he can handle his emotions better. He opened up then that he sees that other people go through life on a level and they only deviate slightly from that level. He said that for him he struggles every day to try to get a semblance of being on a level – its constant adjustments for him. When I write this I feel sorry for him and I see it. I just forget sometimes that he has BPD and I treat him like a non and expect that – I forgot this yesterday. See I am blaming myself again….

So as I was saying, THIS rage he will not recover from in a few hours as its useful for him to carry it on to get his weekend away. That is what gets me. He has recovered from worse at the weekend so I know he is capable of it. The timing of this one is too useful for him to let go.

[connect]

Also to answer you Maybeso - the thing that terrifies me is that in a disregulated state (and thinking/acting like we are on a break which is untrue) he may do something that I cant forgive him for. I am scared about that. Despite my sadness, confusion and co-dep I do have some things which I cant forgive in a r/s and that's what I fear. He knows that anything physical with someone else will be the end for me and that is a boundary that isn't going away ever.

I know I need to take time out to recalibrate but I struggle so much to centre myself against the backdrop of what's just happened. When this happens I feel like I am treading water waiting to see him again and for everything to go back to normal. Co-dep I know but to carry on as normal without him and try not be too affected feels alien. I love spending time alone and doing my own thing - - I have always ensured I have this space in other r/s's but when that space is forced on you with a background of a list of your "faults" and an undercurrent of r/s limbo/threats then I find it almost impossible to get anything out of it. I need to work on this.

[connect]

and another thing... .

When we talked last night afterwards about how I can bring up my issues around other women with him he said I need to do this in a certain way.


*  He says it needs to be straightforward and honest and not via the back door or round the houses (eggshells crunching I hear?) The problem was the way I introduced the subject with a question " what did you think of XXgirls nameXX?" He said it was a trick - I said it was a subject introduction.

*  He says I need to pre-warn him "somethings playing on my mind"

*  I need to then come out with the thing straight off.

He claims if I do it like this he will not feel attacked and he will be fine and we can discuss it. I am sure I have talked to him like this before and he was still triggered... .

So despite the resolution, the discussion on how we can improve our communication, me agreeing to talk like that and everything being fine - he still raged the next day  :'(

[arabella]

I know I need to take time out to recalibrate but I struggle so much to centre myself against the backdrop of what's just happened. When this happens I feel like I am treading water waiting to see him again and for everything to go back to normal. Co-dep I know but to carry on as normal without him and try not be too affected feels alien.

I have this too. I've come to think of it as being very similar to their BPD dysregulation. A turmoil of emotion, we know we aren't reacting well, but we just can't seem to stop it! Now when I get upset and want to push to 'fix' things, I tell myself that I am dysregulated and that I need to take some time to calm down and get my head into a better spot before continuing or deciding what to say/do. This helps me a lot.

As for trying to carry on and trying not to let it affect us too much... . If it didn't feel alien or weird, then we wouldn't be co-dep! If you could easily shut it off, it wouldn't be a problem, right? I think this is where the real struggle lies - trying to reprogram ourselves to react in a different way. I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic. She says she thinks of every time she turns down a drink, every hour she goes without a drink, every liquor store she passes by, as a step in her recovery. She says it feels 'unnatural', like she's fighting with herself, but she knows what she wants and she wants to stay sober. I think it's the same with our co-dep instincts. (Btw, she's been sober for over a year now and she's doing really great!)

and another thing... .

When we talked last night afterwards about how I can bring up my issues around other women with him he said I need to do this in a certain way.

*  He says it needs to be straightforward and honest and not via the back door or round the houses (eggshells crunching I hear?) The problem was the way I introduced the subject with a question " what did you think of XXgirls nameXX?" He said it was a trick - I said it was a subject introduction.

*  He says I need to pre-warn him "somethings playing on my mind"

*  I need to then come out with the thing straight off.

He claims if I do it like this he will not feel attacked and he will be fine and we can discuss it. I am sure I have talked to him like this before and he was still triggered... .

The model that your bf proposed is actually how I go about it with my dBPDh. It seems to work better (even if he's triggered, it's a bit less). I warn him first: "Hey, I want to chat about something that's bothering me a bit, but I don't want to get into a row about it. I just want to have a short conversation so that you know how I feel and so it isn't going around in my head anymore." Then I tell him what I think/feel without asking him anything (i.e. I'm giving him information, not asking for his input - so he can't claim he was 'trapped' or 'tricked'. Then I wait to see what he has to say. If he doesn't say anything then sometimes I'll ask a question, often it's along the lines of: "So, what do you think about it?" or "What do you think we could do so that I don't drive myself crazy over this?" It's not perfect, but it seems to help a bit. Bear in mind, my H sees 'traps' in conversation all the time because he lies about so many little things that he can't keep track.  So he gets tripped up easily. He'd rather have a focused conversation so that he can just avoid talking about anything extra that might set off a landmine. I know that's ridiculous, but I accept that that's the way it is and I might as well do what I can with the reality.

So despite the resolution, the discussion on how we can improve our communication, me agreeing to talk like that and everything being fine - he still raged the next day  :'(

He probably didn't even remember. Emotional memory is much more powerful than intellectual memory, unfortunately. And, remember, what a pwBPD feels is their truth - no matter what other facts are in front of them. The rages aren't really tied to you, just to whatever is in his head and whatever mood he wakes up in. He's probably stressed and feeling guilty about the upcoming weekend away so that = rage at you. Nothing you can do about that except stay out of the line of fire.

[arabella]

Oh, I meant to comment too on the "only remembering the bad stuff" thing. Ugh! Yes.

When my H was working up to leaving and was dissociated, he told me that "we haven't been happy for years". This was news to me! I pointed out that we've only been married a few years and he wanted to get married so he must have been happy then. Apparently, according to dysregulated him, that was before things got bad and "we've both changed a lot since then". Right, so you went into the marriage thinking that either: (a) neither of us would ever change, or (b) marriage is really only for a few years. Nice. Nevermind the fact that all of the upheaval has been stuff on his end and he's upset about things that have nothing at all to do with me. Nevermind the fact that we had a great time together all last summer. Oh, but now things are better - no reason given, of course.

[MaybeSo]

Memory is a difficult thing if you have BPD... . ,and difficult for those relating to a pwBPD

We all get waves of emotion about a previous difficulty. If you have  BPD that wave feels like the problem is happening now... . conversely whatever problem solving or resolution reached is lost in the wave of emotion being experienced.

This is what it is like to relate with a person who has this condition. ! This is what it is like.

Terrified is a loaded word and a loaded emotional state. Terrified people have adrenaline and norepinephren surging through their body. Frontal lobes shut down and your primitive brain takes over in preparation for fight/flight. If stay at or near this level of arousal long term you will not be well.

A person may do something that is a deal breaker for you. He may do something based on

his personality and issues that may be a deal breaker for you.  It may even be more likely

that he do something that is a deal breaker than the average bear. And it would be very

painful and sad, but Connect, this may happen with him or someone else. One day, even

the most stable person in the world may die before you do, leaving you. Friends and lovers

come and go. People sometimes cheat. There are indiscretions, betrayals and disapointment.

Loss is part of life.

You have chosen a r/s with a person whose very condition makes him

less stable than the average bear.

Our job is to accept what is and then take steps to be healthy given what is.

That may mean leaving a situation that is too untenable for you long term. It may mean

adjusting your expectations and resolve in light of harsh realities. Or something in between.

Being upset is normal, but living in fear or feeling terrified of loss, disappointment, grief

etc.,is hard on your body and soul.

If he did blow it and did something that required the end of your r/s with him... . you will still

be okay.

Steph use to always tell me... . let go, let go and see what he does because if he is a big fat

cheater... . better to know that soon before more time and energy is invested. Give him all the

rope he needs and see what happens.

The alternative is living in fear and trying control or manage another adult, completely and

utterly impossible.

You want to know what you are signing onto... . and keep in touch with your own free will

And ability to choose. 

[patientandclear]

In addition I found out this morning that he wants to cancel my birthday present to him on Sunday (sporting tickets) and go to a camping music festival tomorrow with his friends instead (I am not invited) He always instigates rows before he goes away. Always... . If I had known he was planning to go away I would have been on the look out for this. Sadly I only just found out today.

*** I know I have days of silent treatment coming and him justifying his latest trip on my unreasonable behaviour. He acts like we are on  a break when this happens too which terrifies me

Connect, this sounds really hard to deal with.  I think it is doing what it is (perhaps subconsciously) designed to do on his part: he's punishing you or testing you.  When you move in the direction of these issues with other women, he makes the cost very high.  You write that you are scared to talk about the issues that bother you because you are afraid of the consequences.  Yes.  I think that's how this machine operates -- you raise these issues, you get punished.

MaybeSo advises that you work on radical acceptance of his ways with women so that, if you stay in the r/s, you don't have to constantly introduce this topic and trigger his reaction to it which is so hurtful.  Only you can decide if, given his patterns with women, you want to stay.  But what MS says makes sense to me -- it's the trying to change who he is and how he is that is the source of a lot of this angst.

I really relate to everything you've said in this thread, and it's illuminating for me, too.  You sound like you are trying to perform at such a high level that you can defeat BPD and prevent rages, be so loving and caring that he will not be mean, reason with him about how he handles women if you lead into the conversation just right.

This was me in my BPD r/s this past year.  Walking a high wire, trying to be so good at it that I didn't ever fall.  Not possible.  Letting go, radical acceptance and detachment really are a different state of mind than the one you & I seem to be in (I'm getting there but only because he left and I'm not allowing myself to contort myself into additional yoga positions to try to reestablish the r/s, so space and detachment are being imposed by the situation).  You seem to be looking for the right formula for your behavior that will prevent him from hurting you, but you aren't going to find that.  My pwBPD doesn't rage or deny to my face that our r/s has any value or technically "cheat" -- he just leaves.  Leaving is his coping strategy but it is also the nuclear button I always know is there, that scares me from behaving how I would otherwise behave because I know he may very well just exit, and I so don't want him to.

Well, this time, I am just letting him go.  I'm fine with how I acted with him, this reaction is his issue, and I need to get over my terror of losing him because it was dominating my life.  My sister described it as "you're reading the tea leaves in his every fart."  Horrible, but accurate.

The fear part has to be dealt with.  We cannot live well while we are in fear.  I think the important lesson for us both is that if we continue to value our connection with these men, we have to be detached enough not to fear what they may do.  If we cannot do that, we need to be out of the r/s, because the fear is incredibly destructive, and it turns you into someone you don't want to be, and what is a r/s that is dominated by one person's fear that the other will hurt them, anyway?

[almost789]

Sorry Connect! This is why I push for change. I know I can't change him myself. But there are alot of BPD people who are getting help and getting better. How much up and down on this roller coaster can you take? Its not healthy, and it's almost inhuman to be able to detach from a lover but still remain in close contact. Is that even possible? And if it was, what is the point in the relationship if you are completely emotionally detached.

PC, thats funny, reading the tea leaves on his farts! ... . funny but true!

[connect]

Hi everyone x thanks so so much for your replies x REALLY appreciated - you don't know how much!

Arabella - spot on as ever x you have such a calm way of expressing yourself that it instantly makes me feel calmer - I am sure you help lots of people on here the same way.

Maybeso - great insight - I think as I have missed my last 2 co-dep meetings  (other commitments) I have forgotten the letting go side of things my end. When I was practising this I felt much better. Meeting again this week and a reminder from you should help.

PC - yes, you have been there too - it must be a good reminder of how it can be to be too enmeshed. I have been trying to do everything perfectly and running myself ragged in the process. Getting up with his child (nice for me too though) is so the tiredness trigger isn't set off! You were dealing with one big "leaving" shoe ready to drop -  very hard.

Summer - yes how much rollercoaster can I handle? My capacity amazes me actually. Growing up in an abusive/dysfunctional family has made me able to take a lot - you may feel strong at the time when the things bounce off you  but it catches up with you in the end. My Co-dep comes from this I think

[connect]

The update is that I went round to his last night as the limbo c**p was getting to me. He got steaming drunk (avoidance) and I ended up staying at his. This afternoon he wanted to talk and as I could see he was not in that weird space he was in I did talk. I refuse to talk about our r/s when he is disregulated. The talk went ok and he wants more space in our r/s. I told him what I want. I told him things I had been wanting to say for ages about his behaviour worsening since he is off the antidepressants, my difficulty speaking to him, my trust issues etc etc. He took responsibility for his side of things. I did for my side too.

He thanked me for talking and said he feels much better. He wants us to be nice to each other again.

Phew this is exhausting... .

Thanks again guys - I am looking forward to my co-dep meeting this week!

[whereisthezen]

Hi connect!

Thank you for posting, Your post and the replies you received have really given me insight into my own situation. I think it's the way you write your posts and of course some of the great members that offer their experience that is also right on with what I wen through or am still going through with my H. Soo, thank you!

I will say that rages and fights happening before any event or special day ( weekend getaway with friends or birthday) are usual triggers in my house for a laundry list of complaints that I don't even know where they come from. Happens now a lot less, as my coda meetings and the tools here are helping me avoid these with H, but nonetheless when they do happen a lot of times I feel like he is talking about someone else or maybe thoughts he thinks of only in that state. So in some ways connect, its hard, it hurts, it's exhausting but its also a grain of salt because he seems ( like my H) to be working on the r/s at some level ( more than previously) b

Your still together, he hasn't shut down or withdrawn for you, ( except when disagreements happen for a usual pd of time).

My thought is he has fear of what he does or fear of his reactions, but since you question them, he is in a way facing them, his behaviors, so maybe it's less scary for him and after having it out, he realizes he felt good for having growth and not shame as when they don't face their issues?


It's just my own personal opinion but thought I would share in case you want to think about it or ask your T their thoughts if you have one, hope it helps you. 

[connect]

Whereisthezen - wow thanks you found my post useful - am honoured, and from an ambassedor too! 

I like what you said about things being less scary for him if we talk about his reactions - its true it does seem like that.

The funny thing was that after our talk I said I would leave for the day/night so he had the space he requested. He then said that was a shame as we were getting on so well now - he said "I will be lonely if you go" Made me laugh!

[arabella]

The funny thing was that after our talk I said I would leave for the day/night so he had the space he requested. He then said that was a shame as we were getting on so well now - he said "I will be lonely if you go" Made me laugh!

Why is there no *facepalm* emoticon on this site? Seriously.

[whereisthezen]

Maybe they can add that! 

I think a lot of us have had that happen where we set some boundaries to limit our vulnerability or exposure to our partners next mood change... . It's good that you left, he wanted you to stay for his comfort or enjoyment, while that is understandable, it's really not about him is it?

You've had growth, you left for you, you have others things in your life requiring you with rest and attention. It's good to see you connected to yourself. We should all strive for those increases in self care. No step is too small, it's always a step forward.

Thank you for the ambassador statement, made me smile. I do think we have a great group of senior members that encourage a diverse population within the boards to step into an ambassador role. In addition to finding my own path, I am enjoying reaching out to new members to give some direction on how to navigate the boards and find information that may be useful. I do feel that member shares are they key to us all growing and learning about borderline pd. I'm sure I am due for another post soon on thoughts I've been having, in the mean time connect, thank you for sharing your experience. For me personally I value your insight and honesty!   

Glad to hear your updates. Strength & peace to you connect!

[Billa]

[

Connect, this sounds really hard to deal with.  I think it is doing what it is (perhaps subconsciously) designed to do on his part: he's punishing you or testing you.  When you move in the direction of these issues with other women, he makes the cost very high.  You write that you are scared to talk about the issues that bother you because you are afraid of the consequences.  Yes.  I think that's how this machine operates -- you raise these issues, you get punished.

But what MS says makes sense to me -- it's the trying to change who he is and how he is that is the source of a lot of this angst.


 Walking a high wire, trying to be so good at it that I didn't ever fall.  Not possible.  Letting go, radical acceptance and detachment really are a different state of mind than the one you & I seem to be in (I'm getting there but only because he left and I'm not allowing myself to contort myself into additional yoga positions to try to reestablish the r/s, so space and detachment are being imposed by the situation).  You seem to be looking for the right formula for your behavior that will prevent him from hurting you, but you aren't going to find that.  My pwBPD doesn't rage or deny to my face that our r/s has any value or technically "cheat" -- he just leaves.  Leaving is his coping strategy but it is also the nuclear button I always know is there, that scares me from behaving how I would otherwise behave because I know he may very well just exit, and I so don't want him to.

Well, this time, I am just letting him go.  I'm fine with how I acted with him, this reaction is his issue, and I need to get over my terror of losing him because it was dominating my life.  My sister described it as "you're reading the tea leaves in his every fart."  Horrible, but accurate.

The fear part has to be dealt with.  We cannot live well while we are in fear.  I think the important lesson for us both is that if we continue to value our connection with these men, we have to be detached enough not to fear what they may do.  If we cannot do that, we need to be out of the r/s, because the fear is incredibly destructive, and it turns you into someone you don't want to be, and what is a r/s that is dominated by one person's fear that the other will hurt them, anyway?

I agree, I was there too. and I'm still hurting, and also feel guilty as I didn't find the right way to cope with all this and 've lost him.