Okay, i'm embarrassed but i need to ask: anybody whose BPDso won't have sex?

[DreamFlyer99]

hi--

i'm feeling awkward asking this question, but has anybody else seen their BPD partner change extremely in their sex drive? When we were newly married we were quite happy with the whole sex thing, and of course it's changed here and there over time with busy-ness or healing from baby-birthing etc. But in the last few years as I've seen H's BPD traits get more prominent, one thing is with intimacy, he's not interested. "If I lose some weight maybe it'll be better" he'll say, and then drink copious amounts of wine or beer, or make no moves to rectify the weight thing. He considers running his hand down my arm a great sign of affection, which would be perfect if we were roommates or siblings... . We're both about 60, but I hadn't figured on sexual intimacy being so significantly different at this point in our lives. He works and is doing great there, but at home he's asleep or watching tv or on the computer, doesn't really do anything with me (grocery shopping etc) and is barely affectionate, and we aren't very emotionally intimate either.

What am I not understanding about this? It's not something I've found in any of the BPD info I've read.

Red-faced but putting the question out there... .

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[patientandclear]

Well, I think sharply diminished interest in sex is a fairly frequent phenomenon even in non-BPD relationships, but it's a pattern I definitely think is shown in a large subset of BPD relationships.  Maybe this is due to the intersection btwn development of BPD, and child sexual abuse.  My ex, while proficient (sex with him was wonderful, for me), was clearly freaked out by sex.  He told me he had seen a therapist about his inability to have sex outside of marriage ... . which confused me mightily, since we were having sex outside of marriage, and all seemed great for us both.  Clearly it was more complicated than that with him.  I later learned that in the many many other intense but short relationships that preceded ours, he chronically would freak out when they were on the brink of having sex.  With us, when we were considering getting back together, he seemed terrified of having sex again.  Though we waited (for me) a long time to have sex, to him, it was "very fast."  And so on.

It makes total sense that with a disorder that is about mistrust of intimacy, and fear that someone you allow very close will inevitably hurt you ... . compounded by any history of sexual abuse ... . there are going to be real issues around sex.

Bottom line, I don't think  your experience is at all unusual.

[bruceli]

In my case, DW has been quite honest about this in that it is all about control and fear of intimacy.

[Mono No Aware]

I'm there right now.

Sex is a minefield for the BPD. My uBPDw will trigger if I bring up the subject.

[DreamFlyer99]

First off, thank you for the responses--especially that they didn't reinforce any of my fears about posting that! LOL!

Patient and Clear--as far as I know, he wasn't abused sexually as a child, but he was taken advantage of in his teen years by somebody who just wanted out of her house (not that he was say "no no please don't have sex with me!" He had moved from a small town to a much bigger suburban area and was pretty out of his depth of understanding. I suppose that could still affect him. Plus his mother was looney tunes crazy! The kind of mother who shoves a spoon of crushed aspirin (with no applesauce or anything) into a 4 year old's mouth who since he's feeling sick anyway throws it up, but he's already at that age so terrified of her anger he tries to cover his mouth and that just makes it spew everywhere including on mom. So she beats him with a yardstick. The man deserves to have trust issues with people who are supposed to love him! So yes, what you say makes really good sense. I just didn't know about BPD until recent years and only thought about it with him when my therapist brought it up, so I guess that's why I didn't put those things together. But yep, trust and intimacy are not easy things for him. Great point.

bruceli, wow, she knows what it's about--that seems like a positive thing (other than the "no sex" part.) Again, fear of intimacy (and I suppose of disappointing their partners since that would bring up all those feelings of inadequacy) makes a lot of sense.  I don't entirely understand the control part, but I have seen that it has to be totally on his terms to even THINK about it, and i'm talking about a plant that blooms maybe once a year, if you get my meaning.

Mono No Aware-- WOW. Okay! So did you find her to be more interested when she was younger or more hormonal? I think that's one of the truly weird things to me is how important it once was to him, like telling me how difficult it was and how it made him think about/look at other women if we couldn't, and this is when I was recovering from miscarriages, not because I "had a headache" or something... .

Which brings to mind one of  the things I find strangest about BPD, their inability to see that another person in the same state of non-affairs might feel the same vulnerability.

Thank you again all for the honesty!

soo much to learn... .

[bruceli]

First off, thank you for the responses--especially that they didn't reinforce any of my fears about posting that! LOL!

Patient and Clear--as far as I know, he wasn't abused sexually as a child, but he was taken advantage of in his teen years by somebody who just wanted out of her house (not that he was say "no no please don't have sex with me!" He had moved from a small town to a much bigger suburban area and was pretty out of his depth of understanding. I suppose that could still affect him. Plus his mother was looney tunes crazy! The kind of mother who shoves a spoon of crushed aspirin (with no applesauce or anything) into a 4 year old's mouth who since he's feeling sick anyway throws it up, but he's already at that age so terrified of her anger he tries to cover his mouth and that just makes it spew everywhere including on mom. So she beats him with a yardstick. The man deserves to have trust issues with people who are supposed to love him! So yes, what you say makes really good sense. I just didn't know about BPD until recent years and only thought about it with him when my therapist brought it up, so I guess that's why I didn't put those things together. But yep, trust and intimacy are not easy things for him. Great point.

bruceli, wow, she knows what it's about--that seems like a positive thing (other than the "no sex" part.) Again, fear of intimacy (and I suppose of disappointing their partners since that would bring up all those feelings of inadequacy) makes a lot of sense.  I don't entirely understand the control part, but I have seen that it has to be totally on his terms to even THINK about it, and i'm talking about a plant that blooms maybe once a year, if you get my meaning.

Mono No Aware-- WOW. Okay! So did you find her to be more interested when she was younger or more hormonal? I think that's one of the truly weird things to me is how important it once was to him, like telling me how difficult it was and how it made him think about/look at other women if we couldn't, and this is when I was recovering from miscarriages, not because I "had a headache" or something... .

Which brings to mind one of  the things I find strangest about BPD, their inability to see that another person in the same state of non-affairs might feel the same vulnerability.

Thank you again all for the honesty!

soo much to learn... .

Not positive but more of a warning.  Another thing that she feels and states... . " I want what I want when I want it."  Seems as though you understand the control part just fine... .

[DreamFlyer99]

Heh. I guess, Bruceli, that I just didn't put those together, but heck yeh, apparently I get the control thing now! And that "more of a warning" is rather sad. I've always been too Pollyanna and that has caused me a lot of false hope aka "wishful thinking." With the sheer force of my positive "magical thinking" (as my T says)  I should probably start writing the next breakout series in the Science Fiction and Fantasy department! :-P

I really need to work on my Joe Friday: "just the facts ma'am."

Thanks for your input. And unfortunately, understanding this doesn't get me anywhere except to Better Understanding Land.

[Mutt]

The last couple of years before the uBPD left sex was a major issue.

Sex, she didn't want to have it, always an excuse about pain somewhere or something else but she did project it on me that I didn't want to have sex! 

The last excuse that she gave to me before she ran off is that she wanted me to get a visectomy and I simply said no (thank god, things at that point were really bad and I had a feeling she was leaving).

At first the sex was amazing, lots of it, over-time it dwindled and she always had excuses on her part and she said I was the one that didn't want it, she started an affair and left.

[bruceli]

hi--

i'm feeling awkward asking this question, but has anybody else seen their BPD partner change extremely in their sex drive? When we were newly married we were quite happy with the whole sex thing, and of course it's changed here and there over time with busy-ness or healing from baby-birthing etc. But in the last few years as I've seen H's BPD traits get more prominent, one thing is with intimacy, he's not interested. "If I lose some weight maybe it'll be better" he'll say, and then drink copious amounts of wine or beer, or make no moves to rectify the weight thing. He considers running his hand down my arm a great sign of affection, which would be perfect if we were roommates or siblings... . We're both about 60, but I hadn't figured on sexual intimacy being so significantly different at this point in our lives. He works and is doing great there, but at home he's asleep or watching tv or on the computer, doesn't really do anything with me (grocery shopping etc) and is barely affectionate, and we aren't very emotionally intimate either.

What am I not understanding about this? It's not something I've found in any of the BPD info I've read.

Red-faced but putting the question out there... .

Went back and re-read what you posted above... . sounds like you are entangled with a male version of my DW to a T.  I know exactly what you mean/are talking about.

[DreamFlyer99]

Got to LOVE that projecting thing, Mutt! I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?" before I found out what projection was! I was the badgering one, I was the angry one, etc etc. Made me feel certifiable!

And Bruceli, why doesn't that make me feel any better? Lol!

[bruceli]

Got to LOVE that projecting thing, Mutt! I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?" before I found out what projection was! I was the badgering one, I was the angry one, etc etc. Made me feel certifiable!

And Bruceli, why doesn't that make me feel any better? Lol!

Ahhhhhh... . Misery loves company?  LOL

[briefcase]

These relationships run hot and cold (push and pull) as far as initimacy, and sex is just a form of intimacy.   You certaintly aren't alone in this Dreamflyer, many members have asked about this over the years.  Have you talked to him about it?

[martillo]

DF99  Has your H had a physical lately? Maybe low T or ED?   My H is diabetic, alcoholic, overweight and a few yrs ago started having issues w ED.  Like you and your H, we had ups and downs in our physical relationship.  H can't accept responsibility that some of these issues might be his to own.  He acts like and says he is or wants to be same "h*rny" guy he has always been, but  I have become a prude and cold.  I believed that at first since I was getting close to 50 (now 52) and was dealing w my own physical changes, but now I suspect this is his way of not accepting his part of the responsibility. 

I have tried to convince him that it is ok if we aren't the same "wild and crazy" lovers we once were... . that we can be just as physically intimate in different ways.  I think because it requires lots of vulnerability, he is not ag peace about it!

[DreamFlyer99]

And Bruceli, why doesn't that make me feel any better? Lol!

Ahhhhhh... . Misery loves company?  LOL

Bruceli, still not feeling better.

LOL!

These relationships run hot and cold (push and pull) as far as initimacy, and sex is just a form of intimacy.   You certaintly aren't alone in this Dreamflyer, many members have asked about this over the years.  Have you talked to him about it?

Oh yes, as Mono No Aware said, it's a minefield of a "discussion." Definitely triggers his "why's it always about me?" (Yeh, I keep wondering the same thing... . how 'bout YOU tell ME?) Well, I guess because, um, I'M interested and YOU are NOT? This goes in the pile of topics that because they might involve him changing anything, they trigger his outburst/frustration/anger/TANTRUM. Maybe I just don't know how to talk with him in the right way yet, i'm still new at this! It generally becomes a finger pointing exercise where he tells me all the ways I should be helping him. Uh... .

I wasn't prepared for "Marriage! The New Celibacy!"

Has your H had a physical lately? Maybe low T or ED? 

Martillo, he's pretty shy about it all, I think it's really really hard for him to think about aging. I've learned that he's very big on SAYing he'll do something but then the follow thru is not really there. I know he has talked to his doctor and at one point he got some medication, and that's when I started seeing the "on his terms" thinking. "What will it do for ME?" was how that went, but then it turned out the medication made his stomach bleed, so... . Vulnerability is a problem for LOTS of people I know, but it seems to be a bigger problem for him with his set of issues.

It all seems so mental for him, and part of this bigger issue of "what about ME?" even though everything does seem to be about him anyway. But he doesn't seem to feel that.

I think the most difficult part for me is that I've spent years in therapy with an awesome T and worked to get past my reacting from the past, but he seems content to leave his life like it is and make it my fault and not participate in our mutual life. I guess i'm still just getting used to what this whole BPD thing is and how it affects them.

But on a positive note, check out MY mad skills! I quoted NOT 1, NOT 2, but 3 people in this post! That was a personal best.

[tiredpartner]

My BPDp wants it all the time. The issue we have is that he is very insecure about it. Since the very beginning he has expressed his fear that he's not good enough, he doesn't please me, he has a small * or I think of other people during. He has perseverated on this for 8 years, obsessively. Sometimes he pretends he's joking but I tell him it's not true and it's not funny to me and remind him sometimes he's not joking. None of those things are true. He is the most passionate, intense lover I have ever been with. I wish he knew. Because of his projections I've always worried that he says these things because he is projecting on top of his feelings of inadequacy. But anyway, I have physical and emotional issues that keep me from wanting it like he does. He's not always so sensitive about my reasons. I don't feel he takes me seriously when instead of taking it to heart he obsesses on "he's not good enough for me". I'll admit I do forgot to validate at times, it gets exhausting. It's hard to validate when our feelings don't always get validated. I'm so glad you said "I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?". I know they project, but I didn't know other people actually said that same exact thing in THEIR heads, too. So many times. I suppose I didn't answer any questions for you, I'm just happy to find people I can relate to. It's very empowering. I'm sorry you're having this issue. Neither extreme is fun. My answer is always honesty and communication (not that it works all that well for us, but that's just who I am). It's a mystery. We want intimacy, our BPDp want intimacy, if only they responded well to logic and compromise. Good luck, I hope it turns around for you.

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm so glad you said "I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?". I know they project, but I didn't know other people actually said that same exact thing in THEIR heads, too. So many times. I suppose I didn't answer any questions for you, I'm just happy to find people I can relate to. It's very empowering.

Tired Partner (and your name kinda says it all!) glad I could help! LOL

It is nice to know we're not alone, even if we can't "fix" it. My uBPDh said tonight that he can tell i'm feeling different than I have, in a good way. Last year my sister died and it's been tough dealing with that (she was the only family I really had left and she was great) and my dearly beloved's stuff as I've been coming to understand all his craziness. So he thinks I feel all better and on the mend because I've made more peace with my sister's death, but a lot of my peace of the moment is because i'm finally understanding what I cannot expect from him. Somehow that's a bit of a release, knowing that hey, I just can't count on him meeting my emotional needs or needs for intimacy and affection! i'm not THRILLED with the prospect of possibly spending the next 20 years without sex or affection, but shoot, what's 20 years, right? :-P

I know i'll feel differently tomorrow or the next day, but at the moment it's a bit of a relief knowing I can't expect those things from him. Weird. but true.

It sounds like it's common for there to be "performance anxiety" for the pwBPD, I suppose because there's a risk of disappointing. It's such an interesting balancing act trying to do self care and relearn my whole life's worth of Ways to React. Fun and games, yay.

[bruceli]

I'm so glad you said "I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?". I know they project, but I didn't know other people actually said that same exact thing in THEIR heads, too. So many times. I suppose I didn't answer any questions for you, I'm just happy to find people I can relate to. It's very empowering.

Tired Partner (and your name kinda says it all!) glad I could help! LOL

It is nice to know we're not alone, even if we can't "fix" it. My uBPDh said tonight that he can tell i'm feeling different than I have, in a good way. Last year my sister died and it's been tough dealing with that (she was the only family I really had left and she was great) and my dearly beloved's stuff as I've been coming to understand all his craziness. So he thinks I feel all better and on the mend because I've made more peace with my sister's death, but a lot of my peace of the moment is because i'm finally understanding what I cannot expect from him. Somehow that's a bit of a release, knowing that hey, I just can't count on him meeting my emotional needs or needs for intimacy and affection! i'm not THRILLED with the prospect of possibly spending the next 20 years without sex or affection, but shoot, what's 20 years, right? :-P

I know i'll feel differently tomorrow or the next day, but at the moment it's a bit of a relief knowing I can't expect those things from him. Weird. but true.

It sounds like it's common for there to be "performance anxiety" for the pwBPD, I suppose because there's a risk of disappointing. It's such an interesting balancing act trying to do self care and relearn my whole life's worth of Ways to React. Fun and games, yay.

Never thought about this mostly because DW always claims that she is a very open and sexual person... . Once again projection rearing it's ugly head.  Also, this weekend after a heated discussion about this very matter of clashing libidos... . come to find out that she has not been taking her hormones as is has been doing.  When I confronted her her about her diminished drive and not taking them... . SILENCE... . and no answer... .   Another test no doubt... .

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm so glad you said "I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?". I know they project, but I didn't know other people actually said that same exact thing in THEIR heads, too. So many times. I suppose I didn't answer any questions for you, I'm just happy to find people I can relate to. It's very empowering.

Tired Partner (and your name kinda says it all!) glad I could help! LOL

It is nice to know we're not alone, even if we can't "fix" it. My uBPDh said tonight that he can tell i'm feeling different than I have, in a good way. Last year my sister died and it's been tough dealing with that (she was the only family I really had left and she was great) and my dearly beloved's stuff as I've been coming to understand all his craziness. So he thinks I feel all better and on the mend because I've made more peace with my sister's death, but a lot of my peace of the moment is because i'm finally understanding what I cannot expect from him. Somehow that's a bit of a release, knowing that hey, I just can't count on him meeting my emotional needs or needs for intimacy and affection! i'm not THRILLED with the prospect of possibly spending the next 20 years without sex or affection, but shoot, what's 20 years, right? :-P

I know i'll feel differently tomorrow or the next day, but at the moment it's a bit of a relief knowing I can't expect those things from him. Weird. but true.

It sounds like it's common for there to be "performance anxiety" for the pwBPD, I suppose because there's a risk of disappointing. It's such an interesting balancing act trying to do self care and relearn my whole life's worth of Ways to React. Fun and games, yay.

Never thought about this mostly because DW always claims that she is a very open and sexual person... . Once again projection rearing it's ugly head.  Also, this weekend after a heated discussion about this very matter of clashing libidos... . come to find out that she has not been taking her hormones as is has been doing.  When I confronted her her about her diminished drive and not taking them... . SILENCE... . and no answer... .   Another test no doubt... .

That's such an odd thing, Bruceli. I don't pretend to understand much of this dance. I just know my H will do the "she was so good looking" Man Talk, I guess to keep up appearances. But when it comes down to us he says I should be doing more for him to get him interested... . but then he will also say he's afraid to disappoint. So I don't honestly know if either of those is real, so much of what he says about us isn't. I don't understand. I so VERY don't understand. But I guess i'm gonna need to figure out how to deal.

and "clashing libidos"... . I don't know how old you are so you may not know the reference, but the dualing banjos scene from Deliverance comes to mind... .

[bruceli]

I'm so glad you said "I can't tell you how many million times I thot "how does he know what I'm thinking?". I know they project, but I didn't know other people actually said that same exact thing in THEIR heads, too. So many times. I suppose I didn't answer any questions for you, I'm just happy to find people I can relate to. It's very empowering.

Tired Partner (and your name kinda says it all!) glad I could help! LOL

It is nice to know we're not alone, even if we can't "fix" it. My uBPDh said tonight that he can tell i'm feeling different than I have, in a good way. Last year my sister died and it's been tough dealing with that (she was the only family I really had left and she was great) and my dearly beloved's stuff as I've been coming to understand all his craziness. So he thinks I feel all better and on the mend because I've made more peace with my sister's death, but a lot of my peace of the moment is because i'm finally understanding what I cannot expect from him. Somehow that's a bit of a release, knowing that hey, I just can't count on him meeting my emotional needs or needs for intimacy and affection! i'm not THRILLED with the prospect of possibly spending the next 20 years without sex or affection, but shoot, what's 20 years, right? :-P

I know i'll feel differently tomorrow or the next day, but at the moment it's a bit of a relief knowing I can't expect those things from him. Weird. but true.

It sounds like it's common for there to be "performance anxiety" for the pwBPD, I suppose because there's a risk of disappointing. It's such an interesting balancing act trying to do self care and relearn my whole life's worth of Ways to React. Fun and games, yay.

Never thought about this mostly because DW always claims that she is a very open and sexual person... . Once again projection rearing it's ugly head.  Also, this weekend after a heated discussion about this very matter of clashing libidos... . come to find out that she has not been taking her hormones as is has been doing.  When I confronted her her about her diminished drive and not taking them... . SILENCE... . and no answer... .   Another test no doubt... .

That's such an odd thing, Bruceli. I don't pretend to understand much of this dance. I just know my H will do the "she was so good looking" Man Talk, I guess to keep up appearances. But when it comes down to us he says I should be doing more for him to get him interested... . but then he will also say he's afraid to disappoint. So I don't honestly know if either of those is real, so much of what he says about us isn't. I don't understand. I so VERY don't understand. But I guess i'm gonna need to figure out how to deal.

and "clashing libidos"... . I don't know how old you are so you may not know the reference, but the dualing banjos scene from Deliverance comes to mind... .

Very well aware to the above reference... . DW seems to be going down a path of, and for lack of a better term, self awareness right now... . Just this weekend after beer # 6 and a Xanax said to me... . I don't need to try anymore with you because I know that I have you... . Nuff said huh?

[DreamFlyer99]

(okay Bruceli, I clearly messed up the quote process, but this be you--)



Very well aware to the above reference... . DW seems to be going down a path of, and for lack of a better term, self awareness right now... . Just this weekend after beer # 6 and a Xanax said to me... . I don't need to try anymore with you because I know that I have you... . Nuff said huh?

WOW. Just WOW.

I guess that 6th beer (coupled with Xanax? Does she have a death wish?) hit her Honesty Button. And there's nothing like hearing how "convenient" you are. I HATE THAT. I've heard "I know I take you for granted." which for most people would indicate there was a change to be made. It took me a loong time with my T to realize how much of what he says is just that, stuff he SAYS.

I am so sorry. i'm pretty sure this is the part in the movie where everybody has an Awakening and Things Turn Around (at least in the kind of movies i'm willing to watch.) How did you deal with this new and exciting piece of information?

[bruceli]

(okay Bruceli, I clearly messed up the quote process, but this be you--)



Very well aware to the above reference... . DW seems to be going down a path of, and for lack of a better term, self awareness right now... . Just this weekend after beer # 6 and a Xanax said to me... . I don't need to try anymore with you because I know that I have you... . Nuff said huh?

WOW. Just WOW.

I guess that 6th beer (coupled with Xanax? Does she have a death wish?) hit her Honesty Button. And there's nothing like hearing how "convenient" you are. I HATE THAT. I've heard "I know I take you for granted." which for most people would indicate there was a change to be made. It took me a loong time with my T to realize how much of what he says is just that, stuff he SAYS.I am so sorry. i'm pretty sure this is the part in the movie where everybody has an Awakening and Things Turn Around (at least in the kind of movies i'm willing to watch.) How did you deal with this new and exciting piece of information?

My reply to the first quote... . I've come to realize this also... . stuff she says and feels just so that she can make HERSELF feel better.  Has no truth to it in most cases and she doesn't care what she is saying so long as she can make herself feel better.

As for the second quote... . Pretty much knew that already having read and learned from all the info and people here... . Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

[DreamFlyer99]

i give up on the quote thing. I've tried 4 times now and can't get it right... .

Quoting from you:

Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

i know I've heard the term and probably even read about it, but now i need to go look it up--our Beloveds seem weirdly similar.

[Scout99]

Hi everybody!

I just found this thread, and how thankful I am that this topic has come up! I am new here and having a sort of long distance relationship with an undiagnosed BPD man... . And I am definitely experiencing problems in this area too with my man. And I have been wrecking my brain trying to figure out what it is all about, but don't think I have found all the keys yet... .

Now I am from a scandinavian country, so sex is important... . LOL... . so this is something I'm not willing to give up on without some kind of war-effort... . anyway... .

To Dream-Flyer99 who had the courage to post this thread: Kudos to you for doing so and even more Kudos for showing that a good sex-life is just as important when we grow older as when we are young. I myself am in my mid 40's and I certainly intend to be able to have a good sexlife until I can't open my eyes anymore! So this is an important topic and most of what I have read in books, borderlines are more or less described as either sxual predators or at least having an unusually strong libido... . Now I think those assessments are wrong! Instead I think just like some of you, that the intimacy issues present in a lot of ways will affect the sex drive to a very large extent in a borderline, either making them want excessive amounts of sex, (which don't make them so very different from most people... .  ), or sexually fearsome, and withdrawn... . And we I think as partners must be getting better at figuring out which and finding a way through this to, as with so much else when it comes to these disorders... .

When I read your first post, Dream-Flyer99 I also thought of you know maybe there are medical issues or just poor health, feeling heavy and unbalanced hormone levels and so on, and perhaps that is part of the picture... . But I can't help but think that when such issues arise, that are normal in the ageing process or in relation to perhaps not eating or exercising properly... . What will it do to the mind of a borderline? Will it not very quickly transform itself into fear of abandonment, fear of performing badly, fear of disappointing ones partner in a way that quickly spirals out of proportion, like most small things have a tendency to do for our BPD loved ones... . ?

And then given that the area of sex is one of the most complex and sensitive area of our human mind anyway... . makes it all even worse... .

Again... . I think this is a very important area to explore and investigate, since I also think that if this area is functioning well in the relationship, then other problems somewhat at least diminish... . So maybe there could be a way to create some sort of safe-zone built around that... . I don't know how... . I just brainstorm here... .

Anyway here is how the problems play out in our case... . I appreciate any input you might have, and do also apologize if anyone finds some things a bit to explicit... . it is not my intent to do anything but trying to paint a clear picture... .

When we first met my BPD was very sexually open, which is something I appreciate at least within normal limits. We could talk very openly about sex, what we both liked, not liked and we could share even sexual fantasies with each other in a way I haven't experienced with anyone before. And that felt truly safe for me. One of them for him is that he is somewhat drawn towards light dominance, that is he likes to have control in bed over the woman. I on the other hand like a man to be a man, and coming from a country where equality sometimes turns men into sexual wuzzies choosing to rather knit a sweater or check on their make up, I sort of appreciate the men who actually dare to be men. And don't mind if my man can truly grab hold of me... .  Anyway sexually we were a match made in heaven. And I know we both think so. It also felt extremely intimate. And I felt so blessed having met a truly wonderful man.

Now... . already the first time we had met, the day after a fantastic evening and night he displayed having a splitting headache... . (Different ailments like, backpain, stomachache or upset stomach, headaches, toothaches, old injury aches, u name it... . affect him and his mood enormously). And the headache made it then impossible for him to make love to me again, even though he said he wanted to... .

This has then become a very common scenario. And sometimes we can meet several times without having sex at all... . because of some ailment or other... .

Connected to this is his tendency to push and pull, (that I have written more about in my initial post in the newbie section), that is he most of the time wants to plan for a future together, but the next minute he can get himself into total despair and lose all hope on a future together and then his defenses kicks in and he tells me things like he doesn't like the city I live in, he will never move there since he won't find a great apartment there (for free... .  ), he much rather live someplace else, and he will now look for another woman who lives closer to him... . bla bla... . And then the next morning he can call and talk about how we will decorate the kitchen in our mutual future home and how he can't wait to get back to the city where I live, (and he used to live), to move in with me... .

Now when we go through these patches, he also stops wanting to have sex with me... . And in the beginning, that didn't hang in there for long, and he started to flirt and sweetly talk dirty to me and talk about the next time we meet and having sex and so on which gets me going like no other man has ever managed to... .

But the last few times we have met... . nothing... .

And this doesn't seem like something he wants to talk about either... . He has at one point said that he can't handle it "right now". (I don't know what he means exactly by that, but it has something to do with both percieved expectations and or loss of hope over being able to create a mutual home or live at the same place). He has given small clues like saying that he feels too much stress from work, or about his life in general. He has also somewhat hinted a connection to the fear of abandonment, like the times he has said that he knows he will inevitably loose me, and that he doesn't want to get too close because of that... . But at other times he can just say he has "his period"... .  or an ache of some sort... .

I want to stress out that I have never ever in anyway demanded sex or requested it! To the contrary, I like to allow him to be the instigator and the dominant. So it is not a matter of whining or nagging here! On the contrary I have chosen to be very accepting to his wish, I mean what woman is dumb enough to step over a mans frail ego... . ?  I might have flirted a bit or so, but that he usually just likes, so pressure is not the problem here... .

But he sometimes acts like it is anyway, like one time he even started to frantically send me texts when I was just passing through his town and had asked to come up for a short coffee-break on my way to a meeting in another town... . , where he wanted me to make sure that we weren't going to have sex... . I was just surpirsed at the question and driving my car I just wrote "yes". Which he probably misunderstood so I got another text with more reasons, like headache, stress and whatnot, but also that he really wanted me to come... . And then I replied: "Ok!". Which he replied making a joke saying I had forgotten one exclamation mark... .  He is funny my wonderful man, that is so unfairly troubled... .   :'(

Anyway... . to get to the bottom of this I have also started thinking about some of his sexual fantasies... . Since the strongest one he has is about letting his female partner be with other men... . That is he claims he sort of gets aroused by the feeling of jealousy... . And he would both enjoy watching his partner be flirted with by other men as well as having intercourse... . If interested in threesomes he wants there to be only one woman, his woman, and then one or more men... . Not ever more women... . And he is fascinated by the idea of having a relationship that is open in one end, that is the man has to be faithful, but the woman can cuckold him... . I don't know... . It just might be some sort of trend like having sex with a "milf" became ha huge thing in my country a few years ago... . Or it is connected to some of his core beliefs about himself?

Now could this too be about protecting oneself from the fear of abandonment? I mean allowing your woman to have sex with other men might protect a bit against both her potential abandonment as well as giving some sort of control over the situation, at least taking out the horrible finding out a cheating partner... . ? What do you think? Or does any of you experience something like this?

Tiredpartner wrote that her problem is the opposite, her man wanting sex all the time, but being very insecure about his performance... . I notice that my man who also likes to be dominant, and a wonderful lover in all aspects at the same time also is very concerned about his performance. So it is like both assertiveness and somewhat an expression of feeling very safe on a superficial level, being a man who is strong enough to allow other men to be with his woman... . (as long as I know you love me, like he says... . ). But at the same time... . a camouflaged fear of not being good enough to keep his woman faithful?

I when I come to think of it have also noticed that he sometimes also says that he sometimes wants to just make the sweetest love just holding me, and so he also has - which is wonderful... . But mostly he gives me the impression that he likes the dominance more... . But which is really true?

Maybe all of this is really about extreme fear of intimacy and or abandonment? (I do like to stress out that I am a very monogamous woman, and would not at all be comfortable being with other men if I were in a relationship, so I only engage in his fantasies on a strictly fantasy-level. I do believe in being able to express secret fantasies and desires within a healthy relationship... . ).

What say you? Is this about fear of abandonment, intimacy and so on... . ? And how can we as partners help in creating a safe place or platform to overcome these issues?

Like Tiredpartner stressed out so intelligently... . we all want intimacy with each other... . I add - how can we build the bridge?

May all of you be blessed here! I thank you again for participating in this honest and loving forum. And especially commend DreamFlyer99 for her courage to start this thread!

scout99

[DreamFlyer99]

BRUCELI, this was to you:

i give up on the quote thing. I've tried 4 times now and can't get it right... .

Quoting from you:

Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

i know I've heard the term and probably even read about it, but now i need to go look it up--our Beloveds seem weirdly similar.

[DreamFlyer99]

Hi everybody!

I just found this thread, and how thankful I am that this topic has come up!

Like Tiredpartner stressed out so intelligently... . we all want intimacy with each other... . I add - how can we build the bridge?

May all of you be blessed here! I thank you again for participating in this honest and loving forum. And especially commend DreamFlyer99 for her courage to start this thread!

scout99

Gee thanks, scout (look! we must be related cuz we both have the same last name, "99"!) I'm finding the whole Scandinavian spin very interesting since I know very little about your culture other than its "freeness" to do whatever. I on the other hand, come from a very uptight upbringing, so for me to be asking my H for sex is pretty astonishing. By his expressions you'd think I was asking him to eat bugs!

I want to give your response my full attention, so i'll be back to do that in a while. For the moment i'm going to go box with my trainer! LOL! We've never tried this before, we're usually fairly careful to not overdo because of my chronic pain and fatigue thing, but I think it will be a good way to work off some of my aggression.

The one thing I will give my thoughts on at the moment about your reply is, are you prepared to go through way more changes with your BPD than you have already in the short time you've been together? My H and I have been together for 37 years, and the ebb and flow of all things physical has been really really rough, but the most in the recent years. And our early years were GREAT in that department, so changes have been EXTREME. And the BPDness doesn't just affect them regarding sex (as you've already seen) but this vascilating fear/control whatever it is shows up with finances and vacations and bosses and e v e r y  t i n y part of their lives. So be aware, it's a wild ride and you need to make careful preparations... .

Be back later. Gotta go pummel my trainer.

[bruceli]

BRUCELI, this was to you:

i give up on the quote thing. I've tried 4 times now and can't get it right... .

Quoting from you:

Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

i know I've heard the term and probably even read about it, but now i need to go look it up--our Beloveds seem weirdly similar.

That stuff they say is just that... . STUFF?  That one?

[bruceli]

To scout 99... . In the begining sex to a pwPD is a hook/ and for a lack of a better term... . obligation.  pwPD go through many shallow/meaningless R/S's.  However, when the come across those of us who actually love/care for them and we don't run for the mountains... . The fear of engulfment/intimacy is extremely scary to them.  The reason being is that they know that their personality (disorder) will get in the way of the R/S and eventually we tired and leave so they then have to withdraw to protect themselves and their feelings.  It's like this... . Holy cr$p... . I'm falling for this person but I know i'm screw up and they will eventually leave and that will be devestating so I need to ramp up the bad behaviors and get rid of them before they get rid of me and the longer I let this go on the more painful it will be for me... .

[DreamFlyer99]

BRUCELI, this was to you:

i give up on the quote thing. I've tried 4 times now and can't get it right... .

Quoting from you:

Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

i know I've heard the term and probably even read about it, but now i need to go look it up--our Beloveds seem weirdly similar.

That stuff they say is just that... . STUFF?  That one?

Sorry, I should just go look it up. I just didn't know what a "cluster B" person was... . Mayo Clinic says: Cluster B personality disorders. These are personality disorders characterized by dramatic, overly emotional thinking or behavior This seems to fit the people several others I've seen on the boards talk about who have such a flare for the dramatic and probably often end up as Performers of some type! My brother's wife seems to fit this, and I think it's the same as the mom in the memoir entitled "Chanel Bonfire" who would make huge dramatic scenes. (Fascinating book btw!) My uH doesn't seem to be as much that way, and I don't know how to describe what's different, but I've known people who struck me as more "histrionic" or whatever, and there's a certain vibe to them.

Here's the one I was quoting from. Also I find the thought about "things she does to make herself feel better" just niggling at the back of my brain... . I feel like that fits in my case with my uH, and I need to think on that... .

(okay Bruceli, I clearly messed up the quote process, but this be you--)



Very well aware to the above reference... . DW seems to be going down a path of, and for lack of a better term, self awareness right now... . Just this weekend after beer # 6 and a Xanax said to me... . I don't need to try anymore with you because I know that I have you... . Nuff said huh?

WOW. Just WOW.

I guess that 6th beer (coupled with Xanax? Does she have a death wish?) hit her Honesty Button. And there's nothing like hearing how "convenient" you are. I HATE THAT. I've heard "I know I take you for granted." which for most people would indicate there was a change to be made. It took me a loong time with my T to realize how much of what he says is just that, stuff he SAYS.I am so sorry. i'm pretty sure this is the part in the movie where everybody has an Awakening and Things Turn Around (at least in the kind of movies i'm willing to watch.) How did you deal with this new and exciting piece of information?

My reply to the first quote... . I've come to realize this also... . stuff she says and feels just so that she can make HERSELF feel better.  Has no truth to it in most cases and she doesn't care what she is saying so long as she can make herself feel better.

As for the second quote... . Pretty much knew that already having read and learned from all the info and people here... . Pretty common behavior/response from a cluster B pwPD.

[DreamFlyer99]

Hi everybody!

I just found this thread, and how thankful I am that this topic has come up! I am new here and having a sort of long distance relationship with an undiagnosed BPD man... . And I am definitely experiencing problems in this area too with my man. And I have been wrecking my brain trying to figure out what it is all about, but don't think I have found all the keys yet... .

Now I am from a scandinavian country, so sex is important... . LOL... . so this is something I'm not willing to give up on without some kind of war-effort... . anyway... .

scout99

Scout of the 99 tribe:

Clearly my H is NOT from a Scandinavian country! 

Boy does your relationship sound complicated! Are you trying to "fix" him a bit? i'm learning (finally) that fixing him isn't my job, and that my job seems to be a joyous combination of self-care via boundaries etc, and relearning how to talk ever so carefully with my uBPD.

I've spent so long living these ways in reverse: NOT taking care of myself, NOT understanding good boundaries, NOT speaking the right way to him and just making it worse. But I guess I've started down the right path at least and may have a chance of living with less stress eventually before I die.

Hm. I seem to be less positive in feeling than I was yesterday! 

Question to those who have made it much further down the path than I: is there ever a time where the speech becomes easier and you become less stressed by the BPD's control/fear response/anger/frustration? I can barely stand the thought of all i'm likely to never have in this relationship, but I've never imagined being anywhere else than with him... .

And Scout99, I wish I had any clue about how to deal with your guy's issues!