Need some help with a situation that has come up... again... :/

[Scout99]

Hi everyone!

Thank God I have found this board where there is such wonderful people who understands what it is like to have a person with BPD in your life... . I am forever grateful to you!

My BPD bf and I live in different cities three hours apart, by car, so naturally we can't meet everyday, but still see each other often. Now his vacation is coming up and we have talked for ages about how great it will be to be able to meet for a bit longer periods of time together. Of course since he is BPD, making any detailed plans have been impossible, but since we are experiencing a great summer here, short little trips and just being able to have some everyday life together has been something we both feel would be great and so on... .

Now, every time we are about to see each other for a little longer periods of time than a short weekend visit, (and sometimes even before them), he starts fretting about some minor thing in his life, and before I know it it suddenly involves me and makes it sort of impossible for our relationship to go on... .    

I have seen it coming for a few days, the small signs that his anxiety is increasing, the sound of his voice, less phone calls, and shorter texts and that irritations lurks like an undercurrent in his voice... .

Now we always talk for a bit in the morning before going to work, and then usually also one or a couple of times in the evening... . Always on his initiative! He loves hearing my voice in the morning... .

Now when his anxiety is rising, he starts to for instance text me in the morning saying he feels this and that, usually headaches or stress about work, and asks if we could talk in the evening instead... . And then when I reply, ok, he wants to talk on the hone anyway... . "For five minutes" as he writes, but usually talks for about half an hour anyway... .

I need your help now in trying to deal differently with a thing

Have any of you been through the same thing with your partners?

How did you cope with it, deal with it? What do you think it is all about?

Anyway: yesterday was such a day as described above, when he didn't want to talk at first, but then wanted it anyway... . He had told me the day before that his car had broken down and that he had gotten it to the shop, and he was not making a big deal about it then... . Now he told me there might be a couple of weeks waiting period at the mechanics but said (without me bringing up the subject or asking), that he would gladly take the train or bus to see me if things came to that... . I didn't even bother with it since I can just as we'll go to see him... . So we moved on to talking about other things... . He asked what I was going to do during the day, and I told him I had been invited to go with my neighbor to her summerhouse for the day and would be back the day after. I could here on his voice that something didn't sit right with him about that, but chose not to ask about it... . We said we would talk or text in the evening as usual.

Then I heard nothing for the entire day. And usually that means he's had a rough day at work, (usually fretting about something). So I texted him and asked how his day had been, and that I missed him where I was... .

No reply

This morning he texted me a long reply... .

"Morning! My day was quite ok, but I feel so darn limited when one can't get to anywhere without the car - U get used to having it fast... .

If/when we meet again, there will be no sex and no hugs or kisses or making out - I can't handle it and you know why.

Hugs"

You know what? I don't get it, really! I can't put together simple car trouble and kissing... .  and I don't like the underlying threat and drama invitation of never seeing each other again. And I don't like being suddenly reduced to a simple "hugs" at the end... .

You know why, refers to his recurring fretting about whether or not he will find job and a place to stay where I live... . Which he only frets about when his anxiety is shooting through the roof... . I have never ever pushed the issue of either living together or him moving. Frankly because I think it is too soon... . We are still in the face of getting to know each other and if we let things have it's course, then most of the practical stuff will solve itself... . I am very much also a person who likes to live in the here and now, and not so much in the unforeseen future... . And to be honest I think that is one of the things he likes best with me... . And when he is out of the anxiety spell, then he shares my take on this to a T... .

Now I have seen this or versions of this over and over again... . And I do understand it is about him, his disorder and bla bla... . But I still don't like it!

And I really have to fight the urge not to get into a discussion about it right then and there... . I know it is useless.

But what should I do? What can I do I terms of not leaving the relationship which of course always is an option... . But if I want to stay, how do I best deal with this?

What I did this time was I chose not to engage at all... . I replied that I had been up late and had taken a few drinks so I was in a bit of a hangover... . (lie which I don't like to do it was true though I had only slept for a few hours), so I asked if it would be ok with him if we could move our morning talk to the evening so I could get some more sleep.

He replied: ok but I"ll only be able to talk on my way home from work... . hugs

Which tells me he didn't like my answer... . He never ends his texts with "hugs" always kisses or more or nothing at all if he's in a hurry or if everything is just fine between us... . Never "hugs... . "

So hugs to me means trouble ahead... .  

Now I don't know what to do next... . Should I talk to him tonight? What should I say? What to avoid? How do I help to put him at ease without agreeing to him tanking this further, which he sometimes does, when the fretting is intense... . (He then says he will start looking for other women to date who live closer to him... . Tells me I should not expect him to be faithful as long as we live so far apart and so on... . Things he later, when back to normal, he lets me know he has never really planned to go through with... . But things that still hurt and makes me not feel so good to be honest since they cause worry for me... .

I replied to his response about talking only on his way home after work, (which knowing him and knowing he has a lot of issues concerning phones, since most of his problems at work has to do with lots of phone calls... . -is about him not wanting to use his phone when he gets home... . )

I therefore replied that he could beep me whenever he wanted to talk... .

I need your help!

Some background that sets the scene a little better... . :

For those who don't know, I am in a relationship with an uBPD man who lives a three hour drive from where I live. The distance thing is really no biggie when he is in a "normal" mode.

And this is a recurring thing... . Like a self playing piano. When in normal mode, his thoughts of the future are to move from where he lives and hopefully get a job nearer to where I live, (where he has lived before). The reason for this is not just me, but the fact that he doesn't like his current job and feels lonely where he lives, and wants to either come back to my city or move closer to where his family lives, which is also a bit closer to me... .

He talks a lot about our future together. But every time we are about to meet, when there have gone a little too long time since we last saw each other, he starts having these rants.

He starts fretting over some minor thing, like the car breaking down, toothache, headaches, trouble, (or fear of trouble at work), fear of never getting out of his job situation or... . or... . or... .

And sometimes he always ends up with jumping to these illogical conclusions where he threatens the whole relationship and puts up these unreasonable terms and trying to discuss it with him while he is in the mode, just makes things way worse... . The terms are always about how he wants to keep having me in his life but "if or when" we meet again there will be no sex, no hugs and kisses, in short, no relationship... .

I understand it must be a fear thing, like fear of intimacy and or abandonment, since he often follows statements like this with longer rants about how he knows he will eventually loose me, how that is inevitable, how he often feels this loneliness, void inside and so on... . (His wording, not mine even though it is textbook BPD... . ).

Then it usually turns around and the first signs of that is usually that he says things like I have felt so lost for such a long time, but lately, and partly because I have met you I am starting to find some hope again, and see the end of the tunnel and so on... .

Usually It all goes away in a a few days or a week or so and then he is his usual self again, talking about the next time we meet, when He moves and we live together, about things he wants to do w me and addresses him and me as an "us"... .

And sex, kisses and all that is not an issue again... . And the texts go back to normal and don't end with "hugs" instead of "kisses" and so on... .

However it has lately caused a lot of cancelled trips, changed plans and not to say the least worry on my part... . So I feel I need a bit of help now... . I don't want this to escalate... .

How do I best address these rants or anxiety attacks or whatever they are best in the moment without having to go through such a roller coaster and make it easier for us to get out of them in a more smooth way, if possible. Or at least see to that we can stick to plans that has been made... . ?

What are the right things to say, not to say?

I appreciate all input I can get from you guys!

Scout99

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Scout99 

Sounds to me like he's baiting you with the texts (meaning looking to start a discussion/fight). You did well in responding as you did. Don't buy into it.

When you talk tonight, validate if you wish, but don't let it drag on and on with criticisms or accusations about you. If the conversations gets too draining on you, politely tell him you have to go and then hang up.

It sounds like push-pull. My dBPDbf does it a lot, he usually comes around (to a loving place) faster when I don't buy into it.

[Scout99]

Hi Scout99 

Sounds to me like he's baiting you with the texts (meaning looking to start a discussion/fight). You did well in responding as you did. Don't buy into it.

When you talk tonight, validate if you wish, but don't let it drag on and on with criticisms or accusations about you. If the conversations gets too draining on you, politely tell him you have to go and then hang up.

It sounds like push-pull. My dBPDbf does it a lot, he usually comes around (to a loving place) faster when I don't buy into it.

Thank you for responding!

I do believe it is baiting on one level, however he is very fearful of fighting or even discussing too, so he will usually just make his statement stronger to bite me off and stop me from talking altogether... .

What would you suggest I validate if we talk tonight?

Shall I be understanding about him not wanting to see me again, ending our relationship or being understanding about him not wanting any physical contact? I feel so confused... .  

Scout99

[connect]

Hi Scout,

Sorry you have all this push/pull going on

I can relate to this very much. My bf does the same things when there are potential trigger situations approaching – these can be events he feels he “should” take me too ie weddings or spending extended time together. Typically things that involve planning and aren’t spur of the moment.

Yep we know that this is typical BPD behaviour so we know its not personal (although it feels like it is when you are in the midst of it)  The good news is that you seem to be very on the ball with spotting the signs of a disregulation episode. I think thats half the battle. I have only just started being aware of the signs (and they can be odd signs too like an increase in wild porn style sex! This frequently preceeds a disregulated episode bizarrely)

I also see the signs like you in general increase in irritation levels, his frustrations with other people, bad day at work, delay on answering texts, tired, aches and pains etc etc. That along with my knowledge that a trigger situation is approaching helps me gauge whats coming. I am expecting and am starting to see the signs of it myself over the last week or so as we have some time off coming up and some social events he will feel pressured to take me too.

My advice to you is to ignore his comments about ending things etc (mine also ended things once and talks about ending things when trigger situations are approaching) I don’t give these comments the time of day now. They still hurt sometimes but I am learning that they are a symptom of him being overwhelmed. The more you talk and give credence to these comments then the more solid they can become in his mind. ATM they are stream of consciousness things coming out of his mouth with no editing. I now go for the “curiosity” approach to these episodes. I go in like a scientist being curious as to what the core feelings are behind his  emotional outbursts. I would guess that underneath all the pushing and the irritation, underneath all the “lets end things” that there is a BPD person who is scared. Find out what that fear is. It is likely to be abandonment/engulfment fears. Mine says some very hurtful things about our r/s sometimes and how he should just be on his own forever when he is being triggered.

I find that knowing the core issues helps me to stay calm. The calmer I am the less likely it is to escalate. I ignore the FACTS of what he tells me in these states (ie I don’t want to kiss you anymore, we should be casual etc etc) as they are not how he feels the majority of the time – its from being triggered. Instead I validate ONLY the feelings behind it. I use language like “ It must be difficult to not have a car, does it make you feel trapped?” “It’s horrible being stressed by work, how does it make you feel?” I ask questions. When he starts talking he calms down. I then carry on as normal with the arrangements we have been making. I validate but gloss over the “end of the r/s” stuff. I think perhaps he may have felt some  abandonment triggers ref your summerhouse trip? IDK, the closer you get the more it would hurt if you left him?

I am still learning myself so am not an expert but have been/am getting a similar vibe off mine atm. Its great you see the signs and great that you know enough about BPD and the tools to navigate it.

[Scout99]

Thank you connect for your helpful reply!

I will definitely try your curiosity approach on this!

I do agree with you that sort of glossing over the r/s stuff has helped before even though these fret-sessions seem to escalate over time and increases the amount of cancelled "dates", which in turn seems to also increase the anxiety and it becomes a down going spiral. One that I would like to learn how to intercept and instead entice him to see me more which I know lowers the amount of fretting in him.

I realize that distance plays a role here and that things probably would be easier if we lived closer together. But for now things are as they are, and I need to find a strategy that works for now... .

For clarity he never really himself says he wants to end things, that is he doesn't want to loose me as he puts it but still then threatens to be with other women... . (Which would be devastating for me should it actually happen). So it is more a rhetoric saying that he wants me but doesn't want a ldr, which I suppose creates a constant source of conflict in him.

Not so though when he is in normal mode... .

Any thoughts on how to create more of a positive spin on things?

I am so grateful for these advice and for all the wonderful support from you guys! It eases a lot!

Scout99

[waverider]

If in doubt about what to validate and what not to, just ask questions/prompts without trying to provide solutions, and without following one question with another on the same subject ie probing for real answers. All you need to do is ask enough so the conversation bubbles along. He is thinking aloud not giving fully considered opinions. Just wants to know you are listening, but not interfering (to him questioning the validity of his thoughts).

During times of stress pwBPD do tend to have rambling thoughts without any consistency, try not to pin any of them down or attached too much weight to them. Let them float in and out again.

You wont be able to work out the logic to most of it, they can't even, there isn't any. That's why they get frustrated. If you add weight to their concerns you will attach a different balance than they do. Hence they become frustrated because you "got it all wrong"

Keep plans loose and flexible. As far as catching up goes sometimes best to say something like see to tomorrow afternoon, give me a call before you head over in the meantime have a think about what you want to do. You could suggest a few options to consider but don't fix anything. It takes pressure off. I find locking anything in tends to set them on the path to find reasons why not to do XYZ. The less time locked into plans the less the inability to be consistent has an effect.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Scout99

I see you got some excellent answers already, so I just wanted to send you lots of support!

[connect]

HI Scout,

How are things going?

Sorry I kept referring to end of the r/s type things - I think I was bringing some of my own stuff to the table there  its just a disregulation phrase I have heard from mine a few times before.

Am navigating some similar things here myself. I had to remind myself of the things I had said to you last night when I was listening to some stream of consciousness stuff coming from my ones mouth. Kept reminding myself it was just that - rambling with no editing. Went for the curiousity approach and got two apologies, one last night and one this morning. I think when we nons are tired it can be harder for us to not take it personally.

Let us know how things went 

[Scout99]

Thank You connect for your kind and insightful thoughts... .

I do think your references to ending r/s are applicable here, so I am thankful that you wrote about it... .

Quite frankly I am having a day when I am starting to loose a little bit of hope here... . :'(

On one hand I do believe this is just a dysregulation phase one of many... . It is just that lately the contents of them have increasingly evolved around him wanting to date other women, that lives closer to him and judging from some things he said yesterday and the content of his text the other day I feel an intense worry that he is about to set his plans in motion... .

His vacation starts tomorrow and I assume that is to him both a relief and a cause for intensified anxiety because he sort of has such elevated expectations that he sort of has to feel good now, and is so afraid of anything that might make him feel bad, hence elevated push and pull with me... .

His dysregulated pattern goes a little bit like this, I assume... . ;

I love her more than I have ever loved a woman, she is the best thing that has ever happened to me and I have never been able to be so open about myself to anyone as I can to her... . (I just want it said, that I think this is also a very exaggerated image of me, or at least one I can't live up to, just so no one gets the feeling I have an elevated image of myself... . I don't!  I am paraphrasing some of the things he often says).

Then comes fear... . : Maybe I will loose her someday... . If I do I will fall apart... . She makes me too vulnerable... .

Then comes defense... . : She lives to far away... . I don't want to have another long distance relationship, the last one I had bombed and she abandoned me... . I need to be able to see my girlfriend all the time and I don't want to have to plan for it... . It needs to be spontaneous... . Keep it simple, (is something he often says when he wants to describe himself... . I would say the device; Keep it complicated would be more to the truth... .  ).

Then comes reenforcement of the defense with expanded worry and fear... . : I will never be able to get a good job where she lives, (which is a lie, since where I live is where the jobs also are... . ), I will never find a good place to live there, and what if I would move in with her, and then she would abandon me? Then I would be thrown out on the street... .

Then comes the idea of a solution... . : I don't want to loose her, but I will find me a girlfriend back here where I live for now, so I don't have to feel so lonely or risk getting in to deep with her, who I love so much... .

Yes I know... . This is dysregulated... . I am of course not 100% sure this is how his mind works, but judging from the circles we have been through every time we are about to meet, I think I am getting close... .

Anyway... . judging from what he said to me over the phone both last night and this morning, I am getting worried that he might do something this time... . I mean this is the first time really we have an opportunity to see each other for as much as a couple of weeks. Something he as well as I have been longing for and talking about for months... . And I suppose since he frets a lot just when we are about to see each other for a day or a weekend... . Then this ought to elevate things for sure... .


What has happened since yesterday morning are the following... . :

As those of you know who have had the kindness to read through all my rambling in my initial post... . I dodged the bullit yesterday morning by handing him a little white lie about being hung over and in need to sleep a few more hours and asked if we could talk in the evening instead, when I was back home... . And his response to that was to set up terms for a talk by stating that could be accepted only when he was on his way home... . (yes he has phone issues too... . )

I just said ok, and that was the end of that... .

Around lunchtime he texted me that the car was fixed now with a ton of smiley's. (no kiss though as he normally would have written... .

I just validated and replied; Great! and added the usual kiss, since I normally would... .

Then I was about to get on the road to drive home from our excursion and I didn't have time to try to contact him while he was on his way home from work. In truth I probably could have, but I didn't feel like it, still feeling hurt by his early morning text (content can be found in my original post).

Around 6 pm he texted me again this time emphasizing his joy about his car... . He wrote;

"It's crazy really how a hopefully now functioning car can put one in such a great mood!"

Apparently an attempt to get in touch with me, at least he wanted to share his joy w me... . But again no kiss at the end... .

I was still in my car, so I didn't respond until I was home about an hour later. And I chose to again validate him for the happiness about the car, and told him about this great place by the sea where we had been during the day and added; I hope I get to take you there sometime... . And ended the note with a kiss... .

He responded almost immediately and just wrote:

Yesss You must! again w a bunch of smileys but no kiss... .

I still took it as a good sign since it sometimes takes a little while before he is back to normal completely... . But I can't tell you how happy I would have been just for a tiny tiny kiss at the end... .

Late last night he called me and he seemed happy and talked about the car and about how his friends at work were mocking him for not being able to fix it himself, looking for some validation from me, that not all men has to be mechanics... . it was apparently so important for him to get validation for that so he had also talked to the mechanic about it, who had reassured him a bit by saying that in this particular car, changing that particular thing was not something most people could do by themselves... . We also talked some about the place I had been to and he again said that he very much would like to go there with me and that "he was open to suggestions"... .

I chose not to get into that too much right then and there... .

And then it comes... . ; He tells me how good it feels to finally have his vacation and maybe I will get me some sex too now... . It's been a while, but it is looking promising... .

I my dumb ass think he means me, (which he might in reference to how reluctant he has been about that lately), so i gladly replied; Yess!

He then responds by saying, Yes, well you might not get any... . We'll have to see about that... .

I burned on the inside of me... . But I tried to keep it together and responded with a saying we have here that sort of goes; whoever lives will see... .

He replied; Yes, whoever lives will see... .

And then I could tell he wanted to end the conversation, so he just said he wanted to relax a bit on his own before sleeping, but made sure we would talk in the morning after. I chose not to make a thing of it and just reciprocated that he could call me in the morning as usual... .

This morning he texted as usual bright and early... . I didn't get much sleep last night since my thoughts were getting the best of me, and I felt worried because there was something in his tone and in what he said that made me feel that he must be talking to someone or flirting with someone... . Why else would he have said the things he said... .

He called me up and we talked a bit... . He told me he was going to celebrate the beginning of his vavation by sharing a bottle of wine with a friend of his, his neighbor, (a woman but whom he is just friends with). And ended that too with the somewhat strange remark. That it feels good to be able to do that, even though we are just friends... . At least we have each other... .

I didn't go there... . to explore it further. But I probably didn't sound my usual joyful self either, which he is very sensitive to, and picked up on. So we ended our morning talk a bit earlier than usual when he declared that I was tired and needed to sleep, (which is his way of saying, when in dysregulated mode, that I am not funny or happy enough, and that makes him feel bad... . He doesn't want to waste phone time on someone who is not making him feel good... . ). But again he wanted to make sure we would talk in the evening... .

Later I noticed he had been online on a community site, that is also a dating site that we have here, on which we are both members, and through which me met... . It is not just a dating site, so it is not a big deal to find him online there, but he never ever has contacted me or been online there while at work. But now he has for almost a week... . And again today... .

I might just be getting crazy or maybe the fretting is spreading to me... . But I feel worried and a bit paranoid about the whole thing... .

I have longed for and hoped for so much this time during the summer when we finally could get the chance to spend some true quality time together, and the fear of it all falling apart so close to the finishing line makes me both devastated and frustrated... .

I am i turmoil right now, so I apologize for that... . But maybe someone might get something out of reading that in the future, when they are going through something similar... .

I need to establish some boundary here... . I am truly not ok with him seeing others on the side... . And I will not be his friend or muse or future life while he is going to have another relationship with someone else while fretting through or figuring out how to be closer to me... . Or what the h*ll it is that is running through his dysregulated mind at the moment... .

Now how can I ask of him not to give up on us, without making it all worse... . ?

I don't want to be bailing out just yet... . I feel too much for this f**ked up guy to give up on him now... .

What do you wonderful and wise people out there think? What's your take on it... . Is there anything I can do apart from standing on the side just waiting for the disaster?

So many thanks to you all, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found my way here... .

scout99

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I am in turmoil right now, so I apologize for that... . But maybe someone might get something out of reading that in the future, when they are going through something similar... .

I need to establish some boundary here... . I am truly not ok with him seeing others on the side... . And I will not be his friend or muse or future life while he is going to have another relationship with someone else while fretting through or figuring out how to be closer to me... . Or what the h*ll it is that is running through his dysregulated mind at the moment... .

Now how can I ask of him not to give up on us, without making it all worse... . ?

I'm sorry you're going through this  

This clearly upsets you, so I think it's a good idea that you create a boundary around this. What it must be, only you can say. And also what you will do if the boundary is broken. Remember, pwBPD push boundaries, so be prepared to uphold it. Meaning don't make a boundary that you won't really uphold because you don't want to end it with him or something of that sort. He doesn't need to know your boundary, in fact if he does he might see it as an effort to control him and purposely try to break it.

How about asking him some open end questions, when you sense that he's not dysregulated, like "where do you see our relationship going?" or "what would like like our relationship to be like" or something, and validate his answer (listening-noises, just letting him talk, asking a question or two if you don't know what to say)

[connect]

Hi Scout,

I can relate to your feelings - they are jumping right off the page.

So when are you and your b/f due to spend the two weeks together? Is it soon? As he is on vacation now I assume it is soon? I am asking because some face to face time would be great to talk about this stuff.

I like your posts as they describe things so well from your perspective.

I can see how you could feel that something is going on with him but I would say that sometimes when us nons are on the receiving end of some unbalanced behaviour that in turn can unbalance US. I have often thought of all sorts of scenarios relating to my b/f that have not turned out to be true at all. I can see that this is due to my own levels of stress and sensitivity from dealing with disregulation or knowing that disregulation is brewing which in turn kind of disregulates ME.

I would say that yes its a good idea to know in your head what you will and will not accept in a r/s. The rules you both will have about it (they may differ) It is also good as Scarlet says to ask him. I keep these questions general like "what sort of things do you look for in a r/s?" So its less about you and him and more a theoretical question with less pressure. When I asked this question I got a very helpful reply from mine - he said "I want a best friend, someone on my side and if we have sex as well then that's great!"  Having heard this statement makes it easier for me to navigate the bad behaviours somehow (not sure why but it helped) I try to take more of an overview of the r/s as a whole rather then focusing on his behaviours right now. This is as I have realised that the behaviours can be quite changable. By the time we have analysed them through the night into the early hours they are quite often "forgotten" by our BPD's the next day.

So you feel very unsettled and you have a vibe that he is chatting to other women? Yep, you could ask him outright now but he could disregulate further. When they are calmer its easier to talk (as long as I dont label it as "a talk" with my one!) If you can hold on until your two weeks together that could be better - is that soon? Mine seems to increase his contact with his female friends periodically and it can drive me crazy, I am learning on these boards to accept that this is something he does. Its like a safety net for him and I think now that he relates to women better then he does to men when he is in his "emotional" frame of mind. I am practising radical acceptance and seeing where this takes me. Drives me nuts sometimes though to not jump in and try to control things.

I wonder if you feel like I do sometimes... . that there are all these unspoken questions hanging in the air? I don't like that feeling and am looking at ways to deal with this. The approach I am going for is to do my side of the r/s and try to leave him to do his side. Its hard when you think they are messing their side up though I realise. I am drip feeding my questions to him in a generalised unpressured format every now and then and am determined to start stating some of the things I am looking for now. I think I am a good g/f and I have become sure of that - the disregulation used to make me doubt it but I dont doubt it anymore. So no kisses on the texts? Been there. I carry on putting them on my texts as I still want to. He starts putting them back eventually. Mine pushed my (rather fuzzy) boundaries HARD (esp round female friendships) and what I have learnt from this is that I cant stop him doing anything. I have also learnt that what my boundaries are (the hard way) and think I will be better at enforcing them in future. One of the problems for me is that things I took for granted as "r/s rules" in a my previous non r/s's arent necessarily the same for him - the shock of coming up against this fact threw me off balance. I was not used to enforcing boundaries as such because I had never had to deal with them in a r/s in this way before - I assumed that he would be the same as me and previous b/f's in toning down his contact with ex's etc etc. . . I now have a firmer idea of what I want in the r/s so I have learnt something from this. I am still learning. I have learnt that some of the things I found threatening ended up not being an actual threat but more like different ways of relating. ie he would be overfamiliar to his female friends in a way that I wouldnt be with my male friends. Do I accept this? I am still working through these issues. I am rambling here! (Its late) I still have a long way to go but I found looking at the details and picking apart the individual phrases he uses didnt work for me I had to take an overview of the r/s as a whole whilst also protecting myself. One of the ways I protect myself is to learn the Tools so that disregulation doesnt esculate (am getting much better at this in the last month) I am finding that me being as calm and connsistant as I can be is helping me and the tools help me acheive that.

The other thing that is good is to think you dont have to react to stuff straight away, you can think about things and mull them over. I think I picked up "fleas" from my b/f and would react very emotionally instantly. Now I try to think - the situation will still be the same tomorrow or the day after so I can process my thoughts in my own time. No rush. So you may feel uncomfortable now and be concerned about his interactions. Take your time. Think about what you want. Think about general questions to ask him that may help you get more of a feel for his mindset. You know I dont think I have answered your post properly at all - someone more experienced will probably jump in with something more solid!

Have you read "Stop Walking On Eggshells"? It's a useful book. Also posts on here by Arabella, PatientandClear and Maybeso could be helpful to you. There is also a good video on Youtube by Dr Alan Fruzzetti about validation in families which is very good.

[Scout99]

Thank You connect for you support and insights and to Scarlet for your advice.

I think I messed it up and since Saturday evening he is gone NC with me... .

I think in a way he perhaps had planned it so, to begin with... . (the NC for the weekend that is, since I have reason to believe he is straying this weekend and doesn't want me to know about it... . ).

To answer your question, connect, we had not made any solid plans for his vacation-time... . (he cannot plan things at all, at least not with me... . ). He has been, like me, looking forward to this time where there would be an opportunity to see each other for a more lengthier time, though. But as always whenever we start getting down to business about seeing each other it sets of some serious dysregulation on his part... .

He then flips from his usual track of lovingly discussing a future with me, being ok about us living on different locations for a while and seems all normal and balanced - to a state where he doesn't want a long distance r/s at any cost, doesn't want to "loose himself" in love for a person who doesn't live where he lives, wants to date and have sex w other women, knows that eventually all this will lead to him loosing me, which he says would hurt him and something he is terrified of and therefore he wants us to be friends... . (That means suddenly no physical contact, but wants to go on trips and visits together and so on... . ). If I push this rantings about how different we suddenly are, that I don't work out as much as him, (which means we suddenly don't have any interests in common... . forgetting all the other things that we do like to do together and do have in common... . ), or again my address makes us incompatible... . Basically anything he can think of that will throw me off guard, and really can't be argued... .

The last day we spoke, (saturday), I could tell he was on edge mood-wise. I guess he was feeling restless and didn't really have enough to do to keep him busy, so during the day he fretted around town where he lives, was on the beach for about an hour, went shopping, went for lunch out on his own, and so on... .

Had he not the week before stated that he wanted his first three days of his vacation on his own, I could have been there, and things were probably have been good, for both of us... .

Instead he was alone, and started to build up some frustration... .

He talked about what I wanted to do with him when he was coming to see me, but then suddenly wanted to go into the sea to swing, (my guess not to get into any concrete planning... . )

Later he wanted me to call him up again, while he was doing the dishes. And by then the level of frustrated mood had gone up another notch... .

He thought he had made arrangements to see a friend for a beer in the evening, but evening had come and his friend had not returned his call and could not be reached... . He was ranting about rude he thought that was, not that it mattered since he now suddenly hated sitting out drinking beer anyway, (like with phones he has a hang up w alcohol since that too can give him headaches, so he can't drink much, since he can't take even the slightest hint of hangover-feelings... . ). I thought to myself about all the times he has not returned my calls or responded to my texts and so on, but decided now was not a time to bring that up... .

Instead I tried to find a way to perk him up and started talking about fun stuff he and I could do when he came... . Turned out to be not a good move either... .

That turned on the record of how he did not want to think about us as a couple and if he were going to come at all, then he wanted me to promise him and give him a guarantee that there would be no physical contact what so ever... . The usual reasons were repeated, wrong address, no long distance relationship, and he was going to start dating other people and had already slept with others while I was not there... .

Something in me just happened then and there... . I usually have managed to just validate, and agree to whatever and slip out of the topic and then things have worked out just fine once we actually met... . (He usually can't hold himself for a minute when we meet... . ).

Not this time... . Instead I said truthfully that I don't think I can do that... . I have the same feelings for you as I have had since the day we met... . And I have never signed up with you for a friendship. Especially not since you seem to think it ok to talk to me about f*ing other women and throwing that in my face... .

I also told him I don't know which one of him to believe? The one who discusses at lengths what kind of car we shall have or how our daily life together shall be, or the one who doesn't like my address and wants to be with other women?

It is just too confusing for me... .

I also said that before when you have said you wanted to be with other women, later you have told me you haven't and I am all you think about all the time, everyday?

He then replied he has a ___-buddy in the town where his father lives, (just as far away as I am btw), that he sees sometimes... .

And then I just felt I couldn't take it anymore... .

I am not sure he is actually doing some other woman or women... . It might be just talk... . But regardless... . Now he said that he couldn't take getting overwhelmed by feelings for me knowing it would end... . (Which I pretty much have learned is the swan-song of most BPD's when things start to get to real for them... . ).

There just ain't much I can do about that... .

So I just said, well then I guess there is not much more to say... .

He said he thought we shouldn't meet until this was resolved, that is until I would agree to continue seeing him with no physical contact. And then he asked me if we should talk the morning after as usual... . And I replied - what's the point... . My feelings are not negotiable... . I don't want to be friends with you, I want more than that.

And if that is not what you want, then what more is there to say... .

Then he started ranting about what a fantastic person I was and how he still wanted me in his life, as a friend... . How much he likes our talks over the phone, (that is when I perk him up in the morning and makes it easier for him to get through his workday... . ). When I didn't reciprocate he went on saying ___ stuff like how we were so different, it would never work out, how he now thinks he needs a partner who shares his work-out frenzy, and lives in the right place... . Suddenly he is not going to move, which has been what he wanted ever since we met, since he hates his job, has not many friends there and doesn't like his apartment... . But now it is all he wants... .

In the end he "told" me we could talk in a couple of days, "if I need to talk", as he said... . And I just said... . What about? And then we hung up... . No hugs or kisses, just a plain bye... .

The morning after I saw he had checked in on my side on the community site we are both members of... . But he wrote nothing, and later he was online at the same time as me. Then he went NC.

Last night my feelings caught up with me, and I felt sad and weak, so I wrote him a text stating only; miss U, but he has not replied... . He wan not home at all last night, (he is usually always connected to the community site, when at home, which is how I know... . ) I could see that he had logged on briefly again today... . But no reply to my text... .

I believe he has fled town and gone to his fathers place where also his ___-buddy is conveniently around... .

So my guess is this is it... .

Right now i just feel like the girl with the wrong address... .

I don't know what to do now... . ? Should I try to contact him again... . Try to get to see him just to get the chance to talk eye to eye... . ? Or should I just cut my losses and bail while I can and before I get any more enmeshed in this?

I miss him immensely... . And I guess he doesn't see this exactly the way I do... . He may have pushed it here, but my guess is this is not the outcome he really wanted... . Or maybe it is, since it gives him control.

I just can't help but wonder why he ever started this whole thing if the distance was going to be such a make or break thing for him?

In the beginning, even before we actually met, and only spoke online, I asked him about the distance, and he kept saying that he not only came from the city where I live, but wanted nothing more than to be able to go back there and live there again... .

Now it is like he can consider living anywhere but here... . I just don't get it... . Which again brings you right back to ground zero again - since there just is no logic to this disorder... .

sigh... .